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**Mat Ryer:** Yeah. That would be a very different Terminator. I don't think Terminator was written using test-driven development... Otherwise it may be a little more out there |
**Christian Haas:** Well, he shoots first, and I know he asked first "Have you seen John Conner" and then shoots |
**Mat Ryer:** That's true, yeah. |
**Christian Haas:** So there's still a question before it. Yet it's way beyond what we are discussing here on our table here... |
**Mat Ryer:** You're talking about then testing in Go, and specifically about the assertions; are you talking about the code structure, and things like that? |
**Christian Haas:** Essentially, the code structure, almost... The question was "Do we manually assert?" Like, in an if my got values equals the want value compared to do it right in assert library, whatever is A B and or Testify, or any other of the assertion libraries that are out there. |
**Mat Ryer:** \[18:09\] Yeah, that's interesting. I mean, at one time Testify as a cert package was the most imported package in Go... And when we made it, we kind of were used to writing tests like that, and we just found the three lines to be verbose and repetitive, because you still wanna print out what the values a... |
**Christian Haas:** That's the trade-off. And the question, or at least the curiosity that came now to this question was "What are the reasons that people would still choose such an assertion library?" Because it can go back and forth. Yes, you have just laid out the reasons - you want to have it readable, some say the... |
**Mat Ryer:** Yeah. And Testify has, of course, the Require sister package, which is where it aborts early... |
**Christian Haas:** That's right. |
**Mat Ryer:** That's also a choice that people make. Some people prefer assert where you can just keep going and make lots of other assertions... |
**Christian Haas:** Correct. |
**Mat Ryer:** ...and other people like to just have one failing thing at a time. |
**Christian Haas:** Right. So this is then the question "Do you want a checker on properties as a whole, as a group we have the property that I'm going to test consists of several smaller things that I would not expect, or do we want to require this particular thing not to be nil because if I would continue then it wou... |
**Mat Ryer:** Yeah, right. Exactly. And when we designed is, it actually returns booleans, so that you can write them inside if statements. You can say like "If this is not nil, basically, then..." And then that will fail if it is, but otherwise it returns true and you carry on into that block, and stuff. But yeah, I q... |
**Christian Haas:** Right, right. This helps in test-driven development as it is. Then again, the question is "Do we want to immediately break up because you want to stop?" And I've heard people saying "Well, if this one fails already, we will be pretty sure anyway what the problem is", and then you can skip the next r... |
**Mat Ryer:** Yeah. Very cool. Well, I'll come back and chat here after you've had the conversation and get your sense of what people think. I'd be interested. |
**Christian Haas:** Yeah, more and more people are coming in for this - not roundtable, but rather rectangular table discussion... But yeah, all good here. |
**Mat Ryer:** Yeah. Good. I like the pedantry. |
**Christian Haas:** Thank you. Thank you, Mat. |
**Mat Ryer:** Thank you! |
**Christian Haas:** This was Mat Ryer, with Christian... \[laughter\] See you around. |
**Mat Ryer:** Christian Haas, thank you. |
**Christian Haas:** Alright, thank you. |
**Jingle:** \[21:11\] |
**Mat Ryer:** Oh no, I can't believe it... Bill Kennedy is here. Hi, Bill... |
**Bill Kennedy:** What?! I can't believe it. Mat Ryer is here. |
**Mat Ryer:** \[laughs\] So you're doing a roundtable on educating gophers... And you've been doing that for a long time now, haven't you? |
**Bill Kennedy:** On the Go side, since 2014... Yeah... |
**Mat Ryer:** Yeah, wow. That's the first GopherCon. |
**Bill Kennedy:** Yes. I got to even speak at the first GopherCon, which was pretty cool. |
**Mat Ryer:** Yeah, I remember it. |
**Bill Kennedy:** That's because nobody knew me yet, and they needed speakers, and I was dumb enough to say "Sure..." Which was actually the first conference I ever talked at. |
**Mat Ryer:** Was it? |
**Bill Kennedy:** Yeah. |
**Mat Ryer:** Oh, wow. |
**Bill Kennedy:** 800 people. It was with the Go team, if you remember, all sitting there. |
**Mat Ryer:** Yeah, yeah. |
**Bill Kennedy:** Yeah, that was a little nerve-wracking. |
**Mat Ryer:** Is it on YouTube still? |
**Bill Kennedy:** I imagine Brian and Erik still have that website... That's interesting, because I've never looked at the -- I did a cool little video with the Gopher in Walmar-- shopping stuff, and I've played that first, and everybody laughed... |
**Mat Ryer:** \[22:12\] Yes, I remember it. |
**Bill Kennedy:** I've gotta find that video. I don't think I have the video itself anymore, but it will be part of the talk somewhere. |
**Mat Ryer:** I must have that somewhere. Yeah, because I just randomly lived in Denver, and was getting into Go, and then the conference was just down the street from where I lived, just completely randomly. So I was at the first GopherCon in 2014. |
**Bill Kennedy:** You were living in Denver? |
**Mat Ryer:** Yeah, yeah, I lived in Denver. |
**Bill Kennedy:** I didn't even know that. |
**Mat Ryer:** Yeah, yeah. |
**Bill Kennedy:** But you were coding in Go before you walked in there, or you were just like -- |
**Mat Ryer:** No, we'd built Testify before that conference. |
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