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**Ale Kennedy:** Yes, it was a lengthy tour... But I'm gonna tell you, being from Miami, the weather was perfect for a walk. |
**Mat Ryer:** Oh, really? |
**Ale Kennedy:** I wasn't hot at all, I didn't get tired... It was wonderful. We saw so many places... Victoria was the one leading the tour; it was amazing. She knew so much about it. It was really like the insiders' tour, or something like that. |
**Mat Ryer:** Oh, nice. |
**Ale Kennedy:** I didn't feel like a tourist. I felt like I was walking with a friend, and she just was showing me around. It was very nice. |
**Mat Ryer:** That sounds great, yeah. So what was your favorite place you've visited? |
**Ale Kennedy:** Um, I would have to say that -- I don't know if it's my favorite, but the most impressive one for me was the Holocaust Memorial that was created for Peter Eisenman. It's very impressive, it's overwhelming, beautiful... So many feelings at the same time that one place can bring. |
**Mat Ryer:** Yeah... |
**Ale Kennedy:** There's nothing I can tell you that would reflect the same thing, because you would be standing in the same place and you would tell me a whole different story. I think that's the beauty of that place. |
**Mat Ryer:** Wow. And the city is so beautiful as well, isn't it? |
**Ale Kennedy:** The city is really beautiful. Today I was talking to my daughter, she's somewhere in Cambridge and whatnot, and I was telling her, if Berlin was a person, it would be a cool, old, tattooed dude. That would be Berlin, if he was a man. |
**Mat Ryer:** It's like tattooed, isn't it? The whole city. |
**Ale Kennedy:** Yeah, it's like the whole city is wearing whole sleeves of tattoos, and it gives it character. I guess the mom in me gets annoyed, because I see beautiful buildings with writings, and then I have to get over that, and then see it for what it really is. There's a lot of people voicing things, and that's... |
**Mat Ryer:** One of the nice things about GopherCon EU is that it moves around as well. So we had one in Iceland, we had one in Tenerife, and now Berlin... So it's great, you get to visit these places that you would otherwise maybe not go to. |
**Ale Kennedy:** That is amazing. You have a different take on it, because usually the organizers give you a little bit of an insight of wherever it is that you are. They kind of like curate the experience for anybody that goes. |
**Mat Ryer:** Yeah. Great. Well, I hope you enjoy the rest of the time, and I look forward to hosting with you. |
**Ale Kennedy:** Will do, thank you so much. |
**Mat Ryer:** It's gonna be fun. |
**Ale Kennedy:** Alright! I'll see you on Saturday. Thank you. |
**Mat Ryer:** Yeah, see you then. Thank you. |
**Ale Kennedy:** Bye! |
**Jingle:** \[12:45\] |
**Mat Ryer:** I've just tracked down Ole Bulbuk. Ole, hello. |
**Ole Bulbuk:** Hi, Mat. Nice to meet you. |
**Mat Ryer:** Nice to see you again. You're doing a table at the Contributors Summit on long-term maintenance. What is that? I only do quick projects and then leave it for someone else to worry about... What is long-term maintenance? |
**Ole Bulbuk:** Yeah... \[laughs\] That's when you come like three years after a few guys have been working on it, and then find a total mess, and think "Oh dang, now I have to take care of it..." |
**Mat Ryer:** \[laughs\] Yeah. Do you think Go has a kind of particular advantage when it comes to long-term maintenance and legacy code |
**Ole Bulbuk:** I think it has quite some advantages. There is often only one way to do something in Go, so there's only one way to mess it up usually, too. That's great. And it has been done with scalability in mind; that's absolutely fantastic. |
**Mat Ryer:** Yeah. |
**Ole Bulbuk:** For example, no circular dependencies between packages, which in the long run is really great, even if it hurts sometimes in the short run... And yeah, I think it's a rather pragmatic and simplistic way to work with code, that you say "Simple is better", and so on. This is really great and helpful. |
**Mat Ryer:** \[14:15\] Yeah. It pays dividends over time especially, doesn't it? I know what you mean. And what about the backwards-compatibility promise? That must be a big part of this, too. |
**Ole Bulbuk:** Yeah, of course. If you have a language that evolves really quickly, every year an incompatible version - well, then you either stick with a very old version, that has security problems after a while, or you are constantly evolving the whole thing, and always -- or you are still doing it like two weeks ... |
**Mat Ryer:** Yeah... We're not naming any names. Swift \*cough-cough\* |
**Ole Bulbuk:** Yeah... Or JavaScript, or so... But yeah. And this is really nice, of course, for Go, that you can count on it and build something solid, and maintain it without a whole team working on a rather little codebase all the time... And you can do it just as a side project when there is not much functionality... |
**Mat Ryer:** Yeah, that's a really good point. Well, enjoy the conference, and I'll catch up with you later. |
**Ole Bulbuk:** Thank you! |
**Jingle:** \[15:31\] |
**Break:** \[15:46\] |
**Mat Ryer:** I'm here with Christen -- Christian... Oh, okay, let me say that again... |
**Christian Haas:** Can I say who I am? |
**Mat Ryer:** Yeah, yeah... Can you pronounce it okay? |
**Christian Haas:** Yes, I hope so... |
**Mat Ryer:** Okay. |
**Christian Haas:** So Mat is here with Christian Haas... |
**Mat Ryer:** Thank you. \[laughter\] Christian, you're doing a table discussion about -- it's called "How to assert", right? |
**Christian Haas:** Yeah. It's called "How to assert", because I was given to have it a name with only three words. And I also realized it should have been better called "How to assert in tests." |
**Mat Ryer:** Ah, right. |
**Christian Haas:** So \[unintelligible 00:17:12.07\] It came out of a Twitter discussion. |
**Mat Ryer:** Oh, yeah. You could have also had "Assert yourself, baby." |
**Christian Haas:** It could have been, yes, and a totally different discussion would have come out of it. |
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