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2022-Go-Time-Transcripts

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[1361.48 --> 1365.40] And at the heart of it all, incident runbooks, they let you create custom automation rules,
[1365.64 --> 1370.86] convert manual tasks into automated, reliable, repeatable sequences that run when you want.
[1371.22 --> 1375.24] You can create Slack channels, Jira tickets, Zoom bridges instantly after declaring an incident.
[1375.74 --> 1378.32] Now your processes can be consistent and automatic.
[1378.32 --> 1380.46] The next step is to try it free.
[1380.60 --> 1384.96] Small teams, up to 10 people, can get started for free with all FireHydrant features included.
[1385.30 --> 1386.70] No credit card is required.
[1387.16 --> 1389.30] Get started at firehydrant.io.
[1389.68 --> 1391.62] Again, firehydrant.io.
[1391.62 --> 1406.90] I love that advice of pay attention to the value you're going to get from the effort that you put in.
[1407.34 --> 1409.20] When I, I like mono repos.
[1409.34 --> 1410.76] I just like to put that out there.
[1410.82 --> 1411.70] I love mono repos.
[1411.70 --> 1417.60] And the reason I like them is because you can have a pull request that has a unit test, some back-end code,
[1417.72 --> 1423.36] maybe some API changes, front-end code in there too, hopefully with some front-end tests maybe.
[1423.74 --> 1427.26] And it's nice that that all gets applied to the system in one go.
[1427.60 --> 1432.08] Does that also apply to like this sort of field or the instrumentation of that?
[1432.20 --> 1438.20] Should we be having those kinds of conversations at that point so that we kind of think about it as we go?
[1438.20 --> 1442.96] I would love to say yes, but I've not seen a team do it really well.
[1443.22 --> 1450.84] So I can see the challenges of like when you have this mono repo and everyone's contributing to the same central repository,
[1451.22 --> 1458.54] there is a challenge that the parameters that you would think about for your product and your monitoring systems
[1458.54 --> 1462.00] might be different to what another team would be looking at.
[1462.00 --> 1469.38] So there is a challenge with how do you then look at this as a product that we sell to customers?
[1469.72 --> 1475.14] Like you have to think about capability monitoring maybe rather than your individual product monitoring
[1475.14 --> 1479.52] where you're thinking about what is the capability that I'm providing to the customer?
[1480.18 --> 1484.14] And those should probably be things that we have at a central level.
[1484.28 --> 1487.24] And we do it as in when we add new features,
[1487.24 --> 1491.34] we make sure we don't break the monitoring that we've got across the capability.
[1491.34 --> 1497.80] But on a single individual product team's perspective, yeah, I don't know how much value it would add.
[1497.90 --> 1499.12] So it depends on that, I guess.
[1499.40 --> 1500.76] So yeah, I'm sure.
[1501.14 --> 1504.26] Have you seen it work in your teams or something?
[1504.90 --> 1509.30] Well, we have at least the conversation when there's a PR for like a big feature,
[1509.92 --> 1514.56] we will chat about it and say like, what do we need?
[1514.64 --> 1515.64] What do we need from this?
[1515.64 --> 1519.18] It's like, what's going on here that later we're going to need?
[1519.38 --> 1521.56] And it's that thing about becoming your future selves.
[1522.20 --> 1527.12] So yeah, but I don't know that we've got that right yet or anything, you know,
[1527.20 --> 1531.54] because in a way we don't really know what's important upfront necessarily.
[1531.82 --> 1534.32] So it's, you know, but sometimes you do.
[1534.38 --> 1538.64] And I like that there are guidelines that we can follow to give us a good foundation.
[1538.64 --> 1541.96] And then, of course, we're going to have to fine tune it depending on our particular case.
[1542.36 --> 1542.70] I agree.
[1543.02 --> 1543.18] Yeah.
[1543.92 --> 1547.44] All this, to me, starts to distill down into, right?
[1547.50 --> 1551.66] Like it's some amount of like, if you are doing the centralized monitoring, right?
[1551.66 --> 1553.06] Or there's a level of that, right?
[1553.10 --> 1557.72] And then you have to communicate this down to these teams and you have to get them to buy in, right?
[1558.56 --> 1559.88] You know, what do you do that?
[1559.96 --> 1562.58] Or even how would you suggest someone else do that well?
[1562.58 --> 1570.34] So central teams pushing things is like, irrespective of it being monitoring or anything in general is really hard.
[1570.84 --> 1579.58] And it should always be driven by, like what I've seen work really well is the ones that are driven by like value add to the individual teams itself.
[1580.14 --> 1590.14] So as an example, when we were building this Amazon Linux, like a base plate image that everyone could apply and they can run their own EC2 instances.
[1590.14 --> 1599.66] When they had this, what we said we will do as part of it is we said you're going to get monitoring to like, I think we were pushing logs to Splunk in that case.
[1599.74 --> 1601.72] So you would get that feature for free.
[1601.86 --> 1603.60] You would get authentication for free.
[1603.76 --> 1610.74] You would get like, have those kind of things that you will get for free as part of whatever features that you would give.
[1610.96 --> 1616.34] And that has often been a nice way to drive teams to be like, oh, yes, I like that.
[1616.52 --> 1617.32] And I will do it.
[1617.48 --> 1617.52] Right.
[1617.52 --> 1621.68] Make it so easy that they can't, like they would rather adopt it rather than try and do it themselves.
[1621.94 --> 1622.78] Yeah, exactly.
[1622.98 --> 1632.98] So like another example that came to mind was we had this central repository for like a CRM system, which we had to enter all of our system information.
[1632.98 --> 1642.88] And basically it was like a, because we had so many microservices, we had like a central system where we could go and query for any particular system with something called as a system code.
[1643.08 --> 1649.46] And we would know if that system was live, was active, who was working on it, all of those information.
[1649.46 --> 1660.58] And what we did when we built this was we said, if you put the right information in this, then you would automatically have a dashboard that would show up only your teams monitoring in it.
[1660.74 --> 1666.56] That was like an incentive for teams to be like, oh, if I did this, then I get my own dashboard.
[1666.76 --> 1667.30] Let me do that.
[1667.30 --> 1673.82] So I think it's that showing intensive value beyond just what you want them to achieve out of it.
[1673.94 --> 1676.64] That's how I've seen it work really well in teams.
[1676.94 --> 1683.70] So yeah, you need to have some sort of courage to actually get people to move towards your solutions and stuff.
[1683.92 --> 1684.02] Yeah.
[1684.20 --> 1684.40] Yeah.
[1684.40 --> 1684.44] Yeah.
[1685.06 --> 1685.34] Yeah.
[1685.34 --> 1685.82] That's great.
[1685.92 --> 1687.94] I think that applies to everything.
[1690.02 --> 1690.42] Yeah.
[1690.48 --> 1693.56] If you make it easy and it's sort of a no brainer.
[1693.56 --> 1705.72] And like one example of that is where we can, like, if we've got APIs, we can just instrument on those, on the endpoints very easily in a simple way, usually with some middleware or something in the code.
[1705.88 --> 1708.02] And there's lots of packages that do this.
[1708.32 --> 1714.28] So I do quite like, yeah, I think, and I think there's probably space for more things like that.
[1715.02 --> 1717.28] More of that for devs.
[1717.48 --> 1718.04] Yeah.
[1718.18 --> 1730.16] And I think it's the, like, I would really, like, want to see central teams be more mindful about this because as a central team, you're building these amazing tools.
[1730.76 --> 1737.66] And at the end of it, like, you kind of think, oh, if I put a documentation together and self-service, everyone's going to come and use it.
[1737.66 --> 1748.26] But then each individual product teams have their own little agendas to work towards and their own, like, the product initiatives to their own OKRs, all of those things.
[1748.26 --> 1761.72] So this is like an extra bit of, like, cognitive load onto those teams, which they can avoid if you were to do a lot more promotion within teams saying, if you did this, you would get a lot of benefits.
[1761.72 --> 1765.72] And it will take some of the risks that you have taken on yourself.
[1765.94 --> 1769.84] And also it's that education piece of you care about your product.
[1770.04 --> 1772.08] We will help you care about your product.
[1772.20 --> 1774.06] That's something to think about.
[1774.06 --> 1775.24] Yeah.
[1776.96 --> 1783.84] So what are some common mistakes that we make when we're trying to do this with the best intentions in the world?
[1783.96 --> 1792.18] We want to do this properly, but are there any things you see that people misunderstand or common mistakes, common gotchas that you've seen?
[1792.78 --> 1803.16] I think it's knowing how much is enough is, like, one of the things that I've often seen where there are teams who just put the basic thing available because it's there in a checklist somewhere.
[1803.16 --> 1807.30] And then they move on, which is probably not the best for your product.
[1807.30 --> 1817.56] So it's being aware of the value of your product and, like, what is the life cycle that your product or the journey that your product is going on?
[1817.66 --> 1819.30] That is probably one of the things.
[1819.64 --> 1828.08] The other thing that I have seen and I've struggled a lot with is, like I mentioned about this use method and red method to actually build your dashboards.