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[2192.70 --> 2198.02] Sometimes helps them understand, oh, this is how I would go about solving this, looking at those people. |
[2198.02 --> 2203.58] So, yeah, I think it's, it's a mixture of drills and a shadowing maybe that could work in teams. |
[2204.06 --> 2207.94] I even think yesterday, and I realized why I'm all fired up about this. |
[2208.14 --> 2209.10] I parsed through it. |
[2210.02 --> 2216.36] Yesterday we did, I visited the sales team and they were doing these workshops and they were doing radical candor, right? |
[2216.36 --> 2221.40] Which is like all about like feedback and giving feedback and getting feedback and, and being able to, to do it well. |
[2221.40 --> 2224.06] And then you break out and you're like, okay, yeah, check, check, check. |
[2224.12 --> 2224.42] I get it. |
[2224.42 --> 2224.78] I get it. |
[2224.84 --> 2225.10] I get it. |
[2225.12 --> 2226.06] Like I could totally do that. |
[2226.22 --> 2229.88] And then you break out into these triads and then you practice it, right? |
[2229.92 --> 2233.16] And there's a part of you that goes like, oh, I don't, I don't need to do this. |
[2233.16 --> 2233.92] Like I get it. |
[2233.92 --> 2234.52] I get the concepts. |
[2234.58 --> 2242.16] And then you try and do it and you're like, and you kind of feel yourself like places that, you know, are a little bit creaky or, you know, maybe you don't quite get it as much. |
[2242.16 --> 2246.30] So I think, I think it's actually where I'm fired up to where, even if it is artificial, right? |
[2246.34 --> 2253.08] Some of those, some of those joints might be, you know, either rusty or creaky or, or don't articulate well until, and you don't realize that until you do it. |
[2253.36 --> 2255.34] I think that was a rubbish point. |
[2256.32 --> 2257.50] We can cut that. |
[2257.64 --> 2258.28] Cut, cut, cut. |
[2259.22 --> 2264.82] I think it's also like a good exercise to do just to test your like documentation and stuff. |
[2264.82 --> 2276.28] And like, if it's, if your documentation is up to scratch and like, when you've written something you've written with, with good intent, but when someone's actually following it, does it make sense? |
[2276.28 --> 2279.52] Is something that the drills can actually capture and stuff. |
[2279.80 --> 2283.14] So yeah, there's more than one benefit of having drills. |
[2288.50 --> 2291.34] This episode is brought to you by Honeycomb. |
[2291.50 --> 2293.28] Find your most perplexing application issues. |
[2293.28 --> 2301.06] Honeycomb is a fast analysis tool that reveals the truth about every aspect of your application in production. |
[2301.52 --> 2305.52] Find out how users experience your code in complex and unpredictable environments. |
[2305.80 --> 2310.72] Find patterns and outliers across billions of rows of data and definitively solve your problems. |
[2311.16 --> 2312.64] And we use Honeycomb here at Change. |
[2312.68 --> 2316.50] Well, that's why we welcome the opportunity to add them as one of our infrastructure partners. |
[2316.50 --> 2324.34] In particular, we use Honeycomb to track down CDN issues recently, which we talked about at length on the Kaizen edition of the Ship It podcast. |
[2324.58 --> 2325.28] So check that out. |
[2325.50 --> 2325.98] Here's the thing. |
[2326.22 --> 2329.48] Teams who don't use Honeycomb are forced to find the needle in the haystack. |
[2329.60 --> 2332.76] They scroll through endless dashboards playing whack-a-mole. |
[2332.98 --> 2336.02] They deal with alert floods, trying to guess which one matters. |
[2336.02 --> 2341.62] And they go from tool to tool to tool playing sleuth, trying to figure out how all the puzzle pieces fit together. |
[2342.02 --> 2348.28] It's this context switching and tool sprawl that are slowly killing teams' effectiveness and ultimately hindering their business. |
[2348.68 --> 2355.44] With Honeycomb, you get a fast, unified, and clear understanding of the one thing driving your business. |
[2355.70 --> 2356.12] Production. |
[2356.66 --> 2359.10] With Honeycomb, you guess less and you know more. |
[2359.10 --> 2364.70] Join the swarm and try Honeycomb free today at honeycomb.io slash changelog. |
[2364.86 --> 2368.34] Again, honeycomb.io slash changelog. |
[2368.78 --> 2375.30] And by Acuity, a new platform that brings fully managed Argo CD and enterprise services to the cloud or on-premise. |
[2375.62 --> 2380.48] The platform is a versatile Kubernetes operator for handling cluster deployments the GitOps way. |
[2380.80 --> 2384.32] And I'm here with Kelsey Hightower, angel investor and advisor to Acuity. |
[2384.82 --> 2388.54] Kelsey, why are you excited about Argo CD and what's happening here with Acuity? |
[2388.54 --> 2395.62] When I think about Argo CD, it represents the transition from traditional CICD. |
[2395.78 --> 2399.82] You know, you have a big server with a built-in workflow engine. |
[2400.28 --> 2406.36] And you can only do what that system can do, whether it's Jenkins, whether it's Spinnaker, you name it. |
[2406.62 --> 2408.76] Those things tend to be all-in solutions. |
[2409.08 --> 2414.78] And they're all predicated on having like their own built-in workflows, UIs, and ways of doing things. |
[2414.78 --> 2427.06] And then when I think about kind of the Argo CD, that whole open source movement kind of backed by the ideas we saw in the Kubernetes world, which was each of those steps is nothing more than just a step in a workflow. |
[2427.36 --> 2431.54] And after 10, 20 years of doing CICD, how best to represent those steps? |
[2431.54 --> 2439.54] And it turns out this whole container thing is probably the best way to have little snippets of logic sit at each of those steps in the workflow. |
[2439.54 --> 2443.46] And then you can kind of exchange them and share them to build any pipeline you want. |
[2443.72 --> 2447.98] So the way to look at this is Kubernetes has never had a workflow engine or tool. |
[2447.98 --> 2457.94] And so when you think about kind of Argo workflow or Argo CD, which is kind of a specialized workflow, kind of attacking the how do you roll out software problem, that's the way I would think about it. |
[2457.98 --> 2463.82] So if you're all in on Kube and you like the Kubernetes ecosystem, then you kind of have a choice of workload types. |
[2463.96 --> 2467.18] And I would probably just say it's another workload type you can put in your toolbox. |
[2467.18 --> 2474.58] So if you've got something that can benefit from a workflow engine and reuse the logic that you already have in containers, it kind of feels like the perfect fit. |
[2475.00 --> 2475.56] The perfect fit. |
[2475.64 --> 2475.92] All right. |
[2475.98 --> 2476.46] Thanks, Kelsey. |
[2476.46 --> 2480.60] Well, the next step is to head to Acuity.io slash changelog. |
[2480.68 --> 2483.30] They are inviting all of our listeners to join the closed beta. |
[2483.84 --> 2486.32] Again, Acuity.io slash changelog. |
[2486.46 --> 2487.94] Links are in the show notes. |
[2499.38 --> 2506.24] Niana, you mentioned earlier, like this idea that, you know, if you do too much, you can overdo it. |
[2506.24 --> 2510.14] And end up with basically alert fatigue, just alerts going off. |
[2510.20 --> 2512.26] What do we mean really by alert fatigue? |
[2512.46 --> 2515.18] I'm going to give an example so people can relate to it. |
[2515.18 --> 2522.22] I was in one of the teams where we used to get close to 1500 alerts on a weekly basis. |
[2522.22 --> 2528.44] And this was like we had around 80 odd microservices. |
[2528.44 --> 2530.62] So it wasn't like just one microservice or anything. |
[2531.12 --> 2534.30] But then my team was like three people looking at this. |
[2534.78 --> 2543.58] And it's at that point which you realize that are they actually looking at this thing or is it all just being ignored as like just noise? |
[2543.58 --> 2544.72] Let's just ignore it. |
[2544.86 --> 2553.20] And I think it's that point where you start ignoring your alerts is where you've gone to that stage where you can't take any more alerts. |
[2553.32 --> 2555.92] So you're fatigued with the whole alerting itself. |
[2555.92 --> 2565.32] And I think it's better to have less alerts for the most important things rather than have too many and try to just like filter it out. |
[2565.46 --> 2575.14] One of the exercises we did when we had these alert fatigues and like thousand odd alerts is we consciously stopped some of the alerts to see who will start shouting. |
[2575.14 --> 2581.30] And it happened that more than 50% of these alerts when we turned off, no one actually shouted at us. |
[2581.38 --> 2583.32] So it was like, was that even important? |
[2583.68 --> 2593.44] Going through that exercise on a regular basis where you see if you're ignoring more than at least 10% of your alerts, then go and do something about it. |
[2593.64 --> 2595.74] Maybe turn them off and no one will care. |
[2595.74 --> 2610.20] And I think teams need to be conscious that it's okay to miss a faulty alert compared to missing out on a real alert, which would have cost us like millions of pounds or whatever it is. |
[2610.40 --> 2622.94] So I think it's being careful to put the right alerts in and stopping at that and not just going overboard with, oh, let's take an example that we have Grafana in our systems and we have alerting with Grafana. |
[2622.94 --> 2630.60] I have this tool so I can put as many alerts as possible, not going wild with it, but actually like knowing where to stop. |
[2630.84 --> 2633.30] That's how I would describe this whole alert fatigue. |
[2633.52 --> 2636.20] And it's with time, it does happen with teams. |
[2636.20 --> 2644.50] So it's worth going back and auditing them and making sure you keep them clean as much as possible. |
[2645.44 --> 2650.26] I wonder if you could do a, like what would be like the equivalent of a bug bounty for alerts? |
[2650.26 --> 2655.76] Like how do you incent people to go and clean those up and celebrate being like, they're gone? |
[2656.24 --> 2657.32] Oh, that's hard. |
[2657.54 --> 2662.36] What I've done in this is actually gone and turned them off myself and be like, let's see who's going to shout. |
[2663.74 --> 2667.30] And like when no one shouts, you know that they're not important enough. |
[2667.40 --> 2672.10] So that is something that I've done, but I don't know how you would, interesting. |
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