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[4.14 --> 9.78] And as long as it doesn't find the practical place to give you some benefits, it's still a theory.
[10.16 --> 15.24] And when I've learned about IMUDB, that was this moment that you find something that is working,
[15.52 --> 18.28] live database, that you can easily use it.
[18.42 --> 22.12] And it has all this machinery behind it that is doing all these proofs
[22.12 --> 26.26] and is cryptographically verifying everything and keeps everything in place.
[26.26 --> 29.88] So that's something for me that is a great benefit for all of us.
[30.00 --> 36.86] This episode is brought to you by SignalWire.
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[101.66 --> 104.56] Again, go to SignalWire.com slash video.
[105.06 --> 106.22] And remember to mention go time.
[119.68 --> 120.72] Let's do it.
[121.26 --> 122.34] It's go time.
[122.82 --> 124.34] Welcome to go time.
[124.74 --> 128.06] Your source for diverse discussions from around the go community.
[128.06 --> 132.60] Subscribe today at go time.fm and follow the show on Twitter.
[132.82 --> 134.40] We are at go time.fm.
[134.76 --> 139.80] Special thanks to our partners at Fastly for delivering go time super fast all around the world.
[140.10 --> 142.68] Check them out for yourself at fastly.com.
[142.92 --> 144.06] That's all for me.
[144.38 --> 145.12] Here we go.
[145.12 --> 161.56] Welcome, everybody, to this episode of Go Time, where we get to talk about immutable databases.
[161.56 --> 171.96] Now, I must admit, I'm going to be a skeptic during this show because I've been looking for use cases, right?
[171.96 --> 176.62] And the project we're going to be talking about does a very good job of sort of articulating those things.
[177.22 --> 180.68] But I'm still very much old school, if you can call it that, right?
[180.74 --> 184.70] The concept of immutable databases has been something I've ever had to use at work.
[184.76 --> 187.50] So I'm looking to, well, let me take that back.
[187.52 --> 188.44] I'm not going to be a skeptic.
[188.58 --> 192.80] I'm going to approach this with an open mind, and I'm going to approach it as a learner, right?
[192.80 --> 196.66] As a beginner to this space and to this kind of technology, okay?
[196.66 --> 201.14] Joining me today is my co-host, John Calhoun.
[201.32 --> 201.90] Say hi, John.
[202.16 --> 202.52] Hey, Johnny.
[202.64 --> 203.00] How are you?
[203.32 --> 203.94] I'm good.
[204.06 --> 207.78] Man, we haven't been on a podcast together for like a couple months at least.
[207.96 --> 208.80] It's been a little while.
[208.96 --> 209.54] It's been a minute.
[209.66 --> 211.30] Glad to have you with me here today.
[211.64 --> 213.62] Also joining me are two.
[214.18 --> 222.78] I don't know if it's co-founders or core contributors or all of the above, but the two of you work on the Code Notary team.
[222.78 --> 228.66] And I did a quick Google around and see and see that's actually a company that actually has a product that they're selling.
[228.78 --> 229.98] But we're not here to talk about that.
[230.08 --> 236.68] We're here to talk about the open source project that the team is behind called EmuDB, right?
[236.96 --> 241.08] Joining me to talk about this project are the folks who work on it all the time.
[241.34 --> 250.44] I've got Bart Sienczki, who is a software engineer and he's passionate about cryptography and applied math and open source.
[250.44 --> 254.74] And he's been working on sort of EmuDB since last year.
[255.36 --> 257.12] And obviously, he's been using Go to do that.
[257.18 --> 263.16] So we're going to be peeling back that onion to figure out what makes you Go such a good tool for this particular kind of technology.
[263.44 --> 266.66] Also joining Bart is Hiranimo Irazapal.
[267.18 --> 272.12] So Hiranimo also works at the Code Notary on the team that works on EmuDB.
[272.70 --> 276.70] And he's a software engineer, also passionate about cryptography and database.
[276.76 --> 277.66] I'm seeing a theme here.
[277.66 --> 286.16] And also, he's been working on EmuDB actually a little bit longer since the year before, since July 2020, on this particular project.
[286.26 --> 290.50] And I'm also interested in hearing what your journey has been using Go to build these kinds of things.
[290.78 --> 292.60] So welcome, Bart, and welcome, Hiranimo.
[292.92 --> 294.36] Hi, nice to have me here.
[294.58 --> 295.42] Pleasure to be here.
[295.94 --> 296.64] Awesome, awesome.
[296.64 --> 303.50] So, first of all, I think our audience, not everybody is going to be familiar with the concept, right?
[303.56 --> 309.06] We all sort of share a common understanding for application developers, you know, writing business applications and whatnot.
[309.52 --> 313.08] We all have a pretty common understanding of your database, right?
[313.08 --> 315.46] You write things in and you update records.
[315.66 --> 317.56] And when you need to, you delete things.
[317.56 --> 321.82] So it's almost like it's a tool for transactions, right?
[321.82 --> 323.04] You record things in there.
[323.14 --> 325.64] And when something is no longer needed, you delete it.
[325.80 --> 326.94] Sometimes you might need to update it.
[326.98 --> 331.80] But at any given time, the state of the data within the database is shifting, right?
[332.32 --> 336.04] And in comes this concept of an immutable database.
[336.04 --> 339.66] And to which I'm scratching my head, I'm thinking, okay, what is an immutable?
[339.66 --> 342.20] Why would I want my database to be immutable?
[342.42 --> 344.26] So please, let's start with you, Bart.
[344.42 --> 347.74] Why don't you tell me what an immutable database is?
[348.40 --> 353.44] Yeah, so when you have some information and you put them inside your database,
[354.20 --> 357.56] usually we tend to think that this is some kind of temporal state.
[357.66 --> 360.10] We can change this, alter this after some time.
[360.34 --> 364.64] But what if actually there is some information that you don't want to change?
[365.22 --> 367.54] And that's where the immutability comes into play.
[367.54 --> 371.78] So maybe there are some informations like critical things,
[371.96 --> 374.00] like maybe transactions on your account,
[374.26 --> 380.90] or some records that, let's say, you write down the temperature on your room.
[381.10 --> 383.16] This is not going to change in the future.
[383.90 --> 386.92] So that's where the data itself is immutable.
[387.88 --> 392.10] And immutable databases try to work with this kind of information, right?
[392.10 --> 397.72] So with the information that won't be altered or maybe in a different way,
[398.52 --> 399.96] sometimes the data can be altered,