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**Bartlomiej Święcki:** Yeah, so SBOM (software bill of materials) is a term that is used to -- let's say that you create a software, and today you don't write all the software by yourself, you just use external packages... And when we look at, let's say, a Node.js application, it usually has hundreds of different depe... |
\[40:01\] A software bill of materials is basically describing that if we have this binary, or this product, what is it made of? And here we can actually use this immutable ledger, because you just produce those assets, those binaries once, and we can identify them by let's say taking a hash, which is uniquely specifyi... |
There were attacks where -- actually, until now, people may not know that the software that they are running is vulnerable. And this executive order is actually saying that you should have this software bill of materials, so that you can trace this information. |
When we talk about immudb and immutable ledgers, you can also store this information in a secure way, so that if it is persisted and the database has given you the proof, then you can rely on this information; you can rely on the fact that it was not changed. Because maybe there would be an attack that someone goes int... |
**Johnny Boursiquot:** So if we're talking about one of the recent vulnerabilities, in Log4j for example, that made basically the rounds a few weeks ago, if I wanted to find out "Okay, I'm running Java software. Am I running the version of Log4j that was susceptible to that vulnerability? With the bill of materials I c... |
**Bartlomiej Święcki:** Yes, exactly. And actually, that is what is the base for the Codenotary, the company that is building immudb; the base of their financial, it's a base that there is this Codenotary cloud that is using immudb to actually store this information. Because even if you don't have to, if you're not obl... |
Log4j came out a few months ago, and it was a very critical vulnerability, where it could execute a code by just sending, in many cases, some packet to the server. And we know that there will be more vulnerabilities like that in the future, so it's better to right now be prepared and to start creating this software bil... |
**Johnny Boursiquot:** Cool, cool. Very briefly, does running immudb - is that process markedly different from, say, managing your own traditional RDBMS, or your traditional key-value store? All things being equal, do I have to do more or less than I would need to, say, run a Postgres server, or a Redis server, or some... |
**Bartlomiej Święcki:** \[44:01\] Just run a Docker image, or download the binary and run it, and that's it. |
**Johnny Boursiquot:** And then run it. So the beauty of Go, right? |
**Bartlomiej Święcki:** That's the beauty of Go. |
**Johnny Boursiquot:** You've got your executable. |
**Jeronimo Irazabal:** And depending on the amount of data you are dealing with, it will require some operational procedures, like doing a compaction of the index, that there is some already -- this is already implemented in immudb, for instance. But this is for reducing the space that is required for indexing, because... |
And the other is to be aware that you cannot fool the clients that are using immudb. So if you try to revert to another back-up, the clients will complain about that. |
**Break:** \[44:57\] |
**Johnny Boursiquot:** I am interested in obviously understanding why you chose Go for this kind of work... You could have picked a different language. Was there something special about Go that made this kind of work easier to approach? |
**Bartlomiej Święcki:** So when I joined the Codenotary team actually it was already written in Go... |
**Johnny Boursiquot:** Oh. You didn't have a choice. \[laughs\] |
**Bartlomiej Święcki:** But the fact that it was written in Go was very important for me, actually... Because I was watching Go for a very long time. Initially, I didn't have a chance to work with this commercially, in my day-to-day job, but now I see all the benefits that Go gives... Like, having those goroutines - I ... |
So Golang is this sweet spot between the efficiency of programming and still having the performant application in the end. So I think that it is a very good system. We know that Google is using it, because they created it, so it must be battle-tested. It most likely contains this knowledge about large-scale deployments... |
Also, Codenotary is a startup company where efficiency is also very important; testing smarter. We could write, let's say, something faster maybe, a little bit, a few percent, when writing in C++ or even something lower, but then it would take I don't know how many times more time; maybe five, maybe ten even. |
**Johnny Boursiquot:** Cool. What about you, Jeronimo? |
**Jeronimo Irazabal:** \[47:42\] Yeah, exactly. When I joined also immudb was on the initial release... \[laughter\] And it was already written in Go. But we cannot say that we have changed it, made drastic changes. So we didn't change the language, but we could actually because by then we completely wrote from scratch... |
I also like it because the code is easy to read, code readability. I find it very, very easy to read code that is written in Golang. It makes it easier having a standard format for Go. |
**Johnny Boursiquot:** Yeah, you're simply content with it. "Oh yeah, that's hilarious too." That's awesome. |
**Bartlomiej Święcki:** It's good you mentioned the formatting of Golang code, because in C++ there was always a war, which one is better, and what to choose. |
**Johnny Boursiquot:** Yeah, nobody does `go fmt`, but everybody loves `go fmt`, yeah. |
**Bartlomiej Święcki:** Actually, I loved it since the first use, I must say. |
**Johnny Boursiquot:** Jon, you've got one final question before we switch it over to unpopular opinions? |
**Jon Calhoun:** I'm fine with jumping to unpopular opinions. |
**Johnny Boursiquot:** Here we go, it's that time. I hope you brought the goodies, gents... Alright, let's get the tune going. |
**Jingle:** \[49:06\] to \[49:25\] |
**Johnny Boursiquot:** Alright, alright, alright... So let's go with Jeronimo first. What have you got? |
**Jeronimo Irazabal:** Mine is not a technical one, but during the pandemic I started to see that a lot of developers started to upload photos of their working environment all the time; in a garden, on the beach... For me it's impossible. I don't know if it's just me, or those photos are just illustrative, like when yo... |
**Jon Calhoun:** I mean, you've got a whole gym sitting there behind you. \[laughter\] |
**Jeronimo Irazabal:** Actually, this is related to what Bart is going to mention, probably. |
**Johnny Boursiquot:** It's like, "These people are just stuffing their faces..." \[laughs\] |
**Jon Calhoun:** I mean, instead of the gym they just put some flowers and gardens behind them. |
**Johnny Boursiquot:** I know, right? |
**Bartlomiej Święcki:** But once I went outside with my colleagues from a previous job to eat something, and we actually hit some kind of alert and had to act very quickly and we sat somewhere outside... And honestly, the lighting makes it impossible to do anything, to see anything on the laptop. So I kind of agree wit... |
**Jon Calhoun:** I feel like every person is unique in what they can and can't work with... Because some people love co-working spaces, and it's not that I hate them, but I would never wanna go to one every day of the week. For me, I feel like I'd be less productive there, where other people just thrive. And the same w... |
**Johnny Boursiquot:** Somehow they do. So what's your unpopular opinion, Bart? |
**Bartlomiej Święcki:** Mine is also about exercise maybe... Because I think that as IT in general, the mistake that we are doing is that we start limiting ourselves physically. You have a monitor -- so you work mostly with the head and hands. And nothing else. So it's like, the majority of your body is suspended while... |
**Jeronimo Irazabal:** It's a waste of resources. |
**Bartlomiej Święcki:** \[52:15\] Yeah, a waste of resources, and I was thinking - we approach this all in the wrong way. Why don't we, let's say, have big keyboards, where you can punch things, like use your muscles, and maybe it will increase your productivity. Just think about all these genius doctors in our movies ... |
I think we are just limiting ourselves. Why don't we learn things and doing studies like discussing projects during the run, or maybe swimming and solving computations in your head? Maybe this will increase our brain power. |
**Jeronimo Irazabal:** So if I understand you correctly, you are suggesting the outside working environment, but without taking the computer with you. It's like, going to the beach, but without the computer. |
**Johnny Boursiquot:** And running after random strangers. \[laughter\] |
**Jeronimo Irazabal:** You are solving the problem that had was lighting |
**Jon Calhoun:** If I understand it correctly, I assume he's saying that we should explore other ways of doing work that involve our body more, rather than limiting ourselves to sitting at a keyboard. |
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