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**Johnny Boursiquot:** Gotcha. |
**Valery Piashchynski:** Yeah. As for me, it was a lot of challenges to write all of these things... Because basically, RoadRunner, as you can see in the RoadRunner repository, is just an interface. It's just RoadRunner server, RoadRunner workers command, but everything is hidden under the main three parts. Those parts... |
\[36:28\] So in my projects I've never worked with a container, but PHP is everything about containers and everything about dependency injection, and so on, so we have to write such algorithmic containers which mutate based on the configuration. So it's not like "Please give me some dependency." It's about I have a con... |
But the second part is also Goridge. It's a protocol; in Goridge version 1 and version 2 it was, like Anton said, it's a very crazy protocol... I guess 14 bytes - correct me if I'm wrong, Anton... 14 bytes or 18 bytes. |
**Anton Titov:** The first version had a 17 bytes header, for whatever reason. |
**Valery Piashchynski:** 17 bytes, yeah. It's like a few flags, payloads, and \[unintelligible 00:38:27.12\] But imagine the situation, if you pass your payload over the pipes, for example, you don't have any mechanism to CRC or to check "Is this payload correct?", passing it from one side of the wire to another. But R... |
And I guess the third part is the key, which contains all these worker pools... And this is complicating stuff, because you have to -- for example, imagine you have an HTTP plugin enabled. The user wants to get a statistic about the workers. So one approach is to stop the world, stop all the HTTP requests, and get all ... |
\[39:56\] Another approach is to have some shared place where you can safely get at any time, without logs even, this pointer, and to provide to users. But when the restart happens or some issue happens, it will look only in this case. |
So it's like statistics in RoadRunner is basically free for use. It doesn't interrupt the actual request. Not HTTP, not jobs... None of them. |
**Anton Titov:** Yeah. It's quite funny how we jumped into these edge cases, because most of our users are already mature PHP applications, and large, large startups... And they don't play with ten requests. Like, "Okay, we just bump a few millions a day, and we see this bug. So what's this bug about?" Oh, you know wha... |
**Valery Piashchynski:** Yeah. And basically, imagine a situation when you have a completely first scheduler in Golang. I guess you so this ticket recently, about writing completely the first scheduler, bring this to Golang. So we started working with that (I guess) a year before, to provide a completely free scheduler... |
**Johnny Boursiquot:** That's why it's hard to create very nice, user-friendly APIs. There's a lot going on under the hood, but you're making it easy for people to actually use. That's the beauty. |
**Anton Titov:** Well, it can be easier to make just a Hello World endpoint. |
**Valery Piashchynski:** Yes, it's so true. |
**Johnny Boursiquot:** \[laughs\] |
**Anton Titov:** Yeah. Well, we need a load balancer, a Kubernetes cluster, control plane, the other things. That's easy. \[laughter\] |
**Johnny Boursiquot:** I know. Man, things have changed over the last decade or two... |
**Anton Titov:** Yeah. |
**Johnny Boursiquot:** So I do wanna switch gears a little bit here, to understand - like, if someone wanted to contribute, because it sounds like there's still a lot of awesome ideas at play, and coming to the project... If someone wanted to contribute to that, what would basically be a safe expectation of them? Shoul... |
**Valery Piashchynski:** Basically, I don't know PHP at all. I started googling, like, "Okay, Anton, I need some tests script. Could you please write it for me?" \[laughter\] Or I need a for loop to read some variables, so I need to google how to write a for loop in PHP... And this is great, because I don't need to be ... |
**Johnny Boursiquot:** It sounds like there's room for either side. |
**Valery Piashchynski:** Yeah. |
**Anton Titov:** \[44:09\] We're pretty friendly to contributions. In PHP you can help us to improve SDKs, in Golang you can go as deep into the weeds as SSL, which dumps algos to run some crazy stuff. |
**Valery Piashchynski:** Even Python developers can write a protocol version 3, or all Ruby on Rails developers... |
**Anton Titov:** Yeah. If you want to, we'll definitely accept the contributions to make it work for other languages. |
**Break:** \[44:34\] |
**Jingle:** \[45:54\] to \[46:09\] |
**Johnny Boursiquot:** Alright, so let's start with you, Anton. What did you bring? |
**Anton Titov:** You only need 64 kilobytes of RAM. |
**Johnny Boursiquot:** For what. |
**Anton Titov:** Just for everything. |
**Johnny Boursiquot:** Ever? \[laughter\] |
**Valery Piashchynski:** Okay... Prove it. |
**Anton Titov:** For most of this stuff. I would just say, people have to try to work on more memory efficient applications. Because when you work with hardware, 64 kilobytes of memory is a ton. You could make robots move, bring eyes, go on stairs, and do some other stuff. And what can you do with 64 kilobytes of a Jav... |
**Johnny Boursiquot:** Not much. \[laughs\] |
**Valery Piashchynski:** I have 64 gigs and I even can't run a stream. \[laughs\] |
**Johnny Boursiquot:** I mean, I will say that over the years we've gotten more -- well, let me put it nicely. We don't worry very much about CPU and memory and disk... Things that used to be expensive 20-30 years ago. Not so much now. We take these things for granted now. |
**Valery Piashchynski:** Yeah. |
**Anton Titov:** Yeah, but if you know how to pack it down to this level, you can create a lot of scalable applications. Because when you create traffic filtering software, or vpn cores the things which actually -- well, a real IP, let's say, not just API endpoints... That's where you have to optimize it. And knowing t... |
**Johnny Boursiquot:** \[48:13\] \[laughs\] Alright, alright, alright... Valery, what did you bring? |
**Valery Piashchynski:** So my unpopular opinion is open source is hard work. In my opinion it's much harder than some enterprise development... Because I was involved in different enterprise projects, and the flow is pretty much defined. If customer support has some ticket, it can process it, send it to a specialist, ... |
But in open source, a lot of people think that they should not bother themselves to write a proper description of an issue. It's like, "I have a problem. Please fix it." Or one of my favorite issues is like "Nuts?" Well, what does it mean?! |
**Johnny Boursiquot:** Are they offering nuts, or are they asking you if you want nuts? I mean... \[laughs\] |
**Valery Piashchynski:** But when I said, "Please describe what do you want? You want support, or something else?" and closed this ticket, the guys asked me "Why are you so rude? Why did you close my ticket?" And there are a lot of such things in the open source development, so you should handle a lot of things. You ha... |
So if someone sends you a ticket -- I guess some people think that this is a joke, that open source development is a joke for us, or I don't know. So it's like, they write two or three lines of description, or do not provide test cases... So it's very complicated to figure out what do you really want. |
One guy asks me "The Docker doesn't work on my machine." I'm like, "What?!" So I have to fix the Docker on the machine... \[laughter\] You see, in CI, everything brings from the scratch. Docker installs from scratch. Everything works inside Docker. It's something inside your machine. But the guy said "No, it's a proble... |
**Anton Titov:** Yeah. And actually, all of the code you write is public... Because people are going to see it and they're going to blame you. I mean, they're going to blame you anyway, but now they're going to have a reason. |
**Johnny Boursiquot:** Right, exactly. |
**Valery Piashchynski:** Okay, you have a sqrt like N sqrt algorithm or N factorial algorithm. So you shouldn't do it. \[laughs\] |
**Johnny Boursiquot:** Awesome, awesome. Thank you guys so much for coming on the show and talking about really what piqued my curiosity when it showed up on my desk, my virtual desk... You know, PHP in Go, and how these two things complement each other. It's been awesome having you all... And I will now play our outro... |
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