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[3288.70 --> 3288.72] No! |
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[3289.04 --> 3289.08] No! |
[3289.10 --> 3289.28] No! |
[3289.28 --> 3289.32] Oh! |
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[3289.38 --> 3290.22] I know you have enough. |
[3290.56 --> 3293.42] No! |
[3293.42 --> 3299.24] Game on. |
• Introduction of episode topic: Go and PHP working together |
• Backgrounds of guests Anton Titov (CTO) and Valery Piashchynski (software developer) |
• How PHP came to be used by Anton and how he later combined it with Go |
• Valery's introduction to Go through his work at Spiral Scout and combining it with PHP |
• RoadRunner project and its integration of Go and PHP |
• Discussion on the challenges and benefits of using both languages together |
• Traditional application servers vs new approach |
• How PHP became a hard-to-scale language due to its restart-on-every-request model |
• The benefits of RoadRunner's worker pools and zero-overhead approach |
• Target audience: both PHP developers working with Golang and Golang engineers working with PHP |
• RoadRunner as a solution for scalable code without needing to hire specialized engineers |
• RoadRunner configuration allows for selective inclusion of plugins, with HTTP being an example. |
• The tool is designed to manage worker pools and process management, rather than a single process per request. |
• PHP applications can take advantage of RoadRunner's features without significant changes or additional knowledge of other languages. |
• RoadRunner supports multiple programming languages, including Python and Golang, through language-agnostic protocols. |
• Modern PHP frameworks like Spiral and Laravel can simplify development with RoadRunner by managing state and resetting it after each request. |
• Knowledge of Golang is not necessary for basic usage of RoadRunner, but can provide additional capabilities. |
• Challenges faced in creating the RoadRunner model |
• Inter-process communication protocol development |
• Process manager issues with PHP startup and crash handling |
• Race conditions in Golang process management |
• Integrational hell with HTTP, queue, and plugin dependencies |
• Isolation between processes running in the same system |
• Multi-tenancy considerations in application design |
• RoadRunner's design for modern Docker environments or container-based systems |
• Development of RoadRunner with protocols based on IP protocol |
• Discussion of complexities in scheduling jobs inside RoadRunner |
• Importance of hiding complexity for users to specify simple configuration values |
• Contribution process for the project: PHP or Go developers can contribute separately |
• Examples of contributions: improving SDKs, working on SSL algorithms, writing a new protocol version |
• Discussion of memory efficiency and optimization for scalable applications |
• Difficulty of optimizing complex systems like Starlink |
• Challenges of open source development, including: |
+ Lack of proper issue descriptions |
+ Inadequate testing and debugging efforts |
+ Variability in contributor skills and communication styles |
• Comparison between enterprise and open source development workflows |
• The public nature of open source code and its potential for criticism |
**Johnny Boursiquot:** Welcome to this episode of Go Time, everyone, and glad to have you back. So Go and PHP, sitting in a tree... I don't know if there's kissing going on, but we're gonna figure out why Go and PHP are together on this particular episode... Because the last time I touched PHP was many years ago, and a... |
Joining me today are two folks who actually work with Go and PHP on a regular basis, and that got us curious. Someone actually suggested this episode, I believe -- let me look up there. I will find who it was and give him a shout-out for suggesting this episode. |
**Jerod Santo:** Shout-out to listener Seb for requesting this episode and putting RoadRunner and PHP on our radar. Thanks, Seb. |
**Johnny Boursiquot:** And they actually recommended RoadRunner, which is a project we'll definitely be touching on, by name, as an example of Go and PHP working well together. So joining me today are two guests - Mr. Valery, and now I'm gonna butcher your last name... Piashchynski? Did I get that right? Close enough..... |
**Anton Titov:** Yeah, that's correct. |
**Valery Piashchynski:** Nice to meet you! |
**Johnny Boursiquot:** \[04:10\] Okay. So Valery is a software developer at Spiral Scout, the team that works on RoadRunner, this particular project that we'll be touching on. He enjoys working on the algorithms, writing his own operating system for learning purposes in C++, and helping folks get into programming, whic... |
Anton is actually a CTO and co-founder at Spiral Scout, also on the same team that actively works behind RoadRunner. He loves software and hardware. We were just talking before the show about some of the hardware stuff he's working on with Go, rather than going the traditional route of the embedded stuff with C, or Pyt... |
**Valery Piashchynski:** Yeah, thank you. I was saying I do not try to pronounce my surname... \[laughter\] It's rather complicated. But you were almost correct. |
**Johnny Boursiquot:** It's all good, it's all good. |
**Valery Piashchynski:** Yeah, yeah. |
**Johnny Boursiquot:** So Go and PHP. Let's start with what brought you to PHP. Why are you working on PHP this day and age? Not that there's anything wrong with working on PHP this day and age... I'm saying, out of all the languages that one could pick, PHP has been around a long, long time. Back in the infancy of the... |
**Anton Titov:** Well, as you mentioned, it's a very old language. I was young and naive, and I wanted to have my own forum, or my own CMS board. And if you were trying to build a forum back in '05, the only option for you would be PHP. I remember trying to download the source code of the website and trying to figure w... |
**Valery Piashchynski:** Yeah, yeah. Very nice. \[laughs\] So... Surprisingly, I'm not a PHP developer. I'm a Go developer and working on the Go part of an ecosystem. We're trying to connect it into the PHP parts, so Anton for me is like the light at the end of the tunnel, connected to me from the PHP side. |
**Johnny Boursiquot:** Okay. So then you've got the PHP as part of your background, and then here comes along Go. When did you get into it and what led you to actually combining those two things? |
**Anton Titov:** I can probably talk from the kind of combining part... I mean, when I started studying Go, it had been around for a few years, and I only heard good things about it - performant, fast, concurrent, all this kind of terms which now... well... we all know about Golang. Well, I mean, I actually just tried ... |
So it was a very curious language for someone who had been working on this type of a language for a very long time. And that has been an idea - can we actually make them work together? Can we get the benefits of PHP and the benefits of Go and can we improve the developer experience/our own experience? |
**Valery Piashchynski:** \[07:58\] I came to Spiral Scout in 2018 as just a regular developer on one of the projects; a Golang developer. Previously I was programming in .NET, so I was heavily involved into the .NET ecosystem, like C\#. I've got some (I guess) \[unintelligible 00:08:17.23\] something like a C\# profess... |
I was really impressed about the first web server written in Golang. It was so little lines of code, and it brings you to a web server that can respond with just Hello World, but it just works. |
After that, I came into Spiral Scout, I was involved into internal projects, and one time I started to rewrite a test in RoadRunner. It was a mess, because Anton with his php expertise forgot to return errors from the functions. \[laughs\] Like, there are no errors if you don't return them. |
Of course, I fixed it, and it was a lot of errors in the tests... And I sent this PR to an intern, and the intern was like "Oh my God, why did you do this?" \[laughs\] And we're like, "Okay..." We started fixing it, and we finally fixed all of these errors. After that, I was involved into the Golang part of the RoadRun... |
**Anton Titov:** Well, he pretty much rewrote most of the parts of it, but... \[laughter\] That was for the good. |
**Valery Piashchynski:** Yeah, maybe. |
**Johnny Boursiquot:** Obviously, you saw a need and you decided to fill in, and started doing some of the things that you saw that needed to be done... And that's always awesome. That's ho the majority of open source contributions happen - you find something that you enjoy working on, and you contribute code to it, an... |
Obviously, when I think about my experience with PHP, and all the hoops we had to jump through to "make it scale", and using today's terminology and whatnot - when I read the description of the project, I'm like, "Okay, this is a load balancer rolled into some sort of application server, rolled into..." I mean, it's tr... |
**Anton Titov:** It was a very long time ago, yeah. |
**Johnny Boursiquot:** Exactly. I'm dating myself here. But what's the difference between those -- I guess, for a lack of better terminology, those traditional application servers that are designed to run PHP, versus this new approach? |
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