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[882.46 --> 891.96] Like, the reason why right now Kubernetes is like, I don't want to say flagship, but like, you know, the big thing that everyone thinks of with the CNCF is because of its popularity. |
[891.96 --> 894.64] Not because the CNCF is saying everyone use Kubernetes. |
[894.94 --> 906.80] If something else just starts shooting up into the right, we also want to be there to help enable them and make sure that the lessons we learned from Kubernetes just, again, hockey sticking up, can be learned over here. |
[906.88 --> 910.26] So they have an even better experience than, you know, Kubernetes had. |
[910.44 --> 912.10] And, like, it had a lot of growing pains. |
[912.42 --> 915.62] So let's not have another project repeat that. |
[915.62 --> 920.66] Do you all want all open source projects that support CloudNative to be a part of the CNCF? |
[921.04 --> 921.84] Not necessarily. |
[922.34 --> 926.20] Well, that's probably not a good thing to say for, you know, me and my employer. |
[926.32 --> 929.62] But honestly, I think that would not... |
[930.26 --> 935.46] Part of the charter in the CNCF, specifically the TOC, is they are not kingmakers. |
[935.92 --> 944.34] The TOC, the Technical Oversight Committee, which is, like, elected positions, they're the ones that pick which projects get adopted, which projects aren't adopted. |
[944.34 --> 951.54] Like, they dictate who's in the CNCF, and then we, the staff, enable them, help, support, you know, do all that sort of thing. |
[951.78 --> 955.78] So, like, I'm coming at this as my opinion, man. |
[956.76 --> 962.32] Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man. |
[962.58 --> 963.62] Honestly, I tangented. |
[963.80 --> 966.04] Like, I already forgot the original question. |
[966.28 --> 966.50] Right. |
[966.64 --> 968.56] We're all just over here in the Big Lebowski. |
[968.56 --> 969.26] I can ask it again. |
[969.74 --> 970.00] Please. |
[970.32 --> 972.60] I will do Big Lebowski references for the whole podcast. |
[972.60 --> 973.26] That's a problem. |
[973.26 --> 974.84] These guys are trying to joke on me. |
[974.88 --> 975.94] I'm trying to ask the question here. |
[976.54 --> 978.84] We're hoping you forget it so he doesn't have to answer it. |
[980.50 --> 982.78] I'm with you, but I'm just saying, like, he's trying to dodge it. |
[983.04 --> 983.66] Let's keep going. |
[984.00 --> 984.82] I'm just looking at my face. |
[986.36 --> 987.18] Let's try again. |
[987.64 --> 987.82] Sure. |
[987.82 --> 992.00] So, I'm curious if, because it seems like you've got a repeatable way to support projects. |
[992.16 --> 992.40] Yes. |
[992.52 --> 997.86] So, it makes sense that if it's supporting cloud native and it's open source, you'd want it as part of your organization. |
[998.04 --> 998.70] I remember now. |
[998.70 --> 999.00] Yeah. |
[999.36 --> 1005.74] So, there's like, I will go back to, there's like my personal answer and then there's probably the party line. |
[1005.82 --> 1006.90] Can you give us the personal answer? |
[1007.10 --> 1010.82] The personal answer is I don't think that would be healthy for the ecosystem. |
[1011.60 --> 1016.02] Just, again, the tangent of the TOC and the fact that they say there are no kingmakers. |
[1016.56 --> 1017.28] Same thing. |
[1017.28 --> 1025.74] I also think that if all projects were in one foundation, that's probably not healthy for the ecosystem. |
[1026.84 --> 1029.74] Like, cloud native does not mean it is a CNCF project. |
[1029.92 --> 1034.60] There are plenty of other cloud native things that are not in the CNCF. |
[1034.84 --> 1035.08] Right. |
[1035.22 --> 1036.72] Like, there's Nomad. |
[1036.82 --> 1037.74] HashiCorp has Nomad. |
[1037.84 --> 1039.62] That's a container orchestration platform. |
[1039.76 --> 1042.28] There's still a lot of work being put in and around Nomad. |
[1042.28 --> 1048.42] They're an IPO company, though, so it makes sense why Nomad isn't there because that would be troublesome for their business. |
[1048.68 --> 1050.12] But Nomad is an open source project. |
[1050.86 --> 1053.68] There's a weight, though, to being a project in the CNCF. |
[1053.74 --> 1055.18] You have the CNCF landscape, right? |
[1055.28 --> 1055.42] Yep. |
[1055.42 --> 1058.28] So, by nature, you want to communicate what is and isn't. |
[1058.58 --> 1061.58] But at the same time, doesn't that give a weight to a project that is? |
[1062.12 --> 1070.86] Well, landscape is a bad example because the CNCF landscape has projects that aren't CNCF adopted or CNCF. |
[1070.86 --> 1071.26] That's true. |
[1071.46 --> 1071.92] I'll give you that. |
[1072.10 --> 1074.84] So, like, I was actually thinking Nomad might actually be on the landscape. |
[1074.98 --> 1075.50] I haven't looked. |
[1075.84 --> 1077.02] Well, let me give you this example. |
[1077.16 --> 1080.62] So, we've been here for eight hours, ten hours. |
[1082.70 --> 1086.48] I've talked to two people who have said, |
[1087.02 --> 1089.34] Hi, I'm X and I'm with Project Y. |
[1090.28 --> 1091.54] We're in the CNCF. |
[1093.06 --> 1097.58] And it's like there's a clout to that. |
[1098.02 --> 1098.34] Yeah. |
[1098.34 --> 1099.02] Right? |
[1100.06 --> 1106.26] So, aren't the TOC then, I mean, they kind of are kingmakers in that sense, right? |
[1106.38 --> 1110.34] Like, they kind of, because they're the ones who decide who's in and everyone who says that they're in, |
[1110.42 --> 1111.88] now they're, like, cooler than they used to be. |
[1111.88 --> 1113.94] They can leverage the brand equity of the CNCF. |
[1113.94 --> 1114.30] Right. |
[1114.30 --> 1120.68] But in that case, the TOC isn't, like, picking one technology over another, at least with the sandbox. |
[1121.16 --> 1121.40] Okay. |
[1121.44 --> 1130.30] What's usually happening is they're judging maturity, whether it does fit, like, whether it is a cloud-native thing or not. |
[1130.48 --> 1130.80] Yeah. |
[1130.80 --> 1138.70] Like, if my transcoding software or, you know, some other random project that has nothing to do with cloud computing gets submitted to the sandbox. |
[1138.76 --> 1138.88] Sure. |
[1138.88 --> 1142.52] Which, that happens, TOC doesn't want that. |
[1142.60 --> 1143.46] Like, that's not the CNCF. |
[1143.46 --> 1145.42] Yeah, it makes sense that it has to be, like, inside the scope. |
[1145.64 --> 1146.84] So, there's a vulva rope. |
[1146.92 --> 1150.80] So, my personal opinion is I don't think that's healthy for the ecosystem. |
[1150.98 --> 1151.12] Sure. |
[1151.12 --> 1163.20] But that said, and I think the party line would be, if you want to be supported in the ecosystem and have the namesake of the foundation behind you, |
[1163.50 --> 1166.04] yeah, you probably want to join the CNCF. |
[1166.82 --> 1177.66] I also have feelings that, at some times, some projects probably should not have been, shouldn't have applied. |
[1177.66 --> 1184.66] But, again, that's why my personal opinions and the TOC are the people that vote on it. |
[1184.96 --> 1185.56] Not me. |
[1185.70 --> 1187.92] Your job is to support the ones that do make it in. |
[1188.14 --> 1188.38] Yep. |
[1188.78 --> 1190.54] However, they need support. |
[1190.96 --> 1198.46] And, honestly, projects that aren't in the CNCF but are in the landscape, I'm still, like, around to support and talk to. |
[1198.46 --> 1205.88] Because, again, I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing to have projects outside. |
[1206.08 --> 1212.00] Also, projects outside looking in could potentially spawn other projects that do want to come in. |
[1212.38 --> 1212.50] Sure. |
[1213.22 --> 1214.50] Do you like this job? |
[1215.36 --> 1215.58] Yeah. |
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