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2023-Changelog-Interviews-Transcripts

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[4071.44 --> 4076.90] And I was, like, I always thought I would be, like, an entrepreneur and start my own company at some point.
[4077.28 --> 4079.30] But I didn't see it coming at that point in time.
[4079.38 --> 4081.92] So, I told the VCs, yeah, it's not for me right now.
[4082.06 --> 4082.24] Right.
[4082.24 --> 4083.78] But some of them persisted.
[4083.92 --> 4086.70] And in the end, yeah, we took it and went.
[4087.10 --> 4088.58] So, what turned the no into the yes?
[4088.66 --> 4091.48] Was it a deal you couldn't turn down from a VC?
[4091.76 --> 4093.98] Or was it your partner that was, like, come on, let's do this?
[4094.34 --> 4095.48] It was a combination of things.
[4095.56 --> 4097.80] I think mostly we saw Dapper really take off.
[4097.90 --> 4103.42] And we figured out, yes, there can be a business model, especially around helping enterprises operate it on Kubernetes.
[4104.24 --> 4108.46] You know, Kubernetes is a complex piece of software to operate.
[4108.56 --> 4113.92] And so, we really saw the struggle of developers operating Dapper on top of Kubernetes.
[4114.10 --> 4115.46] And we knew we had something to give there.
[4115.70 --> 4117.72] This is not something we could have done with Microsoft.
[4117.72 --> 4129.96] But also, ultimately, our vision is to come out with a distributed systems API platform that developers from serverless platforms and really platforms from all types of compute can leverage.
[4130.40 --> 4130.48] Right.
[4130.52 --> 4131.62] So, it's like serverless Dapper.
[4131.84 --> 4133.32] You can run it outside of Kubernetes.
[4133.48 --> 4134.64] You can run it whatever you want.
[4134.76 --> 4134.98] Okay.
[4135.08 --> 4136.74] And to do that, it needs to be multi-cloud.
[4137.00 --> 4142.08] And so, that was another reason why we thought we'd leave Microsoft and start it with our own company.
[4142.22 --> 4145.18] We really want to build our vision of distributed systems through the Dapper APIs.
[4145.84 --> 4146.14] Okay.
[4146.14 --> 4149.88] What year was that when you started the Diagrid?
[4149.98 --> 4151.06] It was January 2022.
[4151.90 --> 4154.16] So, a year ago, plus and change.
[4154.66 --> 4154.98] Yes.
[4155.42 --> 4156.32] That's some nice logos here.
[4156.40 --> 4157.96] You got IBM Research.
[4158.32 --> 4160.46] This is for your company, Diagrid.
[4160.74 --> 4163.00] IBM Research, Intel, Microsoft.
[4163.36 --> 4164.24] Hey, makes sense.
[4164.30 --> 4165.04] You did that integration.
[4165.82 --> 4172.92] Alibaba Cloud, Huawei, Bosch, Ignition Group, Tencent.
[4172.92 --> 4176.06] I mean, these are like major enterprise players.
[4176.44 --> 4176.64] Yeah.
[4176.78 --> 4180.94] There are a lot of other players who have not come out as public adopters yet.
[4180.94 --> 4184.38] Really, some of the biggest names in the industries.
[4184.38 --> 4191.64] And what's fascinating about Dapper is that it was adopted by the tech savvy enterprises before it was adopted by startups, for example.
[4192.10 --> 4193.54] And you usually see it the other way around.
[4193.66 --> 4193.76] Yeah.
[4194.02 --> 4199.62] You know, as a company offering commercial products on top of Dapper, we're not complaining.
[4199.98 --> 4200.92] That works out really well for us.
[4200.92 --> 4201.96] That sounds great for you guys.
[4201.96 --> 4203.08] Why do you think that was?
[4203.14 --> 4206.24] Is it because it solves enterprise scale problems?
[4206.74 --> 4207.18] Yes.
[4207.32 --> 4216.54] I think startups, what's most important to them is to make sure that they deliver on their business, which means they want their infrastructure to be as reliable as possible.
[4216.54 --> 4221.20] So they're not as, you know, likely to take on new bets and new technologies.
[4221.36 --> 4231.26] But enterprises, on the other hand, they have resources and they look at new technologies as a way to go to market faster, reach the market faster and really outpace their competition.
[4231.48 --> 4233.08] So they're much more open to new tech.
[4233.08 --> 4239.82] And I think also it coming from Microsoft really gave it like the enterprise stamp that made people feel really comfortable adopting it.
[4240.52 --> 4243.66] Why is it important to have a managed version of Dapper?
[4244.42 --> 4244.66] Yeah.
[4244.80 --> 4247.90] So if you're on Kubernetes, for example, you need to manage Dapper yourself.
[4248.30 --> 4250.74] And as a developer, you just talk to the Dapper APIs.
[4250.86 --> 4251.20] It's easy.
[4251.58 --> 4255.20] But as an ops team, it's really difficult to babysit the control plane, you know.
[4255.54 --> 4262.70] On Kubernetes, every type of technology that has a control plane that manages a data plane, like a service mesh, you know, Istio, Linkerd, Consul, Dapper.
[4262.70 --> 4263.54] It's no different.
[4264.00 --> 4265.28] It's really troublesome.
[4265.62 --> 4268.06] It's a lot of cognitive overhead for infrastructure teams.
[4268.44 --> 4274.68] You need to upgrade, downgrade, do certificate renewals, you know, monitor, observe the infrastructure.
[4275.12 --> 4278.90] So we basically do it for you and we take all of that pain away for you.
[4279.14 --> 4281.66] And then the other product we're coming out with is serverless Dapper.
[4282.08 --> 4285.74] So using Dapper outside of Kubernetes on whatever compute platform you want.
[4286.22 --> 4290.42] Browser, Wasm, Edge, Google Cloud Run, AWS Lambda.
[4290.42 --> 4292.94] And whatever compute you're running on, you'll be able to use Dapper.
[4293.40 --> 4295.82] Is it a problem of scale that makes you want to go managed?
[4295.98 --> 4303.50] Or is it like if I'm a small team with, let's say, a three-node Kubernetes cluster, is managing Dapper, myself, my ops team, not a big deal, right?
[4303.72 --> 4303.94] Yeah.
[4304.18 --> 4308.14] If you're a small operation, then managing Dapper yourself will probably be something that you should be able to do.
[4308.14 --> 4310.98] It's once you go to much, much bigger.
[4311.32 --> 4313.46] Huawei size, IBM research size.
[4313.46 --> 4315.98] Well, slightly smaller than that, too.
[4316.12 --> 4321.52] Like we have really good end users for Diagrid, like Sharper Image, for example.
[4322.04 --> 4323.02] They're a mid-sized company.
[4323.28 --> 4330.42] They wrote their own application platform and they replaced it with Dapper internally because they want to really replat on something that was standard.
[4331.46 --> 4335.02] And they're a five-person development team, I think.
[4335.14 --> 4338.74] And they're using our services to manage it because, you know, they're a small team.
[4338.88 --> 4340.30] They want to focus on their business logic.
[4340.38 --> 4341.88] They want to focus on managing Dapper.
[4341.88 --> 4344.22] So this also helps smaller teams.
[4344.56 --> 4344.68] Yeah.
[4345.38 --> 4349.16] Can you speak to the reluctant founder journey to some degree?
[4349.24 --> 4350.68] Like you said you eventually wanted to be an entrepreneur.
[4350.84 --> 4351.66] You just wasn't sure when.
[4351.82 --> 4352.00] Yeah.
[4352.24 --> 4355.26] And speak to the, I have this open source project.
[4355.48 --> 4358.98] I incubated it or I am incubating it inside of CNCF.
[4359.40 --> 4362.14] Why incubate or donate to the CNCF?
[4362.20 --> 4364.28] Like what does that benefit the project?
[4364.54 --> 4365.76] You speak to all those details.
[4365.96 --> 4368.48] For those listeners out there thinking, you know, I'm you.
[4368.62 --> 4370.16] I'm a version of you at some point.
[4370.22 --> 4371.20] I may do something like this.
[4371.20 --> 4372.32] Why did you take this route?