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[1090.56 --> 1095.38] aligns with our research goals that makes sense like we're not just out there cutthroat working |
[1095.38 --> 1100.66] for half a million dollars because somebody wants to pay us money to build something for them i mean |
[1100.66 --> 1105.64] we'd consider it but it has to align with our research goals things that we want to know things |
[1105.64 --> 1111.82] that we know that the community needs those are the kinds of uh of customers that we've been looking |
[1111.82 --> 1119.18] for and been finding we also recognized from the beginning that shipping apps is hard it's really hard |
[1119.18 --> 1126.24] like i mean anybody can build an app but once you're done how do you distribute it how do you update it |
[1126.24 --> 1135.94] how do you sign it and for that we're building a platform to empower the people to ship their apps |
[1135.94 --> 1145.00] like super easy super cheap in some cases totally discounted for open source and we know that this |
[1145.00 --> 1151.14] is going to get a little political i don't know if that's okay but we know that the incumbents uh like |
[1151.14 --> 1159.30] microsoft and apple and alphabets and meta and byte dance they have vested interests well maybe less |
[1159.30 --> 1165.28] byte dance but definitely the the platforms they have an interest in keeping a hold over a chokehold |
[1165.28 --> 1170.76] over the app signing process they keep such a chokehold on it that in my opinion it's not |
[1170.76 --> 1176.26] talked about enough in the supply chain like that final bit of app signing for gui apps and you know |
[1176.26 --> 1181.46] in some cases even cli apps it's just like oh yeah apple will take care of that for you we got you we |
[1181.46 --> 1186.88] got you come here come here and just give me your 99 euro or microsoft changing the game suddenly last |
[1186.88 --> 1193.88] april saying now you have to get an extended validation dongle or hsm but don't worry you can use our |
[1193.88 --> 1201.02] super secure never been hacked for azure platform for that google is a little bit less concerned i |
[1201.02 --> 1207.24] think that anything that impacts their ad business is going to uh be a problem for them but apps on |
[1207.24 --> 1212.06] devices keeps people on devices keeps them buying devices so i think that that that's okay for them |
[1212.06 --> 1218.06] but when i hear from people from the tower community that they are having problems signing their apps |
[1218.06 --> 1223.22] people aren't like some people don't even sign them they just ship their microsoft apps without a |
[1223.22 --> 1229.90] developer signature and they're like people will deal with it and there's no money solution here |
[1229.90 --> 1236.54] there's no lobbying we can do but we can in europe at least get involved with the european commission |
[1236.54 --> 1247.48] and its platform policy work serving as experts and you know making sure that these these changes |
[1247.48 --> 1254.66] are respected that other types of app stores can be on their devices other third-party apps can now |
[1254.66 --> 1263.12] starting in april in the european union by law have to be landing on these devices and you know i i feel |
[1263.12 --> 1271.30] i feel very very deeply about empowering the citizen developers out there who don't have the 99 euro or who |
[1271.30 --> 1279.54] are in a third world so-called third world country where 99 is just like a month of food but they still |
[1279.54 --> 1284.78] can build their apps but they can't distribute them and they have no access to these larger markets i find |
[1284.78 --> 1291.34] that compelling in a very sad way and i think that you know the the this mixture of good business good |
[1291.34 --> 1298.78] politics supporting the community is really in the dna of crab nebula so much to the point that |
[1298.78 --> 1304.38] one of our first products that we're going to be bringing out in q4 and you can find out about it |
[1304.38 --> 1312.72] just by following our socials is a dev tool because debugging anything is hard debugging towery is triple |
[1312.72 --> 1321.52] hard web has great dev tools apps not so much and we want people to be able to connect their app to an |
[1321.52 --> 1326.14] analyzer to figure out where things are going wrong or getting better and i i understand you're thinking |
[1326.14 --> 1331.76] daniel this is niche not many people are using towery but the the great news is that we're we're |
[1331.76 --> 1338.48] working together with other partners in the rust ecosystem to define and and use emerging standards |
[1338.48 --> 1344.98] so that the work that we're doing for towery people can be used by at first others in the rust |
[1344.98 --> 1352.70] ecosystem and later other ecosystems as they get interested in it and i i think the the final thing |
[1352.70 --> 1359.64] that i'd like to point out is that you asked how how is this how is this possible how can you keep the |
[1359.64 --> 1367.96] the energy going the the momentum going and in open source projects you generally have like three or |
[1367.96 --> 1374.18] four models one a company sits on top puts its thumb down it's not even benevolent dictator it's like |
[1374.18 --> 1380.00] we're doing this now this way we're calling our project open source and later on we can rug pull |
[1380.00 --> 1388.28] but another one is a benevolent dictator who decides the way the project goes generally takes all of the |
[1388.28 --> 1394.72] funds and other people contribute as they have time people come people go and what we have with |
[1394.72 --> 1402.86] towery though is is really quite compelling because from the core team five of the people are still around |
[1402.86 --> 1409.70] almost five years later and i think that that's a testament to the fact that we really enjoy doing it |
[1409.70 --> 1419.60] and yet i don't believe that it should be just the goal of one company in sitting in malta to finance |
[1419.60 --> 1426.88] an entire open source project right and we do have donors and that's amazing i think where where things |
[1426.88 --> 1435.34] are tending toward is toward applying for more systemic grants you know where we apply for funding from |
[1435.34 --> 1443.34] the european commission from organizations like nl net and potentially even other companies come and recognize |
[1443.34 --> 1449.26] the value that they've gotten from the community and start giving back i don't know i think that that that's a |
[1449.26 --> 1456.92] very long long play expecting people that get something for free to give back to a community that they're not so much |
[1456.92 --> 1463.40] involved in there's a lot to unpack there at the end of the last show i asked you about venture capital and the |
[1463.40 --> 1469.32] organization and things that would come from the one point over at least that was about a year ago and you |
[1469.32 --> 1475.02] kind of tease us a little bit with a topic we like to talk about with core doctorow choke point capitalism i think |
[1475.02 --> 1480.86] you're talking about that with app signing i think that's definitely a a position of hey if there's an artist |
[1480.86 --> 1486.34] shipping something there's a choke point at some point that says okay we're gonna collect our our toll our fee |
[1486.34 --> 1491.40] and that seems like what one part of your mission then you mentioned the core team and the model of open |
[1491.40 --> 1497.92] source which i think is interesting i'd love to touch all those obviously but uh maybe focus in on the |
[1497.92 --> 1502.62] organization itself like remind us what its license as remind us of the organization what has happened |
[1502.62 --> 1508.70] since one point to sort of formalize i know you mentioned crab nebula what exactly is the model of |
[1508.70 --> 1513.74] towery right now like how do you compare it to others you mentioned company atop rug polling we've seen |
[1513.74 --> 1519.38] that more recently and that's fresh and uh it's a fresh wound to the open source community |
[1519.38 --> 1524.94] yeah absolutely so nothing has changed in the organizational structure of towery itself there |
[1524.94 --> 1531.58] is still a board of directors there is still an entity held within a dutch foundation the proper |
[1531.58 --> 1538.02] name is the towery program within the commons conservancy all of the code is open source apache to |
[1538.02 --> 1545.06] mit dual licensed at your leisure we take potential license violations within our own code base very |
[1545.06 --> 1552.84] seriously we will investigate those and resolve them a lot of times uh it's a mistake usually it's |
[1552.84 --> 1558.30] something we can correct actually i think we've always corrected them so to summarize the licenses |
[1558.30 --> 1567.22] mit apache to it is still morally stewarded by the car the the commons conservancy and internally |
[1567.22 --> 1574.70] there is a working group composed of people who elect themselves to join to the working group currently |
[1574.70 --> 1584.42] there are about 45 members of the working group and i would say about 20 are active and these are not |
[1584.42 --> 1591.74] all employees of crime nebula i mean there's a large number of them but the majority of the current |
[1591.74 --> 1598.78] working group members are not and we even have other companies more or less explicitly involved or with |
[1598.78 --> 1607.10] or by association one of our board members actually works at microsoft so from the organizational side of |
[1607.10 --> 1615.98] the open source projects nothing has changed from the perspective of the company we are donating slash |
[1615.98 --> 1621.50] allocating i don't know how you want to say it full-time employees to spend all of their working time |
[1621.50 --> 1630.54] on research developments and maintenance of towering itself of the the core pieces of that tech and then |
[1631.02 --> 1638.78] the products that the the company itself makes and distributes are generally going to be at the very |
[1638.78 --> 1643.18] least source available we always want to make sure that people can see what we're doing and have faith in |
[1643.18 --> 1649.18] what we're doing a lot of the things will also be open source mit apache 2 as as we roll them out |
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[1758.16 --> 1766.16] so crab nebula is the entity which has all these amazing angels correct correct and it's starting off as |
[1766.16 --> 1773.04] consulting and auditing but that's not the big picture that you drew for these angels that got them |
[1773.04 --> 1778.56] excited i would imagine it'd be okay to back something like that but your bigger picture is |
[1779.20 --> 1786.16] products services seems like some sort of distribution network of you know maybe app stores etc for the |
[1786.16 --> 1794.56] tower ecosystem is that what you're saying right we see consulting itself as a way to offset the cost of |
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