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[377.68 --> 386.08] expectations when we built the original project and in most cases we're finding that it's not necessarily |
[386.08 --> 392.64] an edge case but people have to start learning to maybe think differently about how they construct |
[392.64 --> 399.92] their apps and and move heavy lifting to the rust side and use the the the user interface for user |
[399.92 --> 405.88] interface things and not put so much logic and i think for a lot of you know classically recognized |
[405.88 --> 410.88] full stack devs it can be kind of complicated because you don't care where it runs it you know |
[410.88 --> 416.68] on the client in the browser on the cloud at the edge as long as it's running somewhere that's fine but |
[416.68 --> 422.94] we're trying to provide these these highly tuned opportunities and you know people are making |
[422.94 --> 428.48] musical instruments they're making drawing tools they're being creative and i think the the the |
[428.48 --> 435.10] biggest news out of our ecosystem is recently fig io which is a developer tool that gives you kind of a |
[435.10 --> 443.50] supercharged command line experience was just acquired by aws yeah i saw that and they use uh the |
[443.50 --> 450.86] windowing and the web viewing libraries of towri so they're part of the towri family and i guess |
[450.86 --> 457.52] the uptake has been has been really heartwarming to see and it's also you know it's early days i think |
[457.52 --> 466.14] a lot of projects are in stealth uh you know if you look at that awesome uh towri repo i don't know like |
[466.14 --> 472.36] 10 percent of them are closed source which means people are you know making money selling their |
[472.36 --> 478.20] products there's ecosystem plays that are being being made where people are starting to offer |
[478.20 --> 485.78] license servers or license services or analytics people are creating integrations with you know |
[485.78 --> 493.10] supabase and airtable and firebase and you know you're starting to see these projects come in that |
[493.10 --> 498.48] have a set of requirements and people are solving the problems and i think that's the exciting part |
[498.48 --> 505.58] that we're at now you know last year when i was here we were really in the issue bubble and and the |
[505.58 --> 514.14] issue bubble in open source is a place where you only hear complaints you only hear problems you only |
[514.14 --> 521.94] see people struggling with what you've built and and over the past year we've started to hear from |
[521.94 --> 531.88] companies that are using towri internally we've started recognizing oh yeah right um engineers solve |
[531.88 --> 536.84] problems and if you're behind a corporate firewall you're going to solve your problem one way or the |
[536.84 --> 542.76] other and yeah i mean that's really awesome to hear just looking at the sponsors listed on the |
[542.76 --> 547.14] homepage there's lots of big names there as well so i assume they have some sort of interest in the |
[547.14 --> 553.82] success of the project do you find that the rust we focus a lot on the rust aspect of towri last time |
[553.82 --> 558.82] around it was just kind of digging into the tool and figuring out how to use it and one thing that |
[558.82 --> 563.00] you said that stuck with me at that time is you think that this is a nice you didn't say gateway drug |
[563.00 --> 569.48] but i will say that it's a nice entrance into the rust ecosystem and i wonder you know i've been |
[569.48 --> 575.78] tinkering a little bit with just the fringes of towri as i found in a use case i've been waiting for a use |
[575.78 --> 581.36] case to give it a try so i've been doing the getting started and dipping my toe into the water |
[581.36 --> 587.92] as it were and as a web developer you know full stack web developer whatever you want to call me |
[587.92 --> 595.80] somewhat intimidating even though nothing seems too dragon-y so far but i'm still just like |
[595.80 --> 602.78] not so sure about like you said where do i put things what belongs in rust what doesn't |
[602.78 --> 609.30] etc is that a common refrain are you answering those questions a lot do you think it's been a |
[609.30 --> 614.86] barrier to adoption because it's an opportunity for rust but it might be a barrier for towri i think |
[614.86 --> 620.22] it's both i really think it's both i know that people are learning rust because once you get to a |
[620.22 --> 626.24] certain point in building your app you're like oh i need to send a message from one window to another |
[626.24 --> 634.26] window and i have to use the rust bridge to do that or you you want to you know do tighter integrations |
[634.26 --> 643.10] with the cryptographic systems you want to avoid using the database inside of the web view so you |
[643.10 --> 651.70] you kind of have to start thinking about oh i'm going to say it wrong sql sqlites sql i don't tell you |
[651.70 --> 657.08] how to say that the database sql there you go richard hip told us how i still can't toe the line |
[657.08 --> 663.42] but adam always has it sqlite and you know to address your question we're seeing a lot more |
[663.42 --> 671.06] questions come up about using more rust in the background of a tower app than in the foreground |
[671.06 --> 678.70] of the the javascript side there are always still people just you know dabbling well look i think that |
[678.70 --> 684.04] the opportunities that people have to learn new programming languages come with risk and benefits |
[684.04 --> 689.80] and it's really up to the people to decide what they want to do we've seen both sides of this where |
[689.80 --> 697.18] people have jumped because rust is hard to learn we've also seen people embrace it and use toweri as a |
[697.18 --> 705.82] way to become a rust engineer so we've seen both and i think that what we've also seen are people |
[705.82 --> 713.60] who say well look i'm using python already i don't care about rust so open bb they made a a python |
[713.60 --> 718.96] adapter for one of the low-level libraries somebody else just recently posted an elixir |
[718.96 --> 725.96] kind of binding so you can use a phoenix channels instead of rust people are working on believe it or |
[725.96 --> 733.24] not a php backend so that you can write all your logic at php and still get all of the benefits of |
[733.24 --> 739.06] or type rust core and a user interface that can directly access both the rest apis through its |
[739.06 --> 748.16] javascript or call out to believe it or not php javascript ideas on the horizon as well so i i think |
[748.16 --> 755.62] that like what tallry itself started out as is one thing and where it's moving i think is another and |
[755.62 --> 761.76] that is turning into a collection of tools that you can kind of pick and choose how you want to piece |
[761.76 --> 766.90] them together that's really interesting to hear it sounds like there's enough value there enough |
[766.90 --> 772.86] interest to when even if rust is a barrier for you there's people that are like look i can work around |
[772.86 --> 779.36] this particular aspect of toweri by building a php backend for instance or providing access to elixir |
[779.36 --> 784.86] because i want to use it so bad and i don't really want to use this part of it so i mean that to me |
[784.86 --> 791.74] shows quite a bit of interest for people willing to you know break out their code editors and work |
[791.74 --> 800.68] around or code around these issues that's that's pretty cool but you have this year as we meet again |
[800.68 --> 807.24] you have more news obviously the mobile stuff is huge but you also have news around uh what's behind |
[807.24 --> 814.96] toweri open source strategy funding round there's lots going on there i know you had a very interesting |
[814.96 --> 819.84] take on open source last time can you tell us what you guys have figured out in terms of making this |
[819.84 --> 826.62] thing i don't know sustain and and thrive it's tricky we actually started a company last year |
[826.62 --> 834.28] some of us from the toweri working group started a company last year in november okay and it was |
[834.28 --> 841.10] really important to us that nothing changed from the outside it's still a militantly driven open |
[841.10 --> 850.04] source community that now is supercharged with a handful of engineers being paid full-time to do the |
[850.04 --> 857.44] research development and maintenance that a massive project like toweri needs and that company is called |
[857.44 --> 867.16] crab nebula we we chose crab nebula because we liked the idea of a place where stars are born a nebula is a |
[867.16 --> 876.46] a star factory if you will and we chose crab because well rust the the the icon the the avatar if you will |
[876.46 --> 887.32] is ferris the little crustacean rustation and now obviously you can't make a pitch to a vc and say we're |
[887.32 --> 896.28] just gonna serve as a charity and donate all of your money to open source things uh would be nice |
[896.28 --> 904.94] if they work that way maybe but i think that uh we we found the perfect vc uh to join us on this trip |
[904.94 --> 914.40] that's jj from oss capital west coast based venture group that only supports early stage open source |
[914.40 --> 922.36] projects commercial open source projects and through jj and through years and years of being around |
[922.36 --> 930.88] we sort of collected an all-star regiment of of angels who joined us along the way i could drop all |
[930.88 --> 936.76] of the names uh maybe you can edit them out or choose the ones you like but i think you know of the |
[936.76 --> 945.26] almost 30 angels that we have the good dozen that are really relevant um are you know novel ravikant |
[945.26 --> 952.08] from angel list automatic inc the company the investment arm of automatic from wordpress fame |
[952.08 --> 959.64] guillermo rauch the ceo of versell thomas domka the ceo of github uh tom preston werner the |
[959.64 --> 967.30] co-founder the original co-founder of github uh paul copplestone from superbase justin hoffman the |
[967.30 --> 972.16] former svp of elastic if i didn't say bob young i'll say his name again because he's amazing |
[972.16 --> 980.98] but amad mustikyu was the ceo of stability ai clement de long the co-founder and ceo of hugging face |
[980.98 --> 988.40] dave tier the founder of one password adam wiggins the co-founder of heroku navin gudropa the founder |
[988.40 --> 995.14] of noco db heather meeker if you know heather she's uh not only the general partner of oss capital |
[995.14 --> 1003.56] but wrote the book on oss licensing and you know we also have a couple people like uh cassidy williams |
[1003.56 --> 1011.24] who's the cto of condenda you maybe know her as cassidy also uh tijas kumar and i think what |
[1011.24 --> 1020.18] what drove us to work with this number of angels is getting to to know your idols the people that have |
[1020.18 --> 1025.46] built open source the people who are building open source and people who are poised to build the next |
[1025.46 --> 1033.40] open source who understand the challenges of not only having a product but also having the machinery |
[1033.40 --> 1039.68] the understanding and the ability to innovate into products and new products as they come out um |
[1039.68 --> 1050.66] so that happens and nothing changed at toweri i mean we kept on building toweri in line with our um |
[1050.66 --> 1061.32] foundations expectations but behind the scenes um we are working on a few products i mean other than |
[1061.32 --> 1066.88] investing time in toweri we're also auditing toweri that's one of the things that we love doing |
[1066.88 --> 1073.32] actually is auditing people's uh software that they built with toweri with rust you know we just |
[1073.32 --> 1082.28] completed an audit for a company called blue bay eye that uses toweri we don't really do custom |
[1082.28 --> 1090.56] development we do but we don't like we will pick from uh clients who want to have something done that |
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