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• Upstreaming the Tauri bundler for wider use beyond Tauri |
• Cooperation vs competition in open-source projects |
• The potential for Tauri to help other projects, like Slint, succeed |
• Building a web browser using Tauri's existing infrastructure |
• Leveraging the Servo web view as a target for a browser-like experience |
• Priorities for a potential Tauri-based web browser, including privacy-respect and security-by-design |
• Browser design without ads and prioritizing security |
• Revision of password and cryptography models |
• Discussion of web browser features and requirements |
• Comparison of Electron and Tauri, highlighting their differences and benefits |
• Importance of performance, speed, and battery use in browser design |
• Conservation of electricity and environmental impact of software development |
• Tauri's advantage over Node.js is its ability to integrate easily with third languages and provide a "glue" for combining backend and frontend components |
• The project has grown beyond its original scope and now aims to support a larger ecosystem |
• Tauri provides low-level libraries for creating user interfaces, including Tau, which handles window creation and touchy-feely stuff |
• The project offers several ways to create user interfaces, including a web view, immediate mode windows, and a web GPU window type |
• The team is considering using Servo or CEF (Chromium embedded framework) in the future |
• The market for cross-platform UI widgets and components is still small and may not be ready for productization yet |
• Tauri 2.0 nearing beta phase, with internal compliance and external audit pending |
• Audit process involves Radically Open Security and CrabNebula, with findings to be addressed before release |
• Release of Tauri 2.0 will include mobile support |
• Challenges of open-source development, including difficulties in providing timelines |
• Discussion of the Tauri 2.0 release schedule and expectations for completion |
**Jerod Santo:** Alright, we're here with Daniel Thompson from Tauri, back after about a year and a half we had you on the podcast... Welcome back, Daniel. |
**Daniel Thompson:** Thanks. It's really, really great to see you guys again. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** One of the main compliments we got was how amazing your voice is. |
**Jerod Santo:** I was kind of jealous. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. People were jelly of your voice. |
**Daniel Thompson:** Yeah, well... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** "Yeah, well..." \[laughter\] |
**Jerod Santo:** "What are you gonna do...?" |
**Daniel Thompson:** You know, I've gotten older, so it's more raspy now. I sound like my grandpa all of a sudden. Fast-forward, a year goes by and I'm 10 years older. |
**Jerod Santo:** Ha-ha! Has it been one of those years, or what? |
**Daniel Thompson:** It's been a nonstop year, yeah. I mean, we met I think last summer, after the 1.0 was released, talked about the plans for the future, and... I mean, I did review the show, and I think we were pretty spot on. This "Coming Soon" is going to be the release of the 2.0, which has mobile embedded into i... |
**Jerod Santo:** Excellent to hear. Well, for those who didn't listen the first time around, that episode is called build tiny multi-platform apps with Tauri and Webtech. I remember we had a hard time naming that episode... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah, we did. |
**Jerod Santo:** ...because Tauri is a little bit -- it's not hard to explain, but it's hard to like put into three words, which, we like to be in the three to five-word range. So Daniel, for those who heard that, but haven't heard much else of Tauri, give the quick explainer, so we're all on the same page. |
**Daniel Thompson:** Well, I mean, first and foremost, Tauri is a community of developers building stuff for developers. And the stuff we like to build for developers are tools to help make apps. We started out with desktop, and now we're working toward mobile apps, and you can bring any frontend framework you want. In... |
**Jerod Santo:** So you have a lot of sponsors, which is awesome. We talked to you right after 1.0, and usually, 1.0 is a time where people decide, "Okay, I can finally take this thing seriously", and it's usually a boon for adoption. Have you had a lot of folks building stuff with Tauri since the release? |
**Daniel Thompson:** \[05:43\] Yeah. I just recommend looking over at the awesome Tauri repo at our GitHub organization. It's kind of like endless scrolling. Lots of dev tools, lots of games, actually; things are being built for communication... And the rate at which I measure adoption though has changed a little bit o... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah, I saw that. |
**Daniel Thompson:** And they use the windowing and the web viewing libraries of Tauri. So they're part of the Tauri family. And I guess the uptake has been really heartwarming to see... And it's also early days. I think a lot of projects are in stealth. If you look at that awesome Tauri repo, I don't know, like 10% of... |
Last year when I was here, we were really in the issue bubble. And the issue bubble in open source is a place where you only hear complaints, you only hear problems, you only see people struggling with what you've built... And over the past year we've started to hear from companies that are using Tauri internally; we'v... |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah, I mean, that's really awesome to hear. Just looking at the sponsors listed on the homepage, there's lots of big names there as well, so I assume they have some sort of interest in the success of the project. Do you find that the Rust -- we focus a lot on the Rust aspect of Tauri. Last time around... |
**Daniel Thompson:** \[10:14\] I think it's both. I really think it's both. I know that people are learning Rust, because once you get to a certain point in building your app, you're like "Oh, I need to send a message from one window to another window, and I have to use the Rust bridge to do that." Or you want to do ti... |
**Jerod Santo:** Adam will tell you how to say that one. |
**Daniel Thompson:** That database... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** SQLite. |
**Jerod Santo:** There you go. Richard Hipp told us how. I still can't toe the line, but Adam always has it. SQLite. |
**Daniel Thompson:** And to address your question, we're seeing a lot more questions come up about using more Rust in the background of a Tauri app than in the foreground of the JavaScript side. There are always still people just dabbling... Well, look, I think that the opportunities that people have to learn new progr... |
**Jerod Santo:** Huh. |
**Daniel Thompson:** ...and still get all of the benefits of our tight Rust core, and a user interface that can directly access both the Rust APIs through its JavaScript, or call out to, believe it or not, PHP. JavaScript I hear is on the horizon as well. So I think that what Tauri itself started out as is one thing, a... |
**Jerod Santo:** That's really interesting to hear. It sounds like there's enough value there, enough interest where even if Rust is a barrier for you, there's people that are like "Look, I can work around this particular aspect of Tauri by building a PHP backend, for instance, or providing access to Elixir... Because ... |
But you have this year, as we meet again, you have more news -- obviously, the mobile stuff is huge... But you also have news around what's behind Tauri. Open source strategy, funding round... There's lots going on there... I know you had a very interesting take on open source last time. Can you tell us what you guys h... |
**Daniel Thompson:** It's tricky. We actually started a company last year; some of us from the Tauri working group started a company last year in November. |
**Jerod Santo:** Okay. |
**Daniel Thompson:** \[13:54\] And it was really important to us that nothing changed. From the outside, it's still a militantly driven open source community, that now is supercharged with a handful of engineers being paid full-time to do the research, development and maintenance that a massive project like Tauri needs... |
And through JJ and through years and years of being around, we sort of collected an all-star regiment of angels who joined us along the way. I could drop all of the names, maybe you can edit them out, or choose the ones you like, but I think of the almost 30 angels that we have, a good dozen that are really relevant ar... |
So that happened, and nothing changed at Tauri. I mean, we kept on building Tauri, in line with our foundations, expectations... But behind the scenes, we are working on a few products. I mean, other than investing time in Tauri, we're also auditing Tauri; that's one of the things that we love doing actually, is auditi... |
\[18:05\] We will pick from clients who wanted to have something done that aligns with our research goals, if that makes sense. We're not just out there, cutthroat working for half a million dollars because somebody wants to pay us money to build something for them. I mean, we'd consider it, but it has to align with ou... |
We also recognized from the beginning that shipping apps is hard. It's really hard. I mean, anybody can build an app, but once you're done, how do you distribute it? How do you update it? How do you sign it? And for that, we're building a platform to empower the people to ship their apps super-easy, super-cheap, and in... |
But when I hear from people from the Tauri community that they are having problems signing their apps... Some people don't even sign them. They just ship their Microsoft apps without a developer signature, and they're like "People will deal with it." And there's no money solution here. There's no lobbying we can do, bu... |
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