text
stringlengths
0
2.46k
[4312.58 --> 4316.08] I tend to be like slightly over there to be like, well, it's better than nothing.
[4316.24 --> 4317.78] I'm kind of on the sustainability side myself.
[4317.78 --> 4320.80] It's like, well, this is what I think is a good thing.
[4321.14 --> 4325.32] And we would not have this good thing if it weren't for this particular circumstance
[4325.32 --> 4326.62] that they chose.
[4327.24 --> 4329.88] Maybe they could have chose something different and it would be okay.
[4330.00 --> 4331.00] But this is what they chose.
[4331.32 --> 4332.56] I'd rather have that than nothing.
[4333.24 --> 4334.02] And so, okay.
[4334.08 --> 4338.92] I think eventually open source is kind of cool, but open source right now is cooler.
[4339.60 --> 4341.24] But maybe that thing wouldn't exist if there wasn't.
[4341.24 --> 4341.56] It's true though.
[4341.80 --> 4343.80] People apply different value frameworks, right?
[4343.80 --> 4343.98] Yeah.
[4344.02 --> 4345.40] Like what do you value changes?
[4345.40 --> 4349.28] And then there's other people who are like, no, it has to be OSI compatible.
[4349.50 --> 4353.44] And then there's obviously the FOSS side of things that has to be copy left, etc.
[4353.56 --> 4353.76] So.
[4354.34 --> 4357.86] And it's interesting because that's why these arguments can get kind of fractious because
[4357.86 --> 4359.14] no one's wrong, right?
[4359.16 --> 4360.84] It's like everybody has a defensible position.
[4360.90 --> 4361.14] Right.
[4361.34 --> 4362.66] In this whole thing.
[4363.16 --> 4366.08] But this goes back to Adam Jacobs' war for the soul of open source, right?
[4366.08 --> 4366.38] For sure.
[4366.60 --> 4368.18] It goes back to what do you value?
[4368.48 --> 4368.70] Yep.
[4368.82 --> 4369.72] And what is open?
[4369.80 --> 4370.92] Why do you come here?
[4371.16 --> 4371.36] Yeah.
[4371.36 --> 4371.60] Right?
[4372.40 --> 4372.62] Yeah.
[4372.68 --> 4373.96] And we all have to kind of answer that ourselves.
[4374.12 --> 4374.60] I don't know.
[4374.64 --> 4375.90] What are your thoughts on these things?
[4376.82 --> 4385.34] My thoughts on these things are I think the OSI needs some solution to this.
[4385.60 --> 4390.06] Someone else can productize your service and make a bazillion dollars and you see nothing
[4390.06 --> 4390.82] of a problem.
[4391.04 --> 4392.16] Because I do think it's a problem.
[4392.40 --> 4392.50] Yeah.
[4392.50 --> 4395.16] It creates an issue since we're talking about maintainer month.
[4395.28 --> 4395.54] Right.
[4395.62 --> 4399.76] You know, where the actual maintainers upon which these millions of dollars are built are
[4399.76 --> 4401.26] slogging it out on nights and weekends.
[4401.26 --> 4401.30] Exactly.
[4401.50 --> 4401.72] Right?
[4401.80 --> 4404.34] Ignoring their families while you're making a billion dollars.
[4404.44 --> 4405.44] Like that's a problem.
[4405.44 --> 4407.88] I get that it's tricky though, right?
[4407.96 --> 4408.04] Right.
[4408.04 --> 4411.44] Because the whole ethos behind open source project is there is no restrictions.
[4411.64 --> 4412.52] Do whatever you want with it.
[4412.52 --> 4412.72] It's free.
[4412.72 --> 4413.68] Do whatever you want, right?
[4413.78 --> 4417.80] Including make money off the backs of that one guy in Nebraska, right?
[4417.84 --> 4419.08] Who's maintaining like the base.
[4419.42 --> 4419.58] Yeah.
[4419.58 --> 4421.04] So I don't know.
[4421.22 --> 4422.86] I can see all angles on it.
[4423.10 --> 4427.62] But I do think that it's a clever way to make your open source or, you know, your open
[4427.62 --> 4431.98] source enough project, open source-ish product sustainable.
[4432.54 --> 4435.12] Because the, you know, the financial speak for itself.
[4435.26 --> 4435.44] Yeah.
[4435.70 --> 4435.96] Yeah.
[4436.62 --> 4441.40] So you think that OSI needs to either expand the definition to include some of these or
[4441.40 --> 4448.30] one of these or come up with some other license or model that is inside of its own definition
[4448.30 --> 4453.62] but allows for maintainers to thrive under this one circumstance that's really kind of crushing
[4453.62 --> 4455.08] certain maintainers.
[4455.08 --> 4455.12] Yeah.
[4455.20 --> 4456.88] I just think it needs to be grappled with.
[4457.00 --> 4457.16] Yeah.
[4457.26 --> 4458.28] And I'm sure it has been.
[4458.40 --> 4462.64] But I think it really needs to be grappled with because just being like, nope, this is
[4462.64 --> 4464.80] the definition, this one little box and that's it.
[4464.88 --> 4466.88] It's like that isn't working in 2023.
[4467.20 --> 4467.46] Yeah.
[4467.46 --> 4472.32] And what you're seeing like actually like abandonment of open source licenses for things like BSL
[4472.32 --> 4473.14] or SSPL.
[4473.36 --> 4473.52] Right.
[4473.52 --> 4475.34] Because there's no open source solution.
[4475.78 --> 4479.36] So in the same way we have different variations of Creative Commons, for example, that allow,
[4480.02 --> 4483.36] you know, require attribution, are non-commercial, that kind of thing.
[4483.36 --> 4483.46] Totally.
[4483.46 --> 4488.30] It feels like we need some model like that for open source licenses with whatever asterisks
[4488.30 --> 4489.24] and disclaimers are needed.
[4489.24 --> 4489.54] Right.
[4489.72 --> 4492.82] But without having informal framework for that, this is going to continue happening is my view.
[4492.82 --> 4495.40] You almost need a spectrum to address the spectrum, right?
[4495.50 --> 4495.84] Yeah.
[4496.62 --> 4496.84] Right?
[4496.88 --> 4501.04] Like a spectrum of licenses that move from one side to the other that allow you to slot in where
[4501.04 --> 4501.82] it matters for you.
[4501.92 --> 4502.18] Sure.
[4502.18 --> 4508.18] Do you pay attention much to the OSI's, I guess, news, so to speak?
[4508.24 --> 4511.80] The last time I checked, they were like, the SSPL is not open source.
[4511.90 --> 4513.96] And that was like a, the title of the blog post.
[4514.10 --> 4518.12] That was back in 2020, I think when we did the, I don't know when we did the episode,
[4518.26 --> 4518.60] 2021.
[4520.00 --> 4524.34] It was an elastic search and that debate they had between them and AWS.
[4524.84 --> 4525.02] Yeah.