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[4084.94 --> 4085.10] Yeah. |
[4085.24 --> 4089.44] And I kind of just, you know, we've kept in touch and I, you know, kind of subtly was |
[4089.44 --> 4093.12] like, Hey, you know, I'm not actively like looking, but if you know of anything, just |
[4093.12 --> 4094.00] pass it along my way. |
[4094.00 --> 4095.08] And yeah, he passed it along. |
[4095.12 --> 4096.86] And I was like, wow, this is really cool. |
[4096.98 --> 4100.06] And so I got to kind of meet the different, you know, leadership at MongoDB. |
[4100.26 --> 4101.56] And I was like, these people are awesome. |
[4101.56 --> 4103.44] Like they really believe in this. |
[4103.44 --> 4104.94] And like the, the story is amazing. |
[4104.94 --> 4107.04] And there's a lot of good I can do here. |
[4107.04 --> 4107.36] Yeah. |
[4107.86 --> 4112.94] And I feel like I did do a lot of good there, but you know, it gets into a lot of like, |
[4113.10 --> 4117.26] I don't know how much you get into legal, you know, philosophy debates around licensing |
[4117.26 --> 4119.26] and stuff, but MongoDB is not open source. |
[4119.44 --> 4120.40] It is SSPL. |
[4121.12 --> 4121.76] We covered this. |
[4121.90 --> 4122.20] Yeah. |
[4122.22 --> 4128.16] Well, not Mongo directly, but all the peripherals around the BSL, the SSPL. |
[4128.50 --> 4128.64] Yeah. |
[4128.74 --> 4128.94] Right. |
[4129.04 --> 4129.56] All the. |
[4129.60 --> 4130.82] Mostly with a view into Elastic. |
[4130.82 --> 4131.44] All the nuance. |
[4131.60 --> 4131.68] Yeah. |
[4131.94 --> 4132.20] Elastic. |
[4132.20 --> 4135.24] It's interesting because like the OSI hasn't quite cracked this yet. |
[4135.24 --> 4135.58] Right. |
[4136.04 --> 4140.58] Because if you look objectively at open source projects that have adopted these open-ish |
[4140.58 --> 4143.10] licenses, except if you're going to run your own service. |
[4143.26 --> 4143.48] Right. |
[4143.78 --> 4145.98] It becomes a stable funding model for them. |
[4146.24 --> 4150.32] Like, you know, MongoDB's revenue went boom, boom, boom, boom, you know, and the open source, |
[4150.46 --> 4152.78] true open source communities do not have that. |
[4153.22 --> 4157.86] And Amazon or somebody can take their product, productize it on their own thing, charge a bazillion |
[4157.86 --> 4160.98] dollars, and they don't have any obligation to give back anything to the project. |
[4161.08 --> 4162.04] So it's a huge challenge. |
[4162.20 --> 4162.30] Yeah. |
[4162.50 --> 4163.24] So I appreciate that. |
[4163.32 --> 4164.34] It has restrictions though, right? |
[4164.42 --> 4168.00] Like the SSPL and the BSL both have restrictions, which I think is the sticking point. |
[4168.00 --> 4169.64] And that's why they're not open source licenses. |
[4169.64 --> 4169.72] Right. |
[4169.72 --> 4169.92] Exactly. |
[4170.10 --> 4172.06] It's obvious why there is this sticking point. |
[4172.14 --> 4174.28] It's not like, oh, well, we just can't call them open source. |
[4174.48 --> 4174.76] Yeah. |
[4175.04 --> 4179.50] Because eventually open source is not open source necessarily. |
[4179.82 --> 4179.98] Exactly. |
[4179.98 --> 4184.00] Now, there will be people out there who will argue that, as you may know, and those people |
[4184.00 --> 4188.26] may even operate those companies who run that software that is BSL or SSPL licensed. |
[4188.64 --> 4189.18] And that's cool. |
[4189.42 --> 4191.06] And I'm not, but it is restricted. |
[4191.06 --> 4194.78] So by the nature of restriction, it is not open. |
[4195.42 --> 4195.82] Exactly. |
[4196.10 --> 4201.44] But it is an interesting thing in that absent of having a sustainable recurring revenue model |
[4201.44 --> 4203.46] that you can build off a service for on your thing. |
[4203.56 --> 4203.90] Right. |
[4203.90 --> 4207.30] You kind of have to do one-off projects or you have to beg for money from big corporate. |
[4207.30 --> 4209.50] Like your funding options are much more limited. |
[4209.68 --> 4209.94] For sure. |
[4210.06 --> 4214.40] So I respected MongoDB a lot that they went after a solution to that problem. |
[4214.70 --> 4215.10] Right. |
[4215.10 --> 4220.06] Even if it's not in keeping with the full spirit of open source, it was like, it's creative. |
[4220.20 --> 4221.10] I give you credit for that. |
[4221.10 --> 4228.28] I think the community accepts the SSPL and the BSL licensed solutions you're talking about, |
[4228.34 --> 4229.04] though, quite well. |
[4229.74 --> 4231.16] You know, one in particular is a sponsor of us. |
[4231.16 --> 4232.64] It depends on the part of the community. |
[4232.64 --> 4234.06] Which part of the community you're talking about. |
[4234.20 --> 4234.34] Yeah. |
[4234.34 --> 4234.82] Yeah. |
[4234.94 --> 4238.26] But I mean, I guess what I mean by that is that it's not like, oh, you chose that, |
[4238.34 --> 4242.98] so you're there for your bad because you decided to go a route that funded your business or |
[4242.98 --> 4243.98] made your business sustainable. |
[4244.32 --> 4247.56] I think the sustainable side more so than the funding side is the part that you have |
[4247.56 --> 4253.02] to have empathy on because particularly Century would not be a company and be as profitable |
[4253.02 --> 4255.32] as it is if it was not BSL licensed. |
[4255.42 --> 4258.74] If it was originally, I believe, Apache VO2, I could be wrong. |
[4258.74 --> 4265.98] But if it was not BSL licensed, it would not have the funding model it has, nor be giving |
[4265.98 --> 4266.70] back to open source. |
[4266.76 --> 4268.74] So there's all these positives to that. |
[4268.74 --> 4273.74] And they're also very, you know, open source centric and very giving in a lot of cases out |
[4274.32 --> 4274.68] there in the community. |
[4274.78 --> 4275.74] There's a lot of good that's done. |
[4276.26 --> 4276.66] Definitely. |
[4277.10 --> 4277.78] But you have to. |
[4277.90 --> 4278.12] I think there's a spectrum. |
[4278.18 --> 4281.14] But they're not calling themselves open source necessarily. |
[4281.36 --> 4281.86] No, they're not. |
[4282.42 --> 4288.34] That's where it gets icky is like, if you're BSL, okay, shout it proud, right? |
[4288.34 --> 4291.26] If you're open source officially, shout it proud. |
[4291.58 --> 4295.64] But don't play the game that's in the middle because now we're getting to where it's like, |
[4295.76 --> 4295.92] eh. |
[4296.22 --> 4298.14] And then there's people who really don't care. |
[4299.18 --> 4300.56] And there's people who really do care. |
[4300.74 --> 4304.02] And then in between, we all find ourselves, which way do you lean? |
[4305.04 --> 4308.62] And so it's hard to say the community accepts that because I think there's plenty of people |
[4308.62 --> 4310.82] in the community who don't, but there are plenty who are. |
[4311.20 --> 4312.48] And then there's those of us in between. |
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