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[3133.90 --> 3139.02] pitch like do you remember it when you pitched the svp of engineering back in the day like what you sold |
[3139.02 --> 3149.10] him yeah i i basically wrote a one and a half page document which said open source is so important even |
[3149.10 --> 3155.74] though we are a hardware company software is very important to flash and flash hardware that cannot |
[3155.74 --> 3165.18] function if stacks storage stacks and open source io does not know how to use the flash speed |
[3165.18 --> 3170.70] because most software stacks in those days were optimized for hard drives yeah and i said we need |
[3170.70 --> 3177.90] to change the software ecosystem around us if we need to get flash to be fully optimal working with |
[3177.90 --> 3184.38] software and i know the consumer group which works on usbs is is trying to do that i know |
[3184.38 --> 3189.58] our enterprise group is trying to do that this group is trying to do that we need to be involved |
[3189.58 --> 3196.30] in the linux foundation we need to work with the kernel we need so he said yes and we need to coordinate |
[3196.30 --> 3202.62] and leverage each other's work and we need to do it in a more intentional way rather than everybody going |
[3202.62 --> 3209.98] off and doing their own thing yeah and and with that we became members of the lf we started working more closely with |
[3209.98 --> 3218.30] uh all the storage subgroups and the kernel and uh started recruiting more open source friendly people we now |
[3218.30 --> 3227.18] started doing compliance better i started showing up at you know shows and huh it's a good sales pitch i would |
[3227.18 --> 3239.18] have bought it as well that was fun yeah that sounds like it was a very challenging coordination yeah it was because i still had to work with all these different divisions and |
[3239.18 --> 3245.82] understand their engagement with open source and understand their engagement with open source and where they were what their obstacles were |
[3245.82 --> 3250.06] how to what was the commonality across these teams |
[3250.06 --> 3259.42] etc i didn't own any resources i didn't have a team i was working with a cto and trying to help the company |
[3259.42 --> 3269.18] but now i have a team so it's it's so much nicer yeah to be able to scale and have really smart smart people |
[3269.18 --> 3278.54] at amazon uh who helped me uh get this work done yeah curious what your guidance is coming back to amazon |
[3279.10 --> 3284.54] i'm an engineer at amazon i have a library that i've written that facilitates something inside of our |
[3284.54 --> 3291.50] service it's generic i could open source it i come to whomever and say hey i like to open source this |
[3292.22 --> 3296.38] what is the guidance like you will do this you will license it that way it will be under this |
[3297.26 --> 3303.58] organization on github it will have this kind of a read me i mean do you guys yes step by step help |
[3303.58 --> 3309.50] people through this what does that guidance look like like what do you say they they typically have to |
[3309.50 --> 3317.90] write a document we we are big doc writers at amazon so they have to write a doc to get approval from |
[3317.90 --> 3325.58] their business their manager and their business owner that this is okay to open source and typically |
[3325.58 --> 3331.98] their business line lawyer may be involved in in approving that and then once it's approved they come to the |
[3332.78 --> 3338.46] open source program office we help them go through security review of the code we help them do |
[3338.46 --> 3344.94] something called uh it's an open source project called repo linter which looks through your code and |
[3344.94 --> 3353.26] make sure that you haven't got keys and uh proprietary information etc so it sanitizes it we help them |
[3353.26 --> 3362.30] attach an apache 2.0 license we make sure that they have a readme file code of conduct etc and then my i |
[3362.30 --> 3370.62] have a github team also who administers our external github they help them cut a ticket to open a repo put it |
[3370.62 --> 3379.42] in the right org we have a samples org we have a you know a lab org where all the lab papers are published |
[3380.30 --> 3386.22] and so they'll put it in the right org and they'll also monitor the org making sure it has a proper |
[3386.22 --> 3393.10] maintainer issues are not stale uh that we are you know being good citizens on on the project yeah |
[3393.10 --> 3399.58] cool that's a bit of a ceremony i would say right like it's yeah it's still somewhat imitating or |
[3399.58 --> 3405.26] intimidating to to have to go to your manager and be like hey this is cool because you kind of have to |
[3405.26 --> 3409.50] be vulnerable a little bit right i guess you are anyways when you're introducing code into the world |
[3409.50 --> 3414.06] you're being a little vulnerable with your your works but yeah yeah but like hey this thing is valuable |
[3414.06 --> 3419.98] enough then you said the business line attorney might have to approve it yes right and they still |
[3419.98 --> 3425.34] have to come to you for more stuff yeah it's a lot though still yet i think you have to be thoughtful |
[3425.34 --> 3431.26] if it's a a full library and a full project right you need to be thoughtful about what's the right |
[3431.26 --> 3437.10] thing to do and one of the right things to do is to resource it correctly if you're open sourcing it |
[3437.10 --> 3443.26] so that it can be maintained properly yeah very often teams will be very enthusiastic about |
[3443.26 --> 3449.58] open sourcing but not commit to maintaining it yeah and so we want to make sure that the business |
[3449.58 --> 3456.30] is fully behind it and that there is a good sound reason why it's the right thing to do |
[3457.50 --> 3462.38] it's like a liability in a way even too right and because liability in the fact that you have to |
[3463.02 --> 3468.14] show up it's one more thing to commit to it's one more yes that you don't that you can't say no to |
[3468.14 --> 3473.34] later on right it's a liability in that sense that from the business perspective as amazon you have to |
[3473.34 --> 3479.02] say yeah yeah this makes sense not just open source but for us to open source yes yes and and you know |
[3479.02 --> 3487.26] small little things that you want to release like a sample uh a sample code or something we really don't do |
[3487.26 --> 3494.14] that much due diligence yeah but if it's a full-blown project we've released bottle rocket and firecracker |
[3494.14 --> 3501.26] and finch and projects like that we really want to make sure we do it right we owe it to open source |
[3501.26 --> 3506.94] to do it right and not just throw it over the wall let's say there's a case where this library you |
[3506.94 --> 3513.66] written jared is generic it's not it's useful to some but y'all say well it makes sense to be open |
[3513.66 --> 3519.10] source but not from us do you allow that person to put it open source on their own if they've written |
[3519.10 --> 3524.06] it on company time or for company resources is there ever a time whenever it's like it's not |
[3524.06 --> 3529.02] right for us but it's okay for you i haven't seen a situation where we have said it's okay for you to |
[3529.02 --> 3535.90] go off and do it on your own because if it's done on company time it we need to make sure it's done right |
[3536.70 --> 3542.06] if it's if it's their pet project they've been working on in the weekend something to do with dairy |
[3542.06 --> 3548.86] farming or something different you'll never get into dairy farming but farming is getting into open source |
[3548.86 --> 3556.86] agriculture amazon might i mean you're becoming but there is uh a project in the linux foundation |
[3556.86 --> 3562.38] around farming is there yeah that's awesome yeah well i mean amazon is a i don't know if it's a |
[3562.38 --> 3567.26] conglomerate but you're definitely the organization expands into areas where you may have i mean whole |
[3567.26 --> 3572.22] foods is an example for sure where all of a sudden now you're a grocer and so maybe there are |
[3572.22 --> 3577.50] competitive things that you don't know about but you eventually will i don't know and and we need to |
[3577.50 --> 3585.02] do due diligence to make sure that it's not something that we need to care about uh what are |
[3585.02 --> 3590.94] some of the darlings of amazon open source like if you were to name like here's our biggest open |
[3590.94 --> 3596.54] source projects you you you listed a few there or like the ones that the ospo really loves like ah |
[3596.54 --> 3603.18] a shining example of amazon open source what are some examples i think if you go on uh aws open |
[3603.18 --> 3610.54] you'll see some of the projects listed there and blogs clearly bottle rocket firecracker finch |
[3611.10 --> 3618.06] uh real artos what else those are some of the ones that i can think of off the top of my head |
[3618.06 --> 3625.50] but we contribute to a lot of different projects yeah like openjdk we take what we do inside the |
[3625.50 --> 3633.66] company to harden it and to make it easy to use and we provide it as coreto which is an open free |
[3633.66 --> 3641.02] distribution for everybody to use so there's lots of really fun things like that that we contribute to |
[3641.82 --> 3647.02] well we appreciate you stopping by and chatting with us thank you |
[3655.50 --> 3662.14] what's up friends i'm here with vj raji ceo and founder of statsig where they help thousands of |
[3662.14 --> 3667.98] companies from startups to fortune 500s to ship faster and smarter with a unified platform for |
[3667.98 --> 3675.02] feature flags experimentation and analytics so vj what's the inception story of statsig why did you |
[3675.02 --> 3680.14] build this yeah so statsig started about two and a half years ago and before that i was at facebook |
[3680.14 --> 3686.62] for 10 years where i saw firsthand the set of tools that people or engineers inside facebook had access |
[3686.62 --> 3693.18] to and this breadth and depth of the tools that actually led to the formation of the canonical |
[3693.18 --> 3698.22] engineering culture that facebook is famous for and that also got me thinking about like you know |
[3698.22 --> 3703.66] how do you distill all of that and bring it out to everyone if every company wants to like build |
[3703.66 --> 3708.62] that kind of an engineering culture of building and shipping things really fast using data to make |
[3708.62 --> 3714.54] uh data informed decisions and then also informed like what do you need to go invest in next and all |
[3714.54 --> 3720.62] of that was like fascinating was really really powerful so so much so that i decided to quit facebook and start |
[3720.62 --> 3726.38] this company yeah so in the last two and a half years we've been building those tools that are helping |
[3726.38 --> 3732.70] engineers today to build and ship new features and then roll them out and as they're rolling it out also |
[3732.70 --> 3738.54] understand the impact of those features does it have bugs does it impact your customers in the way that you |
[3738.54 --> 3744.14] expected it or are there some side effects unintended side effects and knowing those things help you make |
[3744.14 --> 3750.38] your product better it's somewhat common now to hear this train of thought where an engineer developer |
[3750.38 --> 3757.42] was at one of the big companies facebook google airbnb you name it and they get used to certain tooling on the |
[3757.42 --> 3763.66] inside they get used to certain workflows certain developer culture certain ways of doing things tooling of |
[3763.66 --> 3771.58] course and then they leave and they miss everything they had while at that company and they go and |
[3771.58 --> 3776.06] they start their own company like you did what are your thoughts on that what are your thoughts on that |
[3776.06 --> 3782.70] kind of tech being on the inside of the big companies and those of us out here not in those companies without |
[3782.70 --> 3788.78] that tooling in order to get the same level of sophistication of tools that companies like facebook google airbnb |
[3788.78 --> 3793.26] and uber half you need to invest quite a bit you need to like take some of your best engineers and |
[3793.26 --> 3799.66] then go have them go build tools like this and not every company has the luxury to go do that right |
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