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**Andrew Rynhard:** Nice! |
**Gerhard Lazu:** So this is one of the Talos hosts. Three network cards. An IPMI, and two 1 gigabit ones. It's a beauty. So yeah, I'm a proper hardware nerd, as you can see... And I have it for a long, long time. So that's one of the hosts. Let me just put it down. |
**Andrew Rynhard:** Is that for your home's use cases? |
**Gerhard Lazu:** That is, yeah. |
**Andrew Rynhard:** Okay. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** \[31:40\] Ask me about my NixOS afterwards. I have another completely fanless system, AMD build, crazy NVMe drives, whatnot... Anyways, that's another story. And that is one of my Talos nodes. The other one is, again, a bare metal host, running in a data center... And I'm still missing a third one, to... |
Now, some people use Raspberry Pi's for this. I don't think many people use bare metal hosts. But what do you see the typical workload where Talos shines? |
**Andrew Rynhard:** It's certainly bare metal, and fast becoming edge. You've already spoken about Omni, and I'm sure we'll get into that at some point... But in particular, Talos in combination with Omni, edge is starting to become really, really powerful. And in fact, I think Talos, in those two use cases, bare metal... |
**Steve Francis:** Yeah. I mean, there's not so much of a compelling use case. If you're running in the cloud, you're probably running on EKS, or something like that. We certainly do have customers that say, "Alright, I'm in all the clouds, and I want to unify my management across them, and so I'm going to use Talos." ... |
**Andrew Rynhard:** Yeah, it makes sense. |
**Steve Francis:** But the other thing - you alluded to this before - Raspberry Pi's, we have lots of people in the Kubernetes at home community that run Talos on Raspberry Pi's, and other small SBCs. |
**Andrew Rynhard:** And they're a great community, too. They're a really great community; they give us great feedback all the time... I'm in their Discord; they're probably like "Oh, great. Why is this guy watching over everything? We can't talk about it..." I hope they do talk about it; that's where I get a lot of ins... |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Why do you think they use Raspberry Pi? Why is that so popular? |
**Steve Francis:** Well, it used to be cheap... \[laughs\] |
**Andrew Rynhard:** Yeah, exactly what I was gonna say. I would say affordability, some small footprint... They're not noisy... I have a supermicro in my closet, and I can't sleep with that thing on it. It's loud. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** I know what you mean. |
**Andrew Rynhard:** I love having the power, and it's fun, but I also like my sleep. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Yeah. Fanless. |
**Andrew Rynhard:** So something like a Raspberry -- yeah, fanless... And Raspberry Pi's are really, really great for that. And it's just kind of fun knowing that this small little board is running... Like, for me in particular too, just knowing it's running Talos Linux, a single Go binary and a kernel, and it's spinni... |
**Gerhard Lazu:** \[36:11\] Yeah. I mean now, if you want to get like a decent one, they're crazy expensive, by the time you add all the things. |
**Andrew Rynhard:** Yeah. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** I mean, it was cheaper for me to get like a fanless PSU, and an openbench, that to get all like the Raspberry Pi equivalent... And this thing aged really well. Again, it's going on 12 years, and it can still run pretty much anything. |
**Andrew Rynhard:** That's awesome. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** You know, eight cores... Okay, they're hyper-threaded. 32 gigs of RAM... Okay, it's DDR3, slightly slower, but put a fast SSD on it and you have two one-gigabit cards... I mean, there's no Raspberry Pi that has two -- so you can use two networks at the same time, which of course I would have, because.... |
I mean, the beginning was important for me. The beginning was taking something that was meaningful to me, and taking it into production, like my production, which right now, as I said, it's like nine Digital Ocean droplets. All of those can be collapsed in a single bare metal host. But you can't have just one, right? Y... |
**Andrew Rynhard:** Yeah, so the typical one that we recommend is Rook CEPH, largely because it's battle-tested, and we have some familiarity with it as well. We also recommend a couple of projects from OpenEBS, their Mayastor project, and their Jiva... |
**Steve Francis:** I pronounce it Jiva, but... |
**Andrew Rynhard:** Okay. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Like JIRA. JIRA, but there's like a V instead of an R. Yeah, JIRA. |
**Andrew Rynhard:** It's definitely Jiva for me now. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Okay, great. \[laughs\] I'm glad we settled that one. |
**Andrew Rynhard:** Anyways, those three in particular, but probably in that order, I would say. Actually, Jiva is probably becoming more popular than their Mayastor. So yeah, Rook CEPH... And there is a lot of people that think that because of the way Talos is designed, and its restrictions and whatnot, that storage i... |
And so there are some of them that do make these assumptions, that there's Bash, they can break out of their containers, but we're working to stop those, and we will never support those, in my opinion. So yeah, again, our goal is to get out of the way, and by and large, the CSIs will work. |
**Steve Francis:** Out of the way, but not to sacrifice security. |
**Andrew Rynhard:** Yeah, exactly. Yeah. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** \[40:04\] I know that security is a big deal in Talos... Can you tell us a bit more about that, Steve? |
**Steve Francis:** No. But Andrew can. \[laughter\] |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Okay, alright. That's great. Okay, so no, hang on, we have to find -- |
**Steve Francis:** I mean, Andrew can tell you all the drivers and parameters and everything, and when it comes to me, I can tell you it's very secure. \[laughter\] |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Correct. Okay. So it's a very high-level -- it's very compressed; that's great, right? Because when you talk to other CEOs, that's what they want to know. "Is it secure?" "Yes." "Great! Next point..." \[laughter\] Alright. Okay, so Andrew, you had a slip there, and I'm glad that you did... You mention... |
**Andrew Rynhard:** Oh. I did. Sorry. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** So Flannel, as far as I know, is the default CNI in Talos. Why have you chosen Flannel? |
**Andrew Rynhard:** Really, it's simple. I mean, it's gonna have the most coverage out of the box. It's just kind of works, and it doesn't have a lot of bells and whistles, and that's a good thing for the standard or default experience with Talos. Cyllium is also a very, very popular combination with Talos. If you're t... |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Absolutely. "How do I replace Flannel with Cyllium?" is my next question... \[laughs\] Let's skip to that part. |
**Andrew Rynhard:** We can. Yeah, that's simple. I mean, really, you just teach Talos "Hey, don't install Flannel, and instead use this URL to install the CNI, at the point in which CNI is required to be installed." And so you just host your manifest somewhere, Talos will pull them, install them, and basically replace ... |
We are thinking about having more native integrations in the future, but it's not on the near-term roadmap... Cyllium being a high, sort of a really interesting CNI that we could hopefully partner with even, but offer a native, out-of-the-box experience and just have it say "CNI = cyllium". And we have baked in manifes... |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Okay, that's a great question. What about -- again, still specifics, but we are very close to going high-level again... What about Metal LB? What about the load balancer? Because that's typically used in the context of bare metal. So what are your thoughts there? |
**Andrew Rynhard:** We recommend that all the time. I think MetalLB is a really great project. I love it. It's simple, it's well built, well designed, and we recommend it all the time with Talos. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Okay. |
**Andrew Rynhard:** Yeah, we talk about it all the time; I have nothing bad to say about it. It's just "Use it. It's great." |
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