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[2844.14 --> 2848.40] frameworks and whatever else we've got out there i think what you were mentioning before too where |
[2848.40 --> 2854.68] this isn't all positive things necessarily like this does add more toil this does add more things that |
[2854.68 --> 2859.70] you have to maintain and you shouldn't jump into that toil until you need it or are required to have |
[2859.70 --> 2864.02] it sometimes where it's like hey if i'm going to pin all of my dependencies and now i have |
[2864.02 --> 2870.26] 10 more prs a day or a week from my dependencies all shifting and changing and i need to update and |
[2870.26 --> 2874.60] test those things i can't i can't actually build new things into my product i'm just going to be |
[2874.60 --> 2880.48] maintaining it and maintaining the scorecard forever knowing when and how you should adopt those things is |
[2880.48 --> 2884.38] important and the federal government having a bill of materials and knowing where their software |
[2884.38 --> 2890.72] comes is a very good uh example of you know what i would love to for some of my tax dollars to go into |
[2890.72 --> 2895.54] them knowing what they're running and that's okay for me to say like actually that toil is necessary |
[2895.54 --> 2901.82] and and a good improvement on knowing at least the fact that like known vulnerabilities and the |
[2901.82 --> 2908.84] the places they're getting their software uh will meet some minimum bar of they're not running bash |
[2908.84 --> 2914.14] scheduler in their kubernetes clusters i sure hope not i have no scorecard and um those sorts of things |
[2914.14 --> 2919.06] are it's really important to know how it's being consumed and where it's actually important but |
[2919.06 --> 2924.58] yeah for for something like my personal repos um where i was like actually i don't i don't think |
[2924.58 --> 2929.54] i want to pin this because i'm okay if it breaks and i'm not i don't have an sla and i'm not getting |
[2929.54 --> 2934.16] paid for you know this code it's just me to experiment and learn and put something out there to share |
[2934.16 --> 2939.66] um that is okay to not have a scorecard see i think i'm almost the opposite i'm like i want to put |
[2939.66 --> 2944.92] this on everything so then i can like learn like you know just like i love reading about security and |
[2944.92 --> 2948.88] post-mortems but then now i'm just like i can actually figure out how all these things work |
[2948.88 --> 2953.94] in context like when you get to work in software you work in like your realm of software and you |
[2953.94 --> 2959.62] don't always get exposed to other things so it's so fun like finding ways to expose yourself to like |
[2959.62 --> 2964.56] ways that other people are using this to actually build things but like on a level where you can play |
[2964.56 --> 2968.94] with it on the weekends and at night you know what i mean so i think this is almost like fun because i |
[2968.94 --> 2973.12] can go implement that and be like oh that's what this does in real life you know like more than just |
[2973.12 --> 2979.32] reading about it in the book i have been archiving a whole bunch of my repos because i just got sick |
[2979.32 --> 2985.82] of the maintenance and i think it becomes one of those things of you have to be conscious about |
[2985.82 --> 2991.52] these are the active projects and i'm actually going to keep on going with the toil on them and |
[2991.52 --> 2996.98] these are the ones where it was interesting at a point in time but i'm ready to move on from |
[2996.98 --> 3002.70] that particular experiment and when you archive the repo of course it's still there |
[3002.70 --> 3009.30] but it's kind of just setting the flag as if to say yeah no longer active don't expect all of |
[3009.30 --> 3013.94] this to be up to date closes issues it closes all that yeah it's just like hey you know what like if |
[3013.94 --> 3019.34] you really like this you're welcome to the thing that i created i'm reading the book working in public |
[3019.34 --> 3023.38] right now i'm almost through with it and one of the things that they point out in there which i find |
[3023.38 --> 3029.28] really fascinating is that software in general like it doesn't take me more money to make an extra copy |
[3029.28 --> 3035.82] for it like anyone can go consume the code without needing to do anything it doesn't no bits are |
[3035.82 --> 3041.34] coming from my brain for them to like be able to consume that but what does cost me money is my |
[3041.34 --> 3047.00] attention and when they leave comments or issues or pull requests and especially if those things |
[3047.00 --> 3052.84] aren't necessarily meeting a certain standard of like formatting or right like they didn't format the |
[3052.84 --> 3057.38] code or they didn't give me the logs or something like that takes more for me to reproduce and then my |
[3057.38 --> 3063.90] attention is a finite amount of thing that exists that's kind of attached to that code in some way |
[3063.90 --> 3067.92] where it's like i learned this years ago but it's not something that i can keep giving attention to |
[3067.92 --> 3073.02] because i can't keep giving attention to the toys that i bought when i was five years old you know |
[3073.02 --> 3077.92] like sometimes i have to like give those things away at a garage sale and and at some point like my |
[3077.92 --> 3081.72] code is going through the same stages where it's like you know what like i played with that enough i learned |
[3081.72 --> 3087.22] enough from it now i need someone else if they want it i can't give any more attention to it and i find that |
[3087.22 --> 3091.38] really fascinating how they point that out in the book about just like hey you know like this is the |
[3091.38 --> 3096.60] expensive thing in these code repos and how they exist because yeah software the bits we can replicate |
[3096.60 --> 3102.10] over and over again without costing anything but once you start pulling attention from the maintainers |
[3102.10 --> 3106.84] or from the people who write it or may you know do anything around the project that attention is finite |
[3106.84 --> 3112.50] for people and you have to really guard that it's also part of like the culture of software though |
[3112.50 --> 3116.94] because we're always like this is the only job that you do your job for fun on the weekends you know |
[3116.94 --> 3121.50] what i mean like you're you're it's just like expected that you build projects all weekend and |
[3121.50 --> 3126.60] like you know that like you're constantly like how many people have bought domains created things and |
[3126.60 --> 3132.90] it's like at some point like where do you get that work-life balance or just kind of like when do you |
[3132.90 --> 3137.08] decide that you're done with that project you know or but i mean it's not just software though right |
[3137.08 --> 3141.70] because like i i thought i was gonna be a mechanic my entire life i love cars i was working on cars and i |
[3141.70 --> 3145.84] would work on cars on the weekend right like i would go like i'd get paid to work on cars and then i'd go home |
[3145.84 --> 3151.66] and i'd work on cars and that's what i liked doing but i wasn't publicly visible to people that was |
[3151.66 --> 3157.14] like i'm just spending time in my garage and that's okay because it is still my guarded area of like |
[3157.14 --> 3160.84] you know what like i don't have to answer questions someone else they in the book also they point out |
[3160.84 --> 3165.00] like christmas lights for in the united states like it's a big thing like you decorate the outside of |
[3165.00 --> 3170.18] your house for a holiday which is weird to kind of do because you're just like showing off like at some |
[3170.18 --> 3173.90] point like oh maybe this is a competition i don't know but like someone can drive by my house and |
[3173.90 --> 3178.14] they can look at my christmas lights and that's okay like that's what i want definitely make it a |
[3178.14 --> 3182.32] competition some people you absolutely like you can go there's there's lots of negatives and |
[3182.32 --> 3187.46] consumerism in that but also for like me to like i like how my house looks when it's decorated and i'm |
[3187.46 --> 3193.00] gonna spend a day or half a day decorating my house and then anyone that drives by it's free for |
[3193.00 --> 3198.44] them to look at they can come i want them to come drive by and see the cool thing that i created |
[3198.44 --> 3204.32] out of my creativity and budget and whatever in my time but at the end of the day like if they |
[3204.32 --> 3208.62] want me to make changes to it like no one's knocking on my door and saying like hey can you |
[3208.62 --> 3212.54] get the bigger snowman next time or can you like move this light because i don't like how that looks |
[3212.54 --> 3216.78] like but that's how software works right like an open source like i put something out there so i was |
[3216.78 --> 3221.66] like actually like this flag is bad can you go change that for me like no like this is not this is |
[3221.66 --> 3227.32] mine right like this is i decorated this i built it and and i don't really care like to take outside |
[3227.32 --> 3232.30] contributions right now but there is this like assumption in open source that you can just go |
[3232.30 --> 3236.12] and do that because you're just like well it's open source i'm gonna go at an issue and say like |
[3236.12 --> 3240.80] please change this output to be something different to fit my needs i'm like no go fork it and do it |
[3240.80 --> 3244.14] yourself like well no that's maintenance for them and they don't want the maintenance right because but |
[3244.14 --> 3249.70] my house no one has ever knocked on my door to say please change your lights and and it's just like |
[3249.70 --> 3254.20] a different mindset of how we treat open source and in this case like a scorecard gives them the |
[3254.20 --> 3260.22] visibility that like i care about this thing i'm gonna do enough to provide this information to you |
[3260.22 --> 3265.36] of here's the basics and we do care about this we're gonna try to improve it or at least keep |
[3265.36 --> 3271.08] maintain this number we don't ever want probably to drop but it does open it up enough for someone |
[3271.08 --> 3275.32] getting started to say hey i actually want to contribute in this i want to learn in this area |
[3275.32 --> 3280.48] would it be okay if i increased your score in these areas or even just giving them a way to |
[3280.48 --> 3286.54] measure themselves against someone else right like oh that other repo has an eight what would it take |
[3286.54 --> 3290.14] me to get to an eight i don't know like let's go let's go look at that and it does give you that |
[3290.14 --> 3294.92] comparison as well to know like just a baseline of i mean like grades at school are the same way |
[3294.92 --> 3299.28] right like it's like oh i have i have straight b's is that good i don't know it's how much how many |
[3299.28 --> 3303.28] letters in the alphabet like is this out of 26 letters i don't know it's actually you know just five |
[3303.28 --> 3307.58] letters we're good you know just try to get the a's next time um and then this just gives you that |
[3307.58 --> 3313.58] sort of comparison level to let you try to improve and to know where you're not doing necessarily the |
[3313.58 --> 3318.80] best practices or or need some help i think it's also like it just is such a cool learning opportunity |
[3318.80 --> 3326.10] and a way for new people to get in that like it's so cool that you're solving multiple problems you're |
[3326.10 --> 3331.46] solving the problem of better security and giving like that visibility and credit to motivate people to |
[3331.46 --> 3337.10] have better security but you're also kind of allowing an in for new people in this world that |
[3337.10 --> 3342.08] has a lot of gatekeeping so it's really cool that you're solving multiple problems with one thing |
[3342.08 --> 3348.46] yeah and i think the other thing i'd throw in here is as i've come to know some people in open ssf and |
[3348.46 --> 3356.32] the community around it they're just super helpful lovely folk that are really interested in raising all |
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