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• Discussion of Justin and Autumn's personal experiences with Gareth |
• Description of the Salt program and its history |
• Gareth's background and how he got involved with Salt |
• Story about how Gareth was let go from his position as a core maintainer due to the acquisition by Broadcom |
• Gareth contributed to Salt by adding support for Ubuntu and Debian operating systems |
• Salt is a configuration management system with remote execution capabilities, using YAML states |
• Ansible is also a configuration management tool, but with slower remote execution compared to Salt |
• Gareth used Salt in various jobs due to its scalability and speed, often combining it with other tools like Puppet |
• Gareth's experience contributing to Salt was his first large-scale Python project, requiring him to adapt to writing for multiple consumers |
• The company behind Salt started as an independent open-source project before being bought by another company, which may have affected the project's development |
• The creation of popular DevOps tools like Puppet, Chef, Ansible, and Salt was often driven by individuals who were frustrated with existing solutions and wanted to create their own. |
• The acquisition of these companies by larger corporations has led to concerns about the future of open-source software and the potential for projects to be shelved or changed in ways that harm the community. |
• The ability of communities to fork projects and continue development independently can help mitigate this risk, but may also lead to conflicts over licensing and ownership. |
• The trend towards cloud computing and multicloud environments has raised questions about the role of open-source software in these ecosystems, with some arguing that more open-source solutions are needed to promote flexibility and portability. |
• The challenges of cloud and on-prem integration for startups |
• Containers and Kubernetes as solutions for portable artifacts |
• The role of foundations in protecting against legal issues and promoting collaboration among companies |
• Open governance models and the importance of equal representation for all contributors |
• The shift from hobbyist projects to professionally maintained open source projects with significant infrastructure costs |
• Contributing to an open source project is no longer a guarantee for getting a job |
• Open source communities have become more diverse and accepting of non-coding contributions |
• It's not always easy to get started with open source due to barriers such as trust, resources, and community involvement |
• Welcoming communities are key to attracting contributors and creating a positive experience |
• The Kubernetes community is highlighted as one of the most welcoming and friendly in the industry |
• Community and collaboration are becoming increasingly important factors in open source participation |
• Changes in online culture and the shift from "hanging out" to working for companies for free |
• The impact of open source and infrastructure changes on community dynamics |
• The nostalgia for past online platforms like Twitter, Tumblr, and IRC |
• The importance of community-run moderation and investment |
• The shift towards closed-source systems and the loss of open ecosystems |
• Current online experiences, including LinkedIn and BlueSky |
• Concerns about LinkedIn becoming too social media-like |
• Critique of overused phrases in online posts, such as "I'm excited to announce" |
• Importance of having content on a website rather than relying on walled gardens like email or social media |
• Discussion of the limitations and benefits of email storage in the past |
• Abstraction and its potential pitfalls, including hiding relevant concepts and setting false expectations |
• Critique of the overuse and misuse of new technologies, such as serverless computing |
• The challenges of serverless computing in large enterprises |
• Over-reliance on automation and abstraction can lead to a lack of understanding of how infrastructure works |
• The "mess around and find out" era of tech, where companies try to implement new technologies without proper planning or investment in human expertise |
• The importance of humans in using AI and automation tools effectively and safely |
• The need for investing in junior developers and training existing employees to handle the gap between senior engineers retiring and being replaced by younger professionals |
• The importance of explaining complex concepts in a simple way for learning and knowledge retention |
• The benefits of having new people contribute to documentation and the limitations of relying on original authors to write it |
• The value of onboarding processes and getting feedback from beginners to identify gaps and improve products |
• The impact of losing experience and knowledge as senior engineers retire or leave the industry, and the need for juniors to take their place |
• The idea of "retro" episodes featuring people who worked with old technology in the past and can share their experiences. |
**Justin Garrison:** Hello and welcome to Ship It, the podcast all about what happens after you git push. I'm your host, Justin Garrison, and with me as always is Autumn Nash. How's it going, Autumn? |
**Autumn Nash:** Good. How are you? |
**Justin Garrison:** I hear it's humid right now in Seattle? |
**Autumn Nash:** Um, you know we're not used to sun. I mean, I don't know if it's humid versus other places, but it's 78 today... |
**Justin Garrison:** But you have six weeks of sunlight, right? You need to take advantage. |
**Autumn Nash:** I'm a vampire. Oh, my God. Outside there's sun. |
**Justin Garrison:** I guess if you want clouds most of the year, when it comes out, you have to kind of acclimate back into it. |
**Autumn Nash:** Yeah. |
**Justin Garrison:** For today's show we have Gareth Greenaway, who is a core maintainer for the Salt program, a configuration management program, open source, written in Python, and so we talk to him all about -- we kind of went all over the place, which was fun. It started off with "How do you get started?" and then ... |
**Autumn Nash:** Gareth is one of the nicest people... For all the cool things that he's done, he's just really humble, you know? He doesn't talk down to people... |
**Justin Garrison:** Well, except for the fact that he's 6'7". |
**Autumn Nash:** Okay, he talks down in a literal way, but not a smart people way... When I was standing next to him, I was going "You're so very tall..." He's a very kind, tall person. |
**Justin Garrison:** Exactly. When I first met him, he was very welcoming, just being able to talk to him, and just sit down and talk about anything, really. It's "Oh, is technology cool?" "Yeah, maybe. But what else are you doing?" He's very approachable and fun. Yeah. |
**Autumn Nash:** Yes. He's one of those people who's a legit dope human, and not just for his technical contributions; the actual, just being a good human, that happens to be smart. And I think people him are what make the Kubernetes system/Linux area a really cool community. |
**Justin Garrison:** Yeah, for sure. And having him involved in conferences, and just being available in places that I've seen him... He lives in SoCal, so I've seen him around at meetups and whatnot over the years, because we've both been in the area for so long. It's always nice to see "Oh, if Gareth is there, then t... |
**Autumn Nash:** Dude, that is so true. There's some people that you know that are little beacons of light in tech... And if they're involved, you'll probably want to be there in that room, or at that conference. Even when I'm looking for conferences to speak at, or to book, or whatever, when there's certain people the... |
**Justin Garrison:** I had so much FOMO from Render... I wish I was there. |
**Autumn Nash:** The Render FOMO was real. It was so real. |
**Justin Garrison:** Yeah. I do zero -- well, I do some JavaScript, but I do not do it with a smile on my face. But I wanted to be a part of that community, and be in Atlanta. It looked amazing. So let's go ahead and jump into the interview with Gareth, and then we will talk to everyone after. |
**Break:** \[07:53\] |
**Justin Garrison:** Alright, welcome to the show, Gareth Greenaway. Thank you so much for joining us. |
**Gareth Greenaway:** Yeah, thanks for having me. Glad to be here. |
**Autumn Nash:** It's a Scale reunion! |
**Justin Garrison:** Gareth, you and I have known each other for a little while now, because -- just through the Scale conference, right? We met -- I don't know how long ago. |
**Gareth Greenaway:** Yeah, it's been a while. I think your first Scale was Scale... |
**Justin Garrison:** 9? |
**Gareth Greenaway:** 9. Okay. |
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