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**Justin Garrison:** I think that wraps up a lot of this too, where back in the day, open source - you would do it because it was fun. And you would find people that were having fun on the internet, and they were welcoming, and you would join them. |
**Autumn Nash:** Yes... And tech is not fun right now. |
**Justin Garrison:** A lot of it has changed, because it has shifted from this "Wow, I'm just hanging out at night, having fun hacking on something" to "I'm working for a company for free." |
**Autumn Nash:** That's true. Because think about what we were talking about with Rich, and even in other episodes... It was stuff that people just did in their free time, and they're like "Oh, my God --" |
**Justin Garrison:** Yeah. They had fun. You were scratching your own itch, you were learning something... And you were just hanging out, having fun. You become friends, and I have so many internet friends from projects over the years... I'm just like "Well, no, we had fun online." |
**Autumn Nash:** Someone on Twitter said their wife asked him if it was their real friend or their internet friend, and he was like "What do you mean...?!" I felt that so hard... |
**Justin Garrison:** No, I have a code for this... With my wife, I call any internet friend -- if I haven't met them in person, they're a friendly, versus a friend. |
**Autumn Nash:** See? This proves Justin's one-liners. |
**Justin Garrison:** We're like "You need to tell me if you know this person in physical -- in meatspace, and you've known them, or they're just someone you met online." I'm like "Well, I've known them for a long time. I've known them online." But it's a big change right now. Today, in 2024, it's not about going online... |
**Autumn Nash:** It's sad, dude... It's just made the vibe horrible. But you know what, though? Maybe we've just figured the secret out. Community is what's going to save open source. They're gonna be the only projects that people show up to. |
**Justin Garrison:** For me personally, I have just shifted to "I'm just gonna have fun on the internet, and if other people come have fun with me, it's great. Let's all have fun on the internet. And if interests change, it's okay." People can come and go, and everyone can still have fun, in certain areas... Which is, ... |
**Autumn Nash:** That's sure. |
**Justin Garrison:** It's the place that I'm spending my time. Twitter, and Mastodon, and all these other places, I'm like "No, I'm not having fun there." |
**Autumn Nash:** It's still weird. |
**Justin Garrison:** It is very weird. |
**Autumn Nash:** You know what I mean? It's not like -- I wouldn't even say corporate-y. It's not that perfectionist of the internet. It's not where people just show up to just make everybody miserable. Twitter, I swear to God, every time a woman that's in tech goes on Twitter, somebody just wants to show up to have a ... |
**Justin Garrison:** \[43:53\] It's very weird, and it's so fun. And it's just so strange. |
**Autumn Nash:** It's so fun. Yes. And people are -- they're being their weird self that we all want to be a part of. It's like finding your people, your community. But naturally. |
**Justin Garrison:** And a lot of that comes down to moderation, because those are all pieces of this puzzle, where BlueSky has the best individual moderation that exists. And that's what used to be in AOL chat rooms, in IRC... |
**Autumn Nash:** I also think it's just like -- it's the people that wanna get away from the other stuff. You know what I mean? It's the people that are there, and it's attracting a certain type of people, maybe... |
**Gareth Greenaway:** I mean, that is what originally sites Twitter and Facebook were. |
**Autumn Nash:** I know. I'm so sad. I love Twitter. I've met some of the best -- it's just, I don't know how to even mourn what Twitter was, because it's like "How do you replicate that?" |
**Gareth Greenaway:** I mean, Facebook -- when Facebook first started launching... I don't remember if MySpace was still kind of the hot site. I think it was... |
**Autumn Nash:** That's how I learned how to code... |
**Gareth Greenaway:** Yeah. |
**Justin Garrison:** HTML. |
**Gareth Greenaway:** A lot of people did. You could view source, you could copy-paste it, and then modify it to your heart's content. But Facebook was the place you went, because you were -- honestly, your parents weren't there. Your relatives weren't there. |
**Autumn Nash:** Yes...! |
**Gareth Greenaway:** But your friends were there. |
**Autumn Nash:** That's why I loved Tumblr and Twitter. |
**Gareth Greenaway:** Once everyone started showing up on Facebook, it was like "Okay, we need somewhere new." And that's what Twitter was, for the longest time. And then all the advertisements and the companies started showing up, and... |
**Justin Garrison:** But I mean, just like open source, you're not writing code for a company for free anymore. All these social networks turned into -- we all realized that we were working for them for free. We were making content. |
**Autumn Nash:** Yeah. We were their content creators. |
**Justin Garrison:** And that was why I left X. Nilay Patel on the Vergecast said "If you are still on X, you are working for Elon Musk for free." And I was like "I will not do that. I cannot not do that." |
**Autumn Nash:** And you're not wrong. It's just like, man, how do we get -- there's no other point where we're all together. There's no other -- and the visibility of being able to find other people... It's such a good way to passively learn things, but now it's just like -- it makes me sad every time I log on. |
**Justin Garrison:** They're all businesses. |
**Autumn Nash:** I'm just like "What are they going to say now?" |
**Justin Garrison:** Yes. And that is where community-run things -- you have to have that investment. Because IRC servers back in the day - that was someone's computer in their basement. "I'm the sysadmin for this. I'm going to be on call." And for a lot of people, they don't want to do that anymore. They don't have ti... |
The younger generation doesn't know what an open ecosystem is like. I'm 40, and in that 30 to 40, 50 range we had this wave of projects in infrastructure that was open. And we could access those things, and we could run them, and we could invest our time. Now everything has been closed source, and it's all Instagram, a... |
**Gareth Greenaway:** Currently, I'm spending time -- and I don't know if I would say having fun, but I'm spending time on LinkedIn. Because I'm actively looking for my next adventure in the realm of employment. |
**Justin Garrison:** And LinkedIn has gotten a little wild, too. |
**Gareth Greenaway:** LinkedIn - it's funny. I have noticed, since looking - and I'm not the only one; a lot of people are looking for their next adventure, apparently... But I've noticed that traffic and activity on LinkedIn has definitely picked up. I suspect a lot of that has to do with people who share your feeling... |
**Justin Garrison:** Yeah. I mean, it's still a lot of people that start their posts that says "I'm excited to announce." That is still 50% of what I see, is people excited... And that is so overused, and kind of annoying at this point. But yes, I agree. |
**Gareth Greenaway:** The ones that get me are the ones where it looks like it's a short couple sentences -- |
**Justin Garrison:** And you expand it... |
**Gareth Greenaway:** \[unintelligible 00:47:54.28\] and it's like "Oh, no. This should have been a blog post that you linked to, and then I could decide..." |
**Justin Garrison:** \[48:01\] I still think more people should own a website and write a blog. Just put it out there on a blog post. It doesn't have to be -- you can relink it to somewhere else. But the social media -- don't write the content and let it exist in these walled gardens by themselves. That's why I stopped... |
**Gareth Greenaway:** Especially if someone goes to -- which I do; I'm actually due to do it again... Purge your email inbox every few months, and get rid of stuff... Like, "Okay, I haven't looked at that in years. I don't need that." |
**Justin Garrison:** I do think that back in the day email, before Gmail, when things were limited to like 10 megs or 100 megs of storage was actually probably a good thing... Because now that we have infinite storage, it gets abused so much, by every newsletter that we never check, and it's just like "Hey, you know wh... |
**Gareth Greenaway:** Yeah, you had the motivation to keep your inbox down to a manageable amount. |
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