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**Adam Jacob:** I don't know what it would be, but I want that. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Is that what you're building? Are you building that? |
**Adam Jacob:** No, I'm building System Initiative \[unintelligible 00:39:18.28\] I was just thinking about it. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** But you seemed like you were pretty passionate about that problem, so you might -- |
**Adam Jacob:** I'm passionate about all these problems. I want to build all these things. I want to build the journalctl bot. I'm into all of it. |
**Jerod Santo:** I'm with you on that, I think a lot of the consternation, I'll call it, out there, and that Adam is humanizing for us in human form here, is that the same people that have brought us the current technique and techniques are saying they have AGI techniques basically locked in their basements until Q1 of... |
**Adam Jacob:** They don't. |
**Jerod Santo:** I mean, aren't they, though? I mean, that's pretty much what Anthropic's CEO, and Sam Altman is talking about... |
**Adam Jacob:** Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're all talking about it, because it's really good business to talk about it. |
**Jerod Santo:** And they just keeping those deals done, you know? |
**Adam Jacob:** \[40:03\] They keep getting those deals done... We keep paying for those growth multiples... |
**Jerod Santo:** \[laughs\] Right. |
**Adam Jacob:** You know what I mean? And do I think it's a dangerous game to be promising AGI? I do. I do. I do. And I think that could go bad. And also, I don't know... Is it -- it's probably fine. \[laughs\] |
**Jerod Santo:** Well, I just think that these two things juxtaposed, is "It's not a bubble", and the people in the people non-bubble are promising a thing that you don't think they can deliver on. I mean, to me that sounds like -- |
**Adam Jacob:** I think most of what people are buying isn't that right now. No one's buying AGI... No one's going to -- |
**Jerod Santo:** Superintelligence. They changed the word. |
**Adam Jacob:** You're not buying superintelligence either... |
**Jerod Santo:** \[laughs\] |
**Adam Jacob:** There's no superintelligence to buy. |
**Jerod Santo:** I'm buying a -- what do you call it...? |
**Adam Jacob:** Right now you're buying access to the LLMs. That's what you're buying. And not having to run the inference on your own. |
**Jerod Santo:** A genius golden retriever on acid. That's what I'm paying for. |
**Adam Jacob:** Yeah, that's basically what you're buying now. That's right. |
**Jerod Santo:** \[laughs\] That's good enough for me, by the way. |
**Adam Jacob:** Well, what's amazing is the genius golden retriever on acid, if you build the system around its existence, will dramatically outperform. It's crazy. We had somebody, they had a production outage. They had no data in System Initiative. The prompt they put in was "I'm having a production outage. Here's th... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Never again. Never again. |
**Adam Jacob:** Never again. |
**Jerod Santo:** Never make the same mistake twice. But when I talk about it not being a bubble - and I'm not defending one way or the other, the bubbly position, but I think the argument that says it isn't is the one that says "Look, are we in a hype cycle?" Yes. Is that hype cycle reaching beyond its abilities? Yes. ... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Here's the thing, though. Here's the thing. We just went from the horse to the car. That's what we did in our time. We're living through the invention of the car. |
**Adam Jacob:** Yeah. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** It's going to be crazy. |
**Adam Jacob:** It's going to be crazy. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** It's going to change everything. |
**Adam Jacob:** And of course, we don't know -- |
**Adam Stacoviak:** And there'll be hype everywhere. Of course. |
**Adam Jacob:** And we don't know what to do with it. We're like "There'll be flying cars. There'll be space cars. What if all the cars were underground, in car tunnels, and then the whole world could be a park?" I don't know. I'm sure we had crazy ideas. Ad yeah, what I'm ready for as a practical technologist... You k... |
**Jerod Santo:** \[44:12\] Unless you have AGI in your basement, locked up, like Sam Altman does. Then he knows. |
**Adam Jacob:** If Sam Altman had AGI locked up in his basement, Sam Altman would be doing better at delivering LLMs to us. Right? |
**Jerod Santo:** Well said. |
**Adam Jacob:** If Sam Altman had a secret AGI, ChatGPT 5 would have been a lot better. |
**Jerod Santo:** Well, that's the other thing, that people are saying on the other side, is like "Well, they aren't getting that much better, that much faster." But they are stinking good, I'll tell you that much. |
**Adam Jacob:** But you also don't need them to. Because what we're learning about these systems is that the less you use them, the better you are. |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah, you build the software systems around them. |
**Adam Jacob:** Yes. It's what you plug into them that matters. |
**Jerod Santo:** Right. |
**Adam Jacob:** And so the first stage of this was make the LLM do everything. That's why we were all like "Make it do math." What a ridiculous thing to ask it to do. It's always going to be awful at f\*\*\*\*n math. The technology is anti-math. It's like "Oh, what am I? Random and non-deterministic." So why do I care ... |
**Jerod Santo:** Brilliant. |
**Adam Jacob:** Because you know what it doesn't do? Hallucinate numbers that it received after it received them from a tool. I've never seen that happen. I've never seen it be like "Oh, here's the number", and then it's like "Oh, I changed it for you. It's actually 72." I'm sure it happens, but it's not very often. Bu... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** How has this changed how you think of things, Adam? Is there a fundamental paradigm shift in your brain? |
**Adam Jacob:** I think it's convinced me that more of the systems that we architect around the LLM will change. So if you think about the interfaces that we provide to those systems, they're like weird anti APIs. So the API that I would give to you as a software developer, that you would be pleased with, is not the AP... |
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