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**Adam Stacoviak:** I can share with you my -- it was just intense, man. This is an intense process. I saw it write a bunch of code, I could see all the code, but there's no application to be viewed. |
**Chris Anderson:** So basically copy that prompt you did and just make a new one. That's what we learned from vibe coding. Don't go iterate on something unless you're already stoked about it. |
**Jerod Santo:** Right. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. |
**Jerod Santo:** It's just cheaper to throw it all away and start fresh, right? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah, right? I mean, when it's just spoken word, it's like "Let's try again and just tweak a little bit", you know? That's kind of cool, though. |
**Jerod Santo:** That's kind of what I do. Remember with Google searches -- remember when you used to google things? Some people will put in a search and then they'll read the results, and if there's not the right answer, they'll go to like page two, page three, page four... You know, like an infidel. I just research, ... |
**Chris Anderson:** Yeah, we're considering seriously doing that for you. We may as well just vibe three of them in parallel and let you pick the best... Although every bit of complexity we add is going to take the simplest user and turn them away. |
**Jerod Santo:** \[29:57\] And cost. I mean, that's what Sora does, which is Open AI's video tool. You can pick how many different iterations that you want, and it will make two or four or six. And obviously, you have to have the tokens, and stuff... But especially with creative tools, where it's like "I would like to ... |
**Chris Anderson:** The fun part is looking at how much better Claude 4 is than even 3.7. Or if I switch it over to Codex Mini, then I'll get like an app that works great, but isn't showboating at all. Like, GPT models make these lean apps, with no extra stuff... And Claude 4 is going to have your backgrounds, transpar... |
**Jerod Santo:** I think Claude 4 - and I don't have any personal reason to say this in terms of like we're not making money by promoting Anthropic... But Claude 4 is just I think good enough now that it's sold me on the entire thing... Whereas up until now I've been very skeptical, because of the results have been so ... |
**Chris Anderson:** Oh, yeah... |
**Jerod Santo:** Because he's such a nerd for every new model that comes out that he tells them all to do the exact same thing, which is to write a code that produces an SVG drawing of a pelican riding on a bicycle. And he documents that, of course, because he documents everything. And he's just showed the progress; he... |
**Chris Anderson:** That black screen that you ran into, Adam - the other one that I'm just still trying to teach Claude to never do again... For some reason, it loves to give you buttons with white text on white background. |
**Jerod Santo:** Dark patterns. The opposite of dark patterns. Light patterns. Did you get better results this time, Adam, or are you still spinnin'? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** It's still working on it. It's a little slow, for some reason. It's taking its time. |
**Jerod Santo:** It's bleeding edge. |
**Chris Anderson:** How many lines of code does it want to do? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** At this point it's trying again... So I got two black screens in a row, so I wasn't sure... |
**Jerod Santo:** What are you trying to build? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Okay, so I told this thing "I want to golf with friends. Help me create a tee time and invite folks to it." So "Hey, Jerod, I'm going to golf this Saturday, at this time. You're invited to my tee time." And you can join, kind of thing. So that's -- oh, it finally did something. It's got a golf tee t... |
**Jerod Santo:** This is vibing, man. |
**Chris Anderson:** Right? |
**Jerod Santo:** So do you guys have a system prompter? I'm not sure if you have some sort of scaffolding in there, that when we write our prompts and put it into vibes, it does more than just that, right? |
**Chris Anderson:** The whole thing's open source, so you can go on GitHub on the Vibes DIY org and get into the repo prompts.ts and see what we actually do. But it's fairly simple... I mean, as I was mentioning earlier, I was one of the coauthors on the O'Reilly ChatGPT shortcuts book, and what I learned from that - a... |
**Jerod Santo:** \[34:13\] And he's having a \[unintelligible 00:34:15.27\] you know? |
**Chris Anderson:** Here's my golf tracker... \[laughter\] |
**Jerod Santo:** Oh, nice. Did you do that one just now, as Adam was doing one, or is that -- |
**Chris Anderson:** Yeah, after I heard what he was doing... And I think my prompt was just -- |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Let's see your prompt. What is it again? Show it to me? |
**Chris Anderson:** I said "golf with friends." |
**Jerod Santo:** That's all you said? |
**Chris Anderson:** Yup. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Oh, my gosh... Okay, so how do you share that with me, so I can see it, or play with it, or remix and revibe? |
**Jerod Santo:** Pass the address into the chat. We have a chat here. |
**Chris Anderson:** Right? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** That's how it works? |
**Chris Anderson:** So again, we don't deploy. You press the purple button, the big button, and now you publish it, and... I was getting into this a minute ago, I guess I distracted myself... So when it publishes, all it does is take, like, let's say the 475 lines of JSX and put it in a CloudFlare KV associated with th... |
**Jerod Santo:** Alright, I just loaded up Adam's golf tee time organizer app. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Is it working? |
**Jerod Santo:** I mean, it rendered... I don't know if it's actually working. I think it has a white button with white text, as Chris knew it would... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Something's going wrong here, because I can't get it to load for me. |
**Jerod Santo:** But I can create a new tee time... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Oh, sweet. |
**Jerod Santo:** Oh, I see some. Sunnyvale Golf & Club. I can join that round. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. Pop your name in there. Boom. |
**Jerod Santo:** Okay, I'm joining that round... My name is Jerod, thank you very much... And Confirmed. Jordan Phillips is going, and Jerod is going. So... Where is it storing that information, Chris? Where does the data that I enter in go? |
**Chris Anderson:** So all of that stuff goes into Fireproof, which has got that Merkle CRDT. And that means that it just goes in your browser local storage. The way Fireproof works is every database operation is a diff, like in Git. It is end-to-end encrypted and then written to - we use IndexedDB in the browser, beca... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** It's all on the web platform. |
**Chris Anderson:** \[37:58\] Yeah, yeah. None of the people who don't know what code is, who've never deployed anything - they can't depend on any setup. I like to say, if you don't know what an API is, then I'm certainly not going to ask you to do an API key. |
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