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**Chris Anderson:** It matters that we don't get it wrong... And then the more we think about it, the more excited we get. So if you look at what it would take to build something with a vibe coding tool and a database backend - those are both kind of like maybe just to get started; table stakes, $25 a month, $25 a mont... |
$5 a month gets you started. If you want to go over that, there's a meter which is competitively priced. And then where we see this going in the long run is almost like this YouTube-style model, where, say -- first, think about a corporate case. |
Think about some big marketing agency that builds like "See our product in your house. Replace the Statue of Liberty with our product", whatever it is. "Take a photo, put us in there." You get 100,000 views on that from your email list... You're probably writing us a check for $20,000 or something on the tokens it cons... |
**Jerod Santo:** Does that "Turn your house into a video game" level thing exist? Because I want that. |
**Chris Anderson:** No, somebody's got to make it. I mean, why wouldn't it exist? |
**Jerod Santo:** That's such a good idea. |
**Chris Anderson:** Right? Gaussian splat is cheap now, running on the phone. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** How would you do that though? Would you just walk around your house just like taking a video, and uploading it? |
**Jerod Santo:** I don't know. |
**Chris Anderson:** We like to say that the best we can hope to do -- you know, we're kind of grizzled, old vets of the industry. The best we can do is invent the electric guitar. It's up for the kids to invent rock and roll. |
**Jerod Santo:** That's like the best non-answer ever, right? He's like "You guys figure it out." |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Alright... |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah. |
**Chris Anderson:** \[49:51\] I mean, we've got roadmap features that expand. So everything I've talked about is really just the browser runtime. It can do a lot. It's underutilized, especially for people who really haven't pushed it to its limits yet. But roadmap features is something we learned from the CouchDB ecosy... |
Same thing, just -- if you wanted to today, you could stand up a CloudFlare worker that subscribes to that golf database. And when somebody puts in a new tee time, you could get a push notification. Our roadmap brings that to the masses by making it so there's just a backend.js that we also let the model write. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. See, I wouldn't have even thought about that, I guess... It'd be helpful i there's a guide. "Here's the next step you can take." They mention different features that can come, but not what you mentioned there, which is like push notifications. That'd be kind of cool. |
**Chris Anderson:** Right. And there's no end to that kind of stuff. And we really -- essentially, if I think about the job you're hiring that backend.js to do, it's the stuff that's essentially hiding API secrets. You can't just publish the way that you send your emails, your Postmark key to the world. You can't put i... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** What happens when it's successful? What is a year, two years from now -- like, how does this change things? What is vibes.diy a year and a half from now? |
**Chris Anderson:** Well, now that it's easier to make an app than a TikTok, we picture people swiping right on the good apps, and long-pressing to launch it, and having essentially their phone blow up in their hand when their app gets popular. So the same thing you see with an Insta, or a TikTok or a YouTube, where it... |
When I was first starting coding, the coolest thing in the world was just to change one line in your HTML and then hit Refresh and there it is. So educating people how that feels, and then letting them share that with their friends... I think what we see is that coding becomes something that is cool. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** How do you deal with the potential of scams, or just like security issues in that unfettered world where it's like "Yeah, check out my vibe app", and it's cool, but like what happens when it's a scam? |
**Chris Anderson:** There's thankfully a whole bunch of prior art. Essentially, for us dev tool builders it's a little bit of alien land, but if you've done social media before, it's that playbook. So we've done some of the basic things already... For instance, there's no way to publish to a fire hose. It's not like ju... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. I just wonder... It's one of those things where you don't want to have to deal with it, but you do... And it's early, because trust will be everything to get to the TikTok stage of sharing, and virality, or whatever... It's going to be something you can trust, or has to be. And if you can't tr... |
**Chris Anderson:** \[53:49\] Yeah. So if you look at the history of using Mechanical Turk to moderate profile images, and having to do two of three thumbs down, and all that - so much cheaper, so much easier to do that with a model now. Just let Claude tell you whether it's not any good, you know? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** There you go. |
**Chris Anderson:** And then on top of that, we aren't going to run into these problems to -- it's sort of blunted. We don't give you the ability to go into the editor and type. It wouldn't be hard for us to, but we figure that that's the point you should copy and paste it somewhere else. And Claude's not going to writ... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Solve it with more AI. That's interesting. Right...? All problems get easier with AI... |
**Chris Anderson:** Well, AI makes new problems faster, then it makes the other ones easier, but hopefully we've isolated ourselves from that with this one file app JSX thing. And don't underestimate the power of the single-origin policy. The web browser kind of already worked out a lot of this stuff. |
**Jerod Santo:** So if this thing takes off - I mean, now's the time to get in there and really be the vibe DIYer in chief, right? The people that were early on YouTube, the people that were early to TikTok, they had a much better time... Is there actual virality built into it? Can I build an audience? Can I distribute... |
**Chris Anderson:** So if we're talking 90 seconds from prompt to app, on the cases where it works, probably another 90 seconds to be like "Is this app any good?" and then hit Publish. And now it's on a URL, so we go wherever URLs go. But the built-in features around like a newsfeed, and a For You page, and all that...... |
We're growing the team right now. People who want to do that should probably talk to me about it, but it's definitely... It's a kind of interesting green field, because so much of the design language is already worked out. It's not like we have to decide what an algorithmic feed even is. It's more just about making it ... |
**Jerod Santo:** Right. |
**Chris Anderson:** And the same thing you do with a video, you do with this. And we even have plans -- for instance, the same Jason Smith I mentioned earlier, he used to host npm. I talked to him about it yesterday and he said "Hey, I've been working on some video gen stuff. I think you could --" Lik, we have this dem... |
**Jerod Santo:** Right. That's cool. So what kind of engineers or people are you looking for? |
**Chris Anderson:** Really right now if you go use Vibes, you're totally allowed to roast it, because I am a React developer, I guess, but I'm also a CEO... And it's like 75% CEO code right now. So we've got -- |
**Jerod Santo:** C-level code. \[laughter\] I like that. |
**Chris Anderson:** So if you're just like absolutely cracked, and the person hire is -- you know, when somebody is kind of like new enough to a stack where they're like dangerously enthusiastic about getting everything right... If you're senior enough, you're going to see my flubs and be frustrated, but at the right p... |
**Jerod Santo:** Every level of CEO code is like an opportunity for the right person, you know? |
**Chris Anderson:** Yup. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I just got like WordPress vibes, in a way. Like, in a positive way. When I was looking at this golf friends thing I got built out here, it's like Kubrick. Like K2 was to WordPress. Very -- every app has a certain style, kind of thing to it. I kind of feel like it's a good thing. |
**Jerod Santo:** Is there a shared -- is that on purpose, Chris? Is there a shared design aesthetic, or something? |
**Chris Anderson:** \[57:59\] Well, we made the choice to differentiate ourselves from everybody else. We're not using Shadcn... And that's not because it's not great. We just want to be different. We want to be more lightweight. We want to have a little bit more variance and let Claude or whoever express themselves a ... |
We've found -- there was a design school in Italy in the eighties that came up with a style they called Memphis. And so we tell it to make Memphis... So we described Memphis a little bit, and it does a pretty good job of that. That's all user editable. So if you go into the settings page right now, you can just type in... |
**Jerod Santo:** Certainly a good playground for testing out these models, and comparing them to each other. Probably better than my copy-paste prompt into like four thing is actually making -- probably better than Simon Willison's pelicans on bikes, is like make the same app against all these different models. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** That's cool. I see the style prompt now. It's pretty cool, you can just like swap that out, make it whatever you want. That's so cool. |
**Jerod Santo:** It's your own. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. |
**Chris Anderson:** Right. Or if you really want to go deep, just hit up our GitHub, fork the whole thing - you know who you are - and fix up my React. |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah, I was gonna ask you that... Like, how much of this can you run? How much of this is just completely "if I had enough gumption, I could get it running on my own Cloudflare account"? |
**Chris Anderson:** So... Kind of yes. What we have set up is even for - if you're going in via the GitHub, it deploys to our end point, and it uses our login system... And that means that you could have projects -- basically, we want you to be able to be a Vibes DIY user, go run a fork, maybe your fork is like interna... |
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