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**Adam Stacoviak:** And in some cases - or in many cases - the buzz is from sugar. |
**Danielle Rath:** Yes. |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** Right?! |
**Adam Stacoviak:** When you put - I'm just guessing - 80 milligrams or more of sugar into your body... That's probably conservative on those kind of drinks. It's probably a lot more than that. |
**Danielle Rath:** I think the American Heart Association says that adult men can have 36 grams of sugar in a day, and adult women can have 26 grams of sugar in a day... And I've seen energy drinks that have 68 grams of \*organic\*, natural sugar... |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** But sugar! |
**Danielle Rath:** This is like three days' worth of sugar for you... And they have high doses of caffeine, too. If you're trying to be awake, all you need is the caffeine. Let the caffeine wake you up, not the sugar. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** So are you advocating for brown coffee then? Or should I say black coffee... Because I know some people out there who are like coffee snobs will say "This is brown coffee, not black coffee." So are you advocating for just plain coffee? |
**Danielle Rath:** I'm advocating for energy drinks that don't have sugar or a high amount of caffeine... |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** \[28:13\] \[laughs\] Right...? But sugar is a huge variable in that. I find it humorous, and we'll see the long-term benefits, because my kids have stopped asking for dessert; they just ask for sugar. |
**Danielle Rath:** Oh, no... \[laughter\] |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** They're like "Well, I've already had my two sugars for today", or whatever... |
**Danielle Rath:** Like little sugar cubes? |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** No, but they actually -- because I feel like education is so important, and going "What we ingest, and managing that relative to what we're trying to optimize for", so helping even my kids understand that sugar affects them, and that 25, 26, 36 milligrams... I mean, what does a Coke have in ju... |
**Danielle Rath:** Yeah. Some drinks are pretty bad, yeah. |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** Right? And so energy drinks - it's not uncommon to have 25, 26, 35 milligrams in one. |
**Danielle Rath:** Grams. It's grams in sugar, milligrams in caffeine. |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** Oh, gotcha. Yes, thank you. This is why we have the scientist. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. I said milligrams, too. |
**Danielle Rath:** That's alright. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Grams, not milligrams. |
**Danielle Rath:** Yeah, so this problem of having high sugar with caffeine, whether the caffeine is high or low, is a problem that I am observing in energy drinks, as well as teas. One of the popular teas - I think it's Snapple or Lipton... I mean, you think it's healthy because it's tea, but it has so much sugar that... |
There's so many alternatives -- even if you don't like energy drinks, there's these other caffeinated beverages that aren't exactly coffee, black or brown, and the tea, black or green... It's just other source of caffeine that don't come with that sugar. Because this high-sugar problem is in all these caffeinated bever... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Which speaks to the motivation factor. This is one thing I said to Mireille - what is the motivation behind these food manufacturers to create these drinks? It seems like you may be aware of some that have good intentions for the consumer, which is the person drinking it, or eating it, or consuming ... |
**Danielle Rath:** Obviously, I can't speak to all companies, but speaking as a product developer, oftentimes you are forced to give the customer what they want, as opposed to what you wish they wanted. So for example, I know as a food scientist that 36 grams is too many grams of sugar. But my boss knows that if I put ... |
\[31:53\] So you're kind of chasing how to make the product not taste horrible, and how to make a product that sells. And oftentimes that runs into your personal beliefs or your personal motivation, but the end goal is to make a product that's good, that sells, and I feel like that's consistent across the industry. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** So if you deliver the drink with not 36 grams, you delivered it with -- what would you desire with? Like, if you were making it for something, and you wanted them to "enjoy"... |
**Danielle Rath:** 10 grams. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** 10 grams. How would they then take it in? So if you delivered it the same way, but not 36 grams, but 10 grams instead, how would the consuming body that you're serving take that product? |
**Danielle Rath:** If you have 10 grams or less of sugar, that blood sugar spike won't be as dramatic... So you can still get the benefits of the caffeine without the defects or without the side effects of that increase in sugar. And there are plenty of caffeinated beverages, both teas and coffees and energy drinks tha... |
So there are people out there that are trying to provide these options, and I think they taste pretty good. They've got 10 grams of sugar, maybe 80-100 milligrams of caffeine, they may or may not have artificial sweeteners, they may or may not have artificial colors, B vitamins... But this is an energy drink, but it's ... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. Are they reading the label, or are they trying it and not liking it? What do you know about the deciding factor there? Are they like "Oh, this has got 10 grams, so I don't like it" or is it "I tasted, I tried it. The effects didn't do what I thought it should do. I'm not gonna buy that one any... |
**Danielle Rath:** Very few people actually read the labels... So it's more about brand awareness, what have you heard that works, and if you're spending $3 for a caffeinated beverage, is that gonna give you the most bang for your buck? Is this actually gonna wake you up? And safety. Like, what do people hear on the ne... |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** And so with that, is it necessary that -- I mean, I don't see it on my cup of coffee relative to how much caffeine is in it... Is that right? There's no regulation to say "Hey, this has to go on", whatever you're drinking, for how much caffeine is in it, right? |
**Danielle Rath:** This is a huge pet peeve of mine actually, and I'm so glad you brought this up. With the energy drinks space, or -- well, more energy drinks than caffeinated beverages, the whole umbrella - energy drinks have these guidelines from the American Beverage Association that says "You should put a warning ... |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** What?! |
**Danielle Rath:** ..because coffees aren't beholden to the same guidelines. |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** Wait, wait, wait. Say that again, so that our listeners get it. |
**Danielle Rath:** Starbucks triple-shot has three times the caffeine as a Red Bull. |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** So how much caffeine is that? |
**Danielle Rath:** That's 225 milligrams, and Red Bull just has 80. |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** Wow...! That's a lot, right? |
**Danielle Rath:** Yes. |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** So what is recommended, for how much? How much caffeine can people have every day, so that I know what limits am I trying to stay within? |
**Danielle Rath:** So if you are pregnant or nursing, you can have 200 milligrams a day, which is two cups of coffee. If you're a healthy adult, no known predispositions, no known hard defects or any ailments like that, you can have 400 milligrams a day, which is four standard cups of coffee. |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** Woo-hoo! |
**Danielle Rath:** Yes... \[laughter\] |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** Good...! |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Almost everybody listening is like "Thank you. Thank you. You didn't tell me I was killing myself. I appreciate that." |
**Danielle Rath:** And I would recommend checking everything you drink, and everything you eat, through this website called caffeineinformer.com. It has the largest database of foods, and drugs, and drinks, like sodas, as well as coffees and teas and energy drinks. They will tell you how much caffeine is in your drink,... |
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