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bilibili_data_22095156_BV19a4y1q7Yz_p39_BV19a4y1q7Yz_p39_m4-dialogue_0722234
[S1] No one can tell you you're not the right fit. No one. And you can get all the nos in the world, but you have your knowing and, and, and, and by the way, I believe this, Mel, I believe even when you trust your knowing and then it seems like it was wrong and things don't go your way over and over and over, like I lo...
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bilibili_data_22095156_BV19a4y1q7Yz_p39_BV19a4y1q7Yz_p39_m4-dialogue_0722235
[S1] If he, I was so desperate that if he would've invested in us then, I probably would've given him the majority of the company for almost no money. [S2] Right. [S1] Right? By the time, many years, six years later, after that day, six years later, when, um, L'Oreal bought this little company and started my living roo...
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[S1] It felt like it wasn't fair. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] Um, and I can look at that in many scenarios. Sometimes we don't have some big positive outcome, but we learn a purpose through a no. [S2] Right. [S1] Right? We learn a calling through a no. Um, we learn a lesson. We build strength. We build resiliency. We appreciate ...
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[S1] I have not seen him. Uh, the day that we- [S2] Of course I ask the petty question. I'm like, "Have you ever, like, seen him to, like, tch, twist the little knife in their- [S1] So, so, uh, I heard from him one time, ever again, and it was six years later, the day that L'Oreal announced the deal. So because they're...
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[S1] Yeah. [S2] You were, you were the trailblazer there too. [S1] It's, uh, it's been, yeah, so many things. It's been a journey. And here's the thing, Mel, it was another woman inside L'Oreal. It was Carol Hamilton, who was head of luxury for North America. She'd been there, gosh, 30 plus years, and she championed fo...
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[S1] You know what I mean? [S2] Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. [S1] And I think, again, um, there's an example, by the way, of, of, I believe, I'm not gonna speak for her, I believe she knows, this is my opinion, I think she probably knows she should be the first fe- female CEO, but look how she used what she went through to then, bo...
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[S1] And that was the first time and only time since that I heard from that potential investor. [S2] And what did he say? [S1] He said, "Congratulations on the L'Oreal deal. I was wrong," is what he said, and wished me the best of luck and, uh, uh, so- [S2] That's a big deal to admit.
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[S1] ... you're wrong. [S2] It is. Um, and, uh, and so when you speak about petty, so I, what I did say to him was, "Thank you," but what I wanted to say, [LAUGHS] like if- [S1] [LAUGHS] What did you want to say? [S2] So in that moment, here's what I thought about. I, I thought about, um, do you remember the movie Pret...
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[S1] Big mistake. Huge, huge. [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] I could give you 1.2 billion reasons why it was a huge mistake. Um, but I didn't. I wouldn't have wanted to be him in that situation. You know, we probably would've been one of the most successful investments in his firm's history, you know? And so, listen, it wasn't, uh...
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[S1] ... is about seeing that in front of you. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] Not behind you. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] That the, the rejections that you're facing right now, that you can look ahead and realize it's protecting you in this moment. Um, I had like a couple other questions that I wanted to ask you because after doing something...
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[S1] And you also have made a huge difference in, uh, women's lives around the world because you are extraordinarily philanthropic. $40 million worth of product and monetary donations, um, to people that are struggling with cancer. And what is next for you? [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] Because you are, right now,
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[S1] In the middle of figuring out on this next leg of the journey called life, what your purpose is. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] And what your next thing is going to be.
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[S1] What tools are you using or how are you thinking about it? And it's really important topic because so many people, particularly after the last three years, have had a profound life change thrust on them. [S2] Yes. [S1] And they're looking ahead at an open road wondering what their
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[S1] purpose is going to be, what they're going to do. Can you just speak to that person for a minute about how you're going about figuring it out? [S2] Yeah. So one thing I just want to, um, remind everyone too, Mel, 'cause I think people put so much pressure on themselves that their purpose has to be their job. [S1] ...
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[S1] health coverage, and we need that paycheck. And, and, and your purpose can be found in the things you do outside of that, right? There's a lot of ways, uh, to listen to that knowing in your gut and, and, and then when it feels right, you know that's aligned with, with who you're born to be- [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] ... a...
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[S1] Could I go launch a bunch of businesses? Yes. [laughs] Right? Um, and what I feel drawn to is, is, is literally, 'cause here's the deal. Yes, I've built a billion dollar business. Yes, I have other companies I invest in. [S2] You also are married and you have two beautiful children. [S1] Yes, a two-year-old and a ...
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[S1] Mm-hmm. [S2] Well, and here's the thing, is like, that's all part of my story. But when I, when I, when I look at my real story, it, it, it, meaning the part that ties deeply to my purpose, like my real story is a girl who went from not believing in herself- [S1] Mm-hmm. [S2] ... to learning how to. And so when I ...
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[S1] seeing women, helping them see themselves- [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] ... and believe in themselves and believe they are worthy and enough. And that's what makes, like, that's what fires me up every morning. So when I think about what I'm stepping into next- [S2] Yeah. [S1] ... um, you know, I wrote Believe It, um, which i...
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[S1] Hold on, hold on. Um, let's just underscore that. So she writes a New York Times bestseller, donates all the proceeds from the book. [S2] Yeah. [S1] To nonprofits. Just donates them. [S2] Yeah, and the book is just, um...
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[S1] It's like a little manual that you should have on your bedside table, 'cause Jamie will be smiling at you. [S2] Yeah. [S1] And you'll see that you're not alone, that we're in this together. And her example of learning how to go from doubting herself to believing in herself is the journey that each and every one of...
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[S1] If somebody kinda has a sense that there's something more, but they don't quite have their, they haven't had that aha moment yet that you had almost 14 years ago sitting on that television set. [S2] Yeah. [S1] I'm gonna make makeup and I'm gonna bring real women and I'm gonna show my skin and I'm gonna solve this ...
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[S1] Yeah. Two things. One, waiting for it to be perfect can be the lowest vibration, big, biggest excuse. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] Uh, number one reason why people just never try and never get started. So I don't think, I think it's rare to ever have complete clarity, like, "This is exactly perfect for it." And that's why, y...
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[S1] You know, he, he was saying something to me recently about, you know, almost like when you're about to aim a, a bow and arrow and you're about to let go of the arrow, he's like, "You can aim and, and turn it and twist it a few times before you let go of the arrow. It's okay to wait a little bit and just make sure ...
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[S1] Amazing. [S2] So does this mean you- [S1] I love you. [S2] ... you're gonna do a talk show? [S1] [LAUGHS] Maybe, maybe. You can te- you can teach me all the ropes, Mal, and then, um, yeah, but I- [S2] Partly. I am a failed talk show host. [S1] Uh, okay, there, n- don't even- [S2] That is true. My talk show got can...
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[S1] I think our steps are ordered. Why? I think because you are gonna own all of what you're doing and make it so much bigger than anyone else who owned it, could've made it. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] So, uh, by that definition, I think you're the most successful talk show host. That's the first thing. Um- [S2] At least in th...
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[S1] But no, I love, I think it's all gonna be the same. I think a show is a show. You know what I mean? [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] It's, the world's changing so rapidly. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] Um, and, uh, and I love too that you can do this show on your terms. [S2] It's true. [S1] Right? You can do it on your terms and that's why ...
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[S1] And maybe this is one of the reasons why we have become such dear friends in such a short period of time. And I often say on this show that I truly believe that the best years of your life and the best friendships that you'll have are on the road ahead. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] But a lot of the reason why we connected so...
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[S1] People's lives that are just got their head down and they don't feel very seen or heard and I want to make them know that they have it within them to tap into this incredible power inside them to create whatever they want in life. [S2] Yes. [S1] And it starts with believing. [S2] Yes. [S1] That you can. And having...
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[S1] You know, on that topic of friendship, I love so much that you are the friend that people need to your audience. Like, and, and what I mean by that, and I'm honored to be the friend for this episode with you, to everyone. And, and what I mean by that, Mel, is I think you and I love each other for who we authentica...
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[S1] help pull each other into who we're becoming. [S2] Yes. [S1] And I think so often, and that's why I love, um, and, and your show also, as you know, of course, but I just want to call it out, that your show can be this for people who feel like, "How do I find those friends that pull, help pull me into my future?" B...
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[S1] ... important because we're talking about purpose. [S2] Yeah. [S1] To try and, and, and add friends to your circle who, who truly want the best for you. Not just what they think is the best for them in you, but like want the best for you. And you do that for me, I do that for you. [S2] Yes. [S1] This show, your sh...
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[S1] Um, I wanna just highlight one final thing and then I have a surprise to tell, um, you listening to us right now. Yes, we have a surprise for you. It's really exciting, with Professor Purpose over here. [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] Um, [CLEARS THROAT] and I, I, I'm having like a menopause moment where like the drawbridge is...
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[S1] see if I can- [S2] Everything you say is profound. [S1] ... order this. Hardly. Hardly, but I appreciate you saying that. Um, I think one of the things that I've learned, and it took me a long time to learn this, is that there is so much success and happiness to go around. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] And when you lift other...
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[S1] ... that, um, your success comes faster and it's richer. [S2] Yes. [S1] Both emotionally and in terms of monetarily. And, um, I just remembered what I wanted to say, and it's this, and it goes back to purpose, it goes back to that knowing and staying connected to your intention and this unique thing that you have ...
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[S1] Your knowing is yours. [S2] Yeah. [S1] And you have to stay connected to it, and you have to keep describing it or advocating for it or explaining it to people so that they can see it too. And it's not until you demonstrate what you see in your own heart and mind by continuing to walk toward it, continuing to talk...
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[S1] Because it's your knowing. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] Not theirs. And so in a weird way, a ton of nos or a lot of friction or bumping up against things as you're trying, you can't understand, "Why don't people get this? Why isn't this working?" It's because it's your knowing, not theirs.
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[S1] Amazing. Okay, so the surprise. [S2] Okay. [S1] So my, Jamie Kern-Lima has just given you a frickin' master class. She put you in the seat next to her as we have driven down a 15-year journey in her life. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] And just insight after insight after insight. And I'm really excited because Jamie also want...
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[S1] Just go to the comments and in all caps, and we will put this in our, um, description below, in all caps, just say, "Question for Jamie. Question for Jamie." [S2] I love it. [S1] And we are going to consolidate all of your questions and we're gonna have Jamie back.
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[S1] That is why I love you. [S2] I love you. [S1] You're just the freaking best. And in case nobody else has told you, I wanna just make sure that we end by saying that I love you. I know James
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[S1] I know Jamie does too. [S2] Yeah. I love you also. And, um, and you're worthy of your greatest hopes and your wildest dreams and all the unconditional love in the world and, and your purpose and worthy of grace. You know, the grace that you want to give yourself on this journey. And we're all in it together. That'...
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[S1] I am not a New York Times bestseller, but I don't know. [S2] Yeah. [S1] I'm the son of a New York Times best- [S2] There you go. Uh, so our son Oakley has been on the podcast twice, uh, three times. [S1] Three times. [S2] You introduced me on the opening show. [S1] Oh, yeah, I introduced you, I was in our solo one...
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[S1] Right. Awesome. You're amazing. [S2] Awesome. [S1] And, um, I wanted to talk to you because you came into the kitchen tonight and you were like, "Oh my God, I just had the best therapy session." And I thought, "How many 17-year-old guys walk into the kitchen and announce to their family that?" [S2] I don't know. [...
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[S1] Talk to me about therapy. Do you like therapy? [S2] I would like to talk to your audience about therapy. [S1] Okay, do it. [S2] Guys, therapy is like, it's awesome. I...
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[S1] Love my therapist. I love therapy. When I was younger, I had a horrible experience with therapy. It was with this, like, old woman who, like, tried to convince me how to use an elevator because that's what I was afraid of. I was afraid of elevators. [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] She was like, "You need to ride the elevator."...
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[S1] Oh my God. Well, I want, I'm so happy and appreciative that you were like, "Yeah, I'll, I'll sit down on the mics with your mom and tell you why this therapy session with Keith was so awesome." [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] So thank you. [S2] Of course. [S1] Why did you want to do it? [S2] Because I felt like I was in a good ...
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[S1] As a way to open up dialogue. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] And it's working. That's why people are asking so often and so frequently that we have you come back and back and back. So thank you. [S2] Glad I can help. [S1] All right. Well, let's see if this helps or not. [S2] Let's do it. [S1] Okay. You walked downstairs. [S2] ...
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[S1] And we were cooking dinner and we had, uh, your sister on the FaceTime. She was playing a song for us. She just wrote. And you walked into the kitchen. [S2] Yes, I did walk into the kitchen. [S1] And you said. [S2] I love my therapist, Keith. [S1] [LAUGHS] And it was so funny. You just, like, strolled around. You'...
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[S1] ... [S2] ... [S1] ... [S2] So, what did you talk about in this session? [S1] A lot of things. A lot of things. Um, school- [S2] Would you be willing to unpack it with me? [S1] Yeah, I mean- [S2] Can you just tell everybody why you wanted to share this? Like, why? 'Cause, 'cause I think it's pretty cool that you're...
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[S1] The honest answer is that I came downstairs in a good mood and I said, "I love Keith," and you said, "Will you record this with me?" And I was in a good enough mood to say, "Sure." [S2] Oh, I like an honest answer. What's the podcast answer? [S1] This is game-changing stuff right here. Life-changing. [S2] Is it? [...
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[S1] So it was a life-changing therapy session you just had with your therapist, Keith. [S2] Low key. Yeah. It was like, yeah, little, little life change right there. A little, like, tweak in the direction that my life is going in. [S1] [LAUGHS] Okay. I, I, I can't wait to hear it. [S2] [LAUGHS] Um... [S1] So why did y...
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[S1] started when? Last year, April? Was it, or was it May? It was April. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] So, yeah, April last year, so almost a year, kinda close to a year, a few months away. Sophomore year, and it, it was weird because, um, freshman year and sophomore year, there was a moment in time
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[S1] It wasn't, it wasn't depression and it wasn't like, I think it was anxiety. [S2] Okay. [S1] It was overwhelming anxiety in my freshman and sophomore year. And it went away. Like freshman year happened in March. It was about three weeks, gone. Forgot about it. [S2] Hold on a second. I don't remember you having anxi...
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[S1] Because I didn't want to make it a huge thing, and I didn't want to go to therapy, and I didn't want to, like, get into that. I didn't want to get into that. [S2] Wait. [S1] I was like, "I can do this. I can s- I can solve this. I can get over this. Like, we're good." And we were good freshman year. [S2] Wait, hol...
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[S1] I have no idea that you were struggling with anxiety for three weeks in freshman year of high school. You hit, why did you hide this from me? [S2] I've struggled with anxiety my whole life. The, the, the, when I talk about that specific time period, it's when my anxiety was at this like weird peak where I just lik...
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[S1] No idea. Like, I couldn't tell you freshman year. And I'll, I'll get into what it was later because I know now, but there was... This is probably gonna terrify you. [S2] Oh. [S1] I don't know if you've heard this story. [S2] I don't know.
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[S1] I, I woke up and it was like one of those, it was one of those March days where it was like there was no snow, but it was like kinda like foggy. [S2] Yeah. [S1] And misty. [S2] Yeah. [S1] And where we live, like, when you look out the window, it's like you can't see anything, so it, like, you feel like you're in, ...
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[S1] I like looked around, I like took a deep breath. I was like, "Whatever this is, like, you've been anxious before. Like, you can get over this. Like, it's fine." Then I go back inside. [S2] Yeah. [S1] I wanted to hug Dad. I wanted to, like,
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[S1] I don't know, I wanted to do something. I wanted to reach out, I wanted to get help, I wanted something, and I couldn't do it. Like, I just couldn't. I didn't want to. [S2] Why? [S1] Because I didn't want to get into it. I didn't want to become a process. I didn't want to have to do stuff because I felt like I kne...
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[S1] And then I look towards the kitchen and I like, "Oh my God." Like, Rick, like, thinking about this moment is so, like, weird and scary and, like, I would never do this ever and it's super out of character. But I looked in the kitchen and, like, I... [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] You're gonna be very nervous when you hear thi...
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[S1] I mean, listeners, sorry guys, maybe trigger warning for the listeners, but I looked at the kitchen and I looked at like the, um, the knife holder. [S2] Uh-huh. [S1] And like, I, like, like almost like a movie, like I could fully imagine myself like stabbing myself in the stomach with a knife. And like part of me ...
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[S1] And I like looked at my outline of my hand and I was just like crying for no reason. And like the dark, the darkness of my room was like my ceiling was blue. And like that was the only light. And I was just like looking at my hand outline and crying and just being terrified. And then it basically just like went aw...
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[S1] Are you nervous about what I might ask? [S2] No, not really. [S1] Well, first, I just want to say thank you for telling me. [S2] I feel like I told you that before, right? [S1] Not that part, no. [S2] I could give you the memoir and you could read it on your own time if you wanted to. [S1] Um, I would love to. [S2...
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[S1] Oh my God. [S2] ... open relationship. [S1] We have a great relationship, as stated in the family podcast episode, which was- [S2] Will you stop? Okay. [S1] ... wonderful. I'm plugging, Mom. [S2] I know. [S1] Um- [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] Um- [S2] No, but I, I, I, so, number one, I'm surprised that you never shared that ...
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[S1] I know why I didn't share it with you. [S2] Why? [S1] I didn't share it with you because, two reasons. [S2] Okay. [S1] The first one was I didn't want to get into it. I didn't want to get a therapist. I didn't want to go on meds. I had horrible experiences with meds and therapists in my past, and I didn't want to ...
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[S1] I wouldn't say every day, but like every week I've probably had like a small anxious panic, if you will. Like a, "Oh my goodness, I'm like anxious right now. Uh, like I'm anxious, I'm nervous," whatever, whatever. And like, I can handle it. I can do it. [S2] Okay. Yeah. [S1] And so I felt like I could handle it. A...
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[S1] Yeah. Okay. I want to say one other thing. Um, I want to address the fact that you may be listening to us talking about a very serious topic and we're giggling and we're light about it. [S2] People laugh when they're uncomfortable. [S1] Oh, true. [S2] Except I wouldn't say I'm uncom- I would, I don't know if I'm u...
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[S1] ... an episode of the Mel Robbins Podcast, behind the scenes. [S2] Yeah. [S1] So make sure you subscribe on YouTube and also follow the show wherever you listen to podcasts. You wanna know why? 'Cause the more this show grows, the more we can continue to bring this to you at zero cost, and that's a really big deal...
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[S1] Welcome back. I'm Mel Robbins, and I'm so excited you're here because I'm talking to my, our 17-year-old son Oakley, and he's just in real time unpacking a killer therapy session that he had tonight with Keith. [S2] 30 minutes ago, I got off the phone. [S1] [LAUGHS] [S2] I feel like you're supposed to wait a day, ...
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[S1] Okay. Here's the other thing I wanted to say. We have two years from this, meaning we've had two years distance from this topic. [S2] From the freshman top. [S1] Yes. [S2] Yeah, yeah, yeah. [S1] You're in a amazing place mentally, spiritually. [S2] Fantastically. [S1] Yeah. And so there is no danger. [S2] No. [S1]...
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[S1] Yeah. 'Cause I feel like, like suicidal thoughts are, I feel like it's been talked about to the point where it's like you're at the worst of the worst if there's suicidal thoughts. Like this is where- [S2] Oh. [S1] ... like shit is going down. Like it's bad. Like this is bad. Like this is the worst of the worst. L...
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[S1] When the truth is- [S2] So like, so when you hear like, so when you hear that somebody has suicide, like when you just said, "Would you think it's normal that most people do?" Like I'd say no because it's like- [S1] No, most people do. [S2] I wouldn't expect everybody to be at the worst of the worst even though- [...
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[S1] It's more just that, like, I feel like it's talked about where it's like, it's only like the people with the worst condition are gonna have that. [S2] Got it. [S1] So it's not, so like when you say like, "Oh, everybody has it," like I'm like, "Really?" Like I feel like it's only the worst of the worst that-
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[S1] Because of what, it, no, it's normal to have those kinds of thoughts. So I just wanted to address the, what might sound like a weird tone or an insensitive tone to say we're two years away from it. Oakley's in an insanely amazing place. Oakley is in an incredible place in his life, in his mental health, his spirit...
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[S1] You can figure out how to lessen the pain or the sadness or the weirdness or the anxiety that you're feeling. And you can do that and you don't have to end your life. In fact, you make your life better by talking about these things that are overwhelming you and asking for help. [S2] 'Cause you can't just keep them...
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[S1] And I think most people, including the people that we've lost, that we love, to death by suicide, I still would say most people, if somebody had assured them, "If I can take away all the pain that you're feeling and you could still have your life, would you want to be here?" [S2] Hell, yeah. [S1] Right? [S2] Hell,...
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[S1] And when they come out of nowhere or they seem to get louder and louder, it can be terrifying. I know it was terrifying when this all started happening with Oakley. And I'm telling you that this is normal because so many people suffer because they believe that the thoughts will never go away. [S2] That's what I be...
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[S1] If you knew having those thoughts pop in your mind was perfectly normal, would that make you have felt better in that moment? [S2] Kinda, yeah. [S1] I, I'm glad that you said that, Oak, because I think so many people, when they start to suffer because of these really scary thoughts, um, they don't tell anybody. [S...
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[S1] You can figure out how to lessen the pain or the sadness or these awful, like, kind of thoughts that keep popping into your head. You can do that. And you can do that and you don't have to end your life. In fact, when you do that, you make your life better. [S2] Mm-hmm. Oh. [S1] And that's why I'm saying this to y...
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[S1] In the beginning, for me at least, I thought to myself that, "Hey, I can keep this in. Like, I've done it before. I've done it 10,000 times before. Like, I can do it again." And, yeah, you can do it in the beginning. But, instead of waiting till you collapse, just get it over with right in the beginning and tell s...
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[S1] Yeah. [S2] I do too. [S1] 'Cause I doubt it would've come back in sophomore year. [S2] Ooh. Good point. Speaking of sophomore year, let's go there. [S1] Let's do it. [S2] So what happened sophomore year? Because you said, you know, this, this anxiety hit you for a week period in March freshman year. [S1] Gone, for...
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[S1] Flashback. Beginning of sophomore year. Sophomore year is awesome. I loved my sophomore year. Great friends, um, great experiences, great classes, super fun. Um, it was great. It was same time, March, or was it April? Might've been April. I think it was- [S2] We're gonna have to track this this year. [S1] We will ...
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[S1] And so in sophomore year, I wrote about my experience that I had freshman year. [S2] Okay. [S1] Around the same time. And so by writing that, I, I basically like mentally dove back into that mindset. Not mindset, but like into that time and I remembered how I felt and I remembered what it was like. And I remember ...
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[S1] I had brought myself back to those emotions. I remembered them. I kind of brought myself back to a time where I was super vulnerable and I had to go back and be vulnerable in that moment. And then- [S2] I can see your eyes tearing up just thinking about it. [S1] Not really. Not in this moment. [S2] A little bit. [...
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[S1] And it was like possible solutions and all this stuff. And then it told us what would happen if these solutions didn't happen. And so I come out of the movie and I'm like, "What could we do?" Like realistically, like as a world, like what can we do? [S2] Okay. [S1] So I start thinking about my town and then my sta...
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[S1] Absolutely nothing matters to me. Nothing I do- [S2] Do not get yourself back in that state. [S1] No, I- [S2] Okay. [S1] I'm just- [S2] Well, I was just, like, like, I don't- [S1] No, no, no, no, no. [S2] Okay.
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[S1] I don't- [S2] No, no, no, no, no, no. [S1] Okay. [S2] So, nothing matters. Nothing I do will have an effect. Nothing anybody does will change anything, so why do anything? [S1] Mm. [S2] Why? And so I thought about that, and I kept thinking about that, being like, "There has to be an answer. There has to be an answ...
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[S1] And then all of a sudden, I start to get these nervous anxiety attacks. [S2] Mm. [S1] Where I'm lightheaded and I can't think and everything is rushing out of my head and I'm scared and I'm confused.
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[S1] And it's all because in those moments I keep telling myself that nothing I do is gonna matter. No one I talk to, nothing I do, nothing will ever change anything. It doesn't matter what I do. It doesn't matter what anybody does. [S2] The world's gonna end. [S1] Because the world, not, not the world's gonna end, but...
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[S1] It wasn't about the world ending. The movie about climate change sparked like a thing about like me thinking about- [S2] Do I even matter? [S1] ... the bigger picture. [S2] God. [S1] And then I realized that I was like, I don't matter. Nobody matters. The world doesn't matter. [S2] Well, let me pick up the story n...
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[S1] ... that is what was going on. And it was moments of, there was one moment we were eating dinner together. [S2] Yeah. [S1] And I just had to like get up and go to the bathroom and like look in the mirror and be like, "You're okay, you're okay, you're okay. Like, it's gonna be okay. Like, you'll get through this." ...
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[S1] 'Cause like that's how scared I was. Like I couldn't live with this fact and I couldn't accept the fact that I felt like nothing mattered. [S2] Yeah. It was a terrifying thing to go through with you. [S1] Oh, it was so- [S2] Because-
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[S1] ... that you had gone from just thinking and thinking and thinking and not telling us, to a complete breakdown. [S2] Yeah. [S1] And I asked you, I was like, "Are you in danger right now? Are you gonna hurt yourself?" And do you remember what you said? [S2] I said, "No." I was like- [S1] You said, "No." [S2] ... "I...
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[S1] But I can't live like this, Mom. I can't keep thinking these thoughts. [S2] Right. [S1] And I kept going, "What thoughts?" And you kept saying, "I don't matter. Nothing matters." [S2] It, I feel like even to this day, like, I still can't truly explain the thoughts that I was having, 'cause it was just like,
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[S1] ... thing happen in my body, like you, you call it like a switch that flipped. And all of a sudden, I would have this experience where everything felt fake. Almost like the Truman Show. [S2] Right. [S1] Or that your whole life is a set that's fake. [S2] Right. [S1] And I would repeatedly have this feeling that if ...
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[S1] Like a TV set and I would find myself in the middle of the desert with no one in sight. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] And the only person. And is Earth even real? And is this room even real? Like that's how it was. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] Terrifying. [S2] Yeah. [S1] Absolutely terrifying. [S2] Yeah. [S1] So I understand what that's...
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[S1] Uh, you wouldn't let me sleep alone. [S2] I know, I slept- [S1] You wouldn't let me- [S2] ... in your bed- [S1] You wouldn't let me be alone. You, oh my God, you took me out of school- [S2] Yep. [S1] ... for a week. [S2] For a mental health- [S1] We went back to Massachusetts. [S2] Yep, to see doctors. [S1] Um, I'...
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[S1] Uh, you- [S2] Got on medication. [S1] ... tried some medication that really helped. [S2] Still on it. It's the best. [S1] [LAUGHS] Help you climb out of that hole, man. Like, sometimes you need a ladder. [S2] Yeah, you do. Um- [S1] Sometimes you also need a surfboard, and so they can work both ways, and they work....
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[S1] It's a 25 minute segue. [S2] I want to say another thing. Can I talk about the John Mayer song? [S1] Sure. [S2] In terms of it? Okay. Like jumping back before we go to therapy. The, at the time, there was this song that I still love today, but I think it also contributed to my anxiety. It's, um,
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[S1] There's this like underground artist, his name's John Mayer. [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] I don't know if any of you know who he is, but he's super, I think he's a pretty good artist. And there's one of his songs, it's called Stop This Train. And basically like train symbolizes time and how like time keeps moving and like J...
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