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And, um, Okay. So how do you just figure , Well, you know, it depends upon our weather here. You know, today was a beautiful day it was like, uh, uh, summer day. It was seventy degrees so so I dressed in, uh, uh, a light weight skirt, Wow. it's a, uh, ultra suede skirt and a blouse with a sweater, cardigan over it. Uh-huh. Because I had some appointments at the office today, some interviews and so I had to dress up anyway and then I wore heels, you know. Uh-huh. But when it rains a lot, which is has been doing here a lot lately, uh, very often, you know, wear, uh, pants and boots you know. Oh. So how do you dress? Well, um, I'm going to talk about when I was working as a teacher and when I was working at now. Okay.
Um, when I was a teacher, um, in Utah, I would generally wear, um, dresses and heels and things like that, Uh-huh. and even when it, um, rained and snowed I just braved it and I wore heels anyway Yeah. And, I, I can see, I, I've been a teacher so has my daughter and I know that we very often wore heels despite the fact that, it was tiring. I know, it might kill you to go up and walk up to the door That's right. but you're going to look nice for the kids That's right and it always makes you feel like you're a bigger person than the kids, right? Oh, oh, yeah. Well, I need all the height I can get Yeah, I do too. So to be taller than some of the boys in the bigger grades, uh, older grades, I had to wear heels.
Oh, yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah, we too. Um, if it was it looked really dangerous then I would wear boots but then I would change, um, into heels, as soon as I got to my desk. Uh-huh. So, um, Of course, we wear, uh, an unlined boots, you know, it has a heel on it. They're the kind of boots that I wear to work and we wear them, you know, they're a leather boot that you wear and as I said they have a regular heel on them, high heel. Oh. And they wear them, we wear them a lot with shirts and things. Uh, it's kind of a, I can't say constant down here in Texas that you wear these boots. They're not a cowboy boot, but they're just a real pretty boot,
but they keep your feet nice and toasty from the rain. Oh. As I have a private high school that I run here and so when I'm interviewing a parent, of course I feel like I need to wear heels you know, and look like I'm a business person. You know, because the children will tease about where's your motorcycle, if you wear boots too often, you know. Sure. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Yeah. Huh. Well, um, Of course, you probably wear coats a lot. Yeah, um, the first two years I was in a room where they didn't heat it So I did, Oh, my goodness so then you had to. Yeah, and then the third year we, um, got heating so it was nice Yes. Then things improved, right? Right,
uh-huh. But of course, here we wear a light weight jacket a lot you know, you know, Oh, that's nice. and, uh, that's very seldom we, it depends upon our winter. We have a few days you might wear a coat, winter coat, you know, but most of the time you can wear a sweater and we just don't wear coats much. We often laugh about even when it turns chilly. We're wearing something lightweight or no jacket because we're so used to running around like that. Uh-huh. Oh. Nice. Well It's really different. Let's put it that way. Are you not teaching anymore? Uh, no, we, we moved to Iowa and, um, I'm working at a day care right now. I see.
And so the way I dress is really different because I'm working in the nursery room with kids from six months to like twenty months. Oh, so you don't wear heels anymore I'll bet. Yeah, I wear, uh, tennis shoes, and jeans and things that, you know, are sort of, um, Yeah, uh-huh. More practical. not, yes, it doesn't matter if I have to wash it a hundred times or something. When you were teaching, did you ever have, uh, uh, a blue jean day or anything like that? Yeah, but I never wore jeans because, um, I thought that was too casual Yeah, well, For, I know that some of the schools they have, uh, country western day or something like that one, you know, or tacky day, and I always thought it was kind of out of, got out of hand when the teachers looked real tacky too. Yeah, really. It's all right for the students,
they look tacky a lot but I didn't think teachers should, you know. Yeah, that's how I feel too. Yeah. Do you like, uh, uh, Iowa? Um, oh, it, there's some good things about it but I've seen. A lot of things I'm not used to yet, um, Where did you live before? Um, we lived in Utah before and, and I grew up in California. Oh, well, that's quite a change from California to Utah, Well, uh, what is your favorite kind of music? Well, I have to say my favorite type of music would probably be, uh, classical music. Oh, same here. Oh, really. Yeah. What type of music do you like in the classical area, or what era do you, era do you like the most? Oh, well, I guess I like a wide range. Uh, everything from, uh, from Baroque through at least some modern music.
Uh-huh. And my wife and I these days are especially into opera. We've been sort of opera fans for a few years now. Um, do you go to the operas that they sing English or go to the ones that they sing other languages? Well, we, uh, generally, the places we've gone they sing in the original languages. Uh-huh. Like the Dallas opera here normally does, I guess. Uh-huh. I, I haven't gotten into that too much because, I, uh, if I don't know the story line and, um, I don't speak the language, then I have difficult time, comprehending what's going on. Well, one thing that's helped us a lot is that, uh, you, you know, you can buy a lot of these operas now on video uh, video tape Uh-huh. and so we have quite a collection of those, and you watch them at home, and they have subtitles, so you, you figure out what's going on after a while, and then you can enjoy it in the, uh, theater. Oh. But, you know, the, uh, Dallas opera now has, uh, super titles on, on all their performances I think. What is that?
Well, they, they give an, uh, an English translation on a, on a screen up above the stage. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah. That can help people like me. In fact, they even do that for operas sung, sung in English, because it is hard to understand the words sometimes. Well, I can understand that. So, I'd say, Vivaldi is probably my favorite, uh, composer. Yeah, well, I really like Vivaldi. Uh, he's, uh, definitely one of the, one of the top of that era. Yeah. I like Baroque music, I like full body music, uh, with the, um, um, with brass and winds, woodwinds, instruments, you know. Uh-huh. Course I like, uh, also string instruments, and I have two string instruments in my house. Uh, instrument players, both my sons play string instruments. One plays the cello and the other one plays the viola. Oh
So, I get to go to at least four or five concerts a year Uh-huh. How, how old are they? One is thirteen and one is eleven. So they're doing this in school, or what? Yes. Uh-huh. Yes . Well, you've got half a string quartet there. Yeah. We're on our way. Yeah. So, uh, um, I try to enjoy all of it. Well, since you seem to like, uh, Italian music, have you ever, uh, gotten into Gabrielli or anybody there in that era, the, uh, period right before, actually before Vivaldi, I guess? Um, a little bit, but, um, a lot of the, um, music I don't know about, uh, as far as the titles, and I have to listen to it, and and figure out, what I'm listening to. Uh-huh. Um, I do belong to a Musical Heritage Society. Oh, yes,
uh-huh. Do you belong to that? No, I don't, but I think I know what it is. Isn't that a, uh, uh, see, can't you get records through that or something, recordings? You can get recordings. Uh, they know have them on compact disc or or, uh, or cassettes or L P Uh-huh. and, uh, they do their, they do a lot of original recordings themselves. Yes, yeah, I think, uh. But they also, uh, they also, uh, go to the different composers, or the different, I guess, what do you call them the guys that orchestrate the the conductors. Uh. Uh, yes, right Yeah.
They go to conductors, uh, and, and they actually have them perform the music, and they record it. So, they're actually commissioned performances. Sure. A lot of them are. Uh-huh. Or they will find out when they're performing, and they will, uh, record the music at that time. And so, uh, it is, uh, uh, high quality grade music, and, of course, now they're getting, they also have a jazz section, and they also have a, uh, more contemporary and American uh, composer section. Uh-huh. Well, I had heard good things about the, uh, Music Heritage Society, but if I get involved in one of those things, I end up spending all my money on on music. Yeah. Well, you can control it. I almost, uh, almost, uh, bankrupted myself out of college as a freshman when I got into the Columbia Record Club many years ago. Oh, really. Yeah,
my roommate signed me up. He got a bonus record, and I got a lot of bills I see. So we have to watch that. Well, that's good. Uh, do you play any instrument yourself? Yes, I, I play guitar and, and early years played saxophone. How do you feel about the Viet Nam war? Huh, well, um, you know, I guess it's pretty deep feelings, uh, I just, uh, went back and rented, uh, the movie, what is it, GOOD MORNING VIET NAM Uh-huh. and, uh. Yeah, I saw that as well. Got that, uh, uh, some insight there, to, to kind of help me put together the feelings. I really appreciated the, the whole, uh, English class where the, uh, the, uh, fellow just wouldn't do it, you know, the guy's gouging, gouging your eyes out, what are you going to do?
Uh-huh. You know, what for him to finish me off And, uh, it, it was, uh, good to remember the, uh, that, that kind of Asian philosophy that, uh. Uh-huh. Well, were you ever in Viet Nam or, No, no, I was kind of an in-between, uh, finally drew a high draft number, and you? Um, I was much too young, I was born in sixty-seven, so. Oh Um, you know, both my, well, both my brothers were, um, draft age, but neither of them wound up going over, which, I think they were very happy for. Well, I, personally, uh, you know, uh, I just went in limbo. I had a passport and was ready to go or um, out of the country or join special forces, either one. Uh-huh. Yeah.
Uh-huh. I mean, I just didn't know. So, uh. Well, um, so well do you, do you feel that it was worth what we did over there? Um, yeah, just a second. Okay. Okay. Sure, now. Well, Mark, um, what was that again? Um, do you think, I mean, do you think, our the investment in lives and money was worth it? No, not, not really. I totally agree with that. Um. Um. What, what effects do you think it's had on our country? Downside. Um, uh, well, the says we should, uh, go into the grief that, that's there and, you know, presidents have always avoided that as a country. Uh-huh.
So it's pretty serious, really, you know, lot of things that aren't being addressed. Uh-huh. I think you know, that's pretty typical that, of the entire, entire involvement over that, you know, that nothing was really addressed, it it wasn't, you know, it was never we, we announced that we were going to war, it was such a gradual and subtle, you know um, you know increasement of, of force that. Yeah. Gulf of Tonkin, uh, resolution and was it a dolphin or a torpedo. You remember that? I vaguely remember we, um, we had a, we had a, um, spy ship torpedoed or something. Yeah, yeah, only only it was foggy and finally President Johnson said, well, they're weren't really sure whether it was a dolphin or a torpedo. Oh Isn't that something? Uh-huh. Um, so, um, do, do, do you think that like, uh, um, for example like in, in this past war, in the Persian Gulf war that, uh, that you see, it seemed to me that, that Bush was going, going to extraordinary lengths to, um, you know, prepare the country for war.
Uh-huh. Hey Mark I've got to go, um. Yeah. Okay. We'll see you. I guess our five minutes are up according to me. Are they to you? Uh, I wasn't really keeping count. But I guess, good-bye. Yeah, okay, bye-bye. Bye. Okay. So, uh, Mike, what are your opinions on, uh, trial by jury? Well I work for an insurance company so I see a lot of, uh, verdicts that are pretty crazily decided. Um, by juries particularly, and I know in England the judges set all of the awards. You know juries will decide the guilt or innocence,
but then they leave the awards up to more learned people. And I think maybe that avoids some of these totally ridiculous, you know, like millions and millions of dollars Uh-huh. Yeah. That, that seems to make sense but leave it up to the more experienced person who knows how it fits into the, uh, kind of the rate for different . Oh, exactly. Each individual jury really doesn't have any perception of what, um, the going, you know, if you will the going, uh, award should be for a certain type of case, you know, within some kind of range. Uh-huh. When you get one way out like that but then really doesn't wind up penalizing the person that they went after. Who it really penalizes is their insurance company which then translates into higher rates for all of us. If they get some of those mega awards against them. Right. You know, they're not going to sit there and lose money. If they are losing money, then they're going to raise rates. Right. they So it all comes filtering down to us all individually. Right. And, uh, granted some people need to be compensated if they have really been wronged, you know.
Well, how do you feel about setting, like, well, for example, a car type accident where, uh, or some incident where someone loses a limb. Do you think the jury should have a dollar figure for losing an arm, a dollar figure for losing different body parts? I don't know. You know some of the health insurance is written that way. You know, that, uh, if you buy an accident and death or dismemberment policy, you know, it pre specified in the policy so much but I don't know that you can necessarily put a, a value on somebody's limb, uh, arbitrarily that is always going to fit in all cases. Uh-huh. I think maybe you look at, uh, the age of the person and their station in life and, and, uh, how much longer they have of work years that they would have to put up, you know, with, with that. I mean maybe you don't award an eighty-five year old guy the same thing that you would award a twenty-one year old. Huh. I, I think it has to be some kind of common sense applied there. And there may be where the judiciary is a little more learned about that type of thing because they can be schooled in that kind of thing, Uh-huh. and that can be part of continuing education, maybe for judges Yeah. I don't know. Right. You know, to get into the economics of things, uh, because if they wheel somebody into a courtroom and the jury's heart goes out to that person and they do one of these mega awards, it really, you know, ultimately is not penalizing the person that they're trying for get away. Yeah. That's true.
If it's a company, you know that they're insured. Unless the award is so staggering that it goes all beyond their layers of insurance which is another pet peeve of mine when they do award punitive damages, Huh. I think those should be uninsurable. I think those should have to be paid by the corporation itself that, that did the damage. Oh, out of As opposed to the insurance paying the bills, Yeah. Yeah. Uh-huh. Well, we're, Who, who For, for honest mistakes where they've done something and, and something happens. One of their employees causes damage or something. Sure. That's what they buy insurance for. do they get, they get insured, they get insured from other insurance companies or how does that work? Well, I was just talking about any company. Uh, let's just say a lumber manufacturing company Oh, okay, your talking about and, uh, somebody is on the premises
Sure. and one of the employees actually is driving by with a forklift and he pushes the wrong button and he drops a load of lumber on somebody and it injures, them. Okay. Well, Sure. Insurance should pay for that. But in some instances you're going to put companies out of business by taking that stance, if they have to take it out of their own retained earnings. Well I'm not talking about any loss. I was talking about only losses that are judged for a punitive damage which is another category of, the juries are awarding damages these days based on the person's actual injuries and what they are due. And then they are awarding a second amount as punishment to the company which is a usually a lot less. But it's an, an amount they're, designed to sting them a little for their, negligence. For gross wanton negligence in a claim. That, For, oh, Uh-huh. And unfortunately the the, lately the courts have been deciding that those could be paid for by insurance too. Uh-huh.
So again, it never really penalizes, the company doing the wrong. Right. That will, They can go right on doing the same old thing they always used to. Huh. And if, if they know some practice is wrong, you know, I'm not talking about your isolated occurrences, I'm talking more about the, you know, the thing that they know, maybe they're willfully manufacturing something that they know is hurting people out there and they continue to do it even after they become aware of that. Sure. Okay. Then I think they ought to have to pay something out of their own pocket. Go ahead Oh, okay Yeah, the, uh, subject is child care and how to determine child care, and that's, uh, an interesting one for me to talk about since I have no children, but I did run a child care facility for a while. Um.
And, uh, have some, Well, you should, you should have some opinions on that, then. I do have some thoughts on that, yeah. Uh, it's, uh, an interesting experience to be a surrogate parent for, or parent for a lot of people there, and, uh, it's also very interesting in terms of how people choose the child care facilities Well, I guess if I were going to choose, I mean, my first consideration would be safety. Right. My second consideration would be, uh, uh, health. Right. And, uh, I guess my third consideration would be, uh, warm, environment, warm personal environment. Well, right. Uh, in Texas, we have to meet certain state standards in order to operate on a, at an institutional level and at a, like a small home level so you meet the standards, but then after that there's, there's a lot more. I think it's important as the safety and health and that kind of stuff, is qualification of people who work there, and in hiring people who would work at the, uh, day care, the child care facility was very difficult to find qualified people, uh, in terms of, not just, just because somebody has a child or, uh, likes children doesn't really mean that they're qualified to give the child the kind of supervision and training that that, uh, Oh, absolutely As a matter of fact, I believe that the safety and, and health, uh, issues, uh, depend in a very direct way on the people who are working with the children. Exactly.
And that was the most difficult thing of all, to find the, the right people, the qualified people. And it's the most difficult of all for a parent, judge, uh because a person can be very nice and warm and loving, Oh, but if he's a space cadet and doesn't watch the children, and be aware of what the safety hazards are, Oh, exactly. And the other thing that's difficult in, uh, it's a too small setting, like a day care center is to find the right program of enrichment for the child, because you don't want to just warehouse the child, and I didn't want to run an institution where that was the case, where all we were doing were warehousing because the first four, five years or so important and you have to have the right kind of enrichment and that, that includes, uh, an atmosphere in which the child is safe and, and he's watched and his physical needs are cared for, but also his, uh, developmental needs are cared for, too. Maybe the right thing to do is to, uh, when a couple has a child, then they should both take, you say the first four or five years are the most important, and I think I would agree with that, they both take four or five years off and devote to parenting. That would be lovely. Get rid of all these child care centers, at least for young kids below the age of six. Uh-huh. And then uh, and then, of course, to make up for that, uh, the, uh, parents would have to work in their later years longer, you know, in other words, they probably would not work, may not, may end up not working at all in the twenties. Uh, Well, that's an interesting thought because, But then they have to work from age thirty or, or forty to age seventy or eighty or ninety. That would be okay That would, that would help on the other end, too, in, in terms of not warehousing people and letting people be productive for as long as they can be.
Right, well, you know, the, uh, uh, the world is changing uh, from from, uh, industrial, uh, base to, uh, information base and so what that means is you don't have to be physically powerful to work. Uh-huh. That's exactly right. All you have to do is have a sharp mind, and I believe that, uh, mental acuity is easy to sustain, maintain, if you just simply continue to exercise your mind. Oh. So I think a person could work, uh, into the seventies, eighties, even nineties for that matter, if they didn't have to do a lot of physical, uh, labor, they could maintain, uh, Your turn. Okay. Uh, I don't think they should abolish it I think, I think if they put it into force more often, they wouldn't have as many problems as they've got. But not for petty theft? Right. No, no. For major things like premeditated murder. Mass murders. Uh, you know, that type of thing. I don't think it should just be used loosely.
Well, it should be used as a deterrent do you think? Well, Or should it be used, uh, Yes, yes. To prevent these people from ever getting out on the street. By, you know, some technicality. And they go down the line ten years and then on some little technicality they get out and on the streets again doing the same they did before. Uh-huh. And, you know, that's about the only thing. Like for petty, for theft and, and stuff like that or manslaughter, you know, I don't think they should do that. Well, you know, there's this old, uh, Jewish, is it, saying about an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. Oh, well, I guess, if I, if it was someone in my family, I'd probably feel that way. You know, I've never had anybody in my immediate family, uh, murdered and so I really wouldn't know. But, but I feel like if I did, I probably would feel that way. Well, one of the things I was thinking about is, uh, you know, from society's point of view, if you put a value on each person, what you want to do is to maximize the end game value. So if you have someone that, that destroys that value uh, then what you want to take steps to, uh, minimize the loss. Uh-huh.
Of course, you have to also put value on the criminal. Right. So if you terminate him, that's a loss of value. Well, that's true So, you know, if you weight everyone equally, then you have to say, well the likelihood of not terminating him, if you don't terminate him, the likelihood is expected value of loss of life is greater than one person. In other words, you'd have to, you'd have to murder more than one other person uh, in order to justify taking his life. Besides him. Okay. Another way you could do it is weight this value by, uh, the value to society of the people. Uh, which is pretty delicate thing to do. But one way of doing it is, uh, by income. So if this guy doesn't make a great deal of money, which is often times the case, then then he's obviously not worth very much His life isn't worth very much then and so, uh, the likelihood that, you know, maybe expected, expected murders by him is, is, uh, integrated over the income of the people, uh, that he murders is maybe, you know, a loss of, who knows, eight hundred thousand dollars. Uh, but if he only, uh, integrated, you know, integrated income over the expected remainder of his life of is, uh, small, less than eight hundred thousand dollars, then you terminate him Of course, one of the things that happens if you use that algorithm, is you find that it's more easy, it's easier to, uh, to, uh, terminate older people than younger people since the integration of their income over the rest of their lives is going to be less. Which means, well Right. I suppose you could say, well that has something to do with potential for rehabilitation. Potential. I mean that's, that's the key right there. Potential.
Uh-huh. Now, are they, are they rehabilitative or, or not. Now that's all fine and well and, and, uh, good philosophical. But if you're involved yourself, personally Uh-huh. uh, I know I have a friend whose, uh, son was murdered, uh, on the night before his sixteenth birthday. And let me tell you, uh, I, I knew them personally, uh, not intimately, but quite well and, uh, you're talking about real trauma. I mean trauma that extends beyond the counting of bodies. I can imagine. The father, you know, of course, a parent losing a teenage child is about as bad as it could possibly get, I think, in terms of psychological impact. Yes. Uh, and, Was he murdered? Did they find who killed him? Oh, yes. They found him and he is on trial for capital murder. So it hasn't been a long time ago. Just recently.
Uh, well, actually he has, I, I'm sorry. He was convicted, uh, and, of course, now, you know, and you go through two or three hundred years of appeals process but Yeah, yeah. That appeals process, I mean, it's what, you know, really, you know, just drags out and out and out. My brother-in-law here in Texas, his, by marriage, my sister's, uh, husband, his sister was murdered down here by a guy in, in, well actually in Houston and, uh, he, Okay. Go ahead. Uh, well, you know, uh, I think public service is a worthy thing and as a matter of fact there are a lot of programs, uh, such as Peace Corps that promote that. Uh-huh Probably the most popular one but, uh, one that is not typically recognized as such is the Boy Scouts. Huh Uh, I know that because my son is a, a scout now and, uh, is thinking about his Eagle and, uh, in order to get Eagle, you have to have merit badges in, uh, citizenship in the community citizenship in the nation, citizenship in the world Right . and you have to do a public service project. Uh, in which leadership is the key element. Uh-huh.
I, uh, I think the question is posed somewhat strangely because, uh, it's talking about a requirement for public service Uh-huh and, of course, the Peace Corps, the Boy Scouts is a, is a voluntary activity. Right. Uh, I, I think that might be talking, referring to, uh, something, kind of, uh, alternative to the draft, you know. Either you have, uh, military service or some sort of alternative, nonmilitary service for a few years. Right, of course, uh, uh, military service falls under the category, uh, of a public service. Right, right. And, so, uh, one of the things that would fulfill the, at least the nominal, uh, qualifications set forth in the charge is military service or draft. Huh . Right, right. Uh, but I agree with you, that probably is not what was comprehended. There are other things such as civil service uh, which many people, uh, are lifelong employees of Well, Uh-huh. Right.
but I suspect that was not what they had in mind either. More of a voluntary kind of thing Yeah. or, uh, Yeah, yeah for, for years there has been an idea batted around of having some sort of alternative, uh, public service for, uh, young people to go into, uh, after high school. Uh-huh. Uh, kind of in lieu of the draft for, for people who don't, uh, who, you know, are conscientious objectors or don't otherwise want to be in the military, you know. Say, okay, well you can go into the military or you can do this other thing for one or two years to kind of serve the community and, and learn about things. And it's interesting because I, I'm not a particular fan of the military but I have seen a lot of people, a lot of young guys go in that don't have really a clue as to what they want to do with their lives and aren't terribly disciplined, you know, even just personal discipline about what they want to do and they come out and they, they at least have, now they have at least some marginally marketable skills and more discipline. And they have, uh, you know, in, in some cases they have a greater self-esteem because they can say, they can see that, you know, if I do something or submit my own will to the will of the sargent or whatever, at least for a short period of time, I can accomplish a lot and it, it's a good lesson for a lot of young men to learn. That they don't need to be, you know, cowboys. They don't need to be out there and, uh, you know, constantly flaunting their ego to get things accomplished. And, you know, for some, for some young men, that's good.
For me, it would have been lousy idea, uh, because I, I did have the personal discipline. Why? And I went to college for four years and got out, you know, Why is that? so. But, uh, you know, for some people that's good. I, I don't particular like the fact that it's the military, you know, and the whole point of the military is to kill people essentially. As, as an instrument of U S policy. Oh, no, no, no. It's to defend the nation against external evils. Well, that's one view And, and, you know, and that, that's another debate. But, uh, it's, uh, Well, it depends on whether you, whether we figure that we have that we have a defense oriented military or an aggressive, aggression oriented military. Uh-huh. Right, right and, well, it's, it, it seems pretty aggressive oriented, I mean, you, you look at the last military action which was in the Persian Gulf and wasn't anywhere near the United States
and it was, uh, you know, it was definitely a projection of U S power on the other side of the globe, so, at, at any rate, this is getting off the topic but my, my point was that there is, for people who don't want to do the military service, there, it would be neat if there were an alternative that could instill the same sort of personal discipline and sense of purpose and, uh, sense of community that the Boy Scouts, Actually, I've been involved in electronics a long time. Uh, in computers and I have really resisted the impulse to get one for the home. Uh, up until, I guess, maybe about a year and a half ago, Oh yeah. I got one for my son. A, a Macintosh uh, L C. Uh-huh. It's a real easy to use color, uh, computer and I got a very nice printer that goes along with it and he uses it for his school work. Uh-huh. Well, I've, I'm currently in school so I, I've had an I B M clone, I guess, for a couple of years now, which I've been trying, continually upgrading I guess. And, uh, I've found, I've found that I pretty much become addicted to it and I can't really, I've found that most of homework assignments really require some sort of computer, uh, simulation or analysis, so Huh.
it, it's very essential for me. Schools have them, uh, but lot of times so difficult to get on them at school. It's very easy, it's much more convenient to have one at home. Where you going to school? At Georgia Tech. I see. Yeah, so. In engineering? Yes, actually. So that explains all the, uh, computer assignments. Yeah, it, uh, Well, do you use your P C for things other than explicit computer work? Um, sure. I have some games, of course, which I play on there and, uh, uh, I have a program which allows me to access a, uh, weather data bank so I can, like, check up on the weather around the country or whatever which is a hobby. So, it provides other means other than just strict, uh, you know, computations and so on,
so. Have you, do you have a computer for yourself at home? No. No, I just have one for my son and I really sort of have the feeling that word processing is a big market for home computing. Oh, yeah. Yeah. At at work, uh, I'm a technologist, uh, and I, in the past, have done a great deal of, of, uh, system development just through, uh, software development programming. Uh, but now I find myself using the computer, even the computer at work is primarily a, uh, word processing system and a communication system. Uh-huh. Yeah, yeah. Do you use Email and like that? Yes. Emil is, probably pulls down a third of all my time. Yeah. It's, I, I, uh, I have modem night computer
so I can log into the the, uh, network at Georgia Tech and access my account through there, which is, which can be useful. But, uh, yeah that's, that and word processing is while I tend to, I mean, obviously, I do most of my, almost all of my report writing on, on my computer, uh, whether it's term papers or even some smaller homework assignments. Uh-huh. So it's, it's really become, I don't know, really become my mainstay I guess. I can't even remember, actually I don't think I've ever used a typewriter in, in my life to do a, a to do a report. Because my family, when I was growing up, we got a basic computer. T R S Eighty when they first came out. Uh-huh. And I even used that to do my first reports when I was in junior high, so Huh. Well I'm a old-timer. I did my Master's thesis on, uh, a typewriter. Oh, yeah. Uh, I rented an I B M Selectric. Oh. And it was a pretty big deal. Yeah. It must have been tough.
It's a little bit strange for me. I, I did my Master's thesis, uh, last year and I did that on a computer and it seems like, I just can't imagine how people did it before. It must have been just so much, so much work Yeah. It, uh, well, you know, it's just, it was just a completely different world then. Yeah. So, uh, so you used your son's Macintosh then? Do you, do you find it, do you like that kind of computer? I like it, yeah. I like it from a distance really. I, I see the packages on it, uh, that are available and it's nice. I really don't use it myself. Uh-huh. Uh, I, when I come home from work, I, I like to stay far away from computers and electronic things Yeah.
Huh. Uh, so I let my son do it and, Uh, of course, you know, there's, uh, there's an intellectual evolution taking place where, Yeah. it's sort of a joke but it's really true, the old-timers, even the people who are technologists don't know how to operate these electronic things like V C R and whatnot and the kids, they just take to it like candy. Yeah. Well, if, if, if the interface is there so that it's like fun to use and the challenge Regarding, uh, taxes. I, you know, taxes are really a necessary evil and, in a civilized society. But really, people get upset at taxes because you, it's more efficient to do things yourself. Right. And, uh, and so as, as a result, uh, you know, it's, it's a trade-off, you know, for the common good, you know. For, for the benefit of others, you know. How much of your resource should you dedicate to, uh, making things work for others? Have you, uh, you know, ever thought, you know, just how much of that money should, should go to other people that really don't deserve it? Uh, well yeah I know it's, it's a lot, you know that, uh, that I feel like, you know, just like you said, that, there's just so much that you can do yourself. That you take care of your own self that you don't need the money for but they're giving it to other people that don't really need it either,
but yet they accept it. Well, the thing of it is, if I wanted to just, uh, you know, permanently become a book reader, I guess I could just, uh, you know, uh, go on public assistance, uh, you know look for, uh, look for people to, uh, take care of me. Like so many people do. Uh-huh. And, uh, probably a good woman, right? Right Just, you know, just, just con somebody to take care of me. And then you don't have to be on the tax roll. Right. But, uh, but taxes are, are very difficult kind of thing and everybody really hates it. It was very timely. I, I, I always over pay my, my deductions so I wind up with my, getting money back on my, uh, from my, uh, withholding. Uh-huh. So, uh, you know, that, that's always a smile. But, of course, you know, I've, I've paid it in and I should calculate it better. Right
You are you in business for yourself? No. I, I, I work for the F B I. So I, I'm a federal employee. Right. Yeah. Guess I don't sound like it huh? Uh, well, I no I think that people that work for the government are just as against taxes as, as everybody else, you know. Unless you work for Internal Revenue Yeah, I belong . Oh I, I've got all four feet in the trough, you know, being a federal employee. Yeah. And, and so, but, but I can understand that, uh, that, you know, the, uh, who gets benefits. Like every, every time there is a, a bond issue you know, I vote no on every one of them. Uh-huh. Right. I'm, I, but there,
this is, this is, tax not tax revolt country. I mean there's too many, every one of us, most of us have our, have all four feet in the trough, you know. Plus our snout, right up to our ears. Yeah. So, you know, it's not exactly that kind of a place that, that you want to, you know, get into a tax revolt situation. Right. But, uh, uh, the, uh, the local taxes here, I, I, in this particular area, uh, you know, I've, uh, I think I pay about, uh, oh thirty-five hundred for, for taxes on my four bedroom house, you know. And which is a lot of money. Right. and, uh, and so as, as people get older and older, uh, you know, they think about retirement and that sort of thing Uh-huh. and, and they, they're building old people's homes, uh, you know, at tax expense. Well I think, you know, the old people ought to just bail out of here and go where it's cheaper. At thirty-three hundred dollars or thirty-five hundred dollars I'm paying in taxes, why I, I could go down to Bulverde and probably rent a, rent a house for that, right? Yeah, that's right. You know. In, in, instead, it's, it's the taxes here so.
Yeah. Course I don't know whether I want to go to Bulverde or not, you know or Seguin or someplace like that. Yeah. Yeah. But, uh, there's certainly lots of inexpensive places where the services are poorer. And, and I think really the only place you can really reduce the amount of taxes you pay is to move to an area where the services are poorer. If you're not going to use them, then you want to be in, in environment. That's a strategy I think that the people have to, have to take. Is, is how to be able to, to lessen their cost of living. You know, I'm, I'm five or six years before I'm eligible to retire and, and I'm saying well, you know, I really can't stay here, uh, as a retiree. After you retire, yeah. It's too expensive. Yeah. I'm going to have go out and, you know, in, you know, East Fork someplace. And, and, do my thing, you know. Right. My parents are in the same situation, you know. They, their home is paid for but still their taxes are so high, that, you know, my father doesn't feel like he can retire because they couldn't pay their taxes. And they have no children in school or, you know, anything now.
They don't use any of those services that a lot of the taxes go towards. Right. They, they redecorated in nineteen seventy-five, you know. Uh, yeah. And they're not doing it again, you know. Yeah. So. Well, it's certainly, uh, uh, you must be a T I employee. You must be what? You must be a T I employee? No, I'm not You're not a T I, who do you work for? I, I don't work. I'm a student. I go to school. I'm in nursing school You, you're, Okay.
Uh, generally I get, uh, you know, most of my news, uh, in the, you know, weekly magazines like TIME, NEWSWEEK and, and, uh, U S NEWS AND WORLD REPORT. With, with occasional smatterings of, of, uh, you know, THE WALL STREET JOURNAL and, of course, the local paper. Uh-huh. But, uh, my, my only complaint is I really don't enough time to, to look at the articles every day and, and go through a paper, you know, exhaust the details. So that's why I concentrate on weekly magazines. Do you think that the weekly magazines provide you with as much detail information as you'd like? Well, yes. I, I, well, I, I don't think I have the time to really become a student in every article. Uh-huh. And, and so I, I, I like the weekly magazines, uh, because it gives me, you know, the high points of what's going on. Uh-huh. Uh, but many times, uh, you know, the, the local, uh, the local news kind of suffers, you know. But here I am, you know, cheek by jowl with our nation's capital and, Oh, that's right. You're very close actually. It's almost a, uh, bedroom community for the capital. Yeah. Yes. exactly. Well, when, when the capital gang always talk about the people inside the beltway, I'm saying to myself, hey guys, I'm inside the beltway
But, uh, it turns out that, uh, that, that the C N N is, I think, is great. And for, for things like hurricanes and fast breaking events Uh-huh. but generally, they're, they're, they're more sound bitish, you know, kind of thing and, and I don't really, uh, you know, I don't really feel as though I've a gotten sufficient, uh, you know, dose of news that way. Yeah. A lot of my information comes from several sources. Probably pretty high up on the list is National Public Radio. Uh, which I like. Uh-huh. Yes. Uh, I, I think it's fairly objective and I always like the letters that they read which tend to accuse them of being too liberal and too conservative. And while there's an inherent, uh, filtering process going on just by the letters they choose to read, uh, I always figure it's a good thing when any given group is being accused by each side of, uh, favoring the other side. That's, that's potential indication of balance. And, generally, I really do believe they are pretty balanced. Uh, I also read TIME magazine and we get one of the daily newspapers around here where we go through various sections of the, uh, various, uh, of the articles and the front section and, uh, Well the MERCURY and the, and the, and the CHRONICLE are the only things that are really, can stand up there. Oh. Oh, you
did you use to live around here? Uh, Redwood City. I use to work at Anteks. Oh, okay. Oh, yeah, okay. I know exactly where that is. Anteks, Amdahl and places like that. Yeah, we, we get the MERCURY which I generally think is actually a pretty good newspaper Yeah. the newspaper I really been impressed with it when I've read it at times, at, well the LOS ANGELES TIMES. Which I've found to be a, uh a very good quality uh, newspaper Uh-huh. and I like a lot of the articles there. the other thing when you said, we don't have cable T V, so but the other thing that you referred to that always sounds really interesting to me is, is called C SPAN. Yes. I, I've, I enjoy, see they have, uh, we have two, the, both C SPANS here. But, but really, the, on the public T V, you know, MACNEIL LEHRER is one, is an hour's program that I always, Both?
Uh-huh. if, if I watch any news program, it will be MACNEIL LEHRER. And, and occasionally C SPAN. Uh-huh. I, I like a, I saw the, uh, the, uh, the, the tapes that were, that were run of Marion Berry's drug bust was, the whole thing was, was run on that and and, and also, they have the, uh, the, uh, uh, PARLIAMENT'S QUESTION AND ANSWER PERIOD. Oh, I never say that. *listen: should "say" be "saw"? That would have been interesting. It, Yeah. I, I think that's always fascinating. I wish, I wish we had something. when, when it first, uh, you know, when it first tuned in on that I, you know, it's one that's, I think it was, somebody was just scarcely just, just ripping the hell out of another person. And I, and everybody was, you know, making noise in the background. But it's usually the Prime Minister, right? Here's this dude in a wig
Thatcher, Major . and I said to myself, it's another Monty Python that I didn't know about And then, and then up jumps Margaret Thatcher off her green bench and I said oh, it's Parliament Which could be another of Monty Python. Yeah. So I, I thought to myself, I can't wait. I'm going over to, to Britain in mid, you know, in mid-May. I, I, I'm going to, uh, you know, you know, approach my, uh, you know, this is how I discovered, you know, the the Prime Minister's, you know, question and answer period, you know. I, I have seen that and, uh, a, aside from the level of wit which is much higher than, generally, in American politics, uh, which I really enjoy. I really like the fact that they have a chance to ask hard, real questions I think. And it's unlike the fairly controlled, uh, press conferences that Presidents of the United States have here where they, they always seem, Yeah. Okay, uh, my favorite show is MASTERPIECE THEATRE and it has been for a long time but I feel almost ashamed to say that to anybody now because I have never met anybody who likes it. Do you by any chance?
Oh, yes. You do! Yes, very much. Well, wouldn't you know As a matter of fact, I prefer public television. Uh-huh. And, uh, I have, particularly enjoy the English comedies, and the English mysteries. Yeah, Yeah, I watch mysteries too. Is that what you're referring to? Yes. Okay, yeah. That is good. I like, uh, do you read? Vociferously. Okay,
well that's the reason why I like both of those programs is because they're kind of based on books. Yes. And, the plots are more, um, challenging, you know, than the sitcoms of regular T V. Well, unfortunately for us at least here in the United States, we, the only access we have to that of course is public television. Yeah. I'm, I'm not a great television watcher in any respect but, uh, the watching, what I do watch is, uh, usually news and whatever is on public television. Any kind of, I also uh, am very fond of great performances, in that regard. Uh-huh, yeah. Me too. But, uh Did you stay up late and catch this RED DWARF? No Oh, that was a scream. no, no as a matter of fact, uh, Turner Broadcasting, has been uh, broadcasting all of the James Bond movies, every night this week,
Uh-huh, Really. so I have concentrated on watching James Bond movies, this week I used to like him too, he was my hero. In fact, I like Sean Connery to this day. Well, they're showing uh, LIVE AND LET DIE at this moment, Yeah. and, it is the first appearance of Roger Moore as double oh seven. Yeah. So, Oh, he can never cut it No, no that's true. I was just thinking that today, he did, well, in some of the later movies he looks very effeminate, in his early movies. Yeah, Yeah, yeah, he does.
Whereas, uh, Sean Connery has maintained the, uh, how would you, uh, ruddy look, Uh-huh, yeah. I liked his accent too. And, he can even be in movies that are not, uh, uh, sexually oriented, and he still comes off great. Well, you know he was, when was it, last year or year before last, he was voted the sexiest actor in movies, or something. He is. Yeah, he had my vote double I mean the man is sixty-two years old. I don't care But, uh, but otherwise you know we, uh, with P B S and so forth. And I, I particularly enjoy, I don't know whether you've had a chance to watch it on P B S but uh, the series, uh, YES MINISTER? Yeah. Oh, what's that about? That was about a, the Interior Minister, it was a comedy, Oh, yeah,
yeah. the Interior Minister of, in England, with the permanent secretary, and bureaucracy and all that. Uh-huh. Right. Right, I, I've seen it several times. It's a scream, but I have to go to bed, I have to get up and, and work the next morning. I wish they'd put those, that's why I say, did you stay up late to watch this RED DWARF. It came on after DOCTOR WHO, on Saturday nights, here at least. Uh-huh. And it should, of course I really it was, I don't think they should show it during prime time, but still, it was funny. Yeah. Yeah,
I know. Well I, I, I'm not much of a television watcher. I, I read as I said, and, uh, quite a bit. Uh-huh. I read about two or three novels a week, in addition to all the technical stuff. Yeah. What, what do you do? What kind of work do you do? I'm a Payroll Clerk. Just an accounting clerk. At T I? No, uh, I have a friend who works for T I and I work for a tire service, here in, Oh, I see. I'm from Dallas. Uh-huh. Well the last two people who have called, both worked for T I and I just wondered. Yeah,
yeah, it could be T I I think, probably are participating more than anybody else, but I needed the money. This is five bucks here. I think that's something we all Yeah, really. Do you work for T I? No, no, I work for G T E. In Maryland, Really? yes. How did you hear, oh we're not even supposed to be talking about this though, are we? I guess not. How did I hear about it? Well I work, you know, they are gathering a data base for voice processing. Uh-huh.
And, that's my field of work also. Oh! So I, I know the people at T I who are doing this and I heard about it, so I called them and asked if I could participate. And, uh, You know send in the forms et cetera and uh so forth. Oh. Right. We could go back to television shows. Well, you know, speaking of public TV, have you caught any of this series on the Bible? Yes, I have. I've heard that it's really against the, well I mean that it's coming out with the idea that the Bible's not true. Well, no. That's, uh, you could interpret it that way. Uh-huh. Uh, I, I think what they are trying to say, is that there is a great deal of historical truth, but the interpretation that actually got into the writing of the Bible itself is probably uh, after the what, uh, was is it the King James Version when the committee did it, wrote the translation, that so much was lost in the translation, particularly since most of the translations were in Greek. Yeah. Well, for example. In Greek there are seven different words for love.
Right. Okay, so you can have, there's one word for love of your brother, one word for love of your wife, one word for, you know, uh, love of your father, and that sort of thing. So, in, as to those types of interpretations, uh, really made a difference in how one might interpret the Bible now, and what it's at. Uh-huh. So that's, you know, you can look at it as though they are saying it's not true, but there's too much historical fact involved just from the uh, the histories that are, were developed around that time, that are available. To deny that, at least the majority of it is true. Yeah. So, you know, it depends on how you look at it. Yeah. You can look at it, you know, if you want to say that it's proven that it isn't true, then you can very much look at it that way. I guess if you're looking for that, you're, Yeah, well, Well, you can interpret that the, what the T V show, in the same way that you can interpret the Bible. that, uh, Uh-huh. So,
Really. But, uh, as, as far as that goes, I, we at least agree on what we enjoy. Yeah, that's right. But, uh, I don't know if there is, there is a time limit on this, so, uh. Yeah. Surely we've made it. I think so too. Let's just, it's been very pleasant talking to you, It was very nice talking to you. and have a good evening. You too. Good night! Bye-bye. Uh, Robert what do you, uh, think, what substances do you think are the most, uh, likely causes of air pollution? Um, gee, I don't, I mean, I, I guess it's the stuff that comes out of automobile exhaust, you know, they say in the paper nitrous oxides and ozone and all that.
Right. So, I believe them but I'm not a chemist. Do you, uh, do you think that those are bigger contributors than things like acid rain and some of the pollutants that come from, uh, industrial areas, factories and so on? I don't really know, um, I grew up in Los Angeles and have felt like I was victimized by air pollution. I was going to say, and, and you, so you understand smog I understand it very well and in fact I was a private pilot there, Uh-huh. and I can remember very etched, etched clearly in my mind, uh, flying and coming up above the smog layer at about three thousand feet and looking back down and, and really being unbelieving at, what looked like a, uh, Wow. it just looked liked peanut butter. My word. Thick and brown and so on. And that was, a few years ago? This was quite a few years ago. This was in the nineteen sixties. I, I wonder if it's any better now. Because they, uh, California has such strict rules, um, about emissions and so on.
People say that it is somewhat better. Right. Um, I, I don't know if you heard about the, uh, recent legislation in, uh, Colorado, uh, against a power company, uh, that's actually on Indian land, I believe, but, uh, it has been ruled against, uh, regarding air pollution because they think that it's causing terrible smog over the Grand Canyon. And, um, particularly in the winter months. Um. So they, it was, uh, a landmark case because it's unusual to, um, I can, they, they were talking about shutting it down, or if it didn't comply and so on. So did it burn coal? I don't know that, the information is one of those wire services kind of news, pieces of news, you know, so it's hard, I never did see the full story, so I don't know. Yeah. But they said that, that it really caused so much smog over, uh, the Grand Canyon in the winter months that they couldn't do the, uh, piloting, uh, you know, the helicopter trips and that sort of thing. Which would be horrible, because the, there's nothing, Um. Yeah. I mean that's such a spectacle.
It would be a shame to ruin it. Yeah. Uh, what do you think individuals could do, or society could do to alleviate this problem. Uh, I don't, uh, I don't know whether we could do a whole lot as individuals. Uh, maybe just take good care of our cars, and make sure we keep our pollution devices clean and all that sort of thing. Um, Right. apart from that, I, I don't know what we can do as individuals. What do you think we can do? Uh-huh, you think, it's more, more to society. Well I guess I kind of agree there. I, uh, on an individual basis there isn't a lot we can do about a lot of things but if we are concerned about it then we certainly can, uh, force, uh, government, uh, that we elect to deal more seriously with it. Yeah. And I do think that we have a responsibility there. I must admit I'm not always real politically active but I do think that, um, Congress has backed down much too much on some of the air pollution standards. Yeah. And it's brought the, they, uh, really listen to
the, the, uh, lobbyist and, uh, the car manufacturing companies have, uh, you know, have really pushed, they , all those restrictions are really too hard, we can't, we can't quite make that go and they don't and then we still live with air pollution. Yeah. Um, so I suspect that that's one thing that, that as individuals, we can do, make our voices known, perhaps to our legislators. But, um, as a society, I think we can do more and that's probably how we ought to do it. Uh, being individually responsible as, uh, in order to be group responsible. Yeah, I guess I'm, I'm to the point where I'm cynical enough that I really don't believe anything will happen unless, unless there's something economically justifiable about it. Right. And in the case of air pollution, it simply might turn out at some point down the road, to be so costly to have to live with air pollution in terms of health problems, and everything else that we'll spend the money that's necessary to, uh, to get rid of the source of it. Uh-huh. I suspect that the that there's going to have to be a lot of pressure, uh, come to bear on the companies that deal with it and probably the only way that can happen is for, um, governments to realize that they have to pay if companies don't. Yeah. And, uh, I don't know how long that, that will take. People also have to realize they can't have their cake and eat it.
So, if you don't want to burn coal for power, how about nuclear energy. Sure. Well we don't want that either. Exactly, yeah, right. How about investing in the sun. Well nobody wants to pay twenty-five cents a kilowatt hour, I don't think. Right. Uh, I probably wouldn't mind if it really came down to it. Well it's just the same thing with the car, uh, uh, the gasoline, now is a wonderful time to smack a fifty cent a gallon tax on gasoline, so that we don't, uh, run into the kind of problems we recently had Oh yes, yes, yes. and yet the government is not going to do that because people are too dependent and they don't want, they don't want to pay for it. So instead, we spend billions of dollars going to war. Yes. Uh, you know,
however, it might have had other causes. Certainly oil was a big factor. Oh certainly, yes. Um, and I think that's probably going to happen with, with such things as air pollution, when we, when we get serious about cleaning, about our motors in our automobiles then, uh, then maybe, you know, we'll have a little bit of help. Um, uh, Yeah. do you have any air pollution in your area? There's not really a lot here in Raleigh. Uh, once in a while we'll get some, uh, I think it kind of washes down from, uh, from your area Linda Oh no. That's what they, that's what they, You're talking about from, from the, uh, the middle, middle states, that, that have more factories and so on. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's what they say but it's it's not, it's not very usual and certainly we don't have the eye stinging variety that you get in the big cities. Yeah,
we really don't have that either. Although I think I can tell a difference in, I lived in this area for about twenty-five years and I think I can tell a difference in the comfort level, uh, particularly in the summer. Uh, you know, when it gets hot, and you have, the, that kind of a pressure from the pockets of air, uh, usually they say caused by exhaust. Uh-huh, uh-huh. Yeah. It seems to me that I'm more uncomfortable and, you know, my eyes sting more and so on and so on. So I suspect that it's, it's an ever growing problem. Yeah. Well I suspect that we've probably covered everything that we need to here. Right, I think, we've given them about seven minutes according to my watch It was nice talking to you. and I enjoyed the conversation. So did I. Bye, bye. Bye. Okay, well, my favorite, probably, all time T V show is STAR TREK. And I would it like that,
I, I like the adventure of it. And the idea that, that we would survive long enough to get to that point and be able to do these fantastic things in space. Uh-huh Uh-huh. And then I like the, they have a new one now. The STAR TREK THE NEXT GENERATION. Which it's an all new cast, but kind of the same idea, going out to new places and, and doing new things and finding out about different people, Right and I've, I've always liked that show probably the very best. Uh-huh. I think I've actually seen a number of STAR TREKS, one way or another over the years. Uh, although I never watched it regularly. I'm certainly acquainted with the character the characters. Uh-huh. And then I've seen some of the STAR TREK movies. Yeah, those, the movies are good too. And I, I guess all, most of the shows I like are, are kind of along the same line because they're all adventure Uh-huh. When I, when I started thinking about this, that those are some of my favorite shows, MCGYVER, because it's, it's only one person there, more than, uh, you know, instead of a cast of people, Uh-huh.
but he's always going out and inventing new things out of scrap, and grabbing what he can and, you know, pieces of baling wire and, and a few tires and all of a sudden he's got a hang glider and I don't think I, I've even heard of that show. You haven't? It's called MCGYVER? Uh-huh. And what is, what is he? He's like a semigovernment type agent. Who goes out then to, uh, works for the Phoenix Foundation, supposedly. Uh-huh. And, uh, his big thing is that he can take pieces of, little bits and pieces of string and baling wire and turn them into fantastic different things. He took a car battery and some wire and two washers one time and made a welder. Uh-huh. So he, he does all kinds of strange things like that. Oh, great. Boeing ought to hire him and give him a junkyard, and see if he could build a Seven Forty-Seven out of it. Yeah. See what we can come up with. Do you like the, uh, news shows, TWENTY TWENTY, SIXTY MINUTES, those kind of things? Well, uh, I used to watch SIXTY MINUTES as a matter of fact, and uh, and I used to like the show very much.
Uh-huh. But, unfortunately I find getting rid of your T V set, you do throw out some, some of the baby, with the bath water. Some of the little things, yeah. And uh, I just decided I had to do that. I think, in part because it was easy for me to become addicted to it, I mean I could just sit mindlessly in front of a T V set for hours. Uh. And I just realized, I was sort of like an alcoholic, if I didn't get the booze out of the house, I was going to drink. Oh. So. I guess I haven't ever had any trouble with that. I have more or less, I have my favorite shows and I usually make time in my day or my week, you know, to watch those. Yeah. But, for the most part, I try, I have small kids and I try and keep it on just a minimum amount of time, really when they're up. Yeah, yeah. Because they're, I guess that, that, that falls ,
and one of my other favorite shows is SESAME STREET because of the kids. I like that real well. Right, well, when my kids were little, I did have a T V set and I did watch a lot of SESAME STREET and a lot of ELECTRIC COMPANY, as well. I don't think they have that on anymore. Well that would be a shame. I haven't seen the ELECTRIC COMPANY in a long time. I, I remember it when I was younger of, you know, catching it on P B S, but, uh, I don't think they show, it must be in, maybe it's in, if it was in repeats, but they're not making new ones. Huh. I haven't seen it in a long time. But SESAME STREET is still really good. Yeah. How about MISTER ROGERS, is he still around?
Yes. Yeah. They still show MISTER ROGERS. I don't think he's making new ones, but they repeat all the old ones. I see. I see. So that's still a real good show too. I, that one tends to come on earlier in the day than I want to turn the T V on Uh-huh. SESAME STREET comes on from like nine to ten, which is a good time and everybody is up and had breakfast and dressed and ready to go, so it's the timing of, of it is good, besides the what's on. Right. I figure your children are preschool? Yes, I have two little ones. Yeah.
So they like that. Yeah, I seem to remember those shows being on in the afternoon. They come on both. They come on like from nine to ten and then from, uh, five to six. Uh-huh, okay. They just repeat over again. Which is also, Okay. that's another thing that's good about it, when it comes on right in the dinner hour. I can feel like I can let them sit in front of the T V and watch, and they're watching something worthwhile, while I can make dinner and do things I need to do without them under foot. Yeah. Yeah, little, with little kids the T V set really is a, I mean I used it as a pacifier. Yeah. I'm not sure it was that great for my children, but they turned out okay, so.
Uh, it didn't hurt them any. Yeah. Some shows are good for, I think some shows, some, STAR TREK, I, for the imagination of it all. The idea, I, I think that's one of the things I like about STAR TREK. Uh-huh. And is, is the, even in for kids watching some of it can be a little violent sometimes and stuff. I don't let my little ones watch it, but the imagination of, look what we can do, you know, in the future, this is, perhaps, this will be possible. That kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, well, I think we've covered most of my favorite T V shows. Well, I'm trying to think if I ever even had a favorite one at one time, uh. Let's see, how about, uh, MAN FROM UNCLE? I do seem to is that the one where they, uh, he always got this, this tape recording that self-destructed?
That's MISSION IMPOSSIBLE. Uh, MISSION, that's right, MISSION IMPOSSIBLE. Yeah, I used to watch that. In fact, I can still remember a couple of those. They were, I thought those were very good. Yeah, they always have, I've, I've seen some of them on repeats. Yeah. That uh, they always had a good plot. Huh. It kind of kept you guessing on, on, uh, what was going to happen next Right. Right. You,
How they're going get out of their latest scrape. Yeah, I do remember that. And, uh, I remember as a kid my parents watching the ED SULLIVAN Show. That was really the big deal in our household, was the ED SULLIVAN SHOW. Oh, yeah, every Saturday night? Yeah, I I guess it was a Saturday night, and I went to see the movie THE DOORS a couple of days ago, and they had this scene, uh, that portraying THE DOORS' appearance on the ED SULLIVAN SHOW. Huh. They even had somebody portraying Ed Sullivan, and it was very, very funny. I think it was the funniest part of the, of that movie. Um. Well, I don't know, was there any, I remember the MILTON BERLE SHOW even, I was, I was,
I'm not old enough to recall that one well I guess, I have to admit that I am My T V viewing started sort of mid-sixties, so. I see. My folks didn't, my folks, I'm not even sure if we had one when I was really little. That may be why, they probably didn't have a T V until I got to be, you know, grade school or so. Yeah. And the shows that I like now, they wouldn't let me watch. I had to catch them all on repeats. Like STAR TREK, they thought that was much too violent for small children. So Huh. I, I, I ended up watching a lot of these things on, you know, repeats in the afternoons or something. Yeah. That's, that's interesting. Uh, I think it's interesting that parents think that their small children learn violence from TV, people were just as violent before T V was invented, maybe even more so.
Yeah. But I guess that's, that's a different topic isn't it? Probably so Well, I think that's about, uh, that's about covered it for me, so I think I'll say good-bye and we'll talk another time perhaps Yeah. Well, it was nice talking to you. Tell me, tell me where you're calling from. I'm calling from Garland, Texas. Garland, Texas. Uh-huh. All right. I'm in Where are you from? I'm in Raleigh, North Carolina. Oh, my goodness. I didn't know they did it long distance. Yeah,
I think they're doing it, trying to do it, or I hope they're trying to do it all over the country, because they need to collect all kinds of different different dialects. Yes. Well, it was nice talking to you Same here. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Uh, the last movie that I saw, I, I don't go to that many so I'll just have to talk about the ones that I went to see, but, uh, it was AWAKENINGS with, uh, Robin Williams and, uh, Peter DeNiro. Okay. Yes, uh-huh. Have you seen it. No unfortunately I haven't, I heard it's really good, but. It is. I just have to take my hat off to Peter DeNiro.
Uh-huh. He is one of the best actors I've ever seen. It's, there's a point where, the, uh, the show is about these, uh, catatonic type people that, this doctor discovers a drug that brings them back to the, the living, more or less, but it wears off. Uh-huh. And the way it wears off is he goes through all these spastic, you know, uh, it starts off with like a tic, Uh-huh. and then it gets to where he can't, you know, control his movements at all. And it was just so realistic. The way, you know, you have to just keep reminding yourself that he's an actor. Uh-huh. What does, uh, is Robby, Robin Williams, does he have a funny part in it? No, it was very serious, very
Oh how does he do serious. He's good, he's, he's talented, boy, he is. I've only seen him in funny stuff and so. I know, me too. But, uh, well, what was that show, um, uh, I want to say Garfield but that wasn't it. Yeah, uh, GARP, THE WORLD ACCORDING TO GARP. Yeah, THE WORLD ACCORDING TO GARP. He wasn't always funny in that show, was he. I didn't read, see the, the movie, I read the book but I, I did too.
That's why I was thinking it couldn't be just a totally funny part Yeah, in fact, it got some pretty serious deep parts in it so. Yeah, right. Yeah. Well what have you seen? I think the last movie that we went out to see was DANCES WITH WOLVES. Oh, I saw it. Good, we've both seen one Did you cry through it? Yes, the whole way It was telling a friend, I, I said, I only cried twice, but each was about half an hour long, so. Where did you cry. Um, let's see,
when I, each time that I thought that the Indians were going to get killed, I cried. Uh-huh. Um, I cried the first time when the, um, the wagon man got killed, when they attacked him. Uh-huh, yeah, yeah. And, uh, I think from there on, all the way through the movie. Let's see what else did it. Um, what other parts. I can't remember any of the other parts right off now. I cried when the horse got killed and when the wolf got killed I don't remember when the horse got killed. Oh, when he was riding back to the settlement and they shot his horse out from under him. Oh, yeah. And then he, uh, the next day he looked out there and saw those buzzards, you know Uh-huh. And that horse has been such a pal to him, when he was alone. Yeah. You can tell I'm an animal lover, you can hear my dog
Unfortunately we don't have any animals, so, uh. Yeah. It was a beautiful story, it really was. It, there was a lot of pretty scenery, too, in that movie. Uh-huh, uh-huh. What did you think about the buffalo scenes. Oh, I thought it was awful, and so graphic, That was, Yeah. I mean I hadn't even imagined it, you know. I think we all heard the story of the slaughter of the buffalo. Uh-huh. Um, I had a friend who had fixed some, uh, chili, buffalo chili and, about a week before went to see the movie. Oh, oh. Of course they raise them now, you know, to eat. Uh-huh,
yeah, it's not, But she, we were both feeling so guilty about enjoying this chili after seeing that. Uh-huh, well at least you know that it wasn't same situation that the buffalo died in. No it wasn't Um, I thought the scenes when the buffalos running, though, were beautiful, like that was great. Oh, yeah. And there were so many of them. I didn't know that, that many buffaloes alive, much less in one place. Yeah, really. So that was pretty. And to think about how it just changed the whole landscape, you know, you could follow this, this beaten down path, Yeah. and it sounded like thunder and earthquakes and that sort of thing. I wonder how they kept up with them, though, it seemed like the buffaloes were moving so fast.
I know. I guess they graze, though, that wouldn't be a problem. Yeah, yeah. Uh, have you seen any of the behind the scenes, uh, of, of that movie. No, huh-uh. It was, they tried to keep it, you know, as very close to real. Uh-huh. I mean like Kevin Costner did all of his own scenes and, uh, they had to teach a wolf how to, to howl. Oh. That's the, part they had trouble finding was wolves I guess they're just not domesticated, or, or, Yeah, what, they just don't howl that much anymore.
I could bring them in with my dogs and set a siren off and that's all they'd have to do Yeah. Well that's funny. Well, I think we've made it. Oh is that five minutes, is that, I don't know, is it five or three. Okay, oh, I'm not sure. I'm not either. Okay, well I think we're, we're, we've done okay, though. Okay, me too. Well thank you for calling. Well thank you. And I hope you enjoy some more good movies Yeah,
you too. Bye, bye. Bye, bye. Okay. Okay. I was trying to get my children quiet for a minute. Okay. Yes, a deep Well, credit cards, boy, that's an easy topic, isn't it it is It's one we all hold dear and near, I'm sure. Oh, yes, yes. I guess I've had some good experience and some bad experience with them. Yeah, most of mine's been pretty good, although I'm, I guess I'm like a lot of other people, now, I'm trying to, to pay off my credit cards and, and, uh, I've done pretty good at it. Yeah. Uh-huh
Well, I do fairly good until I go in the store and I see something I want You know not need, want. Yeah. Uh-huh, there is a big difference There's a big difference there. Yeah, yeah. But most of mine that I use is strictly gasoline. Yeah, oh yeah, I, I do that, I do that, but the rest, like I said, the rest of them I've been trying to, to pay off and, uh, get back on a cash basis, except for gas. Uh-huh. It's too easy to, to run into the gas station. Oh, it sure is especially when you work out of town and everything, that way And, . Uh-huh. At least that's for me. Yeah,
yeah. Yeah. So. But yeah, I've, I've talked to some who's really had some bad experience and kind of knock on wood I haven't yet, not bad. Yeah, well that's, You know, I just, I'm just shocked at the end of the month, to see what damage I have did, but I try to keep it pretty reasonable. Yeah, yeah. Well, I've been pretty lucky in that respect. I don't charge, like I say, I've, I been trying to, to not charge except for emergencies. Uh-huh. And, uh, so, but I haven't really had any bad problems with credit cards. There's, you know, they have, uh, wonderful features, they're there when you need them. You know, like in emergencies, or whatever. Yeah,
yeah. And then they have bad drawbacks, too. I mean high interest, Yeah. It's, it's awfully easy. it's like paying twice. That's true, that's true, Yes, so, . I try to, I did switch to one, uh, sponsored by the credit union, though. That seems to be a pretty low interest. Yeah, compared to some of the other ones. Oh, uh-huh. Yeah, yeah. And you don't have an annual fee there, and that helps. Oh, yes. Uh, we used to have, you know, like several, but right now, we're just more or less at American Express, you know, Uh-huh.
and that way we can go ahead and pay it off when it comes in. Yeah, that's one way to do it, because that, that forces you to pay for it instead of saying, well, I'll just pay on it this month Yeah. Pay fifteen, yeah. and Yes, I know, yeah. Yeah. And when you pay fifteen dollars a month it sure takes a long time. Takes a long time, that's right. It sure does. And now without the benefits of being able to deduct interest off, off your income tax that's, you know. Uh-huh. Of course it's been going down for a number of years, but this is the last year you can take anything. So.
Uh-huh, yeah. So. Well, I've enjoyed talking to you. Well, I've enjoyed talking to you. And maybe we'll get to talk again. Okay. Okay, bye-bye. Bye-bye. Okay, well, I can tell you pretty much my two favorite shows Okay. and they kind of are in different spectrums, I think. Um, one of them is QUANTUM LEAP Okay. and the other one is NIGHT COURT. And I think, I think they're real different, I mean, I don't think they have anything in common, um, QUANTUM, LEAP has, I mean QUANTUM LEAP is kind of a comedy in its own way, I guess,
but, uh, mostly it's, it's kind of science fiction, and, it's, um, it's adventure and things like that Uh-huh. and then NIGHT COURT is just pure, you know, weird fun, you know, just, it's, it's nothing serious about it at all. So, I don't know why the two of them happen, to be my two favorite shows, but they, that's the way it is, so. It's funny that those are my two, my husband's two favorite shows, too, and I enjoy both, watching both of them, but I used to didn't like NIGHT COURT Uh-huh. and I, and the only reason I think I like it now is because I've seen it so much and I'm involved with the characters, but, I used to think, um, Dan Fielding was just too, too vulgar and too crude for me. He is And I told my husband, that's the whole point, but Yeah,
that's right, I mean, I, I just, it's, I find him degrading at times. I guess that is the point, but sometimes it just, Well, they, they really have changed him though. If, If you've watched it this season, um, he's becoming, I mean, he still is in his own way degrading and everything, but, uh, he's involved in that charity, and, uh, it's taking up so much of his time and so much of his thought, that he really has, in fact, there was one show that he even turned down a date with some, you know, beautiful woman just because the idea that he was, his mind was on the ozone layer and, you know, global warming and all this other kind of stuff. Oh. And he, you know, was too depressed, you know, to, so that was part of, I guess, his character building or whatever, but, I think it adds a, probably adds a little bit of depth to his character. I haven't watched, um Which of course he needed yeah,
I think so, which in QUANTUM LEAP you get even though the person is involved in so many other people's lives, you still see a, a real person in those situations. He gets, um, he's doing amazing things Uh-huh. but he's doing them within the bounds of what a normal person would do Right, right, that's a good point, and I think that's, I like that. So what do you, what do you consider your favorite shows? Um, I think my favorite show is HUNTER. Okay. And, I, I like the old series better when, um Dede was in there. Dede, Yeah Yeah, I agree. and, um, so, uh, uh, and then the blond that they took out, the one that got killed
Yeah, I can't remember what her name is, but is, yeah, I didn't enjoy her. I, I, she was too much of a opposite of Dede, and I think that's what they try to do, but I think we wanted to see Dede there or somebody like her. Uh-huh. Well, but, see I read an article about, in T V GUIDE about, uh, about HUNTER, and about his, you know, latest, you know, his three girls, whatever you want to call them Uh-huh. and they say that, uh, that there was that there was like a conflict between her and him, uh, that they never really could get her into, uh, any character that they could use. I mean, you know, uh The second lady? yeah, the second one the blond Uh-huh. Yeah, you know, if you think about it, they didn't really interact hardly at all
They didn't. I mean, they were never partners. Yeah, she would go her way, and he would do his, Yeah. and I think that's what I didn't like. And, and, and even, even at the beginning Dede and, and Hunter would decide that one of them would go do this, while the other one would do, would go this, but, uh, it seemed like it was almost two different organizations you know, Uh-huh. like Hunter was the boss, and this other girl was not, and, you know, you kind of, you're wondering, you know, well when did this happen? Right. So, yeah, I, I kind of agree with that. And I like the new lady better, but I'd just as soon that they didn't have the romance there. I'd just as soon have the, the police story without all the romance. Well, I'm afraid that's what they, they really wanted to do, um,
Yeah, I think most shows were doing that, and then they went away from it Uh-huh. and now they're starting to go back to it, and maybe that's what the public wants, I don't know, but I just, I like the, the cut and dry solve the mystery, and that's what I always enjoyed about it. Yeah, well, see, there was that spark between Dede and Hunter for a while Yeah. but they, they like started it, and then they'd pull it back, and they'd start it and pull it back. And that really made it a very interesting, uh, show to where you never really knew which, which one was going to show up. You know, whether it was going to, where they're going to be real close or whether they're just going to be partners, you know Uh-huh. And, that, that I kind of thought was good, but, um, you know, it's, I guess, you know, you always kind of sit there
and you see these two people together, and you always wonder, why they don't, you know, get together or whatever. Yeah. And so I guess that's what they decide to do Just go ahead and quit the wondering Yeah. and, and, But it's, it's always been a formula, uh, for T V that the minute that two people, that the two main stars get married, that the show ends up, you know, dying. Yeah. A, a, good example of this, and, you know, this is maybe it's not a good example. I've been watching Nickelodeon all last week, because they had what they called MAXIMUM SMART. They had GET SMART for, uh, ten hours a day, from seven o'clock at night, until six or until five o'clock the next morning. All the GET SMART episodes you could ever see. Oh. Well, the, the last day, all they did was the last season, to where the two of them got married Uh-huh. and that was, I mean, that was the killer, the series died right after that, because, I didn't, I was going to say, I didn't ever watch MOONLIGHTING, well go ahead.
but I heard that's what killed it Uh-huh, same thing. that, uh, interplay died when they got married, and so the show died. Yeah, the, it seems like you can do so much more of the subtle hints and the subtle little plays on things before they, they, before they get married you know, Uh-huh. the minute they get married, everything's supposed to be cut and dried and and, well, of course, another one of their mistakes, I think, is they have a tendency to change characters, or to change the characters', uh, uh, personalities well, especially after they get married. Right. Halfway through, Yeah. Um, couple of examples would be, um, well, like I said, this one about Max or Get Well Smart, the female character, Barbara Feldon Uh-huh. she had been at the beginning the, the intelligent one, the, the one who always solved the things and, and figured out and kept Max from getting real messed up. Well, in short, whenever they got married, she got dingy. Oh. You know, why would they do that?
Yeah. It made no sense. I, I'm guess it's falling back into our traditional stereotype which a lot of shows Unfortunately, that's probably true. yeah, which kind of, like in the big soap opera shows, which I don't enjoy because of that, but, Well, do you you watch, um, what is that show, WHO'S THE BOSS? That's, uh, that's on Tuesday nights I think. I've seen it before, but I don't watch it regularly. Yeah, well, I I hardly ever watch it, Usually Tuesday nights I'm out, so. but, as, as I've seen it, they've, they've done sort of the same thing to where they've, they started to let them get together, and then they pulled them apart Uh-huh. and I think they're thinking about that exact thing, about the idea that if the show lets them, uh, get together, then you lose part of what the show's all about.

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