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So maybe that's. Schedule A or,
It's on schedule, um, Schedule A under, uh,
well, it's the same place, it's the same place you put, uh, interest.
But, but see that's what, that's what makes Texas squirrelly laws that you can't, you can't take out a, a second mortgage, like some states where you can take out the mortgage and declare that,
and so, uh, it's fully deductible.
The laws are a little squirrelly,
but it basically comes down to
it's not in your best interest to borrow money from a tax standpoint.
Yeah.
But, uh, anyway,
Yeah,
I try, I, I really do, I just try to stay out of debt,
and I, and I use my Visa for, for as much as I can,
and I pay it all off,
and,
Sounds like you're, you're very very financially responsible.
It's, uh, That's, uh,
Uh-huh.
there're a lot of people who really run,
my boss drives quite a ways to work,
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and he's got just enormous debts,
and he's,
but, I mean, what do you say, it's like, Shucks, Boss, I'm sure sorry you've got all that debt.
Well, he's had, had two kids in college and, and this kind of thing,
and that
Uh-huh.
I think that the whole credit card issue, I think they certainly encourage people to run up the debts
and, but I agree with you
Yeah.
I don't, I my debts.
Well, I did buy a new house last summer.
Hell, I took a five year note out on my car when I, right when I got out of college,
and, uh, I'll never do that again.
I still got a couple of years on it to go,
and I'm,
It's, it's remarkable how many people as soon as they get out of college buy a new car,
and that, uh, apparently that's been going on for a really long time.
I didn't do it.
I, I bought a second hand car when I was, the middle of my senior year.
Well, you, you think you're starting out well, until you start paying all those bills. Uh, apartment rent,
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Yep.
and,
Miscellaneous things like food and other things,
Yeah.
these habits you get into, eating
and, and, uh, it's, it's, it's amazing how it, what you learn.
Yeah,
so.
Well, anything else good to say about credit cards?
Um
I might just,
you know, they're convenient, you know,
that's probably one big thing about them,
and, uh,
You don't have to carry the cash,
and, and, uh, and it's, it's, it's certainly accepted more places than, the places, you know,
it's hard to cash a check if you're out of state,
and,
Yeah,
well, I was used to using my credit card, like at Skaggs Alpha Beta in Dallas, and stuff
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Yeah.
and now I'm out here in Phoenix.
They don't allow, they don't do
They, they,
none of these grocery stores take any credit cards,
so now I have to carry cash when I go to the grocery store, which is new to me, you know,
I got to have sixty bucks on me or something.
Yeah.
So, uh that was interesting, cause I always, you know,
Carry all that cash with you.
you didn't have to worry about carrying that much unless I knew I,
Well, you know they, they they've started towards a little bit of the debit card,
have you seen the debit cards where they actually debit your account when you,
Yeah,
I've heard about them.
Yeah,
and I think that's where,
That's mostly locally,
the banks will line up with, uh.
Yeah,
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I've seen a couple,
although the,
so many of the grocery stores don't do that because of the, the time frame which they get paid, in general,
that, uh,
they,
I've seen checks deposited the very next day, I mean, cleared my account the next day.
My wife will write a check for groceries
and, you know, almost,
well I guess it's the day after, uh,
technically it's two days,
but they took that check and scurried it to the bank
and the bank scurried it back to my account,
and you thought there'd be just a little bit of float,
but apparently that's why the, uh, the, uh, the, uh, grocery stores are reluctant to do that, because their volume, that is quite high,
and they have, uh,
the costability of the cash flow is a big issue for them.
Yeah.
Anyway.
Well, it's good talking to you.
All righty.
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Maybe we'll get across, we'll cross paths again.
Good night.
All righty.
Take it easy.
So what kind of weather have you had in Dallas?
Well, it's been very windy,
Really?
Yeah
see, I didn't, I don't,
I thought, uh, I thought,
I lived in Euless
and I thought it was pretty normal,
but anyway, but I guess you're right though it has been real hot,
because it, um,
I've had to use the air conditioner in March,
we've already had to use that,
my husband usually,
and we've had like,
I mean, this is probably typical though, uh, we,
like tornado weather and tornado warnings,
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and, uh,
Uh-huh.
so, uh, you know, I, I forget from year to year.
I'm getting too old.
But, the, uh, it, the wind's blowing very hard,
Yeah.
but I guess, you know, we're just out of March, and, uh will bring the rain in, uh, April.
Yeah,
I know,
The trees are real pretty right now and everything.
And, uh, I don't know.
I know the pollen is real high,
Yes,
it is.
Seems very high.
It hasn't bothered me,
but I know that people that have allergies it seems to be pretty high.
I know.
It's been bothering me a lot,
but
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yeah,
I think, I think the weather overall has been, um, probably like you said, probably a little bit warm
and, Uh,
A little bit warm and a little bit blowy, I think.
Anyway,
so we basically live in the same area
so it's real hard to,
Really hard to make too big of different comparisons, right?
I know.
Yeah.
I just think it's been warm,
and it's been hot,
and I liked it,
and it's beautiful,
and all the trees are pretty,
and I wish it would stay like this all the time
Yes,
I could stand this all summer.
So yeah,
I could too.
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And, uh, gah, I don't think we can say anything else really.
I don't think we can either,
let's cut off.
Yeah,
that sounds like a good deal.
Well, you have a nice day.
You too.
And we'll talk to you later.
Bye-bye.
Bye.
Okay, um.
Let's talk about the Middle East situation.
The U S involvement in there, then I guess even though.
Now that's it's all over with, you know.
Well, it is over
but I don't think we're out of there by any means,
and uh, I wonder are we going to set up you know peace keeping type forces for long term.
You know, is that something we should do or shouldn't do?
I don't know.
I don't know
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I understand that the U S is talking about leaving more of its planes and things over there.
Uh, I guess, they, uh, they're anti U S in that region
and now they're, you know,
like Syria and Egypt, you know had some pressure against the U S,
but now they, now they wouldn't allow us to have a base in that region
but now I think they are rethinking that.
I think that's true because of all the support that came through.
That's right.
The other thing that I think is good for like American businesses are to be involved is the, the reports that I hear back
and of course on the news I try to listen and also read between the lines you know
Uh-huh.
But, they said that because the Americans you know took such a proactive stance involvement in the war that
like so much of the business and the rebuilding in Kuwait and things like that will go to American businesses where as before they may be dealt with Japanese firms or other people.
Uh-huh.
They said even though the Japanese were involved monetarily, uh, they still
like the first, first priority ought to go to American businesses, which I guess will be good you know which will be good for our economy.
Right,
right.
But, I, you know.
They get so much of our money from oil anyway
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Boy,
don't you know,
I mean we don't seem to slow down even when there is a crisis
No,
no.
But.
Yeah,
I think that's a nice gesture, on the Kuwaiti government part to do that,
and a few people I guess will make a few people pretty wealthy in construction and so forth.
I imagine.
Your oil companies, they may see, probably the first big rise in business they have seen in years.
Right.
Go over there and rebuild all those.
Uh-huh.
I think it's such a shame that the Iraqis had to just go destroy everything.
I just.
I do too.
I mean, what's, what good is that?
If I can't have it, you can't have it, you know
that sounds like something a little kid would do. You know.
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Yeah,
but look at their war,
that was his whole war
is, is
I'm not satisfied with what Iraq has,
I want what everybody has.
That's right.
And, and you're right,
it's like you see two little pre-school kids fighting over a toy, you know.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
I, I am a little concerned about you know,
I know they are putting President Bush right now in an awkward position concerning the, The treaty over there right now.
The, The deal with the uh, supporting the Kurds.
You know what am I trying to say?
Well supporting the Kurds
but, uh, you know the cease-fire,
Right,
right,
the cease-fire.
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I'm trying to say another, because he yeah. You know because he, he wants them to uphold their end of the deal as far as the cease-fire
Right.
Right.
You know if it's an internal thing, I don't think we can walk in and say, Gee, I think you're right, and you're wrong, you know
we're not the judge and jury.
Uh-huh.
Uh, but I know that that's causing him a little bit of unpopularity with the people over there because they feel like, Gee, you told us, to stand up against him, but you're not helping.
Yeah,
to help out.
Yeah.
So I think he's in a pretty awkward position now
and I, I think we ought to help, you know.
Maybe supply some arms or something.
Yeah,
supply arms and support them if they need help
but I don't think we ought to be over there fighting it for them,
and and, so I think he's done good on that stance.
Yeah,
I think Bush handled, has handled this whole situation quite well.
He stood up to, to the bully and, didn't back down
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Yeah.
and uh, and uh, Saddam Hussein miscalculated all along, thinking that he wouldn't commit U S lives and, and forces and, and monies to, just to liberate a little country.
Boy,
I would say.
That's right.
And, uh, then he underestimated his ability to, to wage a war with us.
I mean, one thing when we all came over there and said, Okay, here we are, get out, and he said, No, I can, I can win a war with you guys.
Yeah,
yeah.
And that was a horrible miscalculation.
I agree,
you know they'd advertised and said in the news and said he had the fifth largest army.
Well, he may have
but you,
Not any more
Well not any more
but, you have to have loyalty,
you have to have people who believe in your cause.
Right.
You know, I know they tried to turn it into a holy war, because to them that is what's honorable. You know, if you die in a holy cause,
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Right.
but I think they are smart enough, to see there's nothing holy about it.
Yeah.
We just want to go in and took it.
Right.
You know.
Saddam Hussein is not a religious person,
but he uses it. When he sees it to his advantage.
Sure.
Sure.
And, uh, and I think the people were smart enough to realize that,
and I think they're afraid of him. Is what they are.
Uh.
The population is afraid to speak out against him
and I don't think he's going to be there too much longer.
Well, I hope that's true.
Someone is going to assassinate him, you know.
I would think so,
I would think that , you know,
I guess in the back of my mind I think like maybe the Israeli Massad probably has ideas of going in and, huh.
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Yeah,
yeah.
You know, I thought they, uh, showed a tremendous restraint in their reactions towards everything,
Uh-huh.
but I don't believe for a minute that that means that they don't have ideas and plans of their own
That's right.
But I do agree with you,
Yeah.
I think President Bush handled it all politically very smart, you know, giving the support of, of the other Arabs and other nations in the world
and I think, that's how you have to go into something like that.
Right,
right.
I've heard reports that President Bush was staking his future on this, uh, this war and that setting a precedent saying that this League of Nations will always combine against bullies and to stop this kind of stuff in the world.
Any would be bully would think twice if he knew that, you know,
there's this United Nations or world government or whatever they keep talking about that the whole world will deal with you.
And don't you feel? *listen
And you can't, you just can't do it and get away with it, you know, hoping that you know,
That's right.
because it's a world thing
and the nations will combine against you
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and you can't, you know, you can't just do this.
And don't you think that long term that's been a big boost for the United Nations.
Oh, yeah.
I mean the United Nations been there for years, but all of a sudden.
Had no, had no teeth.
Yeah
there are some teeth behind it
and the fact that when they have sanctions and we support things like this, it means something.
Right.
And I think that's good for the strength of the United Nations.
People,
I guess, I feel sorry for just the average, you know, Iraqi, who has had to go through all of this and the suffering. I'm sure with no water, No electricity, no sanitation,
Yeah.
And rebuild from nothing.
Yes.
must be terrible, living conditions must be terrible.
Yeah.
and it's not getting any better,
the sanctions are still on.
That's true.
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You know, except for a few medical supplies they are allowing through now and then powdered milk, I guess, for babies and things
and until they,
I guess, yesterday they came out with this, these rules I guess or whatever. For a permanent, permanent cease-fire
Right.
They supported it.
and the Kuwaitis said, We don't want to have to repay Israel for all the bombing that we did that was in there, you know.
That is right,
But that's only fair.
Yeah,
they did ask that they build up Israel and Kuwait.
Yeah.
And I think they should have to.
Yeah.
They lost
It's going to be really tough for them to swallow,
but we don't want a Kuwait there that's also, you know, just has no power at all,
and that, that you know,
because Iran still isn't too friendly with them.
Well, that's true.
And we don't want, you know, to be stabilized to the point where Iran will say, Now is our chance, you know, to go in and wipe them out
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and,
Well I don't think Iran is under the same type of madman type leadership,
Yeah,
yeah.
but there's always the possibility, I guess.
Yeah,
yeah
since Khomeini died over there, things have gotten a little more normalized.
I think so.
Not quite as radical a stance, more moderates are in power now.
I think the person who really may be at this time has a hard road to tow is Jordan's King Hussein because he really kind of, really tried to kind of straddle the fence.
Yeah.
Put in the middle.
You know, he wasn't necessarily for Iraq
but at the same time, he didn't feel like everybody ought to be going against Iraq.
And yet so many of the citizens are the uh, the Lebanese. Who were hoping this would evolve into a war against Israel. And uh, trying to connect with Israel all that time
Yeah.
Right.
and there really was no connection at all.
No.
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And, uh, but boy those Lebanese in Jordan, they were saying you know, this whole war is Israel's fault because Israel told the United States to attack Iran
it was like, it was like you know Israel controls our government.
I know,
isn't that amazing the way that they will find their cause
no matter what situation they see they're going to find their cause whether it truly exists or not.
Right,
but one thing I did learn was how deep the the hatred runs toward Israel by a lot of countries.
I know.
They just hate,
I mean, anyway they can, you know, they can see to connect into something and hate it more,
I mean, they just,
I understand most of the land is now Israelis,
they bought, and actually purchased it and then, and then moved in and started a country.
That's true.
But, see you are also getting back to the ages old problem of Arab-Israeli conflict, as far as personalties and who is the selected one of God
Right.
and theirs tie so much to their religion.
Yeah,
right,
right
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and they both have holy sanctions.
So, very different things than what we face.
Okay
Well, what, what do you is think is the, uh, the main change in?
What generation are you,
I'm, I'm thirty years old?
I'm twenty-nine.
You're twenty-nine,
okay,
so we're, we're both children of the very early sixties.
Right.
And, I have, I mean I've seen some change,
like I know, um, when I was young most mothers pretty much were housewives, and stayed at home with the kids,
Um, um.
Uh-huh.
and to, to me it seems like its almost the opposite now where the, the woman is working and, and they, you know, take the children to child care,
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
or maybe they work part-time or something.
Uh-huh,
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uh-huh.
So, that seems to be a pretty big change.
Yeah,
the family structure in general is being really restructured from one income to two incomes which means from one parent to two part-time parents, if you're lucky
Uh-huh.
Yeah,
right.
Um, I, uh,
it, it's funny,
it's both of us then were really just adolescents when, when,
I think, most of the major changes for adult women were going on, in America.
Uh-huh.
I don't think, changes are still progressing,
but it seems to me that the, uh, really the seventies, the early seventies was a period of the most change,
Uh-huh.
and, if I had to somewhat abstract about it, it seems to be the major change has been that woman have acquired more choice.
Uh-huh.
Oh, that's true.
That's true.
Uh, I mean, that's sort of the overall, the meta, the meta change as it were. Uh, where that woman really have more of a choice now about what they do.
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Uh-huh.
Uh, course, they find that the choice creates its own hardships in a way because life is not quite as simple even if it is for your, you know,
you can share something you really want, which is a wonderful thing,
Uh-huh.
but, it does seem
like an awful lot of my, uh, my adult women friends are anguishing over, over some of, some of these choices.
Um,
Right.
Well, I know, the choice to either work or to be a mother is probably pretty difficult because I think women just naturally tend to have those instincts that you, you know, you protected the children, and you want to be with the children,
Uh-huh.
yet there's so many material things to be had out there that a lot of people think, oh, but, if we both work, we can get a really big house, and we can have two really nice cars, we can take a vacation, we can do this,
Yes.
Yes,
yes.
and it's kind of almost expected of you anyway.
People kind of look down on a, on a, you know, the role of a woman as a housewife,
it's kind of like, oh, well, you know, she didn't go to college, and she's just a housewife.
Right.
She just settled for that.
Yeah.
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Right.
Right.
Even though there's probably women with M B A's, maybe even Ph D's, that are staying at home with the children.
Um,
Well, I only know,
I have,
of my friends who have, have children, uh,
I only know of one woman who's decided to go that quote, unquote, traditional route.
Uh-huh.
And, I have a lot of respect for her, because she made it as a real choice.
Uh-huh.
She really knew that she didn't have to do that,
but she decided that was what she wanted to do in her life.
Uh-huh.
and, she wanted that role.
She's a marvelous parent
and I, you know, I say all power to her because she's an example to me of someone who really does have the choice.
Uh-huh.
I feel that a lot of, uh, women don't,
all right I said they have the choice
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but they don't necessarily feel that they do because they no longer feel like if they were just to be a parent rather than, uh, you know, a sort of super woman success in the business world as well, they would somehow be perceived as a failure, in their own eyes or in others,
Uh-huh.
Right.
and, and then you, and then it's not a choice anymore.
Uh-huh.
Uh, and frankly, it's the way that men are.
Uh, men don't have this choice,
Uh-huh.
they don't feel this choice. Maybe sort of feel like he isn't that success that he could have been.
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
Right.
So, it's, um,
There's some T V show on now
and I, I think I've seen it once.
I don't get to watch much T V,
but, uh, there's a T V show where the man is the one raising the kids, and the wife is,
Uh-huh.
and I,
maybe they based it on that MISTER MOM movie,
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but, uh, but, uh, there is a T V show out there.
I didn't happen to see that.
I guess they're trying to gain more public acceptance of things like that.
Because I know there are cases of where that happens
and,
Oh, yeah.
I knew, I knew people who did that years ago,
Uh-huh.
but they were very apologetic about it
because you could tell they were used to people saying, What are you doing that for, you know.
Right.
It's probably getting more and more accepted today,
in fact it seems like it's kind of like anything goes now,
you're not too surprised on much of anything.
When, you know, the husband's the one at home raising the children, the mother works,
Yeah.
that's not real surprising.
And,
Yeah.
I've seen more and more companies that have, uh, parental leave, not just maternity leave.
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Right.
They can have paternity leave, as well as maternity leave.
Yeah.
In fact I'm pretty sure TI has something like that
because, uh, one of the area supervisors, uh, in my area, as a matter of fact, took off, um, for a couple of weeks, when his wife had their baby.
Uh-huh.
Now it might have been just to take care of her and the baby, instead of having a, you know, a, a nurse, or someone come in, or, or something like that, or whatever, mid-wife or whatever they call it that they have for the first couple of weeks.
Yeah.
Uh-huh,
uh-huh.
Yeah.
But, I don't know if he took that out of his vacation or if they really do have a paternity,
he put paternity leave up there,
but it might have just been him describing the fact that he was taking vacation days to go be a father for a little while,
Uh-huh,
uh-huh,
uh-huh.
I don't know.
But, I'm not real sure how that goes.
Yeah,
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the other big change I see in, in woman's lives is, um, to remain biological
they, uh, women because they have choice are having children much later in life.
Right.
Uh, I mean, my friends who are having children are having them at age thirty.
Uh-huh.
And, uh, if I'd been a couple of generations ago, they would have had kids running around by then.
Right.
Well, people they, in general, are just getting married a lot later.
I'm still single
so I'm sure I'll be one of those parents that's, you know, one of those women in her thirties when, when I get around to, to ever getting married and having kids.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's, uh, I think, I think that's getting a little more common too.
Yeah.
I actually think that I'm, I'm somewhat encouraged by that trend, because after all people live longer lives now, so, it's not like, you know, it's not like you're going to, uh, you know, pass away before your child is an adult, I mean, barring, you know, unforeseen circumstances.
Uh-huh.
Right.
And, I think, most people make better parents when they are a little bit more mature.
Yeah.
I really do.
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I think it also gives a woman a chance, if she does have a job and a career,
it gives the man and the wife both the chance to both be working and maybe save up some money
and then it gives her a little more option if she wants to stay home with the children while they're young, and, be a mother for awhile,
Uh-huh.
and then once they've gotten to school age maybe she could go back to work.
So, she's kind of got that option, if, if they wait till later, they've saved up some money,
Yeah.
that it's not as difficult for her to stay at home with the kids and live off one income, or something.
Yeah,
yeah.
That's true.
So, I guess, I, I'm pretty encouraged
Yeah.
I really am.
But, then I'm a product of my generation,
I don't know, if I had been born a hundred years ago and were looking at this time, I might not like it,
but it sure seems nice to me.
Uh-huh.
Uh, I mean, I have other things to complain about,
but in terms of, uh, woman's roles, um, things really seem a lot more flexible.
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Uh-huh.
I seem to see more women in, uh, in leadership type roles and management positions, in politics,
Yeah.
I mean, it's still, it's still a small minority,
but it's, but it's an improvement.
Yeah.
It really is.
Like the Mayor of Dallas is a woman.
Oh, really!
And, I'm sure that twenty years ago that never would have happened,
but,
Uh-huh.
yeah,
she's, I think, she's in her second term now.
So, she's, she's,
yeah,
this is her second term,
I think, she's going to, going to, uh, not going to run again after this.
Uh-huh.
But, but, uh, we do, and we have several council women that are women,
|
but, you just start hearing more and more.
Yeah.
In fact, oh, the, the Governor of Texas is a woman, too
Oh
We can't forget that one.
So,
What's, what's her name?
Ann Richards.
No,
it,
we don't get much Texas politics out in California, to be honest.
Yeah.
She was inaugurated in January,
so, so, you're starting to see more of that
Uh-huh.
and I know when I was younger it was all the Presidents, and still all the Presidents are men,
but I'm sure that one of these days, well look at Ferraro ran for Vice-President, and I guess one of these days, we'll, we'll eventually have,
That's right
although during, during the Presidential debates, there was some really nasty patronizing, stuff toward,
Uh-huh.
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I don't know if you saw those,
but, I thought she was treated badly for being a woman, frankly, I really did by, by, uh, the the then vice-presidential candidates, uh, who really, I thought, had a demeaning attitude towards her.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
And, uh, it was sort of, it was acceptable to say certain types of things to her that she couldn't say back, that kind of thing, which, I, I, I found myself getting quite enraged about.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
But, really, that's a previous generation.
Uh-huh.
I don't,
it's harder to imagine people of our age doing that, and not feeling really stupid.
Right.
Right.
Right
I agree.
Well, I think we've, we've gotten our five minutes
or,
Well, they've gotten their five minutes worth of us.
I've enjoyed talking with you.
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It was nice talking to you, too.
Okay,
take care.
You, too.
Bye, bye.
Bye, bye.
Okay.
Well, how do you feel about, uh, drug testing?
Um, personally, I don't have a problem with it, uh,
I think, uh, as far as, uh, protecting fellow employees, protecting their reputation of the company and the quality of work that the people do, um, it's justified.
On the other hand, um, I do agree that it's, it's a, it's an invasion of privacy as far as a person's involvement outside of work.
Yeah.
Um, I would never, I would never have a problem with anyone testing me,
but I can understand why people would object.
So, I guess, uh, I guess, uh, I'm kind of mixed on it, still at this point.
Yeah.
I am too a little bit,
I mean, I, I don't want to be around people who are really on drugs and that sort of thing,
Uh-huh.
and, and, you know, obviously they're probably not going to be doing a good job and so forth,
|
but I don't really like having to do it.
It,
That's right.
And I don't like the idea of it, it's, it's, makes too much of a big brother type of thing.
That's absolutely right.
It, it, uh, I guess it all comes down to, uh, you know, a, a definition of, uh, how much out, outside activities affect your work
and, uh, uh, granted, you know, that,
any, any kind of drug use on, on company property and whatnot, is, is definitely not acceptable.
Yeah.
Uh, uh, I don't think anybody would ever argue that. Or, uh, any, any after affects carrying over into the workday
Huh-uh.
but, um, you know, I don't, I'm not particularly concerned with what people do, um, after they leave for the day especially if I don't, if I don't, uh, see any results of it the next day.
Yeah,
yeah,
I think so too.
But, you know, it's one of those things.
Well, it, it is, it, you know,
on the other hand you, you've got, uh, you've got the, uh, the possibility of people, oh,
you've got some people could be arrested for, uh, drug use, drug dealings and things like that,
and, uh, if their, if their employers name hits the papers and that it's, it's, it's a mark against them,
|
Yeah.
the company and, uh, you know, what kind of people work there, what, uh,
Plus, I guess, if they are in problem enough to be jailed or something of that nature for any length of time, then the company has lost what they've put into that employee, and their expertise or whatever.
That's right.
That's right.
Right.
even if it is, you know, a company policy of, uh, immediate termination or whatever, they still have to replace them.
Yeah.
And, uh, there's, there's a lot involved there.
Well, do you think that, um, it should be like we have this sort of random spot testing type of thing
or do you think it would be more palatable if we had some sort of regular schedule
or would that just allow everybody a chance to get out of it?
I think, I think the regular schedule stuff, um, that when you say everybody get out of it, that's a good point,
I never really thought of it that way.
Well, you know, if, if they have time enough they can, stay off of it.
Yeah,
if they really can,
um, I think the the biggest problem I've got is, is forcing it on someone after they've already agreed to the terms of employment.
Yeah.
Um, as far as the new hires, I, I hired on just early enough that I, I missed it. Um, where the new hires were concerned
|
but, uh, not, nobody, no,
I don't think anybody questions that, um, testing someone as a, as a precondition to being hired
but, um, for the conditions that, for our employment to change while you're on the job that's, I, I don't know, that, that's where I think that most people get upset.
It's, uh, you know, it, it's changing the rules in the middle of the game basically
and, uh, It's just, it, it's a really tough question
Yeah.
and it, you know, it,
people have, have really quieted down after everything started
but I still think there's a lot of, there's a lot of resentment.
I think so too, uh,
I know the, the group I was in at the time this all came up they, uh, were quite vocal about it, through electronic mail,
boy, they just really, you know let them have it from one end to the other, vehemently
Uh-huh.
You bet.
but, uh, it has quieted down,
but I don't think they probably feel any differently,
No,
that's right.
and some, some of them did quit the company.
Yeah,
|
I, I know of some people who did, uh,
it was, it was indirectly related, you know,
they could always come up with other reasons
but it, it had a lot to do with it. Just the, the whole attitude,
because it's really, uh, it's just really,
it, it seems so
T I, you know, with the, the whole relaxed atmosphere that we have, um, to all of a sudden, uh, search for attitudes and whatnot.
True.
You know, there's not a lot of pressure to, to vote the right way or anything else around T I.
Like there, like there is in some companies or at least, you know,
from what I've heard,
Uh-huh.
but, uh,
yeah
Yeah,
I wouldn't like anything of that nature, you know,
Uh-huh.
No,
I,
don't tell me what to do, you know.
|
Absolutely not, you know,
it's, it's, it's, you know,
if you hired me I'll be, you know,
supposedly your grade was a little majority of my views and my qualifications to begin with
so, uh, you know, let's, let's stick with that original trust, I guess.
Yeah.
But, uh, it's, it's still, it, it still remains a tough question
and, it's, there's a lot of, you know, the whole, the whole department of defense, uh, reasoning behind the original plan and whatnot.
There's a lot of different things that, uh, come into play
but that was,
I think everybody, everybody pretty much knows that that was kind of a smoke screen to implement it throughout the whole company.
Yeah.
Well, I guess too if I thought that this would help really and truly do away with the drug problem, then that would be one thing. But I think it's too minor and too, you know,
Uh-huh.
in, in the whole scope of things this isn't going to, to have any real affect on, what's going on in the street.
I really don't think so.
Yeah.
I really don't because, some people are going to, are, are going to risk it, um,
it may prevent,
I, I guess, I guess what I'm trying to get at is, if it, if it, if it does help a few individuals maybe, maybe it's worth it.
|
Yeah.
Um, you know, it may prevent somebody who was, was teetering on the edge of experimenting or whatnot
but, uh, I don't know if, you know, the,
it's, it's a needs of the few and the needs of the many type situation
I don't know if everybody should have to sacrifice quite as much.
There, there's still a big question in my mind
that, the, the absolute refusal to accept the possibility of, of mistakes on the testing, is something that still bothers me.
Well, yes.
It, it's,
That,
yes.
I, I think that could be a big problem, you know,
I would just be irate if they said it was positive and I knew it wasn't,
Uh-huh.
you know, that just really rubbed me the wrong way.
Uh-huh.
Absolutely.
And that,
I, I don't know if, uh, I don't know if everybody understands all the implications on that too. even if you, you know, if you take, uh, a, a drug that was prescribed for you
but the, the prescription has run out you still had some left
|
and you happen to take an extra penicillin,
well, penicillin's not on the list
but, you know,
Yeah.
yeah,
I, I think you understand what I'm getting at,
Yeah.
it, it can still show up
and it can still flag as a positive
and, and those kinds of things obviously that's not the intent,
Right.
No.
and, uh, those are the kinds of things that still can show up.
I guess the one that really got me too was that, uh,
let's say your spouse is on a particular drug
and you know what that is,
Uh-huh.
and then you end up with the same problem
and you take their leftover medicine,
that's not allowed.
|
That's right.
You know, that's, that's totally out.
That's right.
I even had friends when I was going to college who were in, uh, pharmacy school
and they could legally, um, provide medicine to their family family members and friends
certain medicines were, were legal now
I, I, I believe, you know, any of the, any of the ones we would, we would be tested for wouldn't be on those lists,
Uh-huh.
but, uh, um, there were certain things that they could provide without a doctors prescription based on their qualifications
and, that can happen.
Oh, that's interesting.
But, uh,
Well, I guess we've exhausted that one.
Yeah,
yeah,
I think so
enjoyed talking to you.
You too.
Good-bye.
Good-bye.
|
Well, what's your views on it?
I think it's, uh, a good idea.
Um, I grew up, uh,
my teenage years were spent during the sixties,
graduating, uh, high school in sixty-eight. Um, I remember when the Peace Corps movement first came about,
and I thought it was a very good idea at the time.
I was one of those, uh, Kennedy children, if you know what I mean.
Uh-huh.
And, uh, right now I see a lot of kids who get out of school, have no idea what they want to do.
Yeah.
And there's a lot of things out there that we could do, uh, for our own country,
Sure.
let alone other countries,
Sure.
and I think that we've got the, the people power to do it,
it's just, uh,
we need to channel it and focus it on some things that, that need some fixing up.
Um, some examples are this, uh, some of the things, like Jimmy Carter's been involved in, uh, a little program to, you know, fix up housing for people.
Yeah.
Uh-huh.
|
And there's a lot of housing,
Yeah.
I know in the area that I live in, that's run down and beat up,
but it could be fixed up and used,
Uh-huh.
and it's just, you know, sitting there wasting away.
Yeah,
we're not too far behind
I graduated in seventy-one,
so I'm, I'm same generation.
I, I'm,
it's going to be a short conversation because I agree with you.
I, I think, uh, I don't, I don't even think it ought to be, uh, voluntary,
I think it ought to be mandatory. Uh, for kids to either, either do military service, or public service, one of the two.
Uh, a lot of reasons for that, not, not just because I'm a, I'm a hard ass or anything.
Uh-huh.
It's just that, like you say, kids are getting out of high school not knowing what in the heck they're going to do,
and either the military or public service organization can give them a lot of focus.
And, I think that it might stop us some problems later on.
I mean, you know these kids will get their, their heads on straight, and, and figure out what they want to do, instead of hanging around street corners selling drugs or something.
|
Uh, it's, I think it would be good for them, uh,
it helps mature them a little bit, and helps them understand the world, the way it really is.
Yeah,
I think a lot of people grow up with, uh, with, uh, preconceived notions what the world's about.
Oh, yeah.
A lot of it has to do from too much T V,
Oh, yeah,
yeah.
and, uh, you know, it's, there's, there's a heck of a lot of difference between, you know, the intake that you get from T V and, and movies, and what you hear in school, and then what reality is.
Uh-huh.
Uh, I remember, uh, I've, I've worked since I was,
well, I started delivering papers when I was ten,
and I had a real job when I was thirteen,
so I've, you know, worked most of my life.
But I remember when I got out of high school, all through high school was,
boy, I can't wait to get out of high school,
I can't wait to get out of high school.
And I wanted to go to college,
and I had the grades to go to college,
and I got accepted to college,
|
but when I got out of high school, I kind of said, you know, what am I going to do now?
Uh-huh.
You know, it's
like, you know, when I actually started working full time, and I, I got married shortly after getting out of high school.
I, uh, thought I was smart, ran away and got married,
and, uh, I remember there was a time, and within the first year of marriage, I said, boy wouldn't I give to get, be back in school, and just have to do homework, and, and go work my part time job.
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
Because, life, and the reality of working for a living, and trying to make ends meet, is just so overwhelming to someone, if they aren't prepared for it.
Yeah.
And, and most of them aren't.
That's true.
I mean, you look, you look at the number of marriages that are occurring right I mean, even in high school,
and, you know, you wonder, where are the parents in all of this.
You know, why isn't somebody stepping in and, and putting a stop to this.
Kids in high school are just too young to be married.
Yeah.
They they have no idea what the world is like.
They don't how tough it is out there to make a living.
Yeah,
|
a,
Uh, I mean, I was in the same boat when I left high school.
I, my parents wanted me to go straight to college
and I didn't.
You know, I was ready,
I was ready,
I had wanderlust,
I wanted to get out and see some things.
So, I joined the Air Force and ended up staying there for thirteen years.
Um.
Um, but, I had lived in my own little bubble up until that time,
and, and after traveling around the world a few times, I realized that, things ain't the way they seem.
Yeah.
And I, I did a lot of growing up there, uh,
Yeah,
I think once, once kids get out and see how other people really live, and know how bad off some people really are, and how good they've got it, and what it takes to have that good life, if you're willing to work for it, then they're probably be more inclined to work for it.
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
That's right
That's right.
|
Uh-huh.
Well, you know, it's just like you say, there's so much stuff that needs to be done here in this country,
and, uh, you know, if, if you could have a thought of something like, uh, like a, uh, uh, a Peace Corps sort of organization. I mean, this would be so useful, just in, uh, for instance, just helping old folks.
Uh-huh,
exactly.
You know, they, you know they need help,
they don't have anybody to depend on,
and it would be nice to have somebody come over and cut their yard or paint their house, or do minor repairs, or something like that.
You know, I've, I've I,
my, my parents are in their late sixties now,
and, um, so many of the people that live around them are unable to do those things for themselves anymore.
Yeah.
And, it's, it's really hard on them,
and the, you know, the thought that I, I see the, uh, the mall rats, you know, walking around the mall, nothing better to do than just walk around the mall all day long, when they could be doing something to help someone.
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
And, uh, you know, there's a, uh, a nice warm feeling,
I remember getting out of doing things like that when I was younger,
Yeah.
I mean, I was a Boy Scout
|
and the whole bit and,
Yeah,
my mom's in the same position, late sixties,
and, and it got to the, got to the point where, I mean, me and my brother both were, were gone, and she couldn't maintain the house, without large expenditures of money.
Yeah.
You know, it finally got to a point where she just had to sell it and move into an apartment.
And, uh, I, I'm not, I'm not saying that that wouldn't have happened anyway,
but it would have been nice if there had been somebody to come around and take care of the little things. You know, like the, like the yard work and little repairs, and painting and stuff like that.
Yeah.
I think there'd, there'd be a, you know, a, uh, economic benefit for, you know, everyone concerned, those doing the work, and those receiving the, the, uh, the services.
Oh yeah,
sure.
Sure,
I mean, I mean, the kids who would be giving the service are going to get a lot more out of it than just money.
Yeah.
You know, that,
I, I remember when I was a kid, I used to do little, little things for the old folks around the neighborhood,
and, uh, I know how it made me feel.
You know, you uh,
people just don't help people anymore.
|
They're, they're out for themselves
and,
Yeah.
I think, uh, President Bush covered that in his, uh, State of the Union Address this year when he said that, you know, it's time for, you know, the individuals to start thinking about what they can do to help each other out instead of counting on government to do everything.
Yeah,
well that's, that's the, that's the point we've gotten to, you know.
Every time somebody wants something they always turn to the government.
And, the government's going to be limited.
I, where are they going to get the money?
They're going to get it from us.
And we can do it a lot more efficiently than the government.
Yeah.
We don't need to add fourteen layers of bureaucracy to a program.
Exactly.
Um, the thing that Carter works on, uh, Habitats For Humanity, I was involved in that uh, in Montgomery, before I came up to North Carolina,
Uh-huh
and, uh, it was, it was a pretty neat little program.
We'd just go out,
and they would buy a plot of land, and contractors and builders,
and everybody else would donate their, their time,
|
and, uh, the materials were at cost.
And we'd put up houses.
And, that was kind, that was kind of neat.
I, uh, in a way, I think it's a little bit inefficient,
but, but it's better than nothing.
Yeah.
And, and at least I had the opportunity of seeing two families move into decent housing.
Um, course, on the other hand, I can start complaining very loudly about people on public assistance who are quite capable of doing something for themselves, but just won't. Because it's far more advantageous for them to sit there and just draw, uh, welfare money than it is to work.
Yes.
Uh, we did a, uh, a cost comparison in one of my courses,
and we took all the benefits that a family, that a, a married couple with two kids would get under welfare, and what they would be making at minimum wage.
And they came out four thousand dollars better a year, by taking welfare.
Yes.
So there's no incentive for them to do anything.
Far better for them to sit on their butts and draw the money.
Yeah.
One of the things they tried to push through in Maryland, and, uh, weren't very successful was that if you were an able-bodied person on welfare, you had to do some work.
You had to do something.
And,
Yeah.
|
and that's been tried, that was tried in Alabama too,
and it got shot down.
Yeah.
I and I don't understand the reasoning for it.
I really don't.
It, it seems perfectly logical that if somebody's going to take public money, then they should return something to the public.
I mean, if nothing else, go out along an interstate and pick up garbage.
That's exactly what they were trying to get them to do.
Yeah.
What do they, what do they do in Maryland,
do they use highway people
or do they use prisoners?
Um, both.
Yeah.
that's the way they did it in Alabama, too.
Yeah,
they use both.
usually you'd see these big chain gangs out there, picking up trash.
Uh, they have a, they have another program in Maryland that's called Adopt A Highway.
Uh-huh,
|
uh-huh.
Yeah,
we have that here in North Carolina.
Well, good afternoon to you, Mary.
First, let me ask you, what's, what's the weather like up there to begin with?
And good,
Well, well, today, uh, when I got up it was twenty-nine degrees.
Yes,
and it managed to get up to about fifty this afternoon
but it's been cloudy, overcast and threatening rain all day.
That sounds more like our winter weather down here.
And we've also had extremely strong winds, fifteen to twenty miles an hour, for the day.
Um.
Well, you know, I bet that's what we, that storm we had last night.
Is that right?
Oh, we had a frog strangler go sweeping through here, uh, yesterday and last night.
And we're expecting another one tonight.
Oh, really?
Oh, I mean it was raining so hard you could swim down the street.
We had one of those two days ago. But not, uh, but, uh, no rain at all yesterday and, uh, no rain today.
|
Uh-huh.
Well, it's probably on its way up there.
It was heading north.
Thanks a lot
couldn't you send us some nice weather?
Well, it was nice today.
Oh, was it?
Uh, in between the thunder showers,
yes.
Well, the, one thing's for sure we can always discuss the weather,
how some ever we can't do very much to change it.
Well, you know, what they say about the weather here in Texas?
What's that?
If you, if you don't like it, wait five minutes, it'll change.
Oh, yes,
well that's about the way our weather is here also.
Uh-huh.
And I grew up in Saint Louis,
and Saint Louis was much the same.
Uh-huh.
|
Well, tell me, uh, is, is it normally that cold up there in, in the Spring?
No,
it's not.
This is, uh, about, uh, ten degrees cooler than usual.
But about a week ago we were up to eighty and eighty-five degrees.
You're kidding?
No,
no,
it, uh, it fluctuates from one extreme to the other it seems.
You, are you sure you didn't leave your refrigerator door open?
I'm sure I didn't.
I was ready to turn on the air conditioning.
It, no, it really was extremely warm.
It only got down to about sixty-five in the evening.
Um-hum.
We had about three or four days of that,
and then all of a sudden a cold front came down and, uh, temperatures dropped thirty degrees in a very short length of time.
And, uh, it has gone down gradually each day.
This morning it was twenty-nine,
yesterday it was about thirty-two.
|
Uh, cars were scraping, ice off their cars this morning if they've been sitting out all night.
Oh.
So it, it really wasn't too, wasn't too pleasant
Oh, Mother Macree.
No,
I should say not.
Well, I, I, sincerely hope that you don't have that terrible storm we had.
Oh, I hope, not.
I hope, it doesn't reach you up there.
Well, they are predicting rain and thunderstorms,
and I wouldn't be a bit surprised by what we would not be getting the same weather you had.
Well, I,
let's hope it,
well, if it's the same as what we had, at least it'll be warmer.
Uh, yeah.
Yes,
warm rain,
well, of course, by the time it gets up here it may run into a cold front coming down from Canada.
Yeah,
oh, boy,
|
the, that, whew, that would be tear disastrous. If you, had that rain storm and freezing weather.
Yes.
Yes.
Oh.
We had, uh, a week ago they had golf ball size hail coming down in one part of the, uh, of the city of Dayton itself.
Uh-huh.
And, uh, then we just had about an inch and a half or two inches of rain in less than an hour.
It was just coming down by the bucketfulls and a great deal of lightning.
Oh, yes.
So, it, it wasn't, uh, it wasn't conditions to being out in it
and I had just gotten home.
We had a lot of tornado warnings also.
And I had gotten home shortly before that, uh, the rain started.
So, uh, I felt a little more secure that I was at home rather than having to be out driving in it.
Uh-huh.
Well, uh, I heard on the news this morning that, um, one of our local schools, uh, lost the roof of their gymnasium.
Is that right?
And they suspected may have been a tornado.
Uh-huh.
But, uh, uh, thank God for small favors, the, uh, uh,
|
what do they call them? The, the, the marching band or something?
Yeah.
Uh, uh, had just quit rehearsal about a half hour before.
Oh, they,
that was, very, very fortunate for them because that could have really been disastrous.
Oh, and how.
Well, of course this is tornado season, uh,
in to, uh,
we have many tornadoes spawned in this area. And northern Indiana,
now we're in the southwestern part of, uh, Ohio, just forty miles north, due north of Cincinnati,
Uh-huh.
and, uh, but, uh, northern Indiana, has many tornadoes come roaring across.
And we get the backlash off of it, if not the part of the tornado itself.
Uh-huh.
So, uh, we, you know, we get a lot of bad weather in this area.
But of course you're supposed to be the sun belt,
and I do know that you get some freezing weather down there on occasion.
Oh, yeah.
Well, during the winter,
yes,
|
we do.
Uh, we've had, uh, well, past four or five years, I guess, at least one day during the year when just everything would just close down because we'd have freezing rain.
Um-hum.
And, uh, of course people down here, they just don't know how to handle themselves
and,
Right.
Yes,
I was going to say that it does make a difference when you're not accustomed, to, uh, having to, drive in it.
Well, uh, not only that,
but, we're, we're don't have the equipment to handle it either.
Right,
right.
Uh, they go out there,
And,
and the,
well all you can do with, with, uh, freezing rain of course, is spread sand on the ice.
Right.
And, but, uh, you know, we don't even have vehicles that will do that.
Um-hum.
Right.
|
Well, uh, well here what they do and I, I contend that it's certainly not the right thing to do, they spread salt.
And of course the salt does melt the ice,
but then what melts immediately freezes and becomes, uh, a perpetual problem.
Oh, it sure does do that.
Yeah,
they, well we, they do that down here too.
They mix the salt in with the sand.
Well, sand, and, uh,
but I have learned to do, is, uh, now that I am alone, is, uh, to carry bags of salt in the trunk of my car.
Um, not only in case I need it for that for traction but for additional weight, in the, back of the car.
Yes.
Uh-huh.
And then of course kitty litter is also excellent for that. I don't know whether you've ever thought in terms of, that
Uh-huh.
I've,
but,
no,
I'm a dog lover myself.
yeah.
Well Well, the dogs don't use litter.
|
But kitty litter is excellent for, uh, getting under the wheels of cars
and what have you and giving you traction.
I guess it would be.
Uh-huh.
Yeah,
it, uh, works out, uh, really quite well.
Course I have, I have a dog also.
My son brought me a little Lhasa Apso, uh, for my birthday last Thanksgiving.
Oh.
He brought him from Dallas.
He,
Oh, wasn't that nice of him?
Yes,
that, uh,
he just thought I had been without a dog, uh, for three years.
That was long enough.
Uh,
He, he had,
I have, uh, a, a Chowperd myself.
Oh, a what?
|
A Chowperd.
Now that one I'm not familiar with.
Well, she's part Chow and part Shepherd.
Uh, okay.
Okay,
that makes sense then
Uh-huh.
But she's the best, the best of both breeds.
I believe,
Yes,
right,
well, I've always had big dogs before. Never had a little dog before.
Well, June, is medium sized.
And,
Yes
well, Oh, well, I had a German shorthair that was frightened of storms.
But she is scared to death of thunder storms.
The minute it would begin to storm, he would just panic.
Uh-huh.
And, uh, I had to push him down when he was fourteen,
|
and two months later I had to put my yellow Lab down, because he had leukemia.
Oh.
And, uh, then, uh, then there was no point in having all my acreage.
I had four and a half acres with game preserve on three sides.
Oh, that must be nice.
Oh, well, it was great.
I loved it.
But then I didn't need all that anymore, so I finally sold that,
and I'm in a fair size condo.
And I have a nice size patio.
Uh-huh.
And, uh, so this little dog has plenty of room to run.
Well, good.
Yeah,
and he is a, a cutie
and, uh, but I've never had a dog I had to keep taking to the groomer's to have groomed either
No,
well, now, you know, it sounds like you ought to be in a condo down in Miami Beach somewhere. Or better yet, down around Saint Petersburg, Florida.
And it's,
Is that right?
|
Uh-huh.
That's what I call home.
Oh, is that right?
I lived there for ten years.
Oh, well I was there once way, way back in nineteen-sixty, I think for just a week's vacation.
Uh-huh.
But, uh, I, that's about the only time I've been to Florida, except passing through on the way to someplace else.
Yep.
But, uh,
Well, I lived there in the seventies.
Uh-huh.
And, uh, I, I love it.
I have two sons still living down there.
Um-hum.
Well, uh, uh, most of my friends do spend a lot of time down in Florida.
But, uh, I have just, that's just not been my thing.
We used to always head west or head north.
Now that I'm alone why, uh, I, uh, prefer to travel overseas if I'm going anywhere.
Oh, uh-huh.
And, uh, course there too you never know what the weather's going to be.
|
When you, start getting over, to,
Well, that's, that's why I was suggesting, uh, that Saint Petersburg is got, got to be the finest weather in the world.
Oh, is that right?
Oh, I, I loved it down there.
Um.
Course you could tell, always tell which were the, the and which ones were the snowbirds.
Yeah.
Oh, is that right?
Yeah,
the snowbirds were the,
Okay,
so I think, I think what we should talk about is, uh, the war.
Okay.
The war that just went on.
See, I, I don't agree with it.
First of all I don't believe in war.
Uh-huh.
And then, the United States has this attitude by saying, you know, thank you for keeping us our freedom and stuff like that.
And I think it's all independent because, it's, it has nothing to do with the United States.
You didn't gain anything from it.
|
Uh-huh.
And it wasn't our freedom that you were saving.
It was just,
the thing, the thing that, that, that I saw was okay,
Iraq wants to raise oil prices.
Uh-huh.
Kuwait wants to take Iraq out of the whole system, by leaving them independent.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
And so, when Iraq, you know, saw this, they said let's take over the country, which is a good idea,
right?
Uh-huh.
Then the United States says, okay, our, our oil prices are going to go up.
And like for example, see, okay, like Lithuania right, they declared themselves an independent country with a president,
right.
Uh-huh.
Russia goes in there, well the main government in Moscow goes in there
and they kick everybody's ass.
And the United States doesn't go in there
and say, listen, they were, you know, named an independent, you know, state with a president and everything
|
but we're not going to go into your country.
Uh-huh.
But these countries here, which, you know, are, you know, like in NINETEEN EIGHTY-FOUR,
have you ever read that book?
No,
huh-uh.
Okay,
NINETEEN EIGHTY-FOUR there are like three big continents
and, uh, there's just this area, like around Egypt and stuff, that everybody's fighting over.
Uh-huh.
Now the problem is, is that nobody's going to invade anybody else's boundaries.
Uh-huh.
Right,
like their immediate boundaries. Like you're not going to go, you know, it's like the Army's not going to go straight into Russia because there you're, you're invading their border,
right.
Uh-huh.
But all the other countries, you can fight about.
Uh-huh.
And so the thing is, is that you're wasting so much money to send, you know,
it's like how much money did the U S spend when they could have paid so much money for each barrel of oil that was being,
|
We'll probably never know how much it actually cost.
And you know, it's, it was basically all based on oil because nobody
actually, like for example, if, uh, let's say if, you know Brazil took over you know, Surinam. I don't think anybody would care.
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
You know, and, uh, that's something that, that has been, you know, very,
because, see the thing is, is like every time that I see a war, I see myself on the front line, and on the other side I see myself again, and I've got to shoot myself, you know.
Uh-huh.
I got to shoot somebody that's got the same family that I do. You know, the same relationships that I do.
Uh-huh.
And just because I was born here I've got to shoot them down.
Uh-huh,
oh, it's never a pleasant thing,
that's true.
And, uh, but at least it was, it was over quick
and there weren't that many deaths.
Yes
that's,
Now the only problem is, is the aftermath, that you're having so many deaths in the border with, uh, Turkey.
Yes.
|
Yes,
that's really unfortunate,
it really is.
I don't know if we stopped too soon,
I don't, I don't, I really don't know what we need to do about that.
Well, there's something that, that the U S did right which is say, say, you know, okay,
let's kick him out of Kuwait, which was our basic goal.
Uh-huh.
And, uh, now, indirectly let's try to overthrow him, you know.
Uh-huh.
And they're not going to do that directly.
But the thing is, is that, they, they didn't go into, into Iraq and say, you know, because they have the force to go in there and say get out of the country.
Uh-huh.
You know, you can seek, seek asylum here,
Yeah.
and you can go there,
but no way are you going to rule ever again.
Uh-huh.
I've been hearing some talk too of trying to bring Hussein up on, you know, criminal charges.
I don't know if that will ever happen or not.
|
Well the thing is, is that first of all they got to, they they have to get him.
Uh-huh,
which is very difficult to do.
And, and there's no way that you can get them, unless it's by force.
Uh-huh.
You know. And then you can put him on trial.
Obviously, he's not going to turn himself in.
No,
no,
I think, I think he'd rather commit suicide than turn himself in, because there's, I mean there's like, it's like there's no hope, you know, like what Hitler did, you know.
Uh-huh.
You know, like if you were going to put on trial you get to live the rest of your life, but where.
True,
yeah,
uh-huh.
You know, and so, um, the thing is, is that once you've done something wrong, which is you know, internationally recognized, then you're going to try to get out of it
and the, there's no way, you know. And especially since he's got inside Iraq for using, you know, chemical weapons and stuff.
Yeah,
true.
Uh-huh.
|
And you know like he sent planes over to, to shoot the people down that were on the border with, uh, that were on their way to Turkey.
Uh-huh.
He had a couple of them bombarded.
Yeah,
yeah,
obviously human life means nothing to him.
Huh-uh.
But, uh, you know, he's got, uh, millions of dollars,
like, I think it was like, I don't know if it was fifty billion or fifty million, which is really, doesn't make any difference
Oh yeah.
That's true.
Past a point it doesn't make any difference.
Yeah.
Yeah,
that's really, really unfortunate.
It really is.
But it's just, it's just that, uh, you know, you know, like the,
we just put our goals in different, you know, levels is
like saying, you know, it's like
yeah,
|
sure,
we need oil, you know,
Uh-huh.
and we need it desperately.
Yeah.
But the other countries, that, you know, that have oil but not as big, you know, like they say, you know, like when the prices went up and then they went down.
Uh-huh.
When they took that big dip it was because they discovered another big oil well somewhere in Saudi Arabia, or something.
Uh-huh.
Seems like the prices never go down to where they were originally, though, before, before the increase started.
Well, it, its an advantage.
Uh-huh.
You know, it's like you're saying, okay, I can bring my prices up to a dollar fifty a gallon and I'm not going to bring them back down to, you know, ninety-nine cents.
Uh-huh.
Why,
because people are willing to pay a dollar fifty a gallon,
so if I leave it at a dollar ten, people are still going to pay.
True.
You know, I went down forty cents,
Uh-huh.
|
but I went up ten cents.
Yeah.
Yeah.
About the lowest I've seen gasoline in the Dallas area is, uh, I guess, about ninety-two point nine now.
Ninety-eight?
Ninety-two.
Oh, God.
Here it's like, it's like a dollar five.
Oh really.
Yeah.
Well there's still a lot of dollar five places here
but you can find some that's under a dollar, but not, not a whole lot.
That's the lowest I've seen.
But still the,
I mean, have you ever checked, like, uh, the most money-makers in, uh, in nineteen, uh, ninety.
Uh, you can see that, uh, Exxon and Amaco and uh, other companies, oh God, I forgot their names, but, uh, Exxon was the number one money-maker,
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
and that was just because of, of the last quarter.
Right,
|
I think Mobil was doing very well, too.
Yeah.
Well I, I assume all the major, major brands are.
And, uh, that was,
I mean and what other companies are, went up four hundred and some percent.
Uh-huh.
And that's practically impossible to do now a days, for a company to, to shoot up in that way.
That's true.
Yeah,
yeah,
that's true.
And, uh, it's just that, you know, people, people take advantage of that.
You know, like the, the companies are saying we're trying not to raise our prices but when, you know, when we get a barrel coming in at more than what we're selling it for, we've got to raise our prices.
Uh-huh.
You know, but still if you realize that, uh, one barrel has like, how much was it, like, um forty gallons,
Yeah,
something like,
yeah.
it's got forty gallons
and they're selling, you know, you know,
|
you got to pay forty dollars at least and, you know, for, uh, for one gallon
Yeah.
and it's, it was selling like at twenty-five or something.
Uh-huh.
So you're making, uh, you know, fifteen dollars profit, easily.
Yeah,
yeah,
sure.
And, uh, everything,
I mean, and, and, the expenses, you know, of the war, you know, it's like, uh, it's like who's gaining on this.
Uh-huh.
Okay,
because, uh, does, does the U S government own any gas companies, like, like, you know gas stations and stuff?
Uh-huh.
I, because, see like for example, I don't know if the British government owns Shell.
I'm not sure about that.
I'm not sure either.
But the thing is like the U S government got nothing out of it. Because, well, you know, it's like the other independent companies, the gas stations, you know, they did.
Uh-huh.
And, uh, then the taxes go up
|
and then everybody else loses.
Uh-huh.
But, um, you know, they're just, they're just some things that might not be worth it.
Yeah,
that's true.
You know, and, and first of all how many, how many people had to, had to die before the war, you know,
it's like transporting stuff and things like that, before, you know, it's like
Uh-huh,
yeah.
yeah
sure, you know, like to, to a couple people that died there, their families don't feel it was necessary to do that.
Sure,
dead's dead.
Yeah,
yeah,
you, you could, you could never bring them back.
That's true,
so.
Oh well.
Well, I don't guess we resolved anything
|
but it's interesting.
Yeah,
so, okay,
nice talking to you.
To you too,
take care.
Bye-bye.
Bye-bye.
All right,
I, I think our experience of camping is,
I, I am the, the passive member,
I get things ready and then I enjoy.
Uh-huh.
Uh, because, my, my husband is a good camper
and so they,
he manages the troops
and they do the work
and I have fun
Uh-huh.
Well, uh, uh, your, you said your family was uh, all grown up now,
|
how about when they were younger,
did you go take them camping?
That's when we camped the most.
Uh-huh.
When,
I thinks it's a marvelous activity for younger families because, uh, I, it seems like I would go through a period of time where I just, uh, was really overworked, you know,
and, and getting out into nature and relaxing, and having the family do a good share of the work, you know,
Uh-huh.
and the part that I did was more fun than, uh, than labor because they did the, the running and toting chores and I just helped cook and kind of organize, you know.
Yeah
even cooking over an open fire is a little more fun, isn't it.
It is,
isn't it.
It isn't.
what kinds of things have you tried?
Have you done, uh, uh, uh, the big pot cooking?
Oh, oh, uh, well, it was really my ex who did the, the, uh, uh, the cooking back when we first started
and we found that the, you know, what was one, one great handy things was this, uh, uh, uh, hamburger helper. Because all you needed was a big frying pan,
Oh, yeah.
Big frying
|
you dumped everything in together
and it was enough for all five of us, six of us.
Oh, that's interesting.
You know, interesting enough, uh, the food part was kind of, uh, important thing in our camping.
Uh, when my oldest son, uh,
always at the beginning I did all the shopping and everything.
But the, the neat breakthrough was when my oldest son Mark took his, uh, uh, cooking merit badge in,
and, and Mark was the kind of camper who ate beef stroganoff
and, uh, I mean, you know, he did it up really good
Oh.
And so, uh, after he took that merit badge, he did all the shopping and preparing, getting ready for it.
Well that's great.
It was, it was a marvelous experience because after that, then all I had to do was, uh, follow the instructions, you know and do.
And we did a lot of interesting kinds of things
like I would take corn bread and, uh, cook a pan inside of a pan over a, over a camp, uh, stove.
Uh-huh.
And it works real good.
It's like an oven.
Well, cooking was our secondary interest,
Just put, uh, put a thing on it.
|
I mean.
What did you like to do most?
Well really just commune with nature.
That's neat isn't it?
We started out, uh,
well we were living in Florida at the time
and we, early in life, we discovered that six people all going on vacation gets to be very, very expensive.
Right.
I agree.
So my ex decided, we're going to try camping
and she went out one day on the spur of the moment and bought a tent.
And that's how we got started.
Huh.
We did it for years and years, uh.
Well now in Florida, is is there are there times of the year when it's very comfortable to camp or is it always kind of hot.
Well, uh,
yes and no.
I mean, um, in the winter time yes,
it's, it gets kind of chilly or it can get chilly.
Uh-huh.
|
But, uh, there's really no time of the year that you can't go.
Oh, is that true?
Uh,
Now, now we're, we're in Texas now
and you're in Texas,
right.
Yes,
I'm in Dallas.
Okay, uh,
we have not camped a great deal here because, uh, a good share of the time in the Summer time, it's too hot really to be very comfortable camping.
Well, it just depends on where you go,
for instance, if you went down to the sea shore, it would be wonderful, a nice breeze blowing in from the water.
I
Yeah,
yeah,
we have done that
But, but we camped mostly,
when the kids were little we were in, we were in New Jersey, and Uh, in, uh, Allendale and, uh, and, uh, Waldwick,
it's just about twelve miles south of, the New York border.
And we'd go up to the Adirondacks and camp
|
and it was so, you know, pick your own, uh, blueberries and make blueberry pancakes for breakfast
Oh yes,
yes,
Uh, also,
I I come from up in that area,
go ahead.
I'm a New Yorker myself.
Oh, are you?
Where did you live?
A little town called Tuckaho, over by White Plains.
Oh, oh yeah,
I know that.
I had a cousin who lived in White Plains,
that's a, that's a neat area.
But it's a, that is a particularly neat area for camping because,
Well that I wouldn't know
I left there when I was quite young.
Yeah,
it is neat though because there are lots of lakes, fairly near by,
you don't have to go very far.
|
Uh-huh.
And, uh, and there's, uh, a lot of trees, lot of mountains, and lot of, uh, hiking sort of things
and, and we had, uh, collapsible boat which we, clipper, little clipper sail boat.
Uh-huh.
And so we would sail and, and, uh, did a lot of camping that way.
Well, uh, me, I outgrew, uh, sleeping bags and, uh, tents,
and I now have a motor home.
Oh, do you.
We've gotten out a time or two on a rented basis
and it's fun, too, I think.
Well I live in mine.
Do you?
Yes.
That's neat,
so you kind of, uh, uh, an everyday camper
Uh, well, yes
I consider myself what they call a full-timer.
A full time camper.
Yeah
Well now, are you living alone now,
|
or,
well just me and my dog.
You and your dog, huh,
Yeah.
Hey,
that sounds great.
Well, we don't, we don't camp quite as much as we used to,
but, uh, I still think it's a great way to spend a time with your family, and enjoy nature and, uh, kind of wipe out the stress of everyday life.
Oh yes,
definitely.
I'd always,
Nothing like the fresh outdoors.
right,
I'd always come home just relaxed and, uh, comfortable and ready to go at it again,
so it was a neat activity.
Good to talk to you.
Tell me your name again.
Jack.
Jack,
Uh-huh.
|
all right.
Are you, uh, from Dallas too, Beth.
yes,
we've been here,
we're, we're in Plano,
Oh!
but we've been here about, uh, eighteen years.
Well that's where we, that's where I am,
Plano.
Are you, are you,
how about that.
Well we're all, lots of people from T I up this way.
Uh-huh.
All right,
good to talk to you.
Nice talking to you too, Beth.
All right,
all right,
bye-bye.
Bye.
|
Okay,
how do you feel about them?
Well, I keep trying to get away from them,
I used to use a lot of credit cards
I guess for a while I would use, you know, a variety of the Visa and the MasterCard and the stores,
but I think I, I impulse buy too much with them
or I buy things, you know, I see it on sale
and I think, oh, it's on sale I have to get it,
and I really don't need it
or I really haven't budgeted for it
so, um, the last couple of years I really have tried not to use them at all.
Yeah.
What about you?
Well, we have this philosophy, we use it when we go off somewhere
but we pay for it as soon as we come back, you know,
as soon as we get our bills, we pay it off.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
And we only have one.
We tore all the rest of them up.
|
okay.
Because I don't like credit cards for one thing, you know,
I mean, they're okay, I guess,
if you're on a trip or something, you don't have to take a whole bunch of, you know, cash with you,
Uh-huh.
Right.
but I don't like using them because I've seen too many people that used them and ended up bankrupt or on, chapter thirteen and stuff like that.
Huh.
Uh-huh.
Because they have this weird opinion that if you use that card, you don't have to pay for it.
That's true
if, if it's on the credit card it doesn't seem like it's money out of your pocket.
Sometimes you may think, well, I don't have the money so you use the credit card it's like fake money or something.
Yeah,
yeah,
and it gives you a, um, a false sense of security or something it seems like
because you say, oh, well, I don't have to pay for it now
but you're going to have to pay for it,
and it seems like ...
Yeah,
|
you think, well, I don't have it now but payday will come and then I'll have the money.
Uh-huh.
But that's probably paying for things that were still owed from last time,
Right.
Are you married?
Yes.
Oh, okay.
Well, I know that a lot of young people, you know, I,
it took me a long time to get it through my child's head,
I mean, that was her goal, you know, uh, got to have a credit card,
Uh-huh.
but now that she has one,
she's only used it one time
but she wanted to establish some credit,
Uh-huh.
but I think it finally sunk in, you know, because she saw some of the other people and just like she heard them say, you know, well, I used a credit card.
And my husband's sister is the world's worst at, oh,
well, I'll just use the credit cards
and she has all of her credit cards up to the limit.
Huh.
|
You know, and I'm, I'm thinking woman, wake up and smell the roses before they come and get you.
But ...
Right.
Besides the fact that how much interest you pay and then this ...
Right,
and people don't see that either.
Yeah,
this thing that you thought you got on sale, by the time you get done paying with that with all the finance charges because you pay it off over a long period of time,
you've spent a heck of a lot of money on that thing.
Right.
The only one that we, we have that we kept was the Discover card,
Uh-huh.
and it pays you to use it. I mean, if you pay your bill off right away, if you don't ever have to pay any interest on it because they give you a certain amount every time that you use it,
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
and you make that money as long as you don't ever have to pay them any, uh, interest.
Now it's,
and people say, well, you know, I'm making money by using this credit card,
but they don't realize that if they,
I mean, it only takes one time for you to use it and not pay the interest,
|
I mean, you have to pay the interest, not pay it right off,
Uh-huh.
that's going to take up what you would have made.
Huh.
So that's the only reason that we kept that,
we debated for a long time
plus they don't have that, um, charge on it, you know,
like ...
Service charge you mean?
Yeah.
Yearly fee,
yeah.
Right.
They don't have one of those.
So, it,
we decided that was it, you know,
and, I mean, everybody calls us and wants to give us a credit card.
We have, we could have credit cards running down our ears.
Oh, you get that stuff in the mail all the time.
Yes,
|
yes.
And then, I'll have, just like , uh, department stores.
They'll call me up, you know,
and I'll say,
look, I don't want the credit card,
well, we're just going to send it to you, you know,
you don't have to ever use it if you don't want to.
They'll send me any credit card,
I tear it up.
I just can't see it.
What I really hate in the mail is like for the credit cards that I do have still, that they send you these things that look like checks,
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
and they say, hey, you know, two thousand dollars, you know, free to you kind of thing, you know,
all you got to do is go cash those things
and you've got a short term loan.
I hate it,
I know it,
and you know what ...
I can't believe they have the nerve to do that.
|
What's really bad about those though is just like
young people if they don't, you know,
we take the time to, you know, help my daughter,
she's in college,
Uh-huh.
but it, this is her first credit card thing,
well, when she got her first one she was so excited
it was unreal.
Look at this they sent me this money, you know.
So then when I explained to her, look you have to pay this back and they are going to charge you interest, and stuff ,
of course, she tore it up.
But a lot of parents would not take the time, you know,
and they wouldn't even think of it
or their kids may not be as close as my daughter
and I
are,
and, uh, you know, they may not even discuss it,
they go out and cash their check thinking that, you know,
they've got something,
maybe they've won something.
|
You know, somebody sent them something free.
Uh-huh.
And go out and spend it.
And, um, it's just unreal.
I mean, I don't like credit cards,
I wish that they would come up with some other way to, you know,
the only way you could use them is if you were, like on vacation.
They would let you use it maybe once a year.
You know, I mean, of course, I guess some people go out and spend their whole entire limit on it like that at that time
but, um, I have seen so many people
and I have a friend right now she just got off of thirteen.
She got, uh,
I can't remember what she called it,
it's some kind of,
maybe it's sure or something like that,
it's something, it's some weird name of a credit card,
Uh-huh.
and she is charging out of her mind already.
And I'm going,
you just got off.
|
That's how you got on to it to start with, you know, what is the matter with this person,
Yeah.
But, um, it seems like people just, you know, they just think, well, I can just have anything I want.
And I just don't see it like that.
Of course, I always see pay the bills first
and whatever's leftover, that's what you have,
but, um, maybe a lot of people don't see it like that,
but I can't stand owing.
I mean, I cannot fully tolerate to owe something like, you know,
I guess it's just because I've been brought up like that.
But, um, I could not charge to the limit and knowing that I was going to have to pay this thing out for ever and maybe suffer from having to payout.
But, that's just the way I feel about it.
Yeah,
I think it's, it's somewhat a, uh, symptom of our, me generation
and that,
we think we need all these things
and I think my parents always, you know, did without or saved up to, you know, buy things
and we consider that so many of these things we just have to have, you know,
like when I first got my apartment and I was setting it up I did try to economize some
but, you know, I was just like, well, I have to have it all furnished and I have to have all of my kitchen setup
|
and you don't, you know, do without too much
and, you know, that's how I got started kind of with setting up a household all up, you know, it kind of like, in the short amount of time.
You know, you just have to have these things just, you know, have them at home, have to have them at my own place
and that's, you know, a big expenditure to start, um, buying all these things that you think or, or have to have
and actually they're kind of luxuries
or you should save up slowly and keep buying them and not just rush out and furnish the whole place, you know, going in one big swoop, save up and then buy it.
Right.
yeah.
But we're not into that.
We're into like, have to have it all now.
oh, yeah.
I guess it is like that though because it seems like more and more people are like that.
But, um, I guess it's because I'm older,
I mean, I'm not real old
but I am older
and, um, you know, I didn't feel like that I didn't feel like I had to have everything.
I guess it was because,
well, I had everything when I was at home
but I, I don't know why I didn't.
Well, we're geared to that.
|
We're like,
okay,
like I want a living room set. And instead of sitting back and, and going, okay, well, it's going to cost maybe a thousand dollars, two thousand dollars
and I'll save for two years,
uh-huh.
people go, oh, well, I'll just go buy it, put it on credit and they'll pay it off.
yeah.
People aren't tuned in to like saving for it and then buying it,
they just put it on a charge card, put it on account, and then pay off the bill because they want it now.
Huh.
It's always have to have it now.
Yeah,
well, it didn't hurt you, did it, to,
I mean, you didn't go out and charge a whole bunch and lose everything, did you?
no,
no,
but I have had some times when I've had some pretty good balances on there
and, uh, you know, I finally, you know, paid them all off and thought this is, you know, kind of nonsense.
So, we don't, uh, have big balances on them at,
all now we're, we're, you know, we,
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I use it occasionally
but I pay it right off.
We're ...
Yeah,
well, you learned then,
right?
Yeah,
you learn the, you know, the hard way, you hate paying all that interest
and I've never been one to itemize on my income, tax and never had enough to itemize
and so it's just a big chunk of money
and you realize that you're not buying anything on sale your paying, so much more for that item, because you've got finance charge and the cost of having that card every year which is what, forty dollars sometimes just to have the card.
Yeah.
That's, a lot of money that you went to buy this item.
Uh-huh.
And then you never feel like you've got anything to to put into savings or anything,
you're always just paying bills, paying bills, you know,
you don't feel that you have any extra to save.
And I hate, I hate living paycheck to paycheck.
I like to have a little there, you know,
that I can, save
|
so I can feel that, you know, if something comes up I've got the money to pay for it, .
We're supposed to talk about the Middle East Crisis, and should we be involved and, uh, what's it going to cost us in the long run.
Oh, okay.
Okay.
Are you ready?
I guess so.
The Middle East Crisis should we be there?
Oh, dear that's a hard one.
That's really hard for me because, uh, you know, I really, I have a son that's sixteen
and I think, you know, eventually, you know, he'll be of, of drafting age.
And I think gosh, do I want him to go
and yet I'm proud to be an American
and I know that we have a country that, you know, people would give anything to live in, a lot of people anyway because we have so many wonderful things that they don't have.
And yet, I don't know whether I'd be willing to give his life for, for this country
and yet, and yet, I know that I, that,
and I, I, when I was in school it was always the tired, the tired excuse that we went to war to save us against communism
but I'm not sure that that's the reason anymore. I mean, not sure that communism is, is as strong as it once was.
And I'm not sure that, that that's the reason why we're, like we were in Vietnam supposedly so.
Well, you realize why we were in the Middle East. Why we invaded Iraq, why we were in Saudi, why we attacked Kuwait and we we're, why we are still fighting Iraq.
Well, with the,
|
Well, it's because of oil isn't it?
No.
I really believe it's because,
I think it has something to do with oil, don't get me wrong.
Uh-huh.
But Saddam is, Saddam is a madman.
Oh, yeah.
I agree with that.
Anyone that would use chemical weapons to fight his own people,
Oh, yeah.
Well, yeah,
he's, uh, a bad person, very definitely,
And, obviously, that has something to do with it.
yeah.
Oh, sure.
And, and if, you know,
I can see that he was in Kuwait
Uh-huh.
Kuwait was the nonaggressor
Uh-huh,
|
uh-huh.
and the Saudis are our allies.
We have several treaties and several alliances with the Saudis that range back for probably forty years.
Yeah,
many years.
You know they've been our friends through thick and thin.
Uh-huh.
They, were at the Saudi border. And ready to storm into Saudi.
Well,
Uh-huh.
Shouldn't we try and help our friends?
Certainly,
but what at, at what cost, you know,
that's the, uh, the thing, it came out, it came out wonderfully supposedly
I mean everything is
What did we lose, forty-one Americans, lives.
and we won.
Yeah,
and that, that's wonderful
but what if, if that wasn't the case.
|
What if we would have lost thousands of young men.
Would that, would it have been too much of a price to pay for that?
I don't know.
See, and I think there are a lot of things that we don't know
but, that,
Oh,
of course, our government is full of liars, thieves, and crooks.
the American people,
Oh, sure.
Well, and there's a lot, that we,
And that's, our own fault because we elected them.
Yeah.
I think that's true
but I think there's a lot that we, the public doesn't need to know.
I think there's some things we shouldn't know just for national security sake.
And I, you know, I think if we did know I think there would be a lot more chaos than there is because I don't, I don't think people could handle it.
So I think there are things that we should not know, the masses shouldn't know
but I also agree that there are a lot of crooks and liars too.
You know, it's, uh,
I went on jury duty here not long back.
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