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Right. Right. Right. You are finding out who you are. But is not that difficult to do when you are working full time and have to come home and prepare a meal and, get homework done, Well, I think, and, you know, where do you find the time. Um. Well, in the first place it's not your homework, it's your children's homework. Uh-huh. And I was always very careful to be there only when they came to me and asked me for help, Uh-huh. I helped them with exactly what they asked for and that's all. Yeah. That's a part of the problem that women have always had and that is accepting responsibility for things that really are other people's responsibilities. That's very true. They, They, And then that way, we have not changed in, hundreds of years, have we.
That's right. Yeah. That way husbands are crippled, Yeah. they are intellectual cripples, Uh-huh. and so are children. Uh-huh. They do not know how to think for themselves and be responsible, for themselves. Uh-huh. I do not know why God made women brilliant I, Didn't he though Yes, but I do not know they tend to look at the mother as the one who solves all problems. They, are all things to all people, That's very true. and that's never changed. That's, that's very true.
I, as a matter of fact I was talking to a friend yesterday, who said she has a new policy in her home and when her, her family comes to her and says, fix this, you know, I am having a problem with, you know, another member of the family, Uh-huh. Uh-huh. she said I have taken a new stance, and I say, no, I will not. Uh-huh. You know, you work it out for yourself. Uh-huh. And she said, it's amazing, she said, you know, Uh-huh. every single person in this family expects me to get, and they suck me into these arguments and, these conversations That's right. and I I am supposed to be the one who is going to fix it all and, and soothe everybody. And she said I am not doing it anymore. I, I just, You know I think that's one of the things that we have today that is very useful,
and I think every woman ought to deal with it or, ought to at least be exposed to it, and that is mediation training. Um, uh-huh. Uh, we are not talking about strikes or things we are talking about mediators who get involved in family crises, parents and children, husbands and wives, uh, you know, boss and employee. Those kinds of things. Interpersonal mediation, Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Yeah, yeah. because, the mediator is an unbiased bystander who, We're to discuss a little bit about the process of putting someone in a nursing home and making the decision on a family basis and, probably the first question would be whether you've ever had to go through that process. Well, not so much personally but my, um, husband has an aunt who has been like a second mother, I mean always lived in the same town and took care of him and such. They live down in College Station where, his parents do too. And they put her in a home last year. Uh-huh. She appeared to have a couple of light strokes and started to, uh, not be able to be in her apartment on her own. Uh-huh. So they found a, a place nearby that they put her in last year.
So it was pretty much a physical decision? Uh, yeah, although she is, uh, in pretty good health and she's, doesn't take any medication, it's just she had had her own apartment and drove a car and everything up until that point. Um. Then she was starting to get, uh, you know, lose memory sometimes and, which is kind of frightening when she's in the car. Yeah. Uh, My husband's family are reaching that point but it's, it's so difficult. Was she in favor of it or, or was she kind of opposed to it? Well, yeah, when it finally came down to it, um, she just got to the point after the, I mean, it wasn't a very, um, strong stroke. It was just kind of all of a sudden she wasn't herself anymore. Uh-huh. And she got kind of fearful of being on her own. She never really ate very well. It was one thing.
She hardly ever took care of herself Yeah. and she didn't eat. She ate very poor so I think she was, you know, bad, uh, nutrition on top of it. And, uh, she got to the point she didn't want to alone anymore. So, So often I think though, elderly people don't realize that their diet is that bad. I work with a lot of elderly people, I'm a trust officer Um. and so often they think they're adequately caring for themselves when they're really not eating very much or very balanced meals. Well, she was almost ridiculous. Like she'd eat ice cream and cookies. She'd, Yes. Well you know that's part of the aging process, That your taste buds goes back to the sweet taste. Didn't one, It really is. Oh really?
Yeah. Uh-huh. Well she didn't want to cook for herself anymore. Yeah. Oh, that's too much trouble. That's too much trouble. Didn't want to cook. And the portions, people don't want to try to figure out little bitty individual meals. I do that right now, Yeah. and I'm not near nursing home age. Although they've got, uh, Meals On Wheels, Which I understand is a really good, you know, way to handle that so that at least they eat. Yeah. Uh-huh. So as a family you all just visited nursing homes or probably in College Station there wasn't a whole lot of choice. No, I don't think there was. Um, I know a little bit more from a, a co-worker.
Her mother-in-law had been in for quite some time and had different degrees of a place that she was in. Uh-huh. Um, she was ambulatory and so there was a lesser care. Uh, then she got, uh, uh, hip broken and then, uh, she wasn't as ambulatory so they were almost, you know, to the point of saying she can't be here anymore. Uh-huh. But, I remember from her checking around, she ended up staying at the Arkansas House I think out in Arlington, something like that. Uh-huh. And, uh, you know the type of facilities whether it's a shared room or two separate rooms that share uh, a, uh, bathroom. All of them all seem to say that people there are going to steal their items Oh yeah. That's a given. They're always saying that somebody's going to, and some of them, I think unconsciously do it, you know, as a just, you know, half Uh-huh. And sometimes the, the help there does it, I think. Uh So, they, they, uh, don't have too many facilities it seems for their personal items. Very limited space waste Uh-huh. but, um, at least they all seem to have, uh, you know, people that monitor their, uh, medication intake and dining facilities, you know, go to the dining room and, and eat some good meals.
Uh-huh. I know when my friend's mother-in-law first went in, I mean, very antisocial. Maybe it takes a while for them to say, okay, well I'll be with other people but, Adapt. Yeah, I don't understand that, they, they don't want to be with anybody else. Yeah. I, as I think I mentioned, I was in the trust business and I've seen so many elderly people. Usually there has to be some wealth involved, which is great, if, if you're financially, if, if you don't make the decisions so late that you're worried about money but the, the places like Presbyterian Village and some of the, the retirement places where, where they have different levels of care seems to be so much better, as far as elderly people adapting. Uh-huh. They're able to move in while they're still independent and still social Uh-huh. and, and they do group things. And then if health or, or mental capacity deteriorates, they're able to take the next steps without so much change and oh, I wish everybody could go that direction rather than just all of a sudden moving out of the home they've always been in. It's really kind of difficult. Yeah,
I have a, um, my aunt's mother is, uh, gotten ill recently and, uh, she lives in Pennsylvania, they live in Alabama. And they're saying, hey, we need you to be closer and you have, women like that, Yeah. I don't to men, it seems like the women out just out live their husbands, but, very reluctantly, that whole, I mean Uh-huh. they don't get out of the house, they don't socialize but it's my home and I don't want to leave it. Well and it's the first step in, in actually accepting that you are failing and, and aging. Uh. You know once you make that step you know that it's just going to be downhill from then on and, and I've seen people really fight it that desperately needed to make the change. Um.
They, they became, in fact, that's probably what's going to happen with my husband's mother. She's going to endanger herself before she'll willingly and probably will never willingly make the decision. And that scares me the, the thought of forcing somebody to do something. But it's, it's so lonely, you know they can't get out and see anyone and I mean, it's hard for, for someone like me to understand that Yeah. because I I think, what do you have there? It's a house, Uh-huh. it's walls and it's furniture but there's nobody there. Not as independence. Don't you want to be close to me? I mean, you know be with other people. Yeah. I just don't understand why they, so much want to just stay in that building. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
And there's no family there, they don't get to see their grandkids, they don't get to see their children, they just there in that house. Yeah. And the quality of life really isn't there. Yeah. Oh it's tough, it really is. That's from the child's standpoint. The child is going, why don't you want to be close to me and your other family. Uh-huh. What does that house got attraction? Well, they fear being dependent on somebody. I know they're really proud of independence. They, they fear being a burden to, to family members. Uh. My husband's mother will have major surgery and we'll find out about it in a casual conversation. She'll let something slip
and we'll say, wait a minute. And, and that's it, she, just, well I didn't want to bother you. She can't accept that we want to be the care givers. Well, when she got home, who took care of her? Yeah. Well, she stayed, she stayed in a temporary nursing home. Until she was okay. Oh. You know, it's just, but it's frightening to us because we live pretty far from her. She's down in Temple Uh-huh. and we can't see her often enough to really know what's going on. Um So, it's difficult, it really is and we're all heading that way and, Yeah,
my, husband and I, we have been thinking about his folks are in College Station and we've pretty much planned that we'll be here in the Dallas area and there's nothing to hold them there in College Station since they're retired. Uh-huh. So we thought maybe we could get them to move a little closer here. Yeah Okay. We're talking about capital punishment. Right. How do you feel about that Lenore ? I am very much for capital punishment. Well, wonderful. I am too, one hundred percent. My Dad retired from the federal prison of bureaus. Uh-huh. And I've been raised around prison prisons all my life. All your life. Uh-huh. And I believe if you don't have a punishment befitting the crime, there's not any deterrent There's no deterrent.
That's right. There's just no deterrent. That's right. And so many of those kind of people, they got, they have a better life in prison than they have on the street anyway so, you know, unless they really make it rough on them that's not a, going to prison for a little while is not much of a deterrent I don't think. Especially not a federal prison. Right. Well, I don't know what Oklahoma's laws are but Texas's I don't know are, I don't know it's, it's no one's I mean it's not the judge's fault I don't think. It's just the way the law is down here. Man our our, uh, prisons are so crowded that, uh, they can commit some pretty serious crimes and be set free within a year to two. Well, see we were under, uh, the state's prisons were under a mandate to, uh, it was over crowded and the federal came in and said, hey, you know, you have either got to build more prisons or let people go. Well, that's what ours did, same thing. And finally our governor at the time which who is not in office now came in and said, okay, where we draw the line is no sex offenders will be let loose. Under early bail, you know or early, uh get out. Uh-huh,
uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. But, uh, we have, the death penalty is not given often. Huh-uh. But there have been It's not here either really. And you know, I, maybe it should be, uh, well, it should be given, you know, I, I won't say sparingly, but I do believe it should be befitting the crime. I do too and, and you know, but the way the courts are set up they've, they've got so many chances for appeal, but I think I think it needs to be expedited. You know if they've been convicted and given an appeal and they're still convicted of, of a crime that's deserving of, of a lethal injection, let's do it and not waste so many years to do it. Right. Of course, you know, they're, they're entitled to a speedy trial. That's right. But then they're, they're also entitled to drag it through the courts for years and years and years on appeals.
Uh-huh. Uh-huh. So somehow, you know, it doesn't really balance out too much. Yeah. That's right. Somehow it just doesn't, it works and then again it takes too long for it to work. And it seems even though, you know, that they got , the prisoner himself can come to the point that, hey, I'm tired. I just want out. Uh-huh. You know, I'm tired of fighting it. Uh-huh. Then the system just keeps on. Uh-huh, yeah. Yeah, it And at that point you know I, I really think there needs to be maybe a shorter appeal process. I do too.
I think that needs to, and I don't see why it couldn't be shortened considerably. But, you know Well, part of that is the overcrowding of the court system. that's true. It is overcrowded because there's so much drug, uh, problem with the people on drugs because that they, with the drugs they're, they're robbing and killing and, uh, that's why it's filled the prisons up so much I think. Uh, it doesn't, it doesn't help them any at all No, it doesn't. and, of course, your court system when you get into the appeals, I don't believe criminal is in a court by itself. And the whole judicial system is backed up with a lot of junk that shouldn't be in there. Yeah, that's true. With all these lawsuits and people suing people over ridiculous things but, We've gotten into a very litigious, uh, type of life.
Boy, haven't that we though. We really have. But anyway I'm glad to hear that you agree with me on the capital punishment. Well, I just, I'm, I'm very muchly for it. Always have been, always will be. I just feel like their crime and punishment and if, if you don't have the punishment, you double your crime. And the, you know, that is just personal feeling. It's not going on facts. I think the facts would probably back it up It could be supportive. It, it's it's supported with facts though. but, What? It could very easily be supported with facts. Well, yes. I, Um, tell me some about your camping experiences, Carolyn.
Well, um, I have gone to girl's camp a few times, as a, you know, a chaperon or a leader, whatever Okay. where do you go camping at around here? and, uh, I enjoy camping. I, we we have a tent, and we've gone, even with our family a few times out camping and have a camp stove, um, I guess our, our, my biggest memory is when we froze to death We just didn't take enough blankets and whatever. Uh, we went camping at, uh, Lake Bonham, which is, is pretty close here. Um, we went fairly early in the season for this area, which is probably April is when we went, Okay. and, and it got really cold at night, and of course we were close enough that we could go back and get some more blankets and things in the morning, Sure. but, Uh, what, uh, what activities do you do when you're camping? Oh, we take little nature hikes and, and, uh, we take along games that we can play with the, with the kids, and just that kind of stuff. Usually try to have a, uh, occasionally a camp fire at night, you know, and roast the marshmallows and what all. Uh-huh.
Well, that sounds like fun. I, uh, I grew up in South Dakota, up in the Black Hills Oh. and so we used to go camping, my dad would take us, there was, there was four of us kids, we'd, he'd take us, and we'd all go camping, my dad and my mom and, and the kids, and it was always fun, uh, because what I always remember is, my dad would let us pick our camp spot and, uh, he'd always tell us, you know, okay, look for, you know, a nice flat little area where we can pitch our tents, and it always had to be somewhere near a, a river so we could go fishing, and hopefully we'd catch our supper, but we never did Um. but it was, it was always fun. We'd always, Mom was always prepared and she'd bring along, you know, something, because tradition had it we would never catch anything, so we always had, something along to eat,
but then we'd roast, roast marshmallows, and it, it was always an enjoyable experience. Uh, about nineteen eighty-two I moved from Rapid City in the Black Hills, I crossed the state to, to Aberdeen, and, uh, there's no hills, it's flat, and then I was in high school, and, uh, couple of friends, couple of my high school friends and I, we'd go camping out by a river, of course, and, and go fishing, but by then, of course, I was able to catch, uh, catch some things, but, it, it was always fun. It was a different experience camping in the hills versus camping just by a river Uh-huh. you know, in the hills we, we would do like you you folks did, you folks did, would take the nature hikes and, you know, and look for animals, and we always, you know, in the hills, you can see quite a few different animals, but, Uh, Go ahead. We used to live in Utah Okay.
and, uh, of course, there's lots of mountains around there to camp in, and, and streams and stuff. That's, that's a great place to go camping, and the hiking is just really great. You know, hike up those mountains is just really fantastic. Um. Sure. Now is there anything, uh, are there any mountains or big rocks a person could hike around this area. I'm not acquainted with any, you know, I, there's woods and things out in East Texas Tyler area, you know, Okay. there's a Tyler State Park that's, uh, really a nice camping area, but it, it's just a lot of trees, it's not, I don't know of any place in Texas that has, uh, really big, you know, what I call mountains Uh-huh. I, The Rocky Mountains are so much, uh, bigger than anything that they've they've got down here that, Right. Is the one in Tyler, has it been pretty commercialized, I suppose? No,
it's not, well, it's not too bad. They have, um, screened in areas, you know, they're not really cabins, I wouldn't say, I guess they could call them that, but they're, they're more just a screened in, uh, camping area whatever, Okay. they're, they're not bad. Helps, helps keep the, the pests out, I suppose. Yeah, yeah Well, that sounds, I don't know if I can rate camping, but, you know, it sure beats driving a thousand miles, to to find a mountain, I guess. Yeah, that's right. I, I take it you haven't done a whole lot of camping in this area. No, we just moved down in, in June. Oh, I see. Well, you're still, uh, you're just trying to get over the culture shock still Yeah,
I'm still trying to find my way around. I, if I can get on Central from anywhere, I'm happy. Yeah. Yeah, well, really the ideal times to camp in this area are early spring, and, in, in the fall. Okay. It just gets so hot in the summer you can hardly, I mean, there's, there's a lot, Okay. What type of things do you feel would invade your privacy every day? Um, huh. Well, I don't like it when, uh, people listen to my phone conversations, like if they're outside my door while I'm talking in my room or when people like look through my things in my bedroom Yeah, that's right. That is really an invasion of privacy. Yeah. I, I find it very annoying when I've worked all day to come in and my phone to ring constantly, the solicitors, and the carpet cleaning companies and, Uh-huh. Does that happen in your part of the country? Yes. Uh-huh.
I, uh, I come home Definitely. and I am trying to get a few things done and I can't do anything but answer the telephone. Right Some evenings are worse than others, but I wish I could put a stop to it, but I don't know what to do to stop it. Right. Even, uh, we used to have a sign on our door that said no soliciting, and they would still come to our door and knock and Uh-huh. They would think it didn't mean them, I guess. I guess not, no. Everybody but me Yeah Oh, goodness. Are you do you live at home with your parents? Yes.
Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Yeah. So your privacy is invaded probably by other members of the family. Yeah, mostly. Yeah Now what can you do to stop that? Oh, I don't know. Well, I am used to it now, but sometimes it sort of gets, gets to me but there is not much I can really do. No. No. Just have to live with it, I guess. Yeah. Try to remember to respect their privacy, and maybe they will respect yours and, Well, I don't know
I always, Do you have brothers? Uh, no, yes, I do, but they don't live at home. Oh, okay, I was I had two younger brothers, and they nearly drove me crazy listening to telephone conversations and, Oh, I used to do that though because I was the youngest, I would pick up the phone and listen to theirs But I, I would get in the bathroom and lock the door so maybe they couldn't hear me, and then they would go get on the other extension Oh. and I could hear them, but I couldn't get them to hang up, you know. Yeah
But I stopped doing that a long time ago, and they still do it to me. Even it, in the office I, uh, find that people walk up and, and when you're on a conversation instead of walking off or just making themselves busy, they'll stand there and listen to what you say until you hang up. Oh, like, yeah, this lady does that to me at work when I'm taking an order or something, Uh-huh. and she'll just sit there and listen like I'm doing something wrong, and she just started and, she is nice but. to someone in the Okay. But, you know, it gets annoying when they stand right over you watching everything you do. Yeah. But, Let's see, I can't think of anything else I'd really consider an invasion of privacy other than the phone solicitors. No About the only thing that really bothers me I don't have that many people coming to my door. Right. Well, occasionally we'll have a person here or there, but not, not as many as the phone calls, you know,
Uh-huh. so. But, And I guess that's really the thing that really bugs me the most. I can't think, our kids in our neighborhood used to bother me, but they've all gotten grown up now Uh, and we live in a neighborhood where there is not any little kids to bother me, since mine are all grown up, Oh but. What else would be an annoyance? Well, I guess traffic could be an annoyance. Oh, yeah. Especially when you're in a hurry Do you have a lot of traffic in your area? Um, it can get busy, yeah. Usually in the week I'm . Uh-huh. Some days it's real, real bad here, and you would like to, feel like it's an invasion of privacy because you can't even ride down the road without people all the way around you, you know.
Yeah, uh-huh. But, Yeah, I've traveled quiet a bit, and I've been through Dallas, Texas. It's pretty busy It really is, and pretty noisy. Yeah It really is. Yeah. I live right on a main thoroughfare, so when I first moved here I probably did consider that an invasion of privacy because it, at first you'd hear a lot of noise, especially at night you know, when you go to bed. Uh-huh. Oh, yeah. And every time a, a fire truck or anything went down the road, I would wake up, but I guess I have gotten used to it because I don't even hear it anymore. Oh, yeah,
I suppose you do. And, uh, I just close it out, I guess, because I don't, I don't remember waking up in several years at night when I'd hear a fire truck go by, you know. Uh-huh. Yeah. I think they would probably have to pull into my drive before it bothered me Yeah. I am a real solid sleeper though so that probably wouldn't bother me. I'd sleep right through it They would have to chop down the door and get you out, I guess. Yeah. It takes a lot. Let's see. What else is an invasion? I had an old boyfriend who looked through my notes one time Oh. I was mad because those were mine , Well, did you have has name all over them? No It was a, a letter from a girlfriend of mine. I, I just, I was upset because those were mine,
and, you know, I thought he, That was yours. Yeah. Right. I thought he would respect me more than that, to look through my things and not trust me, Yeah. so that was upsetting. I was mad about that and my privacy there. Yeah. Uh, well, I guess social change takes in a, a big category, but, uh, I guess the, the one aspect of it that I took in, uh, consideration is more economical. Um. I, I know that the amount of, or how far your dollar goes probably more than anything has, has greatly changed. Yes, I agree. I know, they, they did a, it was on a talk show, they took, uh, the parents and then the, uh, the son, and they compared income at different points in time when the, when the father was, you know, was a little bit younger and more in his heyday Uh-huh.
and they, and they compared to the son's, that he was making now. And even though the son was probably more successful, you know, higher up in the, the management ladder uh, his, he was actually making less money when you when you go by costs of living. Right. Um. Right, uh-huh. And it's depending on where you live, though, too. Yeah. I know just, uh, just with me, ten years ago, I was comparing the, I think I, I was living better ten years ago than I am now, even though I'm making more money now, but my dollar went a lot farther. Yeah. That's true. Ten years ago I was eleven Oh. I remember though, like buying candy and stuff that was a lot less expensive than it is now. And gas, Yeah. and I used to hear stories from my Grandpa, and, you know, he could see a movie for like a nickel and things like that. Yeah, well, I, I know gas prices have definitely jumped, uh, from, uh,
I know I used to pay twenty-five cents a gallon and now it's over a buck. Yeah. I don't know what it's, uh, by you. Around here Minnesota, Wisconsin area it's, uh, it's dropping, but I think it's about a dollar fifteen on an average. Yeah, I'm from Wisconsin, yeah, . Okay. Well that's, uh, that's most of the people I talk to are Texas, so. Oh, yeah, I spoke to a person from Texas, too. Yeah. This is only my second phone call so I'm waiting for mine. Oh. I suppose this will be one of my, towards my last one pretty soon,
so they'll stop me Um. but, uh, I'm, uh, I'm pretty much out to the things to say. Oh, like, like social changes. Yeah. Um, um, and I don't think this would have anything to do with it, but like clothing and styles, lot of those changed. Okay, yeah, I, I, I don't think they, they consider, like I say, it's a broad category, it's just I'm not economical but uh, even attitudes on, on clothing and stuff, uh, I know. Yeah. Uh-huh, definitely. Towards each other. Yeah, I, I, I know a lot of the things that, that we wear, men wear nowadays were, would have been considered, uh, feminine, uh, many years ago, but. I know, it's been, it was hard for me at first,
Uh-huh, yeah. but now I kind of like, you know, a lot of the bright colors. Yeah. I mean, like I used to be more, uh, conservative and just your basic colors, but now I, I do like some of these, uh, brighter, fluorescent colors. Yeah, but they, styles come and go all the time, though. It's just ridiculous, fads in and out. And even, um, clothing from the sixties came back. Yeah. I see a lot of, um, girls wearing sixties clothes. Yeah. I, I, I guess the, the best thing I like to see from the sixties and seventies is, of course, is the mini skirt, of course One of the nice things, but, uh, yeah, I don't think that there's anything as original, it's, it's all based on, uh, one of the past styles, they just, um, make their, uh, circle and come back again. Yeah.
So if you hang onto your clothes long enough, uh they'll, they'll be back in style in a few years Yeah That's true, maybe some day I probably won't be alive to see it, but prices might go down lot more. Yeah. I don't know though, doesn't look good. Well, I think, thinking back, I think the only style I hope doesn't come back is bell bottoms. Yeah, I remember that, I do I guess when I look at pictures of myself in the bell bottoms I say God. Yeah, I didn't really care for them either But now I, I was going to say, my, uh, college is Northern State University in Aberdeen, South Dakota, and our head football coach, Dennis Muir used to be an assistant coach at B Y U. Oh, really. So I thought that was kind of an interesting coincidence.
Huh So you went to what college? Uh, Northern State University in Aberdeen, South Dakota. And what did you graduate in? I in what major or what year? Yeah, major International business. Oh, really. Yeah. And you? I'm going to B Y U, and I'm going into nursing Okay. so. Well, that sounds interesting. How long of a program is that? Forever Seems like, anyways.
It's about five years, but it's probably going to take me longer, because I didn't decide to major in that until, uh, about a year and a half after I was already in school, so. You know, I read a study once, and it said that, uh, like thirty-four percent of, uh, college students actually graduate in four years from a four year program. Oh, really. That sounds. It took me, it took me five years. Yeah So, you just, you get started and you change your mind, or you want to pick up a second major, if you're management, you, you, thought, I, I'll take that marketing, it's just only was three more classes you know, Yeah. and you, just doesn't happen that you get out in four years. Uh-huh. But. So what is your advice to picking a college. My advice is is, uh, look for, at the student to faculty ratio, you know,
if you're going to go to a college where student faculty ratio is three and four hundred to one, I don't think you're going to have as meaningful of a college experience as if you're down to the thirty to forty to one. Uh-huh. Is that, what was yours more like? Yeah Was there a, it was about twenty-six to one. Really. Yeah. Oh, that's great. Which is, you know, it, it's interesting, but it, it's what I thought was nice is you could there was always time to talk to professor, you know, and, and they knew you. Uh-huh. You weren't just in their class, you know, and so you could, you could go talk to them in their office almost at any time, and, or if you ran into them in the student union or whatever, you know, you could sit down, talk to them about a problem. They're always willing to help you out. So, but I, I's, I, I put that against, uh, my high school where we had, uh, a biology class of three hundred and fifty students
and. Wow, in high school? Yeah Oh. it was a biology lecture class Wow. and, you know, it, it just wasn't the same. You're sitting there, and you're taking notes and, you know, you got a computerized test scores, multiple choice, because there's no way they could correct a three hundred fifty point short answer test uh, you know, a three hundred fifty person short answer test. Uh-huh. And, it just wasn't the same. You, you'd run, you'd pass the teacher in high school and, even in high school you could say high to your teachers, unless you're in that biology class, and they just, they'd look at you like, do I know you? or should I know you? Uh-huh. Yeah, there's, it's, the classes here are pretty big,
so, it's hard to get individual help It's kind of, you're on your own Do you get, uh, a lot of tutoring, or. No Very little, I mean, well, like my, for example, I have, I'm in a chemistry class right now Uh-huh. and there's tons of students in it, and there's one T A for the whole class. And he only has certain office hours, and so there's only certain times you can talk to him, and. And you could get there and his office hours could, I mean he could have like a nine to eleven in the morning office hours and have forty-two people waiting to talk to him, and you still didn't get to talk to him anyway. Right, yeah. Well, what would be your advice to a parent of a child thinking of attending college?
Oh, man. I think your advice is good. Um let's see. My advice would be to pick a major before you get into college That's excellent advice. because I, I didn't, and I took tons of classes that I didn't need to, and, um, I don't know, I just feel like I'm, it's, it's going to take me a lot longer than, and not that's always bad, but it's, I don't know, it's frustrating, I guess. Well, it, it, it does get it. You know, you get to the point where it's, I'm never going to get done. Right. You know, I, I mean, I was taking summer classes and let me get out of here. Yep. But, uh, no, that's good advice. Even if you don't have your major decided on, have an idea what you think you might want, you know,
so you don't want management, but you think you want business, Yes. I haven't, uh, talked to anybody outside the Metroplex, so I didn't even think of saying Arlington, Texas. This is a real first Yes. Are you at work? Yes, I am. I, I, I've been trying to get people at five thirty and six thirty in the evening and I thought, well, I'm not having any luck, I'll try the middle of the afternoon. Well, I'm, I'm happy we got through. I am, too. Well, do you have any, uh, opinion on the subject? Well, I'm, I'm especially interested with what, what's happening in the Soviet Union, uh, the, the move to, uh the, the, the, Ukraine's vote to, uh, basically to secede and set itself up independently uh, is quite a remarkable, counts, Democracy. Oh.
is that, is that reported in the Texas papers? Oh, sure, we, uh, we hear a little of the news Uh, yeah, I have heard about that the last couple of days. How, how big is the Ukraine, the area, do you know? Uh, as an area, it's not, Or a population or anything, I'm really uninformed. I, I'm afraid I don't have the statistics in front of me. Uh-huh. It's a, it's not a tiny area. Uh, if I was looking at a U S map, I would say it was sort of reminds me of, of a, uh, it's not as big as California proportionately. Uh-huh, uh-huh. But, but, but it's, it's more significant, in the sense of, it's a great agricultural region. Oh, I see, oh, I, I didn't really know that,
I know a lot of their, oh, their countries that they had overtaken, or wanted to be independent or several of them, right, Yeah. And, uh, what about Astonia, are they, They're completely out now. Right, I thought they were. Yes, the three, the three Baltic, uh, republics got out as quickly as they could. But, but, the, the Ukraine is especially significant because it, of the agriculture? Right, it's, it's very important for the economics of the whole, of the Soviet Union. Uh, so there were probably really fight to keep it in if they could. Right, uh, except they can't fight No, they don't, It's done democratically, uh, And Bush has already given his opinion on it, right? Yes.
Didn't I read that? Yes. So, now, uh, not that they may, that may matter, I don't know, anymore. I, uh, fear for the Russians from what I read, you know, I wonder how they're going to get through the winter. Food wise or any wise, Uh, sounds to me like they'll start rioting soon, or not that that would do any good, but I guess people do that when they're desperate. That, that's true, uh, hasn't happened here for a while, but it, uh, Well, that's true, since the Depression, I guess when the veterans went to Washington Uh-huh. and well, you know, the war riots, of course. Let's just hope we don't get to that point Things are not so good in Texas job wise. No, I've, I've heard they're, I hear you have some problems.
Well, we do. We have lots and lots of, uh, layoffs here. Lot of companies folding, lot of layoffs and it's pretty scary. Do, do you, do you blame the, the government in Washington for this? Well, I don't understand economics that well. I don't know, I, I know that we have a terrible situation with foreign trade and that other countries put a lot of restrictions that we don't Yeah. and so I assume that that has some effect. Or a great effect. Yeah. Uh-huh. And I do, uh, I mean, they said during the way, Reagan-Bush years, the rich got richer, the poor got poorer, the statistics prove that so, uh, I, I guess, So then, you think it's, it's, you think it's Reagan and Bush have done this or is it just coincidence it was during this period? Well, I really don't know. I think maybe they, uh, maybe they contributed to it. Maybe they should pay more attention to these trade, or, you know, to the more equalization of the trade.
Uh-huh. Of course, if somebody in, in China can make something for ten cents and we have to make it for ten dollars because we have unions, well, I don't know what's going to happen then. Oh, the Chinese use slave labor, too. Right. That's, that's one of the ways they get away with it. And child labor. Yeah. Right. Well, I don't know. What do you think has caused our horrible situation? Uh, I don't think there's any one simple answer to the whole thing. One thing. I mean it's, that's very complicated. Right, well, they say, too, that having a democratic congress and republican President is not good. I mean, I've read that is a theory. So which one are we going to throw out? Well, I hate to say it, but, I, I'm tending to go straight back into my original democratic party. Uh-huh.
Uh, Texas, Texas used to be a democratic state, didn't it? Oh, I know, it used to, right. Well, you don't want too many democrats anymore and for a while I kind of deserted the party, but now it's looking better to me. I like your governor. Oh, do you? Oh, I'm glad to hear that. She's an impressive woman. Well, I think so, too. I, I just, admire her a lot. Yeah. And, uh, I I really hope she does well. But she's, uh, you know, probably more popular out of the state than she is here, although she did manage to win. Right But look who she was running against, you know Well, yeah,
anybody could beat Claytie in Texas. He shot himself in the foot so many times How did you get on this T I thing? Oh, I, I know some of the people. Okay, go ahead. Well, I, I, uh, we're going to compare notes. Uh, Yeah. I, uh, I often desire to exercise, often believe I should and rarely do. Don't do it Well, I tell you, I, I firmly believe in exercising. I think it's a, I do it every day on a regular basis. I, What, what, what sort of, of regiment do you have? Well, I just got back from biking twelve and a half miles, but this time of year, you can't get much biking in. Uh, but every morning I use this President's, uh, council of physical fitness and it really is, uh, uh, it's worth doing, and you can do it anywhere.
I, I travel quite a bit in my in my business, Yes. and you can do it, you know, wherever you're at and if you do it, I, I do it every morning after, uh, usually after breakfast before I take a shower and get, you know, dressed going you know, to go to work. Yes. Uh-huh. And, uh, now what I do, I mean, I've done this for, you know, like fifteen years, so you don't start at this kind of regiment, you know. Yes. I, so, what I'm telling you isn't something you go out and do and, and you'll hurt yourself Uh, every, every, uh, it takes me about fifteen minutes to do this now because I do it all the time, but I, uh, I do twenty-five, uh, uh, where you have your arms above your head and and your body twisters touch right, you know, left and right toe Uh-huh. and I do, uh, ten, uh, right and left, uh, trunk twisters. Uh-huh.
And I do, uh, about sixty, uh, bicycle, type, uh, leg thrust type things. Uh-huh. And I do, uh, twenty, uh, leg lifters on each side. You know when you're laying on the floor. Yes. Yes. Right. And then I do fifty push-ups and do a hundred sit ups and, uh, then I do about, uh, My goodness, you do all of this in fifteen minutes? Oh, yeah, oh, yeah. And then, uh, thirty, uh, now if you did football, like the old grass drills where you're on your stomach and you Uh-huh. you know, prone type things, where you're kind of rocking on your stomach type thing, and that takes about, really about, maybe about thirteen minutes, uh in the morning. Yeah. Now what, what keeps you doing that. I mean, I, I sometimes start little, much less, much more modest efforts,
but I give up, I just find them boring. Hard to find the time for it on a given day Well, uh, and, Years ago I used to, uh, referee football Yes. and, uh, to stay in condition, I did that, uh, just as a normal basis, Yes. and, uh, uh, I tell you just by doing it, uh, well, example, this summer I, I was about fifteen pounds heavier than I wanted to be so I, I increased, I do three hundred sit ups a day now, but not at that, in the morning, I do a hundred then and then I do about a hundred before supper and about a hundred before I go to bed. Uh-huh. I lost fifteen pounds just by doing that because you tighten your stomach muscles Yes. and, you know, you can eat anything you want, drink anything you want, but you don't, you know,
within reason, you know, you can lose weight or maintain your weight and your physical being Uh-huh. Yep. and, uh, I just, you know, you're ready to go at a, I, I, I think it's really important. Well, I, I, whenever I do it, I feel good. I mean good that I have done, good because it's, it seems right and good because it has good effects. Good. But, but it's this maintaining a, a regular habit that I just can't seem to do. Well, that's why Chuck, I think, uh, if you did it on a daily basis and you didn't need elaborate things, you know, where you can make excuses like, Yeah. well, I, I like biking and during the summer, I'll do, you know, at least seventy-five miles a week and when I really was doing it maybe a hundred and fifty, Uh-huh. but you can't, you know, Uh-huh. there's excuses, weather Yep. or you don't have time or something like that. But if you do some basic exercises and you say every morning, just like brushing your teeth you're going to spend fifteen minutes or a half hour. And you get up a half hour earlier
Uh-huh. Uh-huh. and once you start getting into that, one, you just feel good Yes. and you look a whole lot better. Yes. Do you, do you does your wife participate in any of this or, Unfortunately not, and there's no way I can get her to. Uh-huh. It's a, like it's something you either just really want to do it or you can't talk anyone into it. If you don't like to exercise, you know, it isn't going to happen. Yes, yes. I, I sure wish she would. She's, you know, unfortunately overweight, and, but she's a wonderful woman and you know, no sense getting in arguments with anybody, about it.
Uh-huh. Yeah, yeah. Well I, I, uh, I keep saying if somebody else would do it with me, I, that would be, little bit of peer pressure would help considerably. Well, But you seemed to have solved that problem without any, any external help. No problem at all. And, uh, if you get one of these mats. You know, go to a store, they normally have these exercise, things, these A B C of physical fitness on them. Yeah. One of my kids got me one of those for Christmas one year and, uh, What, what, what, what's on, what's this mat, I mean, It, it, it's just an exercise mat that rolls up so you can put it up, you know, just in the corner. Is it like the sort of thing you take on a camping trip and sleep on it. Well, yeah, you can do that. I mean, it's that, it's that kind of like half inch of foam or something. But, but it doesn't, Yeah,
it's a foam thing, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and it's, it's just about six feet long, rolls up Yeah. and I don't take it on trips with me. I, you could, but, uh, I don't mind, uh, you know, if I do like sit ups, I'll throw a, a towel down or something. You know, Yeah. so you don't have the abrasive, Okay, what do you think about, uh, the self insurance business? Well, I watched something on T V a couple of months ago by, uh, General, ex, uh, Surgeon General Koop. Uh-huh. And he talked about Canada's system and it appears to work fine for the normal colds and things like that, but the expensive stuff, heart, uh, operations and things, they have a managed scarcity. And they said that in Canada, there were as many heart, uh, trauma centers as there is in San Francisco.
So in one city of, in America, there's as many, uh, hospitals that are equipped to do uh, heart operations as in the entire area of Canada, and that's kind of spooky. Well, I, uh, I understand what you're saying, and there's probably some truth to that. I think that, uh, generally I don't welcome added government responsibilities. However, when a, anybody can't police their own profession, it eventually leads to that, and I think the costs and the, uh, the way the medical profession has, every year I, being in my own business, uh, in the last six years, every year there's been at least minimum twenty-five percent increase in health insurance costs, and I think eventually the number of people that can afford health insurance, as, as it is now getting squeezed and squeezed tighter. Uh-huh. Uh, I think they're asking for it. I, I think the medical profession is just, just pushing until there's no option but the government take it over and, uh, Do you think that it's just, uh, medical guys? What about, you know, you know how expensive new equipment and technology is. That's where I think most of the cost is coming. Well, I, I think a lot of it is, uh, I, I don't disagree totally with that, but, uh, my wife this last summer, uh, when we were on vacation tore up her knee,
and, uh, uh, it was ligaments, uh, in her knee, as it turned out, uh, Uh-huh. she came back that, uh, we were out at Cape Hatteras when this happened and, uh, she got home, and the leading orthopedic man, who has handled football people for years and is as good as they come, I mean, he knows knee problems okay, Uh-huh. I mean if anyone does, this guy knows it. Well, she goes in, he says, well, I think this is what it is, but, uh, you better go to the hospital and have one of these M R I things. A thousand dollars for this, uh, oh, magnetic, uh, resonance imaging type thing. And my wife said, well, do I need that? And he says, well, uh, you know, it, it'll help me diagnose this. I mean, uh, you know, I, I suggest you go have this thing. Insurance won't pick this up unless you're in the hospital. Now, a, thousand, uh, uh, dollars for thirty-five minutes. Oh, great. I mean, doctors routinely send people in for anything.
Now, for years they didn't have this and they solved these problems, and, you know, Yeah . I said to her, well, look, you know, if you feel you got to go, go, but I, I think a thousand dollars, these guys, I don't know what it is, but there's, no doubt they get kickbacks to fill these machines up night and day. Uh-huh . And even if they cost a hundred, two hundred, five hundred thousand dollars, at, uh, roughly a thousand dollars every half hour, uh, that's ridiculous. I, I don't care what anyone says. You know, the costs are not, it's a picture. It shouldn't cost more than thirty-five bucks for something like that, you know, reasonableness. But they aren't reasonable. Fifty, a hundred dollars. They don't have to pay them back in three months time. No. Yeah,
I'll have to agree, with you there, You know . but there's another problem, and that's the, how litigious our society is. If the doctor makes a mistake, he can be sure that he's going to be hauled into court. Well, I think that should be, that, that's a, another problem, but that's part of our legalese problem. And that, the government eventually will address too just, you know, because it's out of control. I, I agree with you. You know, uh, I was on a jury or I, I didn't make the jury, but there was a, deal where a doctor was going to be sued for malpractice on the death on an infant. Uh-huh. Like it was three days after it was born, and he was the one that delivered it. And they got four attorneys, one guy out of Houston, he introduced himself as snake so-and-so, and he says, well, anyone have trouble awarding five million dollars, and I says, yeah, I got problems with
I mean, you know, five million bucks isn't going to bring this kid back, you know, I mean, as sorrowful as it is. Uh, you know, if the doctor is wrong, you know, he should be pulled from his license, but five million dollars and away he goes because insurance pays for it, you know, it, it doesn't make logical sense to me, but, uh, No, it doesn't. Uh, that's, You think about AIDS research? Well, AIDS is a nasty, terrible disease, and you die from it. So I think that, uh, they need to look into it and it's kind of like cancer. I don't, you know, how many years have we tried to find a cure for cancer. Uh-huh. I think it'll probably be as difficult. Uh, how about yourself. Um, well, I'm certainly in favor of AIDS research, and I think probably the government could spend a bit more money on it than it does.
I think that because, besides the fact that it's a deadly disease, that it's a contagious disease, so that it's, um, although it is not killing that many people now, it still has the opportunity to get out of control and become a huge problem. Yeah, they say a million people are infected with the H I V virus, Uh-huh. and, uh, yeah, I think, That's in the world, or in America? You, Uh, in the country, America. Oh, really? Yeah Um, that's, and they have millions. Whose figure is that? I don't know. I've just heard it on the radio. Okay. Sometimes you hear things that, on the radio that, you know, could be true or couldn't be.
Uh-huh. Uh, do you feel like this is, I, I guess they're spending a billion or so a year on this AIDS research. Uh-huh. Do you think they should spend more? Uh, I, I think they should, actually, although perhaps not a, an incredible amount more than what they're doing, and I don't necessarily think that they should, uh, fund AIDS research and, in the process, neglect cancer research or whatever. I think that it would be a good thing for the government to increase funding for medical research in general. What do you think, Doug, of Mister Johnson? Um well, I, well, I am sorry that he has the virus. Magic? I, um, I don't know, I don't, I think it's very strange that the media hasn't, um, questioned him more strongly to, about gay sex or intravenous drugs or anything like that, as they probably would for a lot of other people. Do you think he's the hero that he's being called by a bunch of other, a bunch of the media? Um, well, not, not really, though I mean, I think he's probably doing the right thing for a man in his position, but I don't think it's anything exceptional that he's doing. It's what many people have done already, who were just less famous. You know, I took advantage of the opportunity when, you know, he came out. I talked to my kids about it, you know Uh-huh.
it's something that I hadn't, hadn't done before. Uh-huh. Uh. Well, that's good. I'm glad that Mister Johnson's changed his tune on, uh, safe sex to abstinence, or I was glad he did that, for young kids, because a lot of kids would have ended up dying because of what he was promoting. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh, let's see. What are some of the other questions. Uh, you don't, uh, let's see. I don't have any friends that have the disease. I guess you might, might not. Um, yeah, I do. My cousin, does, for instance. Is it pretty nasty? And, um, Yeah,
yeah it is. He's actually, um, he had AIDS related complex for a while, and he is now in full-blown AIDS, really not doing very well, and has a brain tumor or that sort of thing. Yeah, it sounds awful. Yeah, it's, it's a very nasty thing. Is it just that the immune system ceases to function properly and, Um, yeah, that's, that's basically it, that, um, the immune system can at first slow down, and the white blood cell count goes down, which is, that's AIDS Related Complex, but then when things get completely out of control and it basically hits bottom, that's AIDS And, and in that case, you know, people are prone to getting any kind of, you know, weird cancer that only animals got before Oh, really. and,
yeah, that sort of thing, Okay well, There we are. All right. Um, um, well, uh, tell me about the car that you've got. Well, I have a Honda, um, hatchback, nineteen eighty-four. Uh-huh. And I had a hatchback, a nineteen seventy-eight version before this one. Uh-huh. And, uh, I'll be honest with you. I have never found any automobile that has been more conscientiously constructed and, and, uh, put together and it, it does its job. All I have to do on my Honda is change the oil and the filter every thirty-five hundred miles, and I, I did have to put two, two new front tires on at fifty thousand miles, but that car just purrs like the day it was built. I get forty-two miles per gallon on the highway and uh, twenty-eight to thirty driving around in town. It's a five speed straight stick machine. Uh-huh.
And, I can carry more in that, uh, that trunk area in my little Honda than I can in the big cars, and I have a large, um, Pontiac, and I have a sixty-nine Cougar, which really is, I'm saving because it's, it's old, but it's in beautiful shape. Uh-huh. But I can carry as much in my Honda or more than I can in, in those other bigger cars. Well, that's very interesting. I've had, I've had exactly the same experience with the one that I've got. It's a, and surprisingly it's also an eighty-four Oh, oh. and, uh, L X? Yeah, I'm still here. Um, I'm sorry what? It was an L X? Yes, it's an L X, it's not a hatchback,
but it's, um, it's, uh, Uh-huh, yours is a four door. Four door, yeah Uh-huh. and very, very comfortable car. Big roomy trunk Yeah. uh, and, uh, and very happy with it, and I must admit it's, you know, if, if, if, uh, my only consideration were, were, you know, buying another car just to tool around town in and make, you know, brief trips and things like that, I would very, very seriously consider buying one. Uh, I think they're extraordinarily reliable cars. Yes, they are. Um, my, my real concern with, uh, uh, why I'm not sure I want to buy a Honda, is because I have to make a kind of a, a steady, um, trip down the road about once a month, because I'm divorced and I have a daughter that lives down in North Carolina Um, uh-huh.
and, uh, I drive, down Interstate Ninety-five, and it's just an absolutely wild highway. Ninety-five is wild in any car. There's no doubt about that Yeah and, because I, I, I run over to Crystal City, or used to, I'm retiring the end of this month Uh-huh. but I'm very much aware of the crazy driving that goes on over there. And, you, well, you've got it, and, uh, so having precious cargo in the car with me as you can well imagine, it's very hard for me to imagine that, that, uh, a Honda's going to be as safe a car as, as the one that I've got my eye on, which is a Volvo. Uh-huh, uh-huh. In, in fact, quite frankly I've owned a Volvo in the past, and uh, I've, I've, Uh-huh. they're expensive cars to keep up when they need service, but, uh, I've found that I've had a lot of luck with them. Uh, course I'm a mechanically inclined kind of person,
and I always wind up getting under the hood and finding out all the things that, you know, need to be taken care of, and so forth. And I guess that's one thing that, that recommends the Honda to a lot of people, is is there's just very little that you have to do under the hood, and, uh, Yes, it just, just sits there and purrs, and you, all you got to do is the main major thing of changing that oil and that filter. I get six hundred miles on a tank of gas. Oh, I know. It's really amazing. Yeah. It's, uh, Beautiful, beautiful machine. Absolutely, incredible So, um, yeah, anyway, I've been looking at the prices of these cars and, and so forth, and I think that it's, it's very surprising some of these very expensive Volvos can be gotten for a lot less money than you would think if you're willing to buy ones that are about, the vintage of the cars that you and I currently own Is that right, uh-huh. Uh-huh.
and, um, Well, a brand new Volvo costs, what, thirty thousand dollars? Well, certainly some of the top end ones. You can still get, get, uh, even the, the low end wagons, um, for less than twenty thousand dollars Uh-huh. and, uh, we get, you know, in the Washington area, of course, being as affluent as it is, there are lots and lots of Volvo dealerships down here Um, uh-huh. so there're lots and lots of them available in the paper at any, any week, and I sort of, you know, scan the paper and look at them, and so forth and so, um, anyway, and that's, that's the other thing is that I've, I've never really been too terribly much of a new car person. Yeah. I think I've bought one or two new cars in my life, and I've tended to, um, to, uh, buy cars that are, you know, two or three, and sometimes even four and five or six years old. This Honda that I have I bought used, and, in fact, it had an extraordinarily low amount of mileage on it. I've just rolled seventy thousand miles, and it's a seventy-four, I mean, an eighty-four. So Well, my, my eighty-four just has seventy-seven on it
Yeah. and I've made many trips to Washington and down to Virginia Beach, Virginia, where my mother lives, and things like that, and I drive it, about the weather Oh, yes, very appropriate, I guess. Uh, you ready for this? Yeah. Okay, John, just a moment. Well, guess what, we get to talk about the weather The weather is, uh, this time of year has actually been kind of unusual. I haven't expected it to be colder until, you know like we've gotten the last couple of days. Uh-huh. I don't know. I fly for a living, and I've, uh, the weather's been terribly unusual every where I've been.
Oh, you do Yeah. so you, you, you probably go everywhere and have all sorts of weather. Yeah. I imagine it's kind of an experience also trying to land and take off in the weather. Well, it was around here last night, I'll tell you that Well, actually I'm, I'm, I've heard on the news that we, uh, will be setting a record here in the State of Texas for the, uh, large amounts of rain and moisture we've had this year, that it's going to break all kind of records that were set, set, set back since nineteen thirty-two. No kidding. So, yeah Um. If it keeps on raining like this, and I understand it's supposed to rain until Saturday night. Saturday or Sunday they were saying, yeah. Oh, yes. Yeah, I know the systems have been real strong out. I went through, uh, Phoenix on, twice on, uh, Wednesday morning Uh-huh.
and, uh, approaches to low minimum both, both times Wow. and Phoenix never gets that kind of weather so, And so are you an airline pilot? Yes, I am Oh, great. for Southwest, yeah. For Southwest, fantastic. I have a brother, I have a brother that's a pilot, also, with American. Oh, is that right? Yeah. So I imagine you, uh, oh, with all this kind of weather it, uh, makes it kind of dangerous for you. Well, now, I wouldn't call it danger. This is, uh, this really isn't bad stuff to fly around in. This is much better than dealing with the thunderstorms in the Springtime. Oh, I guess so,
yeah. Yeah, the, the air systems are reasonably calm. We don't have, uh, the turbulence have a, uh, little bit of chop, Uh-huh. but it's not like it is in the spring time. Oh, yes. Well, we moved actually down here from another location, and it's spectacular the, the thunderstorms and rain storms you get in the spring time, the torrents of rain. Spectacular is the right word for them. Pardon me? Spectacular is a good word for them I've never seen a thunder show like I've seen down here before in Texas. It's amazing. Lights up the whole sky and even on a, on a, actually I've, I've seen it where there's not a cloud in the sky, it's a cloudless night, and the rain isn't falling, but you can see the thunder, and, excuse me, see the lightening going horizontally across the sky and back and forth, and what a light show. Oh, yeah,
yeah. Yeah It's, it's fabulous. cloud to cloud it can be real, really sensational here. Yeah, that's true. Where are you from originally? I'm from, uh, northern Utah, and that's a very arid climate, from, uh, Salt Lake City area Uh-huh. and there's always a lot of snow. In fact, where I grew up we were about an hour's drive from seven to, uh, twelve different major ski resorts, and so there was an awful lot of snow, Oh. and because it was an arid climate, the snow was always a crisp, powder, light snow which made it fantastic for skiing and, and sleigh riding and everything else. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. So, we had a great time. Were you near, near the Park Cities area. Um, yeah,
in, uh in Snowbird and Solitude and and Brighton and yes, all those areas. Beautiful area. Uh-huh. So I imagine, have you skied before? Well, we've skied, I have not skied that area. Uh-huh. I've driven through it several times. Uh, I skied, we skied California a bunch when we lived out there, and and, uh, um, and, of course, grew, we grew up in Minnesota, Uh-huh. and we do some skiing there lot of cross country skiing there. Oh, yeah, Yeah, great. Well, do you think this, the, the weather is typical for this time of the year? Well, not really, I, you know, Minnesota's gotten just hammered with snow, um, the, um, uh,
we've gotten a fair amount of rain for this time of year already I think Yes. Yeah. and, uh, I've been surprised that we haven't seen more of the temperatures that we've got today, you know, that moved in last night. Yeah, it's been, it's been cold. There was a time, though, in the, uh, middle part of November that got really cool, really, really unseasonably cool Yes. Yes, it did. and then it warmed right back up, and I thought, great Yeah. and that's, that's a fun yeah, my wife was just listening here and she said, yeah, it froze in fact. Yeah, it was, it was real cold.
Yeah, but that was very unseasonable for us down here. And, uh, but, uh, I've really enjoyed the weather down here, too, because, uh, two years ago we were the day after Christmas able to go out in shorts and play tennis in the nice sunny weather, and it's not as severe, I should say as the weather that I've experienced up in northern Utah. Yeah. Oh, yeah, that's, that's real true. Same with us from Minnesota. It's, it's, uh, in fact, I've, I've played golf on, on, uh, New Year's Day one year. Down here? Yeah, yeah. Not in Minnesota No no, no no. I have a brother-in-law that lives in Minnesota
and they say, boy, six months out of the year it's bitter cold, and and the wind and the blowing snow and everything. Oh, it is, it is. Well, and they've had, uh, you know, usually in Minnesota they get their snow in January and February, Uh-huh. and they're up over sixty-five or Okay, I guess tonight's subject is, uh, woodworking. What kind of woodworking do you do? Do you, uh, Well, kind of, mainly the woodworking I've done lately is, uh, made like, uh, for example a little nativity scene. Uh, not the, uh, the whole figurines and so forth, but mainly the stable, put some shelves in and, and some odd stuff around the house Uh-huh. and so I, I enjoy doing a little bit of woodworking and I do it out of hobby more than, uh, you know, something I have to do. How about yourself? Uh, well, I like to think of it as a hobby, but I, I guess also, partly out of necessity. Just repairing things around the house. Uh, a few years ago, uh, we needed, uh, they needed some book shelves and I kind of drew up some simple plans to make some book shelves and, uh, it actually worked pretty well
and over the years I've, I've refined those plans. I got myself a router and I'm, I'm very good at making book shelves. Uh-huh. It's, it's also a way of relieving stress. My wife kind of laughs, at me that anytime I get stressed out I just go out in the garage and we've got more book shelves. Well, I'll have to come and see them That sounds like a good idea. I, you know, and that's, that is right, it is out of necessity because lot of the things that, uh, well, we can't be able to afford, but also I, I sometimes think that, uh, I enjoy doing that and I like to get out and, and, uh, to work with my hands and, uh, sounds like you got some real nice tools, too. Do you think you would be able to do some more if you had more tools and different tools? Uh, well, yeah, I mean, little by little, I, I started out with just basic hand tools and kind of added on to things. Uh-huh. Uh, gotten a, a good belt sander
and, and, the router, uh, helps a lot because you can make better joints with a router. Uh-huh. The latest project that I've been working on and this has been kind of sitting here for a few months is a, a cabinet to, to put a T V in. Oh, a entertainment type center? Right. Oh. And it, that's works well because you can design it to, to suit whatever equipment you have so I designed a space just the right size for the T V and then the, the V C R and shelves on the side for my stereo equipment. Right. Right, right. And, uh, that's worked pretty well. Uh, with, uh, with the router you can make nice, uh, I guess dado joints is what it's called. Right, or yes, I, yeah, I'm aware of that. Uh, And it's, uh,
And also with a router, you can, uh, make ornamental facings, too better than a just straight wood edge. And, Uh, And, uh, casings and so forth that are, that are real nice, That's right. That's right. So, so that's, that's good. That's good. But what I need next is a good table saw. Yeah And I, I debate whether it's better to get a, uh, just a straight table saw or to get one of these, uh, rotary arm saws. Oh. Radial arm saw is, I guess, what they're called. Uh-huh. Uh, it seems to me the radial arm saw is, is better, well, it, it takes up less room. Yeah. I mean, you, you set the wood down and you move the saw. Yeah. Whereas if you're ripping wood, you're probably better off with a, a table saw. Well and with a radial arm saw, if you do have a, a big piece of wood that you need to rip, like you say, or cut, you wouldn't be able to do that.
Uh, but, uh, yeah, a table saw does take a lot of time, excuse me a lot of space and is a pretty big investment. Yeah. And, Uh, that, that's partly my problem now. I don't have room for this. I, uh, I, where, uh, where we lived before up north, uh basements were, were common Uh-huh. and, I used to put all the stuff in my basement, but not so here in Texas. Uh-huh. No, they don't have basements. Well, I'm from up north also and, and, uh, no there's no basements down here and it's kind of, uh, hard to get, uh, shop space unless you have a dedicated shop or a dedicated room for that. Yeah. Yeah,
lot of the equipment, too, that I've, I've used in the past, uh, I you know, I've used in school and, uh, I would, I don't know, I'd, I'd kind of like to, to look at equipment like a lathe or like you say, a table saw and some of those things that would make, uh, some pretty nice, uh, pieces of, uh, well, wood, for, for different things for tables, for, for, uh, chairs, for, you know, decks and so forth so, I don't know, Uh-huh. I, I just enjoy woodworking and I think the, the main thing is, like you say, it's a, it's a good out. It's an opportunity to get out and relieve some of the pressure that you feel day to day and it's a great stress, stress reliever. Have you ever used a lathe? Yes, I have, in school I have and I've made, uh, uh, different things, uh, uh, tables for chairs and I've made, uh, bowls, and, uh, and, uh, Did you hear our topic? It's in regards to discussing homes. Homes, yes, sir,
uh-huh. What are, are you settled in a place? Yeah, I'm settled in a place. I've been in it for twelve years, since nineteen, uh, actually thirteen years, since nineteen seventy-eight and it's in Richardson, Texas, which is north Texas or north Dallas. Right Uh-huh. And we've lived in two houses in Richardson. We moved here in seventy-four and, uh, changed locations in seventy-eight. Okay. How about yourself? Well, we, uh, left here in seventy-six. Uh, we were here for a few years, then we, uh, have come back just this summer. Right now we're looking for housing, uh, somewhere down in the Duncanville and Cedar Hill area. Are you familiar with that? Yeah, it's a nice area. Yeah,
it is. The kids are in school here in Duncanville. We're in a temporary place right now and, uh, so they've enjoyed the school, so we're kind of trying to stay here but, Are you finding it tough trying to find what you want or, Well, what, the problem we got is that we've got five children Oh, boy. and so, uh, we really want four or five bedroom house and, uh, you know, everybody says, you know, how many houses are on the market and all that kind of thing right. so we, uh, we look at the paper, we look at our, talk to our realtor and you can cut, you know, the listings, uh, in about a third when you go from three to four bedrooms you know, or five. Sure. Are you looking or you settled, I mean,
No, we're settled and, uh we're, uh, having, I'm probably older than you, I'm fifty-two, but anyway, I, my youngest is getting married this year graduating college, Oh, great. so I can board up their rooms, and look forward to retirement maybe. That empty nest syndrome is going to set in, I guess. Oh, gosh, so, we're looking forward to retiring in about three years and maybe relocating to Florida or somewhere. Closer, closer to our families. Great. Okay. Okay, you, are you from Florida originally? No, from West Virginia but everyone's, uh, my wife's parents are from the New York, New Jersey area Yeah
so, but everyone seems, uh, has seem to relocated down that area. Oh, yeah. Seems like a nice place to go Yeah, yeah. We've got five and the oldest is, uh, ninth grade and the youngest is second grade and I think they're going to be, uh, with us forever. I don't know if that's true, but it's sure, you know, we're not anywhere near looking to, uh, uh, cut down in size. We're, we're trying to find, Oh, I understand. You need very minimum four and probably five. Oh, yeah. In fact, six would be real good. Right. My wife and I can share a bedroom It's tough to find a five and six room, bedroom house, isn't it? Either,
Oh, I don't think it's possible unless you, you know, multimillionaire, something like that. Oh, I know. Uh, Seems like you get in that category, you're in the three hundred thousand dollar homes or whatever and it's that's an awful lot, you know Oh, yeah. Yeah, it is, yeah. Uh, we're having, actually, if we find something for, uh, I'd say less than a hundred and twenty thousand, we'll be doing all right, you know. Right. That's, uh, but I think the thing's out there, it's just a matter of, uh you know, looking you know finding the right place, uh, Just, Matter of looking, right. Lot of people will buy, in your situation will buy a four bedroom house and convert maybe the garage or something or the, or do something. I had a young lady used to work for me at my office from the high school and she had, uh, there were seven kids in her family.
Wow. And they converted the dining room and, did this and that, but they always seemed to get along fine, you know. Oh, yeah, yeah. I think once we get into a place, it will be just fine, but you know, it's until then, it's, uh, oh, a little stressful, you know, just looking all the time and that sort of thing. Oh, sure. Oh, I know and it's, there's nothing harder than that. I always just sort of a, assign my wife that chore, then I would let her narrow it down to three or four, then I'd go look because women seem to like to look a lot more than men do. Oh, yeah. Maybe that's the case. At least she's got more opinions, you know, there's, uh, seems like there's more constraints more things that she thinks about. You know, openness, uh, the size of the kitchen and all this kind of stuff that I would probably gloss over and, maybe even ignore, you know. Yes. Why, certainly. I understand that.
So. What kind of business are you in? I'm in the, uh, sporting goods business. I'm a manufacturer's rep. I represent fourteen different hunting and shooting type companies. Oh, yeah, great. What, who are you with? Uh, we're with an organization called, uh, Wycliff Bible Translators. Uh-huh. It's a, a missions organization and, uh, doing, uh, translation, linguistics, that sort of thing. Well, great. Uh, it's got an office down here in, uh, in, near Duncanville and we just moved down to be on staff down here so. How, how was the, uh, you say you lived in the Denver area before? Right. How did that compare with this area as far as housing prices? Uh, we were, uh, really surprised to find that they're higher here. Uh, No kidding.
When we moved from Louisiana to Denver, it was astounding, you know, to find that prices were, oh, I guess almost two or three times as high as we'd expected. And then, uh, to come down here, we thought things would be lower, and they're not. I guess, uh, really, prices for housing are just, Okay, should begin. *listen; could probably code if we could tell if it said "we" or "you" Okay. All right. Uh, I can begin this, um, basically I work for Honeywell in Minneapolis Uh-huh. and the, the benefit program we have here is really quite good. I'm, I'm pretty pleased with it. They cover, uh, just about everything, vision, dental, medical Uh-huh. uh, you name it, and for me this is the first job I've had where they've covered that much, so I'm pretty satisfied myself. Uh-huh. Um, what's your situation?
I work for the University of New Hampshire, and uh, our benefits package isn't, uh, isn't quite as good in some ways. Uh, you know, Oh. overall I'm satisfied with it. We don't have the vision care, we do have the health care and the, uh, and the or the dental. Uh-huh. Uh. Are you a professor there? No, I work in, I'm a, on the professional administrative and technical staff, and I, effectively I run the telephone switch at, uh, at the University of New Hampshire. Oh, I see, okay. Uh, so the, uh, the benefits, uh, probably the main thing I like about the benefits is the, uh, the, uh, very generous vacation time and sick time. Oh, no doubt We get fifteen days a year sick time, and, uh, we get twenty-four days a year, right from the day one when you start work, you get twenty-four days a year, uh, time off. Right.
Well, that's good. Yeah. Yeah, that's one of the things I guess I would change about Honeywell, is, uh, I used to work with the Army Research Institute, and being a, uh, a government organization you got quite a few holidays off. Right. But here you don't get that. You maybe get two or three a year. Uh-huh. So it's really, unless you, unless you have some vacation time or some, some sick leave or whatever, um, you kind of have to finagle your way around to get that time. Uh-huh. So, that's, that's kind of a drawback I think. But, uh. I don't know. What do you consider most important, you think, in terms of, of the different benefits? Well, I think, uh, the, the health care, of course, is an important, and has to be the single most important benefit Uh-huh. and, uh, the rates that we keep paying seem to keep increasing, uh you know, Yeah.
I'm, I'm a little disturbed about that, but I think that's a national trend, and I don't know that, uh, I don't know what the solution is to it. It's bigger than just the benefits part. Yeah, I don't know if you saw on TWENTY TWENTY the other night, they, uh, they basically reviewed Oregon's plan or The Oregon Plan toward, uh, nationalizing health care and that kind of thing. Uh-huh. Right. It's kind of an interesting plan. It's kind of cold though. They've essentially made up a list of, uh, oh, all the different, uh, medical maladies that you can have and then basically made a cutoff, Oh, yeah. about six hundred and eighty-seven and below will not be covered by, by, uh, subsidized health care, and the ones above would. Um. So it's kind of like drawing this line and, and if you have it great, if you don't, you're kind of out of luck Uh-huh.
but, um, it was kind of an interesting show. Um. I think you're right, I think health care is probably the, the most pressing uh, the pressing one, Right. but I'll tell you, I, I don't mind having dental, you know, sometimes dental costs can be, um, just about as expensive, if not more, and I know historically a lot of companies I think carried dental as a rider along with the medical Uh-huh. but I'm not sure that's, that's widely followed any more. I'm not sure, how, how does, uh, University of New Hampshire handle it? Well, we have two different plans that we can subscribe to under dental, uh, depending, and, and the cost between them is very, is very little. I think it costs me something like five dollars a, a month for the dental plan. Um. But it pays, uh, a substantial amount. I mean, the examinations and, and, uh, checkups every year, or every six months are free Great. and, uh, it, it covers the bulk of the dental expenses.

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