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I feel so silly but, See, I have never put bell pepper in tuna fish either. Yeah. Isn't that funny? I was brought up with tuna fish, you know, where you put in, uh, oh, chopped hard boiled eggs which is now is a no, no with cholesterol and, uh, you know, chopped up dill pickles. And that sort of thing. Right. Right. The standard old tuna fish. Yeah. I would put that too. I just did not have those things. Uh-huh. Like I don't think I had eggs that night or something, but I would have put eggs. I would have put eggs in there also. But isn't that interesting? So you, You, you use bell pepper and onion and celery seed. Uh, strange. Celery seed.
I will have to try that. Do you use a regular mayonnaise or, The Miracle Whip. Sometimes I do and sometimes I use the Miracle Whip. It depends on what I have. Yeah. And sometimes, if I am using, like, regular mayonnaise, to spice it up a little bit uh, I will use a little bit of mustard with it. Uh-huh. Yeah. I do that also. Uh-huh. Just to, to put a little zing in it. Yeah. But not a bunch. Uh-huh. But enough to, make it have a little bit more flavor. I love barbecue. Anything barbecued I will eat. I like, uh, to barbecue baby back ribs. Uh.
And, uh, and, and, they are so easy to do if you, uh, have a good barbecue sauce Uh-huh. and you, uh, just cook them very, very slowly in the oven. Uh-huh. And it is not hard to cook, like some meals are. Yeah. And it is not, of course, it is messy to eat. That is the disadvantage. Yeah. And, uh, I make lasagna from scratch and people really like my lasagna Yeah. I like to make that too. I make that once in a while. and so, uh, sometimes, I am requested to make that. And that is not too hard to do because you can do it in advanced and just bake it. It is not really, once you have all the ingredients Uh-huh. it is just the layering really. And not breaking the, uh, the, uh, pasta. Yeah.
Uh-huh. That is the hardest part probably. But, uh, Then, I have a wonderful recipe for strawberry pie. It just takes forever Uh. But, it is, uh, when the strawberries are nice, and big and fresh and yummy. Do you make cheesecake? Uh, uh-huh. I do. But this one is basically, it is like a normal pie crust. Uh-huh. But then you use this sort of, uh, it is a cream cheese, uh, uh, layering, but you, use, uh, thin it out a little bit. Uh, or make it a little fluffier Uh. and you put, uh, line the whole pie crust with that Uh-huh. and so, it is sort of like in a way. Uh, using cheese cake, Uh.
but, and it is not a real cheese cake and then you, And just put the strawberries, Ok. Ok, I was watching the soap opera awards. Oh And, uh, it is really making me want to exercise because every single woman in the audience is, uh, about ten pounds. Oh So. Uh, I started anchoring last, uh, anchoring, uh, exercising last, about last Spring, when I, uh, joined the President's Health Club. Uh-huh. And, I was really motivated and going, and, uh, I went, uh, for a little while, uh. I went pretty regular, but it is hard to go regularly for a long time. Uh-huh. And where I live in Waco, uh, they do not have anywhere here that is affiliated with President's so now I do not have a club and I am, uh, I do not have any motivation to just go out and jog aimlessly or something like that,
so I am not exercising at the time, at the moment. Uh-huh. So, I wish I could. I wish I did have the motivation to get out and do that, but I just do not like just running with no where to go I just cannot do that. So, Well, I understand that. I have been trying to get myself motivated. I had gone, gotten up regularly for awhile with a neighbor. Uh, she had injured her back and needed a walking partner and I thought that would be the time to get going. Uh-huh. And so, we walked pretty steadily for about three weeks and, uh, then she had to get back to work and which was traveling to New York and so she is not around. Uh. And I just don't like walking by myself at night or in the dark of the morning Yeah. I don't seem to find time in the day time.
Yeah. And of course, it is motivation that is keeping me from really looking for that opportunity. I think a lot of the times, if you have someone to, uh, work out with, or walk with, or something, it does give you that motivation. Oh, yeah. And you can also, I mean you can, you know, pretty much do it privately if you had your own private, uh, sort of contest. You know where you would try and see if you could lose more weight than your friend or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that would keep you going. Well, more than weight, of course, I could lose, uh, lose certainly from ten to twenty pounds Uh-huh. Uh-huh. but I think more than that, I also notice I just feel better when I exercise. Oh, yeah. And that is something that I am motivated about now because I do need to get myself feeling better just in better shape. Uh-huh. But, uh, all the same it is connected to my attitude, because I am not feeling as perky and good.
I am also, it is hard to get my attitude to, uh, to get myself up there. That is very true. It seems like you walk quicker. You just, perky is a good word for it when you exercise. Yeah. Yeah. And I understand that walking is suppose to be the, like, the best exercise. Better than running. Yeah. Yeah. Things like that cause it, it works everything And you have less chance of hurting yourself. and it gets your breathing up and it doesn't yeah, it doesn't hurt you. Like, I understand running hurt your shins or knees or something like that.
Yeah. So. Last time I tried running with my daughter cause she is supposed to be jogging in P E and it felt good, but then I had pulled a muscle in my knee. Actually, I hyper extended it or something, and, uh boy, Wow. I was suffering for about three weeks later. Wow. So, and I have never had that problem before Yeah. but I guess that age just starts to catch up to me Uh, oh It is showing up in the weirdest places. I guess my, my, favorite exercise, in the, uh, in the gym, is the bikes. Oh, is it? To go, yeah, there are these stationery bikes that you just ride
and if you watch television, they usually have television in there or something, or if you listen to a walkman, it is pretty, it is pretty okay. Again, that is sort of weird, because you, you, are not going anywhere and, uh, I use to play racquetball Uh-huh. and I really liked that, because, you know, to me it had a point. Yeah You know, uh, there were points you could, you would make and there was a point to it, but running and jogging and just not going anywhere is just, I don't like that, I just can't understand that. So, I don't do, Yeah. Well, I have got a dog now and, of course, she needs walking Uh, yeah. and that is a little less uh, burdensome or boring to be walking at least with her. Uh-huh. And I can put on the earphones to have something to listen to and,
Yeah. I know a lot of people just to be safe, like you were talking about, walking at night and in the morning or early in the morning. Uh, Yeah. you see a lot of, uh, mostly older people though but, that, uh, walk in the malls. Oh, yeah. You know, like early in the mornings and things like that. I have never tried that. Yeah. I don't know. You know, I have never even thought about it really. Yeah. That is kind of an idea. We, we have, uh, over here in Plano, a little recreation center that has got, uh, a walking track, that it is also for security as well as the convenience of doing it any time of the year. Uh. But, I find it very tedious because I am watching the clock constantly, and it there is just nothing else to look at Oh. and I actually get more tired doing that, than
I could walk for three or four miles out in the neighborhood here and feel real good. There I could barely make a couple of miles Uh-huh. And that is a little less, Well, what kind of music do you like? Well, seeing as how I'm a musician I like all kinds of music. Yeah. All very very kinds. Me too. I mostly like classical and jazz. Uh-huh. Well, I like everything from hard core country to you know Wagner, and Mahler and I like new age stuff. I, I basically have a wide range of musical likes. Do you, uh, are you musical, uh, are you a musician at all? Yeah I play the trumpet. Do you Uh-huh.
Mostly the trumpet music uh, uh, uh, baroque and, uh, uh, uh Romantic. Jazz. Baroque and romantic. Uh-huh. Yeah, that is not, there is, uh, things written for Doc Severenson and, uh, a few other people. But, uh, they are just, uh, as far as solos and concertos are concerned, but the rest of them are just parts Right. And, uh, Well, I love baroque music, so, it is one of my favorite periods. Yeah. In fact I I sing with a Texas baroque ensemble. Uh-huh Who are the trumpet players? Well, we used to have, uh, Ralph Dutchen. Uh-huh. But now he is in Massachusetts.
He has come back a couple of times. Then there is a trumpet player at North Texas, the, the teacher, the main teacher. Yeah Leonard . And he has played. And the two of them have played natural trumpets And occasionally, when she can't get those people, we use you know, just uh, E flat trumpets, with valves and like Glen Bell plays. Yeah. Uh, Rick, uh, Bogarts played too Uh-huh. so but actually, I like trumpet and organ together. It is a nice combination. Yeah. Richard Jung Julio recorded an album at the same time as , didn't he? Yeah, I think he did. Yeah. With Paul. Yeah
He is wonderful. Both of them are. Uh-huh So do you like romantic music? Well, that is what, that is mostly the rest of good trumpet marks are romantic music, Mahler and Ruckner and Strauss Uh-huh Do you like opera? Uh, I like, I am liking it more and more now. Uh-huh. Getting use to it They are mostly, uh, mostly Mozart. Uh-huh. I mean there is not any kind of trumpet parts, but, uh, you know, the, I just like the melodies more and, uh, libretto. Uh-huh. You don't like Puccini? Uh, yeah. I like Rossini better than Puccini. Uh-huh. I like more comic licks.
Uh-huh. Are you going to go see the Elixir of Love? No. Do you ever go to the Dallas Opera? Uh, no I have never been to a Dallas Opera only the Fort Worth Opera Uh-huh. And my trumpet teacher used to play in the Fort Worth Opera. Who was your trumpet teacher? John Nelson. Uh-huh. I know him, I kind of know him. Uh-huh. Is he still around here? Yeah, he plays in the Fort Worth Symphony and Fort Worth mostly. Because I don't, I have not seen him playing anywhere lately, but maybe it is cause he is playing in Fort Worth
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I am basically a Church musician. I do a Church in Plano. Uh-huh. And we do all kinds of music at my Church and we hire lots of instrumentalists off and on for, uh, different things. So, I am always making music of one kind or another. Uh-huh. Which Church is it? The Christ United Methodist Church in Plano It seems like a lot of Churches are hiring more musicians now than they use to. Yeah. Most Churches have the, well there are some of the few organizations that have the funds to, uh, you know, do like big big works Uh, but we hire, you know, we hire an orchestra at least twice a year and then different instrumentalists off and on through out the year. In fact, we have, do you know John Qumenato? Yeah. He plays at our Church a lot.
In fact he is playing this Sunday at our Church. But he plays pretty regularly. He is still teaching at Brookhaven, isn't he? Uh, I think so. He teaches a lot in Plano at high schools Uh, yeah. and, I think he teaches at Brookhaven. Yeah, because I heard Glen Bell taught at Plano as well. Yeah, Glen teaches here too. Uh-huh. They are, the two of them are mainly pretty much the, they have cornered the market on trumpet. Why don't you tell me about your choir. Oh. Okay, well, we, uh, are a group of, uh, musicians that just kind of have, you know, formed out of a desire to sing and many of the people in the group are very professional in the sense that they, or just real talented I should say. Uh-huh.
Lot of them are former music teachers or currently teaching. Uh, others have, there's one gal that's in the, uh, Plano Community Orchestra. Uh, just, you know, different backgrounds. It's been really kind of interesting. Great. So, Uh, I play the piano Um. and, uh, I have a four year old who, who has started to play the piano. He does that, uh, musically, listens and then he can play, which is kind of interesting. Oh, yeah. I think it's because he's always heard music in our home all the, since he was a baby. Uh-huh. Uh, my husband and my other son, who's eleven just got through singing in a musical here, in, in the community at Music Man. Oh, they did? Yeah, and that's lots of fun. How did, How did they get involved in that?
Uh, basically they read in the newspaper that there were open auditions. It was the Plano Repertory Theatre. Uh-huh. And so they went and tried out and my husband played Harold Hill from the Music Man and my son played one of the children in a band. Oh, how fun. So, yeah, it was really fun, and, uh, my son plays the clarinet in his band at school, and my daughter takes piano lessons, too. Uh-huh. But, uh, we just really like music. It's a, I, I especially like it as an outlet when the T V goes off, we get the T V off and just have some nice quiet music. Um, uh-huh, um. Yeah, yeah, that's nice.
You say have your four year old taking lessons already? Uh-huh. And, uh, who do you have her, or him, take it from? Uh, I have him take from a friend of mine who teaches Suzuki. Which is an auditory type learning experience. Uh-huh. You listen to the music and then learn to play it by by hearing the intervals and things like that. Uh-huh. I teach, uh, like what is traditionally taught, you know, you look at the note on the page and you play what's on the piano, but he can't learn like that. He's a delayed child. He's only about, I guess he's about two and a half in his real understanding of things. Oh. And, uh, so when my friend played something on the piano and he played it, uh, with his right hand, we went, wow Uh-huh. we better have him do do something. You know, educationally. Yeah. Yeah.
So that was really fun. Well, because my, My husband and I love to go to the musicals downtown, though. Pardon me? So, my husband and I love to go to the musicals when they come into town into Dallas. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Well, I have an eight and a half year old daughter who's taking piano lessons and started out at the age of just turning five Um. because she wanted, you know, she just seemed to enjoy it so much and now my, my four year old, four and a half year old daughter is, is trying to imitate her older sister and wanting to play and she actually does some very nice chording just naturally. She just, Oh, I think that's great. So I wasn't sure when to start her. I didn't want to push her too early, either, but, uh, kind of had a mixed feelings about that scene. That's really hard I think, because, especially if you start them and then they get pretty good and then they get close, ten, you know, eleven or something, they go, I don't want to do this anymore
and you're like God, I really want you to do it. Uh-huh Yeah. You know. Yeah. So sometimes it's hard to, to know exactly when, but, I don't know, if she acts like she wants to or says she wants to maybe you could have her take some for a while and see how she likes it. Uh-huh, uh-huh. Yeah, I think she'd like to, I just don't know if it's really, knowing from what my daughter has gone through, she's, she learned a lot and, of course, it was something she had to keep relearning if she ever got away from it. Uh-huh. It was something easily forgotten. So, uh, I don't know if she's any farther ahead than those kids who started when they were eight or, or should I say seven. I mean, she's not a gifted pianist in the sense that she's going to excel just naturally.
She does have to really work at it, but, uh, so, That's like me. Yeah, but, so I'm kind of, you know, just playing with it, but at this point we're going to kind of wait, I think just more for the financial reasons of it anyway but, Well, it can get expensive Yeah. that's for sure. Yeah. I, my friend is, is very generous in, in letting us have my children, uh, do the Suzuki method without paying a lot out. Uh-huh. Oh, that's good. Yeah, so it's been good for our family. Well, as a piano teacher, do you have any feelings for kids who come from a Suzuki method, have you had any former Suzuki students? I don't have any Suzuki students. Uh, I was wondering how,
Something happening to me at Christmas time that, that verified to me that I will I'm ready Why don't you go ahead and start off Okay, well, I don't have an elderly person that I could send to a, a nursing home or anything. My, both of my parents are dead, but I did have a friend that was in a convalescent home, uh, like a nursing home and I went there very often to visit her and, uh, made me feel really sad. If I did have a mother living, I don't think I could do that. I think they would be better off being at home with their family, you know. I agree, although, we're in that situation right now. Uh-huh. We have a, an eighty seven year old mother in law living with me right now Uh-huh. and because of her circumstances she can no longer live independently. And even moving from her house to our house has been tremendously unsettling for her Uh-huh. and we have several young children Uh-huh. and they about drive her crazy.
Oh, I can believe that. Yes, because most elderly people can't take having a lot of noise and kids running around and things like that. In a situation like that maybe it would be better. Well, we've, you know, we've struggled a lot with it because, again, most of the nursing homes I've been in are very depressing to me. Uh-huh. And she's still alert enough that I think she would really know that we were putting her there Oh, yeah. and I think she would really resent it, and I think that would make it very hard. Uh-huh. But, on the other hand, I see my wife with, I guess our youngest one now is five Oh. and her trying to struggle because her mother really cannot take care of herself. She needs to be bathed and dressed and a lot of those kinds of things. Uh-huh. Oh see, now that's, that's, that's really a sad situation. And so the drain on the family.
Yeah, really, you know. And when the kids have kids come, you know, she's always saying, you know, why do they have to be here, why can't they send them home, it's too noisy and she'll say that to the kids' friends. Uh-huh. Yeah, right, right. So it's a hard situation, either way, I think. Yeah, in a case like that, you know, you more or less think it would be better if she were in a nursing home because you have your family growing up where, I think that's one of the things we're really wrestling with. When does it become detrimental to our family to the point that you have to consider that as opposed to considering her current circumstances Uh-huh, uh-huh. and, Uh-huh, but the cost of these nursing homes are so, You know,
Oh, prohibitive. a lot of people can't afford that. Yeah. You know, so you really have no choice that way if you, you know, if you're not rich or you know. Uh, I know this lady that, you know, that was a friend of mine, now her husband was still alive at the time when she was in there, you know, and it was costing him a small fortune to keep her in there. Yeah. So, I think we need to develop some alternatives like adult day care that's more readily available, you know, Uh-huh. I think if we could send her someplace for the day and she could be around some elderly people and have some activities would be of more interest to her and then in the evening have her return and be with the family. Yeah, then bring her back home at night. Uh-huh, uh-huh. Yeah, you know, just come home for dinner and then usually they want to go to bed fairly early anyhow. Yeah.
You know, so that would probably be nice if we could ever get something like that but, But there's not many of those available right now Yeah. and they're very hard to get them into and we tried sending her to a senior citizen center. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. But they're really not prepared to cope with her because she's somewhat senile. Uh-huh. And so a lot of the activities that they're engaged in, she can't participate in. Uh-huh, uh-huh, um. But I think it's an issue that, you know, with the graying of America, we're really going to have to, as a, as a country figure out how we're going to deal with this. Uh-huh. Because it is a difficult situation and, you know, you hate seeing them just, sort of send off and not well cared for. Yeah,
if if they don't know anybody and they don't know what's going on around them and everything like that, well, I can see, maybe a nursing home would be better, you know. And yet, But if they, they have their wits about them and everything, why, it's kind of hard And then I think it depends on their physical ability, too, you know, if they could be up and doing some things it might be better than when they're just sort of needing almost constant supervision and care. Uh-huh, uh-huh. Uh-huh, uh-huh. Well, uh, my mother always said she hopes she never had to be like that and, uh, luckily, I mean, she lived by herself and then, you know, one day she had a heart attack and she was gone, so she never did have to go into a nursing home or anything like that, but there's, so many of us kids, there was like seven of us that, my, we wouldn't have probably allowed that to happen anyhow. Yeah. You know, she could have taken turns living with each one of us, you know, for a a a period of time because we all don't live in the same city anyhow, nor the same state so, Do you live at all close to each other? Uh, I, I have a couple more that live out here in California,
but then I have a Uh, why don't you go ahead first. Okay. Uh, short term, uh, it works out pretty well because we have just enough to cover expenses with a little left over so budgeting in the short term isn't too much of an issue because there's not that much, uh extra to go around. Sure. Uh, long term is something we're starting to think about because our older child will be ready for college in about, uh, gee, she's eight now so I guess about ten years. Uh-huh. Good heavens. So we're, we're starting to think about long term considerations. College and retirement. But with not a whole lot of discretionary money, it's kind of hard to figure out how to do it. Sure. How about you? That's kind of, uh, to what we're doing is budgeting, you know. Month to month is, uh, kind of taking into consideration what the bills are and what's extra so that's kind of how we do it, uh, from month to month depending on what insurance is due or whatever. Uh-huh.
Uh, long term, that's a little bit easier for us because, uh, with our jobs we can take out extra money towards savings, Four Oh One K plans uh, that kind of, you know, retirement plans, that kind of stuff Uh-huh. so we can kind of put aside some money that actually is better for us not to see versus when it's on the paycheck Right. and you have to try and take out some of that money. You always find something a little extra that you'd like to get that month so, uh, long term probably is a little bit better than short term simply because, uh, it's automatically taken out. So, uh, that works out much better for us, so that's kind of how we do it anyway but, And the old, uh, if you can't see it, then you can't spend it, uh, idea exactly and if you can't touch it, you can't spend it either. So that kind of works out where you get into, uh, some plans that, you know, you touch it you're going to get a penalty, that kind of thing, so it leads you to kind of say well I'm not going to take it out. I'm going to keep it and, uh, keep it in there and let it grow so that someway, maybe for retirement you're going to have that money left. Let's hope anyway, so you'll have that Right. so that's kind of how we do it.
But ours is more like month to month too, uh, short term is, to get things going so. Anyway, other than that, uh, is kind of how we do it so. I don't know if we're, our time is up or what Uh-huh. Uh, they'll, uh They'll let us know Yeah, exactly. We, we actually do have some money in a Four Oh One K. I just wish I could afford to, uh, put more away each week because I agree that it's a, an excellent way, Uh-huh. Oh, definitely, definitely. And, uh, it grows, uh, it, it seems like at first you're not going to see a big return but as the years go on, if you're with the company for any length of time then it gets much better and, uh, so, you know, you just have to kind of look at it that way and there's other savings plans or other things that you can do. Automatic, you know, deposit from checks to where you don't see it.
Right. And, uh, you know, exactly whatever is in our checking account is basically just about what gets spent. Yeah. It's put into our savings account and we don't see it, then it works out to where, you know, you don't look at it, you just look at the checking account, and say this is what we have for money and that's it, so Yeah, checking account's a very dangerous place for money to be I'm convinced. Yeah, it, it's easy because you do spend it, that's for sure. Like I said, you know, you kind of look at it, uh, you better have some other way of, uh, savings, otherwise, uh, checking accounts aren't the best for, you know, long term type of planning, so. And you don't get a good return on it anyway, so, other, Yeah,
I guess there, other than things like the stock market or mutual funds, there's really not much of a return on anything these days. Exactly. Right now. Yeah, it's a bad time, you know. Yeah, the interest is so low. I mean it, it's nice for people buying homes but for older people who have money in C D or whatever, it must be awfully hard to see rates go down to three and a half percent or whatever. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Exactly, exactly. You know, we have some in-laws, uh, that, uh, had theirs in some money market certificates and other things and, uh, kind of took them out of that because they got so low but, uh, yeah, it's, it drops so your better bet is to, uh, try to get in with something with your corporation if they have some kind of, uh, savings plans or something like that to where they kind of match the percentage or whatever so or some kind of profit sharing so. Yeah,
I'm, I'm with a small company now and I hope that, uh, if we're successful that they'll go in for some sort of profit sharing Sure. that'll be very nice. Yeah, that's great, yeah Okay. Well I guess we're kind of running out of steam on this topic here. Yeah, exactly Okay. Well, uh, just briefly. Uh, I worked in a nursing home so I kind of know, from way back, uh, how things used to be run and I think there has been definite changes of nursing homes but I think, uh, if I had to personally put one of my parents in a nursing home, they would have to be pretty bad off to where I couldn't take care of them at all. It would be something that, you know, I would certainly, if they're forgetting things or whatever, I'd prefer to have them at home or have them in what they call now home care where somebody comes in Uh-huh.
and they cook meals and they clean their house for them, that kind of thing, so they still have their own independence and not reliable, you know, they don't have to be in a nursing home situation. But, uh, I don't think the nursing homes, when I was working in them, were very much understaffed, very much, uh, in need of good personnel. Uh, I think the patients weren't given the quality of care that I wouldn't have, you know, I look at it and say thank God, I got out of that kind of situation. But they, they were not given the time Yeah. and they were not given the money, basically, to staff, appropriately, people to help. Uh-huh. And I can remember lifting a patient all by myself, simply because there was not another person to help. It's either leave the patient in bed all day long or get them up and I would have preferred to get them up than to leave them in bed all day. But, uh, uh, so I think nursing homes are, have changed.
I'm not quite sure, but hopefully, they have. Yeah, I guess I haven't had that much experience. I've only seen like my great grandparents in a nursing home Uh-huh. but I have an aunt who lived on her own until she was well in her nineties Yeah. Sure. and then she, she got sick and she ended up in nursing home Uh-huh. and my parents went to visit her and it got to the point where the it seemed like the nursing home didn't want to deal her anymore Sure. and so they gave her drugs to keep her asleep. Yeah. I, I think that's, that can happen and I think in the nursing home that I worked for, I wasn't quite sure of it,
but I'm sure that some of the patients were, uh, given medication to keep them in, uh, quiet and, and, Nice sedative state. Yeah, yeah. And they would just lay all day long and, uh, the ones they also put mentally ill patients in the same, they were not on the same, you know, ward, but they, they were in the same nursing home so that these mentally ill patients could walk into where the other, uh, older people that were in there for reasons of, uh, you know age, uh, the mentally ill patients could walk right in, into the rooms or do whatever they wanted to basically. Because if you weren't there to watch them and keep them in their own wing, they could, they had freedom to just walk around and a lot of them were, I think there was a couple that were schizophrenic and I remember one time watching one of the, uh, schizophrenic patients actually go out on, I don't know what they call it, a binge or whatever you want to say it Uh-huh. she grabbed a hold of this, and it was kind of funny when I looked back at it, but, I mean, I remember the patient getting very upset. That woman actually pulled, uh, the other person's hair.
I mean she just came up right behind him and pulled his hair, you know, and it was a guy that was just really upset. I mean he said what the hell are you think you're doing, you know, and I laughed at it then but then I'm thinking God, you know, if I had to put my parents in that nursing home, I wouldn't want them there. So I think there's laws now that kind of protect. That nursing homes either have to keep the mentally ill totally away from these people and not in the same type of facilities, Yeah. even though they're aging mentally ill, they are still mentally ill and a lot of these older people have their, you know, they're not insane or anything like that. They don't have these tendencies to, to lash out. To be violent. But seeing that kind of made me think twice about, jeez, I wouldn't put my mother, father in that nursing home at all. Was this in a big town or a little town? A small town. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah.
Because it seems like the small town nursing homes, there's a lot more personal attention. I don't know. I don't know. I, I kind of look at it this way. I think if you have a big city area, I think there's more people to keep watch on it. Uh-huh. You have more options. And, Yeah, yeah. And you have more competition. And I think nursing homes have to be better than when there's one nursing home for a whole community. And this is back in nineteen seventy-seven that I worked there Uh-huh and I look back at it and say jeez, you know, it would have to be awfully bad for me to put my parents in there. But my grandmother, uh, later on got cancer and, uh, could no longer, well actually she, Uh, taxes Do you want to go ahead?
Sure. We pay far too much in taxes. Well, far too much for what we get. I mean it's just, I don't know, it just seems too much of the money is just lost Uh-huh. I agree. Uh-huh. Well I think, uh, you know, when I look at, uh, all the things that are coming out now about over spending and spending money that's not there and buying things that are extremely expensive where they could buy it at a, at a better discount, uh, when you, when, Um. You mean like those, you know, twenty thousand dollar toilets Exactly, exactly. That's exactly, uh, the whole thing. When you take a look at all those issues of where our money is going and it's just, as long as the person that's spending the money, uh, doesn't think about oh, I can go out and spend anything that I want to it's just unlimited, Sure,
it's real easy to spend other people's money. Right? Right. An unlimited source so they, they think well I'll go out and buy a four hundred toilet seat and I could have went to K-Mart and bought it for, you know, ten or fifteen I mean, that kind of thing and, uh, Right. I don't mind them getting what they need. It's just when they pay so much for it. Exactly. It takes you know, very little to just shop around and, Exactly. And I know a lot of, uh, corporations now are looking at their amount of money that's being spent and they're looking at what's the best buy. That's true It used to be you could go, if you had a company you had to go through certain people and you didn't care what you paid. Yep.
I mean you just got it done. Now people are putting in bids for things and are looking at things. Going to actually shop at Best Buy for, Best Buy is one of our electronic stores for fax machines, things like that, instead of going through these office supply companies that mark up their amounts and say, you know, I'll give you a legal pad for five bucks, Right. and you can go to another shop and get it for maybe sixty cents or or ninety cents Yeah. that kind of thing so. I'm also wondering why our taxes are still so high considering like the world's probably in better shape now than it has been in the last fifty years Except for everything keeps going up, you know. And I know as a middle class, uh, you know, and also I have one dependent has my daughter Uh-huh. and I keep looking at well where's the tax, so-called tax, uh, relief for having children. Yeah, I know. I mean, there is none I mean, I think I paid just as much as when I didn't have her, Oh, I know, I mean I don't even, You know, I don't even get to see half my paycheck.
so Uh-huh. Between Four Oh One K and, and the thirty-four percent they're taking out for taxes. Sure. Exactly. Let alone what I end up having to pay Uh-huh. Exactly. Yeah, that's the whole thing. Now they have gotten this wonderful idea of not taking out as much taxes, but you're still going to owe the government as much money Sure. so by the end of this coming year, what's going to happen is all these people are going to find out that they owe the government and it certainly isn't going to be in their savings, uh, account. Nope, they won't be able to pay. They won't be able to pay it and there'll be a lot of problems because of that, you know. Put people into, you know, January or February which is always suppose to be,
the month after Christmas is supposed to be high spending because everything is on sale. Nobody's going to have the money to spend. Sure none . They're going to be paying on their taxes so they're going to have to just cut back so, I don't know where the answer is and I don't, in the first place, you know, there's also like taxation without representation. Well I don't feel represented anymore in our government. I mean, it it's certainly not a government for me. Yeah, Yeah. It doesn't take care of my needs No, no. Well, that's the whole thing. I think people are getting so fed up with it. Now, we go through another election and listen to all these lies about the,
and people don't care anymore either. No. No. People don't want to go out to vote. Well, I don't think people think they can make a difference. And when you've got candidates as you do. It's candidates that have money Yep. and it's backed by big business. And big business says well we don't care about the little person and, uh, you know, you're not going to get anymore Abe Lincolns around. No, but but that, that's going to backfire because little people who buy everything, Uh-huh. Well who knows, uh, yeah. so Generations from now we might, uh, set back in our little, uh, rocking chairs and watch our grandchildren go through an entirely different system of things and say, you know, this government itself isn't working. Just like the communist government of, uh, the old U S S R. Yeah
And maybe that's going to happen to America where they'll say, hey we're fed up. Yeah, I wonder though Maybe it'll have to be just individual state tax. And each state take care of itself and no government type of, uh, you know, where you have to pay out to federal or whatever. I don't know. Who knows but, Yeah, I'm not I don't know, I can't think of any easy answers to it but something has to happen, I mean I'm certainly fed up with it. Uh-huh, yeah. Yeah Everybody is,
in fact, I'm not sending in my check or So what do you think? Should they, uh, should young Americans be forced to do a year of service? I don't, I don't think they should be forced, but I think they should be, I guess, encouraged to, to do some kind of public work, I guess to, just to get them, I guess involved with community maybe, you know, just community activity. If nothing else, see how the city works, stuff like that. Yeah, I think something like the Peace Corps is a bit harsh. Yeah, No kids, I kind of, I think so, too. I think that's a bit dramatic, but, but other than that I think it's, it's a good idea to get them involved in city and community activities and, you know, like the, uh, shelters and, uh, that kind of, thing, helping out, uh, volunteering, I guess, if they can. Yeah. I think it's a little harsh to say that they should have to spend a year or two. Yeah. I, I, I'd force them. I think that, uh, I think it would be, I think I think a lot of kids actually do a lot of work and no one just realizes it.
Your right, I do, too, I think they start out young, like in, uh, Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts a video doing Right, exactly. I was a, I was a Boy Scout. As part of being a Boy Scout, you had to do, you know, projects all throughout and then to become an Eagle Scout you have to spend a, do a yearlong project. Right, that's, see that's what we did in Girl Scouts and that got you involved real good and it, I think it starts kids out on the right track and then it lets them decide if that's what they enjoy doing. Yeah. Something, I think, I, I, now I think people generally volunteer. Yeah. That there's no problem with getting them to, do stuff. I do, too. I think, I think a lot of people, a lot more people volunteer than, than, uh, than we, than get credit for it as, you know, like in hospitals and, uh, and the shelters and stuff like that.
And even if it is a couple times a year like at the holidays, I mean at least they're getting out and doing it and you know, helping, helping out. I think that's good and, Well, we have a funny commercial around here. It says something like, if people were to give five, hours a week or five percent of their salary, we could, they could solve all the world's problems or something. So, I guess if we all give five hours a week or five percent of our salary we could, uh, Yeah, yeah. or just, or just gave, or, or, or just forced our kids just to, to, force kids to serve for, uh, parents, I guess. Yeah There you go. Substitute. My, my, yeah, Right. my kid will do four or five hours this week for me. No problem. Yeah, it sounds pretty good That sounds good. I've noticed a lot of, uh, different organizations in our community, uh, pick up, like on the highway and stuff,
and I think that's pretty neat. They, uh, go along and have so many miles I guess of highway to take over Uh-huh. and they clean it up. I've seen that. Yeah. And keep it clean. I think that's I pretty good idea. And I think, you know, again I've seen a lot of young kids doing that and I think it gets them prepared to, to learn how to volunteer as they get older. I know I did, you know, in Girl Scouts and everything and after that in high school I would volunteer at a nursing home and stuff like that They, they, just started trying to get them, something together like, like that around here from, for, from the community because, uh, we had a big ice storm uh, very, very recently. So, Oh. You don't sound like you're in the north. You sound like you're in the south somewhere. Yeah, I'm in Texas.
Where are you at? Yeah, uh, I'm in, uh, New York. New York. Upstate New York, yeah. Oh, gosh. And, uh, Yeah. Long way, uh, Yeah And we just had a really big ice storm. And, basically, half the trees in, in our city, I'm in Rochester which is, uh right upstate. Half of the trees in the city, uh, are no good anymore. Uh-huh. Oh, no. That's how bad it was. Everything is just down everywhere. Oh. You know, we had three hundred thousand people without power. Golly.
You know, it was, and, you know, and, and they, and we didn't have power for a week and there are still people who don't have power. Are you serious? Oh, yeah, it's been, it's been, it's been ten days already and there are still something like ten thousand people without power. Oh my God, how do they live? and were officially, yeah, and we're officially in a state of emergency. Funny thing is the news, the national news how they covered it. Uh, Yeah. I haven't heard a thing. Yeah. I think it made about three minutes on one of the national news stations or something and, and we've been in a state of emergency for over, you know, for ten or eleven days. Lord. You know. We just got our phone back today, uh,
and, and, they're you know, putting out ads now for people to come volunteer, or to have their organizations come, volunteer to help clean up the streets. Well, that's good. That's great. Because we have, you know, everywhere that a tree is down people need help and, we're all, all, a lot of older folks need help getting, their yards cleaned out because they can't afford to pay anyone Right. Yeah. and they, and, and they certainly can't carry it themselves Right. and, So, and we go along and, I'm really not sure how we find the individuals, but we find older people that cannot afford to fix up their homes that desperately need it, and, uh, we go along with all the material and in one day, more or less, go in and say, roof, paint, fix whatever we can. Oh, that's great. Yeah, and spend a day doing, that's really neat.
I mean, it's not a lot because you're just doing a house at a time, but you know, every little bit helps. And is that supported by all donations to the church and so forth or, Uh, yeah. They, uh, luckily we have a, a man who owns a building company. Oh, so he, So he donates a lot, not everything, but a lot of the material. Then what he doesn't donate we just go out and buy. That's real nice. Yeah. And it's not, you know, we don't promote it a lot outside the community because we don't want recognition for it, you know so much as, we just want to help people out. Right. So it's real neat. That, that's real good. It's, Yeah, And I, and I bet it gives you a real good feeling to be doing that. it's like I say, it's not a lot, but it helps people.
Like this last couple we helped, you know, they were in their eighties and she was bedridden and, I just, you know, just tears your heart out to to see this kind of thing Yeah. and you know, if you can do any a little bit, it helps, so That's, that's, uh, that's real good. Yeah. We had, uh, we had organizations like that in college, you know. We had a community service group in college that had all sorts of different groups and some did like that, some did elderly visits, Yeah. some did, uh, some did, you know, Big Brother, Big Sister, stuff like that. And I'm convinced that, that, that at least twenty-five percent of our school participated in some sort of a, some sort of group. You know, activity like that. Gosh. That's great. That's a lot. You know. Twenty-five, I don't know. Twenty-five percent? A asks someone else in the Yeah, my wife was big in that
That's, that's a lot of kids, though. And she thinks, yeah, twenty-five percent. It, it was a small school Oh, well, still that's a, you know, that's a good chunk of kids. But, uh, Yeah, but, I mean, a, a, a lot of people would get involved and, you know, because there were all different, organizations to do. There was Big Brother, Big Sister, Yeah. they had a yearly auction, they had a dance marathon for charity or, to, to support that, group. Yeah. That's neat. Such that, you know, lots of people got involved that way. That's great. Yeah. That's great. But, uh, like, I'll agree with you, though,
I don't think they should have to do a year Yeah, no, neither do I. I think it should be completely optional and you know. Yeah. I don't think that, some people I don't think have, uh, a year in them to volunteer if you know what I mean. They're not worth it Yeah, they're not worth a year. Or some people just, just can't even afford it, you know, whatever. I mean, the Peace Corps doesn't pay very well. You know? Right. Oh, yeah, that's true, that's true. People get shipped off and then, you know, and then, and then their parents, I have a, uh, a, a friend whose, whose son is in the Peace Corps in Guatemala, or daughter is in the Peace Corps in Guatemala right now.
Oh. And, you know, he and his wife just went off to visit her and, you know, I know I could never afford to go visit a kid in Guatemala. I couldn't either. You know, so I couldn't either. so I think, you know, and, and, and the kid's certainly not making much money. Right, right. So I can see where that, that, may be a problem. Yeah. I just know one person that's in the Peace Corps and, I mean, she's a teacher and, and just wanted to do it. She'd been a teacher for a while. Just decided she wanted to do it, so. I mean, I'm grateful for people like that, but, I don't see how they can just, Yeah, Just take off a year. just, pick up and head on out.
Yeah, I don't, I wish I could do something like that, but I can't, so Yeah, yeah, well neither can I, so, I, I, I, I, I, I, did my service before and I'll do my little community service throughout, but never never for a year again. Right, that's the way I am. I know the feeling. So, so I guess our vote is no That's right We're against it That's right. Well, it's been nice talking to you again. You, too, and I hope everything works out up there.
Well, yeah, we're, we're slowly getting everything back together again. You know, it, it's taking time, but everything, you know, Yeah. we got lucky. We had no damage to our house or anything so, The rest will just have to come with time. Good, good, that's great. Yeah. Well, good luck. Well, good luck to you, too. Thanks. Bye-bye or Bye video Okay. All right, uh, feelings on what caused the S and L crisis
I guess I don't have a real technical knowledge for what happened I gather that there where large numbers of situations where loans were made that appeared to be a good loan but in a speculative since and with have little regulation going on because of deregulation during the Reagan eight years, uh, more and more S and L simply began to take riskier and riskier loans and then when they began to collapse one after the other I think almost like an avalanche of, of property values devalued. Uh-huh, kind of like a domino's effect. Right. I don't have a, a field for whether or not this is the equivalent of what was called the teapot dome. Uh, scandal, Oh, . are you familiar with that, from your histories lessons or whatever. No. No. Uh, I vaguely recall but I've never gone and done any study on it since the S and L thing that teapot dome scandal is when I think during the Hoover years where gobs of land was, was sold at really inflated prices on the theory that there were natural gas beneath it, and that, that appeared to be corruption within the Hoover administration. I don't have a real since of, of like corruption that caused S and L all though I have a feeling that people look the other way when things began to go sourer maybe. Uh-huh. No, I don't think it was really corruption that caused it,
or within I think people just started, you know, not being as careful with the loans that they were making whenever, you know, whenever they gave them out. Uh-huh. I think maybe they didn't check into them enough or maybe because everyone else was doing they figured they would just go ahead and approve it also so. Yeah. Yeah. It seems like there were on awful a lot of people making loans and business decisions on a get rich quick is the wrong phrase but, if it captures some of the, the feeling I have from the people making business decisions that if they failed it's sort of well no skin of my back I'll move on to this other company, Uh-huh. or I, I just since that they didn't have a commitment to the stability of the organizations they were, were making the decisions for. Uh-huh. Uh-huh And I don't know whether that's because they had other opportunities to which they could move, you know, that it was that easy for them to find new work that they didn't, weren't stuck to where they were and things begin to collapse they just moved on. I'm not sure.
Or whether they had extracted enough money in a percentage base that they, that they didn't care any more, I, just, I'm rather puzzled about the, whole thing Uh-huh. I know, well, I'm, uh, I know a little bit about it but I don't as much as I should know about it I'm a finance major here at Clarion. Okay. And, um, I do know that one of the reasons that caused it is the fact that the federal reserved backed any loan that the Savings and L made with a, a hundred thousand dollars. So they were kind of insured with that hundred thousand dollars and I think that's kind of why they, they were making the riskier loans, because they were like oh, well, we have a hundred thousand dollars insurance on it. Well, they didn't, they didn't have a since of risk. No, I don't think so. Oh, okay. And, uh, plus where the fact where they were allowed to make loans in, any, almost any type of loan and like some banks, you know, they're limited to the types of loans that they're allowed to make. Uh-huh. And I think the S and L were more open with the types of loans that they were allowed to make. Okay.
And I think if they would be more bound to certain loans and not as high of insurance by the reserve, then I don't think this would have happened. Okay. Well do you think we, there's a final accounting, yet not, in the since of pennies an nickels, but do you think there's accounting on an ordered of magnitude or, or that, that they really do understand how much money it is, for awhile it seemed like every time I opened the paper up it was escalating in terms of damage, uh, Uh-huh. did, is your since that we now understand how bad it is, *listen or is there more to be heard yet. Um, I think that people just basically got tired of hearing it and it wasn't making, it was wasn't as good news as it was. I think it's still, you know, I adding up, and I think it will be for awhile. So you don't think necessarily they don't have a complete grasp yet, No. or whether . I, I don't think they do. I don't think how, I don't think how they could find that big, how much was really lost or how much they were going to lose, because there still are some S and Ls still open. Uh-huh. And it's, it's very possible for them to go down in the future because of this. To be caught in the .
Uh-huh, uh-huh. Do you think to possibly is that it will help with the regular banks? I, I don't know. I I think it would be harder but I think there are some regular banks that will go down with it. It seems that I recall reading for the last oh, let's say starting three years a go but not so much in the last year of bank risks of relative to the loaning funds to third world countries like Mexico, Venezuela. Uh, and Argentina based on oil loans Uh-huh. and then the price of oil had, had gone south resulting in those loans being very risky, and I guess I read articles of various banks that have done the right thing to contain their risks given that they had made multiple billion dollar loans. I have this vague since that, that could happen that, that there are still monies loaned out to third world countries that could end up being totally lost. Oh, yeah, um, in some of my classes now I was just reading I think it was in Venezuela I can't remember what company it was, but they just wrote off like millions of dollars because they know they will never get it back. Uh-huh. You know, and they just, they just wrote it right off. I think, I think we've lost a lot of money and, you know, like we every never going to get it back
it's impossible to get it back. And so you think that it's just gone. Uh-huh, uh-huh, yeah, cause we're, you know, we're talking about some peens that have just like even gave up on like getting it back and trying any more. Okay. They just totally wrote it off their book. Do you think it is necessary to have the federal guaranty program like my since is it was there to try to protect small investors but it ended up protecting big investors. Which I don't think what it was meant to do, Oh. so I guess I, I feel like as long as we have the possibility for this large numbers of people to be protected the possibility exist for these sorts of problems. Uh-huh, um, yeah, I think is it necessary to have, um, the backing, um, it, it's, it's just for, you know, safe purposes, you know, in case something would happen. Um, yeah, I don't, I yeah,
as long as there's enough little companies we're going to have to have something. Um, so your since is that the, that, uh, the loan guaranties which really were accounts guaranties, so the, so that the account holders that if something went wrong they would have their money. Uh-huh. Right. And given that the S and Ls have had disasters then those account holders are, are, their money is still being protected. Uh-huh. And that is it's million of people with anywhere from thousands to tens of thousands I guess of, Of dollars being protected. Uh-huh. It, it seems like, um, there was a lot of money being protected in multiple accounts, uh, it's, if, if you take ten million people and protect ten thousand dollars it still only a hundred billion dollars and we're taking about monies way in access of that now so it's obvious that we've protected large accounts. Uh-huh. And perhaps multiple people in multiple S and Ls and, and it seems like maybe that needs to be thought about, rethought. Yeah. You know that the, for, I guess I'm content with the need to have protection on, on accounts but I feel likes it's on an individual basis.
Someone whose got accounts in thirty-five different S and Ls or thirty or forty thousand dollars and they're all protected by the government. Seems to me like they've gotten around what was intended to be the issue there. Uh-huh, I guess I don't have a personal since of V on it since I, was not a heavy user of any S and Ls Uh-huh. and, and let alone any of them that went bankrupt. And I guess that means that from my perspective it could happen again, I think it could happen, because that means, I'm not worried enough, uh, yeah, it's kind of thing where maybe we'll survive and then I, then it will happen again because we don't pay attention to those kinds of things. I think it'll happen again but I think it will be a long time in the future before it does happen again. Because I think like the bank people in any kind of people like that are going to be worry enough not to let it happen again in the near future. But I think later on they're going to start and forget about and start making the riskier loans because I mean, you're going to have to take some risk and as long as their backed I think they're still going, you know, start taking on riskier loans, and I think there is a chance of it possibly happen again but not until, you know, late, you know, in the future.
Uh-huh. Well, perhaps if there are regulatory, uh, constraints put back in place. It will protect that Uh-huh. maybe we have learned a little bit of a lesson here about what happens if you remove a little of the regulation, uh. Well, my family moved to Texas about eight years ago. My husband was raised here, by I, I have never lived here, so, um, when we came back to Texas, I was really kind of excited. There wasn't a state income tax and there wasn't a tax on food that we purchased at the, the grocery store and things. Huh-uh. And all of that was new to me, because I'm sort of feeling like we're getting a better deal here than what I was accustomed to. Yeah. Did you move from the Northeast? Well, I lived in Missouri and then in Utah and them, um, both places had pretty good state income tax. And, um, we've always paid tax, you know, on everything we purchased, even food at the grocery store. So, I thought it was really, you know, kind of a pretty good deal not to have to pay tax on your groceries and, but, I think, I mean, I don't enjoy paying taxes.
And it's hard, but, um, I think that is what we have to have, you know, have our streets and have, have our government and Excuse me. And have, and have the services that we need and we have to pay for them and pay for the employment of the people that run them and, and things like that and I think, I guess, what I feel is that most people, um, they don't like to pay taxes because they feel like there's some people that aren't paying their fair share. Yeah. I think, yeah. And, um, that makes you feel bad. People that can really influence the government have all the money to throw. Right. And you know, when, um, when last year the elections were going, on the governors election and state and, you know. I, I didn't have anything against Clayton Williams personally or anything, but, um, it was kind of hard for me to think, here's someone as wealthy as he is, didn't have to pay any income tax. That he said that year, he claimed, he had, he didn't have to pay income tax and he thought, you know, there's some people are living pretty, pretty good life styles, but they're not paying income tax. And that's not fair, to me.
No. And there's, you know, some people, you know, who are abusing the systems that we pay taxes to support and all that makes us feel bad. But I think, all in all, how I feel, is that, um, I'm willing to pay the taxes because I think I like our country compared to the other countries I've studied and visited. And I'm willing to pay extra to live here and to enjoy the services that I enjoy. How do you feel? Well, yeah. I agree that you have to pay taxes for the services you get and, and I think that, you know, I don't think that there's any really, any system that everybody would think is fair, as far as, being taxed. Huh-uh. Huh-uh. So, I guess, in Texas with, we live here also, Huh-uh. and that it's mostly sales tax, so it's, really the people that have money to buy things are paying the more because they're paying the sales tax on the larger items that they buy and stuff. Huh-uh. I've lived in Texas most of my life. We, um, lived in Kansas City for a couple of years, and we were kind of in for a rude awakening.
They had personal property taxes on like cars and, the first year we were there it was kind of like, eight hundred dollars, Oh, no. And we're like . My husband says I used to complain to pay sixty dollars to get licensed in Texas and now, you know, Huh-uh. So, I mean, that was kind of different and then to file a, a state income tax, was also kind of tough, too. I guess, since we've been married, we've moved a lot, so it always seems like, you know, we're always paying taxes for something. And it was kind of nice this year to finally be able to get a little money back. But, I, um, have a accounting background, Huh-uh. so I then, have also done tax returns in the past for other people when I worked for an accounting firm. Huh-uh. And, uh, you know, it is kind of sad to see how the people that have the resources to hire somebody and have the money to spend to put there money in places, they don't have to pay taxes. Right. Or to buy something that loses money so that they can offset the income that they get or whatever. Yeah.
So, you know, I think, if, I can understand why the rich people don't want to pay, you know, a large, large percent Huh-uh. because, you know, that's not really fair, either. If they've earned money by themselves, well, you know, people just kind of given the money, Yes. it's kind of depressing sometimes, I think. Well, it is, and sometimes, I think, um, well, for myself, that income that we have, we pay a certain salary, but, I think the employer keeps in mind this will be deducted, you know, so, so many taxes will be deducted from it and so, I think, you know, our salaries are a little bit higher because we have to pay taxes on it. Yeah. And so, I think, you know, in that way, we're compensated, um, just by our society. Um, yet, you know, they don't pay you, um, what, just what it would take, and if you pay taxes on it, you wouldn't have any money left over. And, and, um, but some of the people that make a great deal of money and everything I wish that they would, I guess, because I'm not one of them I wish that they would, you know, realize that they, they couldn't make this kind of money, Well, yeah, that's true they couldn't live that kind of life style anywhere else. Yeah.
In that, even if they made that kind of money, there's some countries that have like, fifty percent income tax, you know, that have, socialized medicines and things that, Yeah. they, um, they wouldn't be able to enjoy the in that. So that, you know, they need to be willing to pay a little bit more for it. Yes, they've earned it. And yes, they have such great fortune here, but they need to pay for it, too, because they couldn't do it somewhere else. Yeah. Um, I like Texas, um, not having the state income tax and I hope that because, um, we've had enough industry here, that, I guess it, is that why we don't have industry here is able to, to fund the state because we have oil here and things, I mean, that's what I've always heard. Is that, um, They must have enough other stuff because the way the oil has been the last few years, that, that really has not been, the industry that is bringing in the money for the taxes, I wouldn't think. Big boom.
Yeah. There's something about, um, the industry in the state, That, um, Yeah. there's enough. I know, we moved here from Houston and the city had enough money. It was really nice that they had, um, that they began to cut back because of the oil problems, but, um, they would have, um, so many community outdoor theaters and, And like, uh, community country club type things. Huh-uh. That the, it was such nice services to offer the residents in the city and I really liked that. Don't you have to, why people decided to expect certain services, Huh-uh. Then, they don't really think they should pay for them, maybe. I don't know. Yeah. That's true.
And I, you know, like the property tax that we pay is so much higher than my parents pay in Missouri. But, um, I'm, I'm comfortable at least in this year, with, with, we have some good schools. The school thing might be changing but, I'm willing to pay for that for my children. Yeah. And I'm willing to sacrifice, I guess. I'm not going to be the type of person that's going to grumble about the taxes, even though we're paying a pretty high percentage. I feel like you get what you pay for and I want to be here and I enjoy, I enjoy living here in this country and having seen other countries, I'd much rather live here and pay taxes, than live somewhere else and not Huh-uh. Anyway, well, I guess, I better let you go. Well, it was nice talking to you. Yeah, it was nice. I haven't ever, I need, I've never initiated one of these phone calls. Do you call in
do you get to pick the subject or, No. No. They just define it to you and so, you get what, uh, get luck of the draw Oh. I see. but, Yeah Yeah, anyway, well, good luck to you. Okay, you, too. Bye. Bye-bye. Hello Hi Hi, My name's Ken,
Hi Ken, my name's Diane. And, um, you're in Texas, right? Yes, I'm in San Antonio. Everybody's in Texas. God, I'm in Rochester, New York. Everybody else but one has been in Texas. Oh. Okay, well I guess we should get on with this. Okay. Um, did you get the message about what it was, right. Yes. Okay, go ahead, I'm going to hit the button
Okay, um, do you think that the Soviet Union represents a threat to us? I think they'll always represent a threat whether or not there's an active cold war or not. Uh, it's, it's a totally different economy based on different beliefs, and, and, uh, different priorities, and, uh, given the, the, uh, military powers on both sides, I think it's always a threat. That's interesting. I don't, I, I suspect they're not our biggest threat anymore. Probably not, no. I suspect it's probably some crazy man like Saddam Hussein who's our biggest threat, Right. but, um, I wonder if they're, I wonder how much of a threat they are. I agree with you that, that they'll always be somewhat of a threat given that they have, that there's just, it's just so big, and there's just so much military machine there. Uh-huh, and, and it's recognized that the two great powers are us and them, Right. and, and the great powers are always pitted against each other. But I wonder how much longer they're going to be a them.
I don't know They, they're going downhill pretty steady. Yeah. But I, I agree right now they're not, I don't believe they're a large threat right now. I think there's always some threat. Yeah, oh, I agree. I mean, if we were to, if, if something were to happen, I'm sure they would all of a sudden band together just for the sake of, for the sake of, uh, of, of unity against us or something if, if, if need be. Yeah, But, Actually I feel kind of sorry for them right now, because the people are, are, are, uh, wanting things that we have that they're not I mean, just some basic freedoms, and, and their government is not allowing it, and Gorbachev seems to be going back on some of the things that he's been trying to push. Yeah, actually I noticed this I mean, this, this, this most recent scare of his, where he said, or he just decided that instead of having, uh, instead of having, I can't think of the word now, if there are any demonstrations for, in favor of Boris Yeltsin, he decided, well, I'll just cancel all demonstrations altogether. Uh-huh. So, I, I, I think that, he, he, he's actually, he, I think, is becoming very dangerous because he's making those people angry at him,
Yeah. and he's also, I think he's also making, um, the military angry at him. Yeah. I mean, I've heard stories now where the, where the, um, the military is running around, and they're sort of getting restless, and a restless military is the kind of thing that happens, you know like with the Baltic states when they just go in there Yeah. divvy the people up. See, I'm concerned that, that since he's banned demonstrations altogether, that he's going to do the type of thing that happened in Tiananmen Square, and he's going to wipe out, no telling how many of his own countrymen, uh, right in the middle of Red Square, Uh-huh. and, uh, it's going to cause a, more civil war than is already occurring. That's interesting. I, I wonder, I don't know if he's, he, he seems, the thing about Gorbachev strikes that he wouldn't be that dumb I don't know though. I don't know.
I mean, and it, it might be something that he wouldn't be able to control. That's, that, that's something that really true sort of a military thing I was speaking of before. Uh-huh. That's, that's certainly true. I mean, his military may just go out and say, Well, we just, Gorbachev said you can't do it, and we're to not let you do it, you know. So. Yeah. Yeah, that, that's real scary, actually. Yeah. I mean, I, I, I would expect their own problems would keep them away from us for a while, but it could be real dangerous. Yeah, we've got our own worries at the moment. Yeah, right, we don't need to worry about them.
I guess as long as, uh, they're fighting each other, we don't have to worry about them wasting their time with us. Yeah, but wouldn't it be nice if no one had to fight anybody else. Well, sure, that, but that's a, that's an impossibility, I think given the differences in the world, Yeah. and people are just too different. Well, I don't, I don't know. I think that underlying we're all pretty, probably not as, as different as everybody thinks. But unfortunately, people, people aren't that insightful. Right. Well, that's, that's certainly true of it. They just see that this guy prays differently and to someone else than I do. So, therefore, he's wrong and he's bad, and we have to wipe, wipe him out. That's true. I was, I was discussing with someone before, um, this, someone before, actually one of these calls Uh-huh.
matter of fact about another topic, but it came up, one of these calls Uh-huh. matter of fact, about, um, another topic, but it came up, one of these, this, this poem, Everything I Wanted to Know I Learned in Kindergarten, or something. Uh-huh. You've read that one before. No, I haven't read it. I've heard all about it, though. That, this, this is the idea that I think is actually very, is, is, what I think we should all revert to. The idea that, um, basically they said, everything happened in kindergarten, and in kindergarten we learned to share, and we learned to, um, play with each other, we learned to take nap, and to take naps, and whenever we'd start a fight we'd all apologize and hug each other you know, Yeah.
and that would be all. If we could just do the same thing sort of, with, with, with everybody else, I suspect we'd, we'd be fine. Yes, but people grow up, and they forget. Yeah, unfortunately. Well. Because I often, I often sort of wonder how, having never been to the Soviet Union, um, how different the people there really are, you know. How much , That's one of the places I would most like to go. Not right now, of course Yeah. but at some point I would like to go to Moscow and, and, to, just to see all these things that you can see on television now and can read about that ten years ago we didn't have this kind of information Right. and we didn't know what things were like. So. I would, I would love to go there. I mean, like, again, not now, but at some point, to go see what, what this is like, I mean, this, this is amazing, because, this is, this is an, this is an example of an entirely different culture that wants to be like us.
Like you said before, so it would be interesting to watch. Yeah, I and, I, the, the people. I just feel so sorry for the people in the country, that they can't, I mean, they, they can't do they can't change it. They try they, and they, there's nothing that they can do. Yeah, that's, that's and the ones I even feel somewhat worse for, even, um, the ones in like the Baltic states where they don't have a strong leader, then, you know, Uh-huh. at least, at least Russia has some sort of strong leader. I mean they have Yeltsin who may, who may yet sort of help Russia. Yeah. But, um, I mean, the Baltic states, I think, are just sort of trapped. I mean, they were taken over couple, you know, not too long ago and then just sort of told, well, you're here now, Yeah. you're part of our country.
You be this way. It's a, I think it's a sad state of affairs, but. It's, it's probably not dissimilar from the, uh, what are they, the, the, the, I'm trying to think of the name of the, the , something like that in Northern Iraq who are actually countrymen of, Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, some of them were split off into Israel, I believe, and some of them are in Turkey when actually they, they don't, they're their own people and their beliefs and their own culture system. Uh-huh. Right. And they were split up into three different countries. Uh-huh. Yeah, well, yeah, and that. And, and they're very dissatisfied, and they're, they're causing wars right now, and I don't think it's that different from what the Baltic states are, are going through. Um, um, um, uh, actually it sounds very, I mean, very similar. They're sort of being, they were sort of forced,
and now they just want to sort of speak up and say Hey, we want our piece. Yeah. And they have like a problem, they have Muslims to deal with as well as Saddam Hussein. Uh-huh. I, I mean I think their big problem up there is, you know, unfortunately, not only are they there's more than one group fighting for the same place. They all want the, you know, whereas the Baltics are saying, Oh, we want our own. We just want this little tiny piece of land. Yeah. The, the one that I think, one of the women that I work for is married to an Iranian, and so she has a lot of insight, because she knows a lot of the history of the countries over there, Uh-huh. and within five or six countries there are probably ten cultures of people, Yes, yes.
And that's, they don't all have their own country, and, and some of them are mad about it Uh-huh. Um, actually, my wife is Syrian, so I, I, also I know some of the history . Oh. And actually the other funny thing is that I'm, I'm Jewish. We're sort of like the Middle East peace talks ourselves. Oh, uh-huh. So we, I, I know, I've been to Israel, and I know, and I sort of toured the area, and I know that it really is very, lots of different cultures in one place, I mean Uh-huh. and it's the same thing I it's, it's almost the same thing out, out in the Soviet Union right now. There, you know, there are, you can't take a whole bunch of people who just aren't the same people and don't want to be together and put them together forcibly. Yeah. I mean, we did it couple of hundred years ago here,
but they wanted to do it. So. Yeah, and I don't think the people here two hundred years ago were that different, I really don't. That's, that's certainly true. I mean, they had the same ideals and the same basic beliefs. Right, uh, I wonder, I wonder if now the people in the Soviet Union don't have ideas very different from that. they might. The Baltic states might be feeling the same way that our forefathers felt when they were leaving to come here ... Good morning. Good morning. Uh, okay, go ahead. , no, no, go ahead. Yeah, I understand the topic this morning is, uh, our policy in Latin America and, you know, what we've been doing down there.
So, uh, as you indicated you don't have too much input into the area it, it just so happens that, uh, our daughter-in-law is Panamanian, and, uh, we have been in Panama and I have worked in El Salvador and, uh, we visit Mexico occasionally, so, yeah, we, we do have a little information on it here, but, uh, Oh, very good, because actually, um, when I was in college I visited Mexico several times, I was in the Peace Corps and, um, Peru, Oh, uh-huh but, but recently I have been following the Middle East rather than, Central America Yeah. Yeah, it does seem to have quieted down there just a little bit that's, that's for sure. No, I, the U S policy, uh, towards Central America as far as, uh,
well, I kind of go back to, to the El Salvador thing because Texas Instruments had a, a plant down there for a while, and I worked in there for a little while, and at that particular time, let's, let's see, that was seventy-three, seventy-four kind of before the, the, uh, the Civil War really picked up down there, and U S policy at that particular time there was, of course, military assistance to, uh, to the government itself, you know, anything that's, that's anti-Communist, you know, we kind of had a tendency to be pro Right. It don't matter what their excesses were, and I believe at the time that I was down there, that, uh, the government, uh, the Salvadorian government you know, really gotten out of hand yet, the, uh, right wing death squad type situation I believe that, that was beginning to form but I don't, I, I wasn't really aware of it's being, you know, terribly, uh, you know, at the time that, that I was down there, I think that really kind of developed a little bit later on, but, uh, our policies seem to be pretty much one of, uh, you know, trying to setup businesses down there and use the one resource, anyway, that Salvador had, plenty of and that was people. Right. We didn't seem to be going in and taking anything out of the country other than just it's, it's labor, Uh-huh. because everything that T I did anyway we, we shipped in
and it was worked on down there, assembled, and then sent back here, so, Uh-huh, did that have, I didn't feel that we really exploiting them any. Um, so, you don't, you don't feel that, that we were, um, exploiting in the sense of we were benefiting and they weren't. No, uh, in the particular incidence that I was aware of, now T I wasn't the only ones in there, Playtex was in, there was, uh, several other companies, Uh-huh. and, uh, of course, we kind of concentrate on , there wasn't much to take out of the country I felt like we're going in and taken all their, um, their gold or oil, or bananas or coffee or anything like that, Uh-huh. because, uh, it just, the only thing that they had a great abundance of was, uh, you know, human beings and, uh, Uh-huh.
did we tend to, um, change their attitudes like sometimes when Americans go into foreign countries they tend to flaunt American things, Americanism, um, consumer products, T V, the whole works. Yeah, I understand what you say. There was a, uh, the time that I was down there, I stayed quite a, a bit at the, uh, uh, one of the big hotels San Salvador. And at the time I thought there ought to be a law against American tourists. Because they, for the most part, tend to be the most obnoxious as a, as a group, and I saw this in Panama also, Uh-huh. uh, oh, you know, it's, it's the, uh, the almost stereotype, you know, flowery shirt, shorts, camera hanging around their neck, you know, demanding this, that and the other thing, you know, we're, we're here, and we want this, and we want that, and that sort of thing, that's, that's the stereotype that's very strong down there, you know, the, the, the, you know, that sort of thing, I, I, I believe those of us who were working down there, got a little bit more appreciation for, you know, the local, uh, culture I really don't believe that we were quite that bad, but yet they were having to deal directly with, uh, you know, with the, uh, the local people.
Uh-huh, uh-huh. And, uh, but boy there is a, there is a bad, uh, uh, you know, the old brash or ugly American-type, situation. Uh-huh. And I saw incidences in the hotel where I just wanted to go over and crawl in the corner and say, oh, my God those are, those are not Americans they can't be. Right. But there are and, uh, of course, now I, I do have to, I remember one case where we had some Canadians in there who were every bit as bad, but I mean, it, I think it's just kind of the North American situation . In Panama they've been used to Americans down there for so darn long but I didn't see quite as much of that sort of thing, as Panamanians are just about as as, uh, as as Americans, as far as, uh, creature comforts, you know, they're, uh, they're, they're every bit, uh, I, I know, when, my, my son was in the Air Force and he was stationed in Panama, and he married a Panamanian girl, and when she came up here, uh, you know, she's, except for the language situation, some of the cultures she's just about an American, you know, is as far as T V and, and, you know, the, the moneymaking part of it and all that,
Uh-huh. matter of fact if anything, she's worse. Uh-huh, uh-huh But, uh, uh, it, it just, there's little enclaves down there where, you know, Americans have a lot of influence and the local population kind of, um, you know, sort of accepts that, but I've also seen the other side of it, too. Uh-huh Well, you were in Peru? Yeah, I was in Peru, but, um, I, there weren't, as I recall, or at least I wasn't aware of that many Americans there except for a very heavy concentration of Peace Corps volunteers, Uh-huh this was when the Peace Corps first are started, Uh-huh. and it was one of the big targets and, um, I don't, I don't think, at that time, at least, Peace Corps was, uh, an obnoxious group in the sense that, that we were very controlled regarding number of days off and, and you couldn't just, take up, take off and leave your group and go explore and, and things like that, Oh. Uh-huh.
but, and I was working actually in the savings and loan program, so, that was quite specialized, although I was living in the slums, I was really working with the middle class. Uh-huh What, uh, what area did you live in? I was up in Arequipa . Oh, okay yeah. And, um I've heard of it. Uh-huh so. Well, is, are they, is Peace Corps still active down in there? I don't have any idea, um, probably not, I mean, there were I was, uh, Peru thirteen, which meant there were twelve groups before mine, that had gone in Uh-huh. and, and some of them were quite big in the sense they were community development, and they were building schools and doing co-ops and things like that, health, um, inoculation and, and things.
Oh, has those influences lasted do you know whether the, the things that, that you and your groups before you did, did those, did those live on or were they reabsorbed or how, No, no, I believe they did because, um, some of, some of the, the Peace Corps, uh, that I knew of, did marry Peruvians, and have been back Uh-huh and every now and then some news filters in that they went to see some of the old things, and of course, the savings and loan program, um, that was, that, you know, that, that just continued to grow. In fact, after my group, I mean, we were just a very small specialized group, too, to get that going and spread and then, of course, Peace Corps bowed out of that because that's, uh, uh, something that nationalized very quickly. Uh-huh. And the same with the co-ops. Well, that's, that was kind of the, the aim wasn't it, to get it started and then have it, taken up by the, Right. oh, okay, so, you know, well, that's,

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