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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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because in this zone, you're not conscious of inner voice anymore, there's always inner
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:37:30.840
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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voice nagging you, you have to do this, you have to do that, you have to pay your taxes,
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:37:35.620
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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you have to fight with your ex and all of those things, they're always there.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:37:39.200
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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But when you're in the zone, all of that is gone and you're just in this wonderful state
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:37:42.480
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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where you're fully out in the world, you're climbing or you're rowing or biking or doing
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:37:46.320
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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soccer or whatever you're doing and sort of consciousness is this, you're all action or
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:37:51.480
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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in this case of pure experience, you're not action at all but in both cases, you experience
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:37:57.500
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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some aspect of conscious, you touch some basic part of conscious existence that is so basic
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:38:02.320
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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and so deeply satisfying.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:38:10.120
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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You I think you touch the root of being, that's really what you're touching there, you're
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:38:12.720
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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getting close to the root of being and that's very different from intelligence.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:38:16.480
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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So what do you think about the simulation hypothesis, simulation theory, the idea that
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:38:21.800
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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we all live in a computer simulation?
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:38:25.920
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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Rapture for nerds.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:38:28.040
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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Rapture for nerds.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:38:30.400
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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I think it's as likely as the hypothesis had engaged hundreds of scholars for many centuries,
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:38:31.400
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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are we all just existing in the mind of God?
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:38:39.440
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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And this is just a modern version of it, it's equally plausible.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:38:42.680
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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People love talking about these sort of things, I know they're book written about this simulation
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:38:47.680
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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hypothesis, if that's what people want to do, that's fine, it seems rather esoteric,
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:38:51.400
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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it's never testable.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:38:56.280
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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But it's not useful for you to think of in those terms, so maybe connecting to the questions
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:38:58.320
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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of free will which you've talked about, I vaguely remember you saying that the idea
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:39:02.660
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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that there's no free will, it makes you very uncomfortable.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:39:07.840
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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So what do you think about free will from a physics perspective, from a conscious perspective,
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:39:13.480
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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what does it all fit?
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:39:19.440
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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Okay, so from the physics perspective, leaving aside quantum mechanics, we believe we live
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:39:20.440
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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in a fully deterministic world, right?
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:39:24.840
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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But then comes of course quantum mechanics, so now we know that certain things are in
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:39:27.160
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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principle not predictable, which as you said I prefer, because the idea that the initial
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:39:30.400
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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condition of the universe and then everything else, we're just acting out the initial condition
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:39:36.700
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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of the universe, that doesn't…
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:39:40.640
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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It's not a romantic notion.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:39:42.680
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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Certainly not.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:39:45.320
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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Now when it comes to consciousness, I think we do have certain freedom.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:39:47.160
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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We are much more constrained by physics of course and by our past and by our own conscious
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:39:50.780
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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desires and what our parents told us and what our environment tells us.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:39:55.120
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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We all know that, right?
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:39:59.160
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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There's hundreds of experiments that show how we can be influenced.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:40:00.160
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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But finally in the final analysis, when you make a life – and I'm talking really about
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:40:03.760
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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critical decision where you really think, should I marry, should I go to this school
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:40:08.360
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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or that school, should I take this job or that job, should I cheat on my taxes or not?
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:40:11.560
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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These are things where you really deliberate and I think under those conditions, you are
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:40:18.680
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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as free as you can be.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:40:22.560
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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When you bring your entire being, your entire conscious being to that question and try to
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:40:24.720
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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analyze it under all the various conditions, then you make a decision, you are as free
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:40:31.440
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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as you can ever be.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:40:37.080
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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That is I think what free will is.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:40:38.880
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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It's not a will that's totally free to do anything it wants.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:40:40.680
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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That's not possible.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:40:44.560
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
|
Right.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:40:45.920
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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So as Jack mentioned, you actually write a blog about books you've read, amazing books
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:40:46.920
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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from, I'm Russian, from Bulgakov, Neil Gaiman, Carl Sagan, Murakami.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:40:52.760
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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So what is a book that early in your life transformed the way you saw the world, something
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:41:01.080
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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that changed your life?
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:41:06.760
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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Nietzsche I guess did.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:41:09.880
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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That's Brooks R. Truster because he talks about some of these problems.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:41:10.880
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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He was one of the first discoverer of the unconscious.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:41:14.520
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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This is a little bit before Freud when he was in the air.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:41:17.920
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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He makes all these claims that people sort of under the guise or under the mass of charity
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:41:23.240
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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actually are very noncharitable.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:41:29.040
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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So he is sort of really the first discoverer of the great land of the unconscious and that
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:41:32.360
|
Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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really struck me.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:41:39.840
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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And what do you think about the unconscious, what do you think about Freud, what do you
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:41:41.600
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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think about these ideas?
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:41:45.480
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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Just like dark matter in the universe, what's over there in that unconscious?
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:41:47.880
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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A lot.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:41:51.920
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
|
I mean much more than we think.
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:41:52.920
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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This is what a lot of last 100 years of research has shown.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:41:53.920
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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So I think he was a genius, misguided towards the end, but he started out as a neuroscientist.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:41:57.480
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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He contributed, he did the studies on the lamprey, he contributed himself to the neuron
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:42:02.840
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
|
hypothesis, the idea that there are discrete units that we call nerve cells now.
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:42:09.480
|
Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
|
And then he wrote about the unconscious and I think it's true, there's lots of stuff happening.
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:42:13.400
|
Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
|
You feel this particular when you're in a relationship and it breaks asunder, right?
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:42:20.920
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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And then you have this terrible, you can have love and hate and lust and anger and all of
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:42:25.560
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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it's mixed in.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:42:29.880
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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And when you try to analyze yourself, why am I so upset?
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:42:31.520
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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It's very, very difficult to penetrate to those basements, those caverns in your mind
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:42:35.080
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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because the prying eyes of conscious doesn't have access to those, but they're there in
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:42:41.080
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
|
the amygdala or lots of other places.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:42:45.840
|
Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
|
They make you upset or angry or sad or depressed and it's very difficult to try to actually
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:42:48.560
|
Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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uncover the reason.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:42:53.720
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
|
You can go to a shrink, you can talk with your friend endlessly, you construct finally
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:42:54.720
|
Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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a story why this happened, why you love her or don't love her or whatever, but you don't
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:42:58.360
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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really know whether that actually happened because you simply don't have access to those
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:43:02.520
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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parts of the brain and they're very powerful.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:43:07.640
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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Do you think that's a feature or a bug of our brain?
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:43:09.280
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Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
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The fact that we have this deep, difficult to dive into subconscious?
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:43:12.600
|
Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
|
I think it's a feature because otherwise, look, we are like any other brain or nervous
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:43:16.840
|
Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
|
system or computer, we are severely band limited.
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:43:24.320
|
Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
|
If everything I do, every emotion I feel, every eye movements I make, if all of that
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:43:28.640
|
Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
|
had to be under the control of consciousness, I wouldn't be here.
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:43:34.480
|
Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
|
What you do early on, your brain, you have to be conscious when you learn things like
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:43:42.720
|
Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
|
typing or like riding on a bike, but then what you do, you train up routes, I think
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:43:46.460
|
Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
|
that involve basal ganglia and striatum.
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:43:52.320
|
Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
|
You train up different parts of your brain and then once you do it automatically like
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:43:54.640
|
Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
|
typing, you can show you do it much faster without even thinking about it because you've
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:43:58.800
|
Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
|
got these highly specialized, what Frans Krik and I call zombie agents, they're taking care
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:44:02.000
|
Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
|
of that while your consciousness can sort of worry about the abstract sense of the text
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:44:07.800
|
Christof Koch: Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #2
|
you want to write.
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0002-large.html#00:44:11.320
|
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