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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
But in terms of like sorting and a lot of the basic stuff,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0007-large.html#01:10:24.320
Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
we're using the host processor.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
But to the extent that a lot of programming
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
is still gonna be server side, I would say, yeah,
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
the Unix philosophy definitely won.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
And there'll be different veneers over Unix,
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
but it's still, if you peel away one or two layers,
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
it's gonna be Unixy for a long, I think Unix won.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
I mean, so definitively.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
It's interesting to hear you say that,
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
because you've done so much excellent work
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
on the Microsoft side in terms of backend development.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
Cool.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
So what's the future hold for Jeff Atwood?
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
I mean, the discourse, continuing the discourse
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
in trying to improve conversation on the web?
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
Well, discourse is what I've viewed as a,
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
and originally I called it a five year project,
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
then really quickly revised that to a 10 year project.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
So we started in early 2013,
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
that's when we launched the first version.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
So we're still five years in.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
This is the part where it starts getting good.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
Like we have a good product now.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
Discourse, there's any project you build in software,
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
it takes three years to build what you want it
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
to build anyway.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
Like V1 is gonna be terrible, which it was.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
But you ship it anyway,
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
because that's how you get better at stuff.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
It's about turning the crank.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
It's not about V1 being perfect,
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
because that's ridiculous.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
It's about V1, then let's get really good at V1.1,
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
1.2, 1.3, like how fast can we iterate?
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
And I think we're iterating like crazy on discourse,
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
to the point that like, it's a really good product now.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
We have serious momentum.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
And my original vision was,
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
I wanna be the WordPress of discussion.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
Meaning someone came to you and said,
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
I wanna start a blog.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
Although the very question is kind of archaic now.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
It's like, who actually blogs anymore?
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
But I wanted the answer to that to be,
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
it would be WordPress normally,
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
because that's the obvious choice
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
for blogging most of the time.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
But if someone said, hey, I need a group of people
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
to get together and do something,
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
the answer should be discourse, right?
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
That should be the default answer for people.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
Because it's open source, it's free,
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
doesn't cost you anything.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
You control it, you can run it.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
Your minimum server cost for discourse
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
is five bucks a month at this point.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
They actually got the VPS prices down.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
It used to be $10 a month for one gigabyte of RAM,
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
which we have a kind of heavy stack.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
Like there's a lot of stuff in discourse.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
You need Postgres, you need Redis, you need Ruby,
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
and Rails, you need a sidekick for scheduling.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
It's not a trivial amount of stuff
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
because we were architected for like,
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
look, we're building for the next 10 years.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
I don't care about shared PHP hosting.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
That's not my model.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
My idea is like, hey, eventually,
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
this is gonna be very cheap for everybody
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
and I wanna build it right.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
Using again, higher, bigger building block levels, right?
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
That have more requirements.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
And there's a WordPress model of WordPress.org,
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
WordPress.com.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
Is there a central hosting for discourse or no?
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
There is.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
We're not strictly segmenting into the open source
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
versus the commercial side.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
We have a hosting business.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
That's how discourse makes money
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
is we host discourse instances
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
and we have really close relationship with our customers
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
of the symbiosis of them giving us feedback on the product.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
We definitely wait feedback from customers
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
a lot heavier than feedback from somebody
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
who just wanders by and gives feedback.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
But that's where we make all our money.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
But we don't have a strict division.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
We encourage people to use discourse.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
Like the whole point is that it's free, right?
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
Anybody can set it up.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
I don't wanna be the only person that hosts discourse.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
That's absolutely not the goal.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
But it is a primary way for us to build a business
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
and it's actually kind of a great business.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
I mean, the business is going really, really well
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
in terms of hosting.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
So I used to work at Google Research.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
It's a company that's basically funded on advertisements.
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