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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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to be in the presence of people who are even smarter than us
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:42:39.320
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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all around is when you and I were both two years old,
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:42:42.560
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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I mean, our parents were much more intelligent than us,
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:42:45.600
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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right?
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:42:48.360
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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Worked out OK, because their goals
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:42:49.040
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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were aligned with our goals.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:42:51.960
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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And that, I think, is really the number one key issue
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:42:53.960
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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we have to solve if we value align the value alignment
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:42:58.680
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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problem, exactly.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:43:02.280
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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Because people who see too many Hollywood movies
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:43:03.080
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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with lousy science fiction plot lines,
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:43:06.520
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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they worry about the wrong thing, right?
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:43:10.000
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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They worry about some machine suddenly turning evil.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:43:12.200
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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It's not malice that is the concern.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:43:16.320
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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It's competence.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:43:21.480
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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By definition, intelligent makes you very competent.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:43:22.880
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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If you have a more intelligent goal playing,
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:43:27.440
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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computer playing is a less intelligent one.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:43:31.920
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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And when we define intelligence as the ability
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:43:33.680
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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to accomplish goal winning, it's going
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:43:36.120
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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to be the more intelligent one that wins.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:43:38.600
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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And if you have a human and then you
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:43:40.560
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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have an AGI that's more intelligent in all ways
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:43:43.560
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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and they have different goals, guess who's
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:43:47.720
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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going to get their way, right?
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:43:49.520
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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So I was just reading about this particular rhinoceros species
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:43:50.720
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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that was driven extinct just a few years ago.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:43:57.120
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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Ellen Bummer is looking at this cute picture of a mommy
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:43:59.200
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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rhinoceros with its child.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:44:02.280
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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And why did we humans drive it to extinction?
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:44:05.080
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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It wasn't because we were evil rhino haters as a whole.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:44:09.320
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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It was just because our goals weren't aligned
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:44:12.800
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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with those of the rhinoceros.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:44:14.920
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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And it didn't work out so well for the rhinoceros
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:44:16.000
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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because we were more intelligent, right?
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:44:17.680
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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So I think it's just so important
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:44:19.560
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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that if we ever do build AGI, before we unleash anything,
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:44:21.240
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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we have to make sure that it learns
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:44:27.120
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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to understand our goals, that it adopts our goals,
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:44:31.840
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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and that it retains those goals.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:44:36.000
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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So the cool, interesting problem there
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:44:37.920
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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is us as human beings trying to formulate our values.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:44:40.520
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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So you could think of the United States Constitution as a way
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:44:47.040
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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that people sat down, at the time a bunch of white men,
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:44:51.360
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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which is a good example, I should say.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:44:56.680
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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They formulated the goals for this country.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:44:59.680
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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And a lot of people agree that those goals actually
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:45:01.480
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
held up pretty well.
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:45:03.760
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
That's an interesting formulation of values
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:45:05.360
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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and failed miserably in other ways.
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:45:07.160
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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So for the value alignment problem and the solution to it,
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:45:09.440
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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we have to be able to put on paper or in a program
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:45:13.320
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
human values.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:45:19.560
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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How difficult do you think that is?
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:45:20.400
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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Very.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:45:22.400
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
But it's so important.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:45:24.040
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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We really have to give it our best.
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:45:25.880
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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And it's difficult for two separate reasons.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:45:28.000
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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There's the technical value alignment problem
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:45:30.120
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
of figuring out just how to make machines understand our goals,
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:45:33.440
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
adopt them, and retain them.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:45:39.120
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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And then there's the separate part of it,
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:45:40.440
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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the philosophical part.
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:45:43.200
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
Whose values anyway?
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:45:44.200
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
And since it's not like we have any great consensus
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:45:45.920
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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on this planet on values, what mechanism should we
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:45:48.320
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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create then to aggregate and decide, OK,
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:45:52.040
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
what's a good compromise?
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:45:54.120
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
That second discussion can't just
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:45:56.520
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
be left to tech nerds like myself.
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:45:58.440
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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And if we refuse to talk about it and then AGI gets built,
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:46:01.560
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
who's going to be actually making
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:46:05.720
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
the decision about whose values?
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:46:07.160
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
It's going to be a bunch of dudes in some tech company.
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:46:08.480
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
And are they necessarily so representative of all
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:46:12.080
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
of humankind that we want to just entrust it to them?
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:46:17.240
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
Are they even uniquely qualified to speak
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:46:19.400
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
to future human happiness just because they're
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:46:23.000
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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good at programming AI?
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:46:25.240
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
I'd much rather have this be a really inclusive conversation.
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:46:26.480
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
But do you think it's possible?
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:46:30.200
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
So you create a beautiful vision that includes the diversity,
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:46:32.560
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
cultural diversity, and various perspectives on discussing
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:46:37.560
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
rights, freedoms, human dignity.
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:46:40.960
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
But how hard is it to come to that consensus?
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:46:43.600
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
Do you think it's certainly a really important thing
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:46:46.520
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
that we should all try to do?
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:46:50.400
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
But do you think it's feasible?
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:46:51.880
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
I think there's no better way to guarantee failure than to
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:46:54.240
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
refuse to talk about it or refuse to try.
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:47:00.160
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
And I also think it's a really bad strategy
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:47:02.840
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
to say, OK, let's first have a discussion for a long time.
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:47:05.320
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
And then once we reach complete consensus,
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:47:08.560
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
then we'll try to load it into some machine.
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:47:11.040
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
No, we shouldn't let perfect be the enemy of good.
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:47:13.360
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
Instead, we should start with the kindergarten ethics
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:47:16.560
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
that pretty much everybody agrees on
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:47:20.600
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
and put that into machines now.
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:47:22.120
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
We're not doing that even.
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:47:24.360
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
Look at anyone who builds this passenger aircraft,
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:47:25.880
|
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