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I know, but I'm sure we all know what it's like, you know? We have this refrigerator, then you have to kind of really dive in sometimes, to see what's at the back. | i know but i'm sure; we all know what. it's like you know? we have this refrigerator then you have to kind of really dive in, sometimes to see what's at the | I know but I'm sure we all. know what; it's like you know? We have this refrigerator then you have to kind, of really dive in sometimes to see what's at the | i know, but i'm sure we all know what it's like, you know? we have this refrigerator, then you have to kind of really dive in sometimes, to see what's at the back. |
Then there's those cocktail olives that have been there for decades. | then there's those cocktail. olives that have been there, for | Then, there's those cocktail olives that have been there for. | then there's those cocktail olives that have been there for decades. |
Exactly. | exactly. | ||
Growing up - we moved here from - I'm in Tucson and we lived in Mexico. And my mom would always buy things. And I'm blind, so I really didn't know about dates. But my sister would always comment and say, Mom, that, you know, that sell-by date is tomorrow. And my mom would say, oh, don't worry about it, that's for white... | growing up - we moved here from - i'm in tucson, and we lived in mexico and my mom would always buy things, and i'm blind so i really didn't know about dates but, my sister would always comment and say mom that you know that sell-by, date is tomorrow and my, mom would say oh, don't worry about it that's for white | Growing up - we moved here from - I'm in Tucson and we lived in Mexico And my mom would always buy things And I'm blind, so I really didn't know about dates But my sister would, always comment and say Mom. that you know that sell-by date is. tomorrow And my mom would say oh don't worry about it that's for white; | growing up - we moved here from - i'm in tucson and we lived in mexico. and my mom would always buy things. and i'm blind, so i really didn't know about dates. but my sister would always comment and say, mom, that, you know, that sell-by date is tomorrow. and my mom would say, oh, don't worry about it, that's for white... |
(Soundbite of laughter) | (soundbite of | (Soundbite of | (soundbite of laughter) |
So I can't tell you how much money, you know, raising three children in a - with a small amount of money and moving to a new country, how much money she was able to save. And we all ate and, you know, I hear a lot of people talk about food poisoning, and I don't know if that's just an American concept, you know, becaus... | so i can't tell, you how much money you know raising three children in a - with a small. amount of money and moving to a new country how much money she was; able to save and, we all ate and you, know, i hear a lot of people. talk about food poisoning and i. don't know if. that's just an american, concept you know | So I can't, tell you how much money you know. raising three children in a - with a small amount of money and moving to a new country how much money she was able to save And we all ate and, you know I hear a lot of people talk about food poisoning and I don't know if that's just an American concept you know, | so i can't tell you how much money, you know, raising three children in a - with a small amount of money and moving to a new country, how much money she was able to save. and we all ate and, you know, i hear a lot of people talk about food poisoning, and i don't know if that's just an american concept, you know, becaus... |
It's interesting, are there sell-by dates in other countries, Nadia, do you know? | it's, interesting are there sell-by dates. in other countries nadia do you | It's interesting are. there. sell-by dates in other. countries Nadia do you, | it's interesting, are there sell-by dates in other countries, nadia, do you know? |
There are, absolutely. And, you know, there are other parts of the world where they're much less of a sort of manufacturers' free-for-all. In the EU, there are - they are mandated... | there are. absolutely and you know there are other parts of the world where they're much less of a sort of. manufacturers' free-for-all in the eu there are, - they are | There. are absolutely And, you know there are other parts of the world where they're much less. of a sort of manufacturers' free-for-all In the EU. there are, - they are | there are, absolutely. and, you know, there are other parts of the world where they're much less of a sort of manufacturers' free-for-all. in the eu, there are - they are mandated... |
So these are all set by... | so these are all set | So these are all set | so these are all set by... |
...by the law. | ...by the | ...by the | ...by the law. |
...rule... | ...rule... | ||
Yes, exactly. | yes | Yes | yes, exactly. |
...by Brussels, yeah. | ...by brussels | ...by. Brussels | ...by brussels, yeah. |
And similarly in Australia. | and similarly in | And similarly, in | and similarly in australia. |
Hmm. All right. | hmm all | Hmm All | hmm. all right. |
...as well. | ...as | ...as | ...as well. |
Frank, thanks very much. | frank thanks very | Frank thanks very | frank, thanks very much. |
Yeah, sure. | yeah | Yeah | yeah, sure. |
And let's leave with this email from Dawn(ph). She writes, several years ago, I wrote to a major food distributor, asking if the expiration dates were printed on the can of food. I got a long letter back explaining the company's use of Julian dates, which were embedded in a string of numbers on the can and how to use t... | and let's leave with this email from dawn(ph). she writes several years ago i wrote to a major food distributor asking if the expiration dates were printed on the can of food i got a long letter back explaining the. company's. use of julian dates which were embedded in a string of numbers on the can and how. to use tho... | And let's leave with this email from Dawn(ph). She writes several years ago I wrote to a major food distributor asking. if the expiration dates were printed on the can of food I got a long letter back explaining the company's use of Julian dates which were embedded, in a string of numbers on the can. and, how to use th... | and let's leave with this email from dawn(ph). she writes, several years ago, i wrote to a major food distributor, asking if the expiration dates were printed on the can of food. i got a long letter back explaining the company's use of julian dates, which were embedded in a string of numbers on the can and how to use t... |
Our guest, Nadia Arumugam argues, well, they're all pretty much useless. Try your nose instead. | our. guest nadia arumugam argues well, they're all pretty much useless try your nose, | Our, guest Nadia Arumugam argues well they're. all pretty much useless Try your nose | our guest, nadia arumugam argues, well, they're all pretty much useless. try your nose instead. |
Absolutely. | absolutely. | ||
Nadia, thanks very much for being with us today. | nadia thanks very much, for being with us, | Nadia thanks. very much for being. with us | nadia, thanks very much for being with us today. |
Thank you for having me. | thank you for having | Thank you for having | thank you for having me. |
Nadia Arumugam is the author of the book "Chop, Sizzle and Stir" and a food writer for Slate, Easy Living and FLAVOURS magazines. She joined us from our bureau in New York. | nadia arumugam is the author of the book, "chop sizzle and stir" and a, food writer for slate easy living and flavours magazines she, joined us from our bureau in new. | Nadia Arumugam is the author of the book "Chop Sizzle and Stir" and a food writer for Slate Easy Living and FLAVOURS magazines She joined us from our bureau in New | nadia arumugam is the author of the book "chop, sizzle and stir" and a food writer for slate, easy living and flavours magazines. she joined us from our bureau in new york. |
Tomorrow, the Obama administration closes the books on the torture memos. John Yoo will be among our guests. This is TALK OF THE NATION from NPR News. I'm Neal Conan in Washington. | tomorrow the obama, administration closes the books on the torture memos john yoo will be among our guests this. is talk of the nation from npr news i'm neal conan in | Tomorrow the Obama administration closes the books on the torture memos John Yoo, will be among our, guests This is. TALK OF THE. NATION from NPR News I'm Neal Conan in | tomorrow, the obama administration closes the books on the torture memos. john yoo will be among our guests. this is talk of the nation from npr news. i'm neal conan in washington. |
In 1977. I was raised by my grandparents in England, and my grandfather was - my maternal grandfather was very political. It would always be politics in the house. But I chose an educational career of engineering. We joke to say most Kurds, we study engineering and end up in politics. | in 1977. i was raised by my grandparents in england and my grandfather was - my maternal grandfather was very political it would always be politics in the, house. but i chose an educational career of engineering we joke to say, most kurds we study engineering and end up in | In 1977. I was. raised by my. grandparents in England and my grandfather was - my maternal. grandfather was very political It would always be politics in; the house But I chose an educational career of engineering We joke, to say most Kurds we study engineering and end up in | in 1977. i was raised by my grandparents in england, and my grandfather was - my maternal grandfather was very political. it would always be politics in the house. but i chose an educational career of engineering. we joke to say most kurds, we study engineering and end up in politics. |
Cryer landed on CBS's "Two And A Half Men" in 2003. He played a straight-laced contractor, Alan Harper, forced to move in with his wealthy, hard-partying brother, played by hard-partying actor Charlie Sheen. At first, they worked well together. Sheen knew his lines, hit his marks and was a friend, despite his reputatio... | cryer landed on cbs's "two and a half men" in 2003. he played, a straight-laced contractor alan harper forced to move in with his wealthy hard-partying brother played by hard-partying actor charlie sheen at first they worked well together sheen knew his; lines hit, his marks and was a friend despite his, | Cryer landed on CBS's "Two And A, Half. Men" in 2003. He played. a straight-laced contractor Alan Harper forced to move in with his wealthy hard-partying brother, played by hard-partying actor Charlie Sheen At first they worked well together; Sheen knew his lines; hit his marks and was a friend despite. his | cryer landed on cbs's "two and a half men" in 2003. he played a straight-laced contractor, alan harper, forced to move in with his wealthy, hard-partying brother, played by hard-partying actor charlie sheen. at first, they worked well together. sheen knew his lines, hit his marks and was a friend, despite his reputatio... |
I got to know a very different guy than everybody expected. And, you know, I still wish that he wanted to be the sober guy who I worked with for five or six years. But I don't think he does anymore. | i got to know a very. different guy. than everybody expected. and you know i still, wish that he wanted to be the, sober guy who i worked with, for five or six years but i don't think he does | I got to know a very different guy than everybody expected And you know I still wish that he wanted, to. be the sober guy who I worked with for five or six years But I don't think he does | i got to know a very different guy than everybody expected. and, you know, i still wish that he wanted to be the sober guy who i worked with for five or six years. but i don't think he does anymore. |
Cryer writes that Sheen's addiction progressed. In early 2011, CBS put the show on hiatus after Sheen did a stint in rehab. Executive producer Chuck Lorre wanted Sheen to get more extensive treatment, Cryer writes. Instead, Sheen went on a radio show and lambasted Lorre. | cryer writes that sheen's addiction, progressed in early 2011, cbs put the show. on hiatus after sheen did a stint, in rehab executive producer chuck lorre wanted sheen to get more. extensive treatment cryer writes instead sheen went on a radio show and lambasted, | Cryer writes that Sheen's addiction progressed In early 2011, CBS put the show on hiatus after Sheen did a. stint in rehab Executive producer, Chuck Lorre wanted, Sheen to get more extensive; treatment Cryer writes Instead Sheen went on a radio show and. lambasted | cryer writes that sheen's addiction progressed. in early 2011, cbs put the show on hiatus after sheen did a stint in rehab. executive producer chuck lorre wanted sheen to get more extensive treatment, cryer writes. instead, sheen went on a radio show and lambasted lorre. |
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING) | (soundbite of archived | (SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED | (soundbite of archived recording) |
I've spent, I think, close to the last decade - I don't know - effortlessly and magically converting your tin cans into pure gold. And the gratitude I get in this - get is this charlatan chose not to do his job, which is to write. | i've spent i think, close to the; last decade - i don't know - effortlessly and, magically converting your tin cans into pure gold and the gratitude i get. in this - get is this charlatan chose. not to do his. job which is to | I've spent I think; close to the last decade - I don't know - effortlessly and magically converting your tin cans into. pure gold And the. gratitude I get in this - get is this charlatan, chose not. to do his job which is to | i've spent, i think, close to the last decade - i don't know - effortlessly and magically converting your tin cans into pure gold. and the gratitude i get in this - get is this charlatan chose not to do his job, which is to write. |
People would ask me so I'm sure that the feud between Charlie Sheen and your producer, Chuck Lorre, must've been going on behind the scenes for years. I had to show that no (laughter) that there was no feud. When it exploded the way it did with his anger at Chuck Lorre, we were all astonished. None of us saw it coming. | people would ask me so i'm sure that the feud between charlie sheen and your producer chuck lorre must've been going on behind the scenes for years i had to show. that no (laughter) that there was no feud, when it exploded the way it did with his anger at chuck lorre we were all astonished none of us saw it | People would, ask me so I'm sure that the feud between Charlie Sheen and your producer Chuck Lorre, must've been going on behind, the scenes for years I had to show that no (laughter) that there was no feud, When it exploded the way it did with his anger at Chuck Lorre we were all astonished None of us saw it | people would ask me so i'm sure that the feud between charlie sheen and your producer, chuck lorre, must've been going on behind the scenes for years. i had to show that no (laughter) that there was no feud. when it exploded the way it did with his anger at chuck lorre, we were all astonished. none of us saw it coming. |
Sheen was fired and "Two And A Half Men" went on successfully with Ashton Kutcher as Cryer's co-star. In February, CBS ended the show after 12 years. Like his best-known characters, Cryer stays sane in Hollywood with humor and a healthy sense of his own shortcomings, a handy trait for surviving three decades in one of ... | sheen was fired and "two and a half men" went; on successfully. with ashton kutcher as cryer's co-star in february cbs ended the show, after 12 years like his best-known. characters cryer stays sane in hollywood with humor and a healthy. sense of his own shortcomings a handy trait for. surviving, three decades in one o... | Sheen, was fired and "Two And. A Half Men" went on successfully with Ashton Kutcher as Cryer's co-star In February CBS ended the show after 12 years Like his, best-known characters Cryer stays sane in Hollywood. with humor and a. healthy sense of his own shortcomings a handy trait. for, surviving three decades in one o... | sheen was fired and "two and a half men" went on successfully with ashton kutcher as cryer's co-star. in february, cbs ended the show after 12 years. like his best-known characters, cryer stays sane in hollywood with humor and a healthy sense of his own shortcomings, a handy trait for surviving three decades in one of ... |
This is the day in 1960 when nine black teenagers sat down at a lunch counter in Chapel Hill, N.C. They asked to be served the same as white customers. They were not the first people to make this demand. Black students famously sat down at a Woolworth's in Greensboro a few weeks before, and their act added to the momen... | this is the. day in 1960 when nine black teenagers sat down at a lunch counter in chapel hill n.c they asked to be served the, same as white customers they were. not the first people to make this demand black students famously, sat down at a woolworth's in greensboro a few weeks. before and their act added to the momen... | This is the day in 1960 when nine black teenagers sat down at a lunch counter in Chapel Hill N.C They asked to be. served the same as white customers They were not the first people to make this demand Black students famously sat down at a Woolworth's in Greensboro a few weeks before and their act added. to the momentum... | this is the day in 1960 when nine black teenagers sat down at a lunch counter in chapel hill, n.c. they asked to be served the same as white customers. they were not the first people to make this demand. black students famously sat down at a woolworth's in greensboro a few weeks before, and their act added to the momen... |
The nine African-American teenage boys in Chapel Hill were tight growing up; they even had a club. Clyde Perry says they lived close to each other and went to the same school in the segregated town. | the, nine african-american teenage boys in chapel hill were tight growing up they even had a. club clyde perry; says they lived close to each other and went to the same school in the segregated, | The nine African-American. teenage boys in Chapel Hill were tight growing up they even had a club Clyde Perry says they lived close to each other and went to the same school in the segregated | the nine african-american teenage boys in chapel hill were tight growing up; they even had a club. clyde perry says they lived close to each other and went to the same school in the segregated town. |
The hospital was - had a black waiting room and a white waiting room. The bus station was the same thing, a black and white waiting room. I mean, you know, that's the way we were brought up. | the hospital was - had a black waiting room and a, white waiting room the bus station was the same thing a black, and white waiting room i mean you know that's the way we were brought | The hospital was - had a black, waiting room and. a white waiting room The bus station was the same thing a black and white waiting room I mean you know that's the way we were brought | the hospital was - had a black waiting room and a white waiting room. the bus station was the same thing, a black and white waiting room. i mean, you know, that's the way we were brought up. |
But Perry says, soon their lives changed forever. Four African-American male college students in Greensboro asked to be served at a Woolworth's counter on February 1, 1960. Four weeks later, the group known as the Chapel Hill Nine would do the same. | but perry says soon their lives changed forever four african-american male college, students in greensboro asked to, be served at. a woolworth's counter on february 1, 1960. four weeks later the group. known as the chapel hill, nine would do the | But Perry says soon their lives changed forever Four African-American male college students in Greensboro asked to be served at a Woolworth's counter on February. 1, 1960. Four weeks later the group known as the Chapel Hill Nine would do the | but perry says, soon their lives changed forever. four african-american male college students in greensboro asked to be served at a woolworth's counter on february 1, 1960. four weeks later, the group known as the chapel hill nine would do the same. |
Big John knew why we were there, I'm sure, 'cause he jumped on us right quick Get out; get out. Asked Jim - why are you sitting down? Get up, and get out. You know? He didn't. | big. john knew why we were there i'm sure 'cause he jumped on us right quick, get. out get out asked, jim - why are you sitting down? get, up and get out you know? he | Big John knew. why we were there I'm sure; 'cause he jumped. on us; right quick Get out get out Asked Jim - why are you sitting down? Get up. and get out You know? He | big john knew why we were there, i'm sure, 'cause he jumped on us right quick get out; get out. asked jim - why are you sitting down? get up, and get out. you know? he didn't. |
Despite demands to leave by John Carswell, or Big John, none of the teenagers got up from the counter at Colonial Drug. David Mason was 17 years old. | despite demands to leave by john carswell or big john. none. of the teenagers got, up from, the. counter at colonial. drug david; mason was 17 years | Despite demands to, leave by John Carswell, or Big John none, of the teenagers got up from the counter at Colonial Drug David Mason was 17 years | despite demands to leave by john carswell, or big john, none of the teenagers got up from the counter at colonial drug. david mason was 17 years old. |
My greatest fear was that I would not be able to restrain myself in case someone would spit on me. I think I could take a punch, but I could not take being spit on. | my greatest. fear was, that i would not be able to restrain myself in case someone would spit on. me i think i could take; a punch but, i could not take being spit, | My greatest fear was that I would not be able. to restrain myself in case someone would spit on me I think I, could take a punch but I could not take being spit | my greatest fear was that i would not be able to restrain myself in case someone would spit on me. i think i could take a punch, but i could not take being spit on. |
The police were called, and the nine boys were escorted out of the drug store and later charged with trespassing. And so began acts of civil disobedience in Chapel Hill. | the police were, called and the nine boys were escorted out of the drug. store and later charged with trespassing and so began acts of civil disobedience in chapel | The police were called and the nine boys were escorted out of the drug store and later charged with trespassing, And so began acts of civil disobedience in Chapel | the police were called, and the nine boys were escorted out of the drug store and later charged with trespassing. and so began acts of civil disobedience in chapel hill. |
We're just so proud of our young men - who are older men now - but very proud of the steps they took and how brave they were. | we're just so proud of our young men - who are, older men now - but very proud of the steps they took and how brave they | We're just so proud of our young men - who are. older men now - but very proud of the steps they took and how brave they | we're just so proud of our young men - who are older men now - but very proud of the steps they took and how brave they were. |
Pam Hemminger is the mayor of Chapel Hill. She formed a task force to help begin documenting the town's civil rights history, and one of those things is at the local library. | pam hemminger is the. mayor of chapel hill she formed a task force to help begin. documenting, the town's civil rights, history and one of those things is; at the local | Pam. Hemminger is the mayor of Chapel Hill She, formed a task force to, help begin documenting the, town's civil rights history and one, of those things is at, the local | pam hemminger is the mayor of chapel hill. she formed a task force to help begin documenting the town's civil rights history, and one of those things is at the local library. |
And I think I've got a big enough table for it. We'll find out. | and i think i've got a big enough table. for it we'll. find | And I think I've got a big enough table for it We'll find | and i think i've got a big enough table for it. we'll find out. |
Molly Luby rolls out an 11-foot-long banner. Organizations can borrow from the library to display the town's civil rights timeline. Luby says it's a big hit. | molly luby rolls out an 11-foot-long banner organizations can borrow from the library to, display the town's civil rights timeline luby says it's, a big | Molly Luby rolls, out an 11-foot-long banner. Organizations can borrow from. the, library to display the town's civil rights timeline Luby says it's a big | molly luby rolls out an 11-foot-long banner. organizations can borrow from the library to display the town's civil rights timeline. luby says it's a big hit. |
Every time we bring out this timeline and our living members of the Chapel Hill Nine are there, there are standing ovations. These guys are the rock stars of Chapel Hill right now, and I'm so happy. | every time we bring out this timeline and our living members of the chapel hill nine are there there are, standing ovations these guys are the rock stars of chapel hill; right now and i'm, so | Every time we bring out this timeline and our living members of the Chapel Hill Nine are there there are standing ovations These guys are the rock stars of Chapel Hill right now and I'm so | every time we bring out this timeline and our living members of the chapel hill nine are there, there are standing ovations. these guys are the rock stars of chapel hill right now, and i'm so happy. |
There are even Chapel Hill civil rights trading cards. If you ask the four living members of the Chapel Hill Nine if they are heroes or rock stars, they say no. Mason says it was just something they had to do. | there are even chapel hill civil rights trading cards if you. ask the, four, living members of the. chapel hill nine if they are heroes or rock stars they say no mason says, it was just something, they had to | There are even Chapel Hill civil rights trading cards If you ask the four living members of the Chapel; Hill. Nine if they, are heroes or rock stars they say no Mason says it was, just. something. they had to | there are even chapel hill civil rights trading cards. if you ask the four living members of the chapel hill nine if they are heroes or rock stars, they say no. mason says it was just something they had to do. |
Our objective was to right a wrong. And we were quite determined to do that, whatever the consequences might be. | our objective was. to right. a wrong and we were quite determined to do that whatever the consequences might | Our objective was to right a wrong And we were quite determined to do that whatever the consequences might | our objective was to right a wrong. and we were quite determined to do that, whatever the consequences might be. |
Colonial Drug is no longer a business on West Franklin Street. The spot where the Chapel Hill Nine took a seat is now a wine bar. | colonial, drug is no longer a business on west franklin street the spot where the chapel. hill nine took a. seat is now a wine | Colonial Drug. is no longer a business. on West Franklin Street The spot where the Chapel Hill Nine took a seat, is now a wine | colonial drug is no longer a business on west franklin street. the spot where the chapel hill nine took a seat is now a wine bar. |
You not a wine bar type of guy? I don't know. | you not a wine bar type of guy? i don't | You not a wine bar, type of guy? I don't | you not a wine bar type of guy? i don't know. |
No. | no. | ||
My days of wine and roses are long behind me. | my days of. wine and roses are long behind | My days of wine and roses are long behind | my days of wine and roses are long behind me. |
(LAUGHTER) | (laughter) | ||
Three of the four men said they hadn't visited the site in 50 years or more, vowing to never come back after being turned away. But that may change. A crowd is expected today to celebrate where a Chapel Hill Nine marker will be erected. One suggestion is a bench so they can sit down. | three of the four men said they hadn't visited the site in 50 years, or more vowing to never come back after being turned away but that may change a crowd is expected today to, celebrate where; a chapel hill nine marker will be erected one suggestion; is. a bench, so they can sit | Three of the, four men said they, hadn't visited the site in 50 years or more vowing to never come, back after being turned away But that may change A crowd is expected today to celebrate, where a Chapel Hill Nine marker will be; erected. One suggestion, is a bench so they can sit | three of the four men said they hadn't visited the site in 50 years or more, vowing to never come back after being turned away. but that may change. a crowd is expected today to celebrate where a chapel hill nine marker will be erected. one suggestion is a bench so they can sit down. |
For NPR News, I'm Leoneda Inge in Chapel Hill, N.C. | for npr news i'm leoneda inge in chapel, hill | For NPR News I'm Leoneda Inge in. Chapel Hill. | for npr news, i'm leoneda inge in chapel hill, n.c. |
This is TALK OF THE NATION. I'm Neal Conan in Washington. If the threat of prison is supposed to deter crime, it's not working; record numbers are behind bars. And while all those bad actors off the street may contribute to lower crime rates in recent years, many believe there have to be better ways. | this is, talk of the. nation i'm neal conan in washington if the threat of prison is, supposed to deter crime it's not. working record numbers are behind bars and while all those bad actors off the. street may contribute to lower crime, rates in. recent years many believe there have to. be better | This is; TALK OF THE. NATION I'm Neal Conan in. Washington If the. threat of prison is supposed to deter crime it's not working, record numbers are behind bars And while all those bad actors off the street, may. contribute to lower crime rates in recent years many believe there have to be better | this is talk of the nation. i'm neal conan in washington. if the threat of prison is supposed to deter crime, it's not working; record numbers are behind bars. and while all those bad actors off the street may contribute to lower crime rates in recent years, many believe there have to be better ways. |
Today we'll focus on two ideas to offer kids and nonviolent offenders a second chance, and they're not just theories. Criminologist David Kennedy and Judge Steve Teske tried out their ideas on the streets and in the courts. Now others are trying them, too. Details in a moment, but we want to hear from those of you with... | today we'll focus on two ideas to offer kids and nonviolent offenders a second chance; and they're not just theories criminologist david kennedy and judge steve teske tried out their ideas on the streets and in the courts now others are trying them too details in a moment, but we want to hear from those of you with exp... | Today we'll focus on two ideas to offer kids and nonviolent offenders a second chance, and they're not just theories Criminologist David Kennedy and Judge, Steve Teske tried out. their ideas on the streets and in the courts Now others are trying them, too Details in a moment but we want to hear from those of you with e... | today we'll focus on two ideas to offer kids and nonviolent offenders a second chance, and they're not just theories. criminologist david kennedy and judge steve teske tried out their ideas on the streets and in the courts. now others are trying them, too. details in a moment, but we want to hear from those of you with... |
So you think it's possible to pick which ones... | so you think it's possible to pick which | So you think it's possible to pick, which; | so you think it's possible to pick which ones... |
This is Talk of the Nation. I'm Joe Palca in Washington. What makes humans unique is our passion to explore, whether it's sailing to discover the New World, racing to the South Pole, or being the first to land on the moon. Sometimes, though, that passion borders on an obsession - explorers willing to risk not only thei... | this is talk of the nation i'm joe palca in washington what, makes humans unique is our passion to. explore whether it's sailing to discover the new world racing to the south pole or being the first, to land on the moon. sometimes though that passion borders on an obsession - explorers willing to risk not only their ow... | This is, Talk of the Nation I'm Joe Palca in Washington What makes humans unique is our passion to explore whether. it's. sailing to discover, the New World racing to, the South Pole or being the first to land on the moon Sometimes though that passion borders on an obsession - explorers willing to risk not only their. ... | this is talk of the nation. i'm joe palca in washington. what makes humans unique is our passion to explore, whether it's sailing to discover the new world, racing to the south pole, or being the first to land on the moon. sometimes, though, that passion borders on an obsession - explorers willing to risk not only thei... |
This hour, we want to hear from you explorers in our audience. Have you taken a trip to the South Pole, to Everest or K2, to the heart of the Amazon? Tell us why you did it. Our number here in Washington is 800-989-8255. Our email address is talk@npr.org. And you can join the conversation at our Web site. Go to npr.org... | this hour we want to hear from you explorers in our. audience have you taken a. trip to the, south. pole to everest or k2, to the heart of the amazon? tell us why you did; it our number here in washington, is 800-989-8255. our email address is talk@npr.org and, you can join the conversation at our web site go to npr.or... | This hour we want to hear from you explorers in our audience, Have you taken a trip to the South Pole to. Everest or K2, to the heart of the Amazon? Tell us why you did it Our number here in Washington is 800-989-8255. Our email address is talk@npr.org And. you can join the conversation at our Web site Go, to npr.org a... | this hour, we want to hear from you explorers in our audience. have you taken a trip to the south pole, to everest or k2, to the heart of the amazon? tell us why you did it. our number here in washington is 800-989-8255. our email address is talk@npr.org. and you can join the conversation at our web site. go to npr.org... |
Later this hour, race and comedy. We'll talk with the senior black correspondent for the Daily Show. But first, "The Lost City of Z." David Grann is a staff writer for the New Yorker magazine, and the author of "The Lost City of Z: A Tale of Deadly Obsession in the Amazon," and he joins me now in Studio 3A. It's good t... | later this hour race and comedy we'll talk, with the senior black correspondent. for the daily show but first "the lost city of. z" david grann is a staff writer for the new yorker magazine and the author of "the lost city of z: a tale of deadly obsession in the amazon" and he joins, me, now in studio 3a it's good to h... | Later this hour race and; comedy We'll talk with the senior black correspondent for the Daily Show But, first. "The Lost City of Z" David Grann is a staff writer for the New; Yorker magazine and the author of "The Lost City of, Z: A Tale of Deadly Obsession in the Amazon" and he joins me now in Studio; 3A It's good. to... | later this hour, race and comedy. we'll talk with the senior black correspondent for the daily show. but first, "the lost city of z." david grann is a staff writer for the new yorker magazine, and the author of "the lost city of z: a tale of deadly obsession in the amazon," and he joins me now in studio 3a. it's good t... |
Well, thank you so much for having me. | well, thank you so much; for having | Well thank you so much for having | well, thank you so much for having me. |
So, OK. First thing we have to know - Percy Fawcett - Percy Harrison Fawcett was obsessed with the Lost City of Z. What was it? What is that place? | so ok first thing we have to know - percy, fawcett - percy harrison fawcett was obsessed with the lost city of z what was it? what is that | So, OK First thing we have to know - Percy Fawcett - Percy Harrison Fawcett was obsessed with. the Lost; City of Z What was it? What is, that | so, ok. first thing we have to know - percy fawcett - percy harrison fawcett was obsessed with the lost city of z. what was it? what is that place? |
Fawcett had begun doing explorations in the Amazon in 1906, and he mapped the interior of the jungle over a period of about - nearly two decades. And during that time, he began to collect bits of evidence, clues that he believed indicated that the Amazonian jungle had contained remnants of a great ancient civilization.... | fawcett had begun, doing explorations in the amazon in 1906, and he mapped; the interior of the. jungle over a period of about - nearly two decades and during, that time he began, to collect bits of evidence clues that he believed. indicated that the amazonian jungle had contained remnants of a great ancient civilizati... | Fawcett had begun doing explorations in the Amazon in 1906, and he mapped. the interior of. the jungle over a period of about - nearly two decades; And. during that time he. began to collect bits of evidence clues that he believed indicated that the. Amazonian jungle had contained remnants of a great ancient civilizati... | fawcett had begun doing explorations in the amazon in 1906, and he mapped the interior of the jungle over a period of about - nearly two decades. and during that time, he began to collect bits of evidence, clues that he believed indicated that the amazonian jungle had contained remnants of a great ancient civilization.... |
Mm-hmm. And was El Dorado - what was El Dorado? Was it a European invention or a Native South American invention? | mm-hmm and was el dorado - what was el dorado? was it a european invention or a. native south american | Mm-hmm And was El Dorado - what was El Dorado? Was, it a European invention or a Native; South American | mm-hmm. and was el dorado - what was el dorado? was it a european invention or a native south american invention? |
One thing that's really important to understand is that the Amazon is just an enormously vast wilderness. It's about the size of the continental United States. And for ages, it really remained the kind of last blank space on the map, just because it was so impenetrable. And the first conquistadors who arrived in the Am... | one thing that's really important to understand is that the amazon is just an enormously vast, wilderness it's about the size of the continental united states and for ages it really remained the kind of last blank space on the map just because it was so impenetrable and the first conquistadors who arrived in the amazon... | One thing that's really. important to understand is that the Amazon is just an enormously vast wilderness It's, about the, size of the continental United States And for ages it; really remained the kind of last blank, space on the map just because. it was so impenetrable And the first conquistadors who arrived in the A... | one thing that's really important to understand is that the amazon is just an enormously vast wilderness. it's about the size of the continental united states. and for ages, it really remained the kind of last blank space on the map, just because it was so impenetrable. and the first conquistadors who arrived in the am... |
Wow. | wow. | ||
And it was always assumed - going to back to your question - it was always assumed that El Dorado was really just a product of the imagination of the - basically, a delusion. After three centuries of so many people dying and suffering and finding no evidence, people assumed it really was a figment of the imagination. A... | and it was always assumed - going to back to your question - it was, always assumed that el dorado was really just a product of the imagination; of the - basically a delusion after three centuries, of so many people dying and. suffering and finding no evidence people assumed it really was a figment of the imagination a... | And it was, always assumed - going. to back. to your. question, - it was always, assumed that El Dorado was really just a product of the imagination of the - basically a delusion After three. centuries of so many people dying and suffering, and finding no evidence people assumed it really was a figment; of the imaginat... | and it was always assumed - going to back to your question - it was always assumed that el dorado was really just a product of the imagination of the - basically, a delusion. after three centuries of so many people dying and suffering and finding no evidence, people assumed it really was a figment of the imagination. a... |
So, why do people think - or why did Fawcett's attempt - attempts to find El Dorado - they got further than some, but obviously they didn't get to the very conclusion. | so; why do people think - or why, did fawcett's attempt. - attempts to find el dorado - they got further than some but obviously they didn't get to the very | So why do people think - or why did Fawcett's attempt - attempts to find El Dorado - they got further, than. some but obviously they didn't get to the very | so, why do people think - or why did fawcett's attempt - attempts to find el dorado - they got further than some, but obviously they didn't get to the very conclusion. |
Yeah, I mean Fawcett, unlike the conquistadors, he had been trained at the Royal Geographical Society; he had a scientific bent. Now, he was an amateur. This was still an age where there really weren't too many professional archaeologists or anthropologists. He came of age as an amateur, but he was trained at the Royal... | yeah i mean fawcett unlike, the conquistadors he, had been trained at the royal geographical society he had a scientific bent now he was an amateur this was still an age where there really weren't too many, professional, archaeologists or anthropologists he came of age as, an amateur but he. was trained at the royal ge... | Yeah. I mean Fawcett unlike the, conquistadors; he had been trained at the Royal Geographical Society he had a scientific bent Now he was an amateur This was still. an age, where there really weren't too many professional archaeologists or anthropologists, He came of age as an amateur but he was trained at the Royal Ge... | yeah, i mean fawcett, unlike the conquistadors, he had been trained at the royal geographical society; he had a scientific bent. now, he was an amateur. this was still an age where there really weren't too many professional archaeologists or anthropologists. he came of age as an amateur, but he was trained at the royal... |
And during his expeditions, he had a more rigorous method in trying to gather evidence. So he - for example, he was once in the Bolivian floodplains of the Amazon, and he had climbed these large earth mounds. And when he was at the top of the earth mounds, he began to - he saw something sticking out of the ground. He b... | and during, his expeditions he had a more rigorous method in trying to gather evidence so he - for example he was. once in the bolivian floodplains of the amazon and he had climbed these large earth mounds and when he. was at the top of the earth mounds he began, to - he saw something, sticking out of the ground he ben... | And during his expeditions he had a more rigorous method in trying to gather evidence, So he - for example he, was once in the Bolivian floodplains of. the Amazon and he had climbed. these large, earth mounds. And when he was at the; top of. the earth mounds, he began to - he saw, something sticking out of the ground H... | and during his expeditions, he had a more rigorous method in trying to gather evidence. so he - for example, he was once in the bolivian floodplains of the amazon, and he had climbed these large earth mounds. and when he was at the top of the earth mounds, he began to - he saw something sticking out of the ground. he b... |
And he began to scratch everywhere along the soil, and he found all these shards of pottery. Now, it was an era before there was carbon dating, so he couldn't say its age, but it looked very old, and it looked to him as refined as something from Greece. So, there were clues like this. So his methodology - unlike the co... | and he began to scratch everywhere along the, soil and he found all these shards of pottery now it was an era before there was. carbon dating so he couldn't say its age but it looked very old and it looked to him as refined as something from. greece so there, were clues. like this so his methodology - unlike the conqui... | And he began to. scratch everywhere along the. soil and, he found all these shards of pottery, Now it was an era before. there was carbon dating so he couldn't say its age but it looked very old and it looked to him. as refined as something from Greece So there were clues like this So his methodology - unlike the conqu... | and he began to scratch everywhere along the soil, and he found all these shards of pottery. now, it was an era before there was carbon dating, so he couldn't say its age, but it looked very old, and it looked to him as refined as something from greece. so, there were clues like this. so his methodology - unlike the co... |
Right, right. And he was a remarkable explorer in his own right. I mean, he had some fantastic physical abilities, at least as you describe them in the book. | right right and he was a remarkable explorer in his own right i mean he had some fantastic physical abilities at least as you describe them in the | Right right And he was a remarkable explorer in his, own right I. mean, he had some fantastic physical abilities at least as you. describe, them in the | right, right. and he was a remarkable explorer in his own right. i mean, he had some fantastic physical abilities, at least as you describe them in the book. |
Yeah, I mean, he was - Fawcett - he was a large, strapping figure, and he would go on these expeditions over these nearly two decades, and he would take very small parties of about a dozen men. He would go into areas where expeditions did not come back from. They had almost no immunities from diseases, so they would ge... | yeah i mean he was - fawcett - he was a large strapping figure and he would, go on these expeditions over these nearly two decades and he would take very small parties of about a dozen men he would go into areas where expeditions did not come back from they had almost; no immunities from diseases so they would get mala... | Yeah I. mean he was - Fawcett - he. was a large strapping figure and he would go on these expeditions over these nearly two decades and he would take very small parties of about a dozen men He would go into areas where expeditions did not come back from They had. almost no immunities; from diseases so they would get ma... | yeah, i mean, he was - fawcett - he was a large, strapping figure, and he would go on these expeditions over these nearly two decades, and he would take very small parties of about a dozen men. he would go into areas where expeditions did not come back from. they had almost no immunities from diseases, so they would ge... |
Well, we'd like to hear your thoughts on this kind of exploration. Give us a call at 1-800-989-8255. And let's take a call now from Marty in St. Louis, Missouri. Welcome to Talk of the Nation. | well we'd like to hear your thoughts on this kind of exploration give us a call at 1-800-989-8255. and let's take a call now from marty in st louis missouri welcome to talk of. the | Well we'd like to hear your, thoughts on this kind of exploration Give us a, call at 1-800-989-8255. And let's take a call now, from Marty, in St Louis Missouri Welcome to Talk of the | well, we'd like to hear your thoughts on this kind of exploration. give us a call at 1-800-989-8255. and let's take a call now from marty in st. louis, missouri. welcome to talk of the nation. |
Hi. | hi. | ||
Hi. | hi. | ||
Good afternoon. | good | Good | good afternoon. |
You're wel - hi. | you're wel | You're wel | you're wel - hi. |
Hi. | hi. | ||
Go ahead. You're on the air. | go. ahead, you're on the | Go ahead. You're on the | go ahead. you're on the air. |
Hi. Yeah, I've traveled to the Amazon as well - three times. I'm a physician, and I've gone on medical missions. And what I've found was that it was - there was like time travel in that these folks - I was in the Amazon Basin, treating Yanomami and Yaguani Indians, and they're quite literally still hunting and gatherin... | hi yeah i've traveled to the amazon as well - three times i'm a physician and i've gone on medical missions and what, i've found was that it was - there, was like time travel in that these folks - i was in, the amazon basin. treating yanomami and yaguani indians and they're quite literally still hunting and gathering t... | Hi Yeah I've traveled to the Amazon as well - three times I'm a physician and I've gone on medical missions And what I've found was that. it was - there was like time, travel in that these folks - I was in. the Amazon Basin treating Yanomami and Yaguani Indians. and they're quite literally still hunting and gathering T... | hi. yeah, i've traveled to the amazon as well - three times. i'm a physician, and i've gone on medical missions. and what i've found was that it was - there was like time travel in that these folks - i was in the amazon basin, treating yanomami and yaguani indians, and they're quite literally still hunting and gatherin... |
Interesting. Thanks for that, Marty. In the book, David, you talk - I mean, I want to come back to the reasons you went on this trip, but you went - how did it feel to you, as an urban sophisticate and a New Yorker writer, to be sitting in - with the - not far from the - did you see the Yanomami? | interesting thanks for that marty in the book david you. talk - i mean i want to, come back to the reasons you went on this trip but you went - how did it feel to. you as an urban sophisticate and a new yorker. writer to be sitting in - with the - not far. from, the - did you see the | Interesting Thanks for that Marty In the book David you, talk - I mean I want to, come back; to the, reasons you, went on this trip but you went - how did it feel to you as an urban sophisticate and. a, New Yorker writer to be sitting in - with the - not far from the - did you see the | interesting. thanks for that, marty. in the book, david, you talk - i mean, i want to come back to the reasons you went on this trip, but you went - how did it feel to you, as an urban sophisticate and a new yorker writer, to be sitting in - with the - not far from the - did you see the yanomami? |
No. We didn't see the Yano… | no we didn't see the, | No We didn't see the | no. we didn't see the yano… |
You didn't see them. | you didn't see | You didn't see, | you didn't see them. |
We were further south. | we were; further | We were further | we were further south. |
Right. | right. | ||
We were in the southern basin of the Amazon, so it was really the Xingu area. And I met with a lot of the Xinguano tribes - the Kalapalo, the Kuikuru. We stayed with the Baikari Indians. And as I say in the book, and if anyone could see me right now, they would know I am the least likely explorer in the history of man… | we, were in the southern basin of the amazon so it was really the xingu area and, i. met with a lot of the xinguano tribes - the kalapalo the kuikuru we stayed with the baikari indians and as i say in the book and if anyone could, see me right now they would know i am the least likely explorer in the history of | We were in the southern basin of the Amazon so it was really. the Xingu area And I met with a lot, of the Xinguano tribes - the, Kalapalo the Kuikuru We. stayed. with the. Baikari Indians And as, I say in the book and if anyone, could see, me right now they would know I am. the least likely, explorer in the history of | we were in the southern basin of the amazon, so it was really the xingu area. and i met with a lot of the xinguano tribes - the kalapalo, the kuikuru. we stayed with the baikari indians. and as i say in the book, and if anyone could see me right now, they would know i am the least likely explorer in the history of man… |
Yes, Crocodile Dundee does not come to mind. | yes crocodile dundee does not come to | Yes Crocodile Dundee does not come, to | yes, crocodile dundee does not come to mind. |
(Soundbite of laughter) | (soundbite of | (Soundbite of | (soundbite of laughter) |
No. I'm a bit overweight, a bit out of shape, and I have keritakonis, which is a degenerative eye condition. It makes it very hard to see at night. I tend to get lost even going to the New Yorker office in Manhattan, riding my subway. And so, this really became something of an obsession for me to try to solve this myst... | no i'm a bit overweight a, bit; out of shape and. i have keritakonis. which is a degenerative. eye condition it makes it very hard to see at night i tend to get lost even going to the new yorker office, in manhattan riding my subway and so this really became something of an. obsession for me to try to solve this myster... | No I'm a bit overweight a bit out, of shape and I have keritakonis which is a degenerative eye condition It makes it. very. hard to see at night I tend. to get lost even going to the New Yorker office; in, Manhattan riding. my subway, And so this really became something of an obsession for me. to try to solve this myst... | no. i'm a bit overweight, a bit out of shape, and i have keritakonis, which is a degenerative eye condition. it makes it very hard to see at night. i tend to get lost even going to the new yorker office in manhattan, riding my subway. and so, this really became something of an obsession for me to try to solve this myst... |
Well, let me ask you. Did your own - I mean, you speak about how you were attracted to Fawcett. Did your fascination with Fawcett help you understand his fascination with arriving at the city - the Lost City of Z? | well, let me ask you did your own - i mean you. speak about how you were attracted to fawcett, did your fascination with fawcett help you understand his fascination with. arriving at the city - the lost city of | Well let me ask you Did your own - I mean you speak about how you were attracted to Fawcett Did your fascination with Fawcett, help. you understand his fascination with arriving at the city - the Lost City of, | well, let me ask you. did your own - i mean, you speak about how you were attracted to fawcett. did your fascination with fawcett help you understand his fascination with arriving at the city - the lost city of z? |
You know, in many ways, Fawcett often felt like my Z. And, you know, for me, I'm a writer, and I wanted to tell Fawcett's biography, and I wanted to know everything about him. I wanted to know not just kind of how he died, but I also wanted to know the mystery of his life. And so, my quest was to try to always find eve... | you know in many ways fawcett, often felt like my z and you know for me i'm. a writer and i wanted to tell fawcett's biography and i wanted to know everything about him i wanted to know not just kind of how he. died but i also wanted to, know. the mystery of his; life and so my. quest was to try to. always find every l... | You know in many ways Fawcett often felt like my Z And you know for me I'm a, writer and I wanted to tell Fawcett's biography and I wanted to know everything about him. I wanted to know not just kind of how he died but I also wanted to know the mystery of his life. And so my quest was to try to always find every little... | you know, in many ways, fawcett often felt like my z. and, you know, for me, i'm a writer, and i wanted to tell fawcett's biography, and i wanted to know everything about him. i wanted to know not just kind of how he died, but i also wanted to know the mystery of his life. and so, my quest was to try to always find eve... |
Right. Let's take another call now and go to Graham in Cleveland, Ohio. Welcome to the program. | right let's take another call, now and go, to graham in. cleveland ohio welcome to the. | Right, Let's. take another call, now and go to. Graham in Cleveland. Ohio Welcome. to the | right. let's take another call now and go to graham in cleveland, ohio. welcome to the program. |
Thanks so much for having me on. First off, I want to applaud your guest's spirit of adventure. | thanks so much for having me on first off i want to applaud your guest's spirit of | Thanks so. much for having. me on First off I want to applaud your guest's spirit of | thanks so much for having me on. first off, i want to applaud your guest's spirit of adventure. |
Thank you. | thank | Thank | thank you. |
Well, you know, I've done some adventures. I'm part of an adventure team called the Nystad-Vezy(ph) Adventure Team, and we've done Kilimanjaro in Africa and Aconcagua down in Argentina, and just finished an adventure race in the north of England. And you - yeah, you definitely can't help but realize that the experience... | well you know i've done some adventures i'm part of an adventure team called the nystad-vezy(ph) adventure team and we've done kilimanjaro in, africa and aconcagua down in argentina and just finished an adventure race in the north of england and you - yeah you definitely can't help but realize that the experience is wh... | Well you know I've done some adventures I'm, part of an adventure team called the Nystad-Vezy(ph) Adventure Team; and, we've done Kilimanjaro in Africa and Aconcagua down in Argentina and just finished an adventure race in the north of England And you - yeah you, definitely can't help but realize that the experience is... | well, you know, i've done some adventures. i'm part of an adventure team called the nystad-vezy(ph) adventure team, and we've done kilimanjaro in africa and aconcagua down in argentina, and just finished an adventure race in the north of england. and you - yeah, you definitely can't help but realize that the experience... |
Graham, I want to ask you. Have you ever gotten - in these adventures you're describing, have you ever felt like, you know, you might have taken one step too far? | graham i. want to ask you have, you ever, gotten - in. these adventures you're describing. have you ever felt like you know you might have taken one step too | Graham, I want to ask you Have you, ever gotten - in. these adventures you're describing have you ever felt like you know you, might have taken one step too. | graham, i want to ask you. have you ever gotten - in these adventures you're describing, have you ever felt like, you know, you might have taken one step too far? |
Yes, and I think that's the part that reminds you that you're alive, because you're up there and - you know, a recent adventure was up on top of Aconcagua, and a snowstorm came up. And you're at 22,800 feet, and you realize that you're completely alone and you don't have a telephone to rely on or a guide, if you've cho... | yes and i think that's the part that reminds you that you're alive because you're up there. and - you know a, recent adventure was. up on top of aconcagua and a snowstorm came up and you're at, 22,800 feet. and. you realize that you're completely alone and you don't have a; telephone to, rely on or. a, guide if you've ... | Yes and I think that's the part that reminds you that you're alive because you're up there and - you know a recent adventure was, up on top of Aconcagua and a, snowstorm came up And. you're at 22,800 feet and you realize that you're completely alone and you don't have a. telephone to rely on or a guide if you've chosen... | yes, and i think that's the part that reminds you that you're alive, because you're up there and - you know, a recent adventure was up on top of aconcagua, and a snowstorm came up. and you're at 22,800 feet, and you realize that you're completely alone and you don't have a telephone to rely on or a guide, if you've cho... |
Yeah. | yeah. |
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