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quablab
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how-i-build-this-coded

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And do you guys remember that summer, right? Um, I don't know. Were you... I mean, d- w- did the ties, just, like, the cash from the ties enable you guys to eat and live and, and do what you need to do w- on Martha's Vineyard?
customer: And- agent: I mean, right customer: ... so right then and there we saw, wow, um, there's a, there is a way to amplify what we're doing and to do that for free if you're clever.
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I think what we did is we've always, since day one, reinvested it. But what we did do was, you know, we did have this shitty old boat, and we put our logo on that. We put the logo on our Jeeps, and then we, uh, played guitar and sang, uh, at night in the bars there wearing our ties. So every single thing that we could ...
agent: I mean, right customer: ... so right then and there we saw, wow, um, there's a, there is a way to amplify what we're doing and to do that for free if you're clever. agent: And do you guys remember that summer, right? Um, I don't know. Were you... I mean, d- w- did the ties, just, like, the cash from the ties ena...
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Yeah.
customer: ... so right then and there we saw, wow, um, there's a, there is a way to amplify what we're doing and to do that for free if you're clever. agent: And do you guys remember that summer, right? Um, I don't know. Were you... I mean, d- w- did the ties, just, like, the cash from the ties enable you guys to eat a...
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And when someone... You know, we're out on our boat one day and someone said, "I just bought two ties," we're like, "Thank you for the gas for our boat."
agent: And do you guys remember that summer, right? Um, I don't know. Were you... I mean, d- w- did the ties, just, like, the cash from the ties enable you guys to eat and live and, and do what you need to do w- on Martha's Vineyard? customer: I think what we did is we've always, since day one, reinvested it. But what ...
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Yeah. There's a, a photograph of the two of you guys in a Jeep Wrangler, very young, in shorts, so it's gotta be the summer, wearing a button-down shirt and ties, and so that was your look. Like, you guys would be wearing shorts-
customer: I think what we did is we've always, since day one, reinvested it. But what we did do was, you know, we did have this shitty old boat, and we put our logo on that. We put the logo on our Jeeps, and then we, uh, played guitar and sang, uh, at night in the bars there wearing our ties. So every single thing that...
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Everywhere we went
agent: Yeah. customer: And when someone... You know, we're out on our boat one day and someone said, "I just bought two ties," we're like, "Thank you for the gas for our boat." agent: Yeah. There's a, a photograph of the two of you guys in a Jeep Wrangler, very young, in shorts, so it's gotta be the summer, wearing a b...
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... right, shorts, a button-down white shirt, and your ties.
customer: And when someone... You know, we're out on our boat one day and someone said, "I just bought two ties," we're like, "Thank you for the gas for our boat." agent: Yeah. There's a, a photograph of the two of you guys in a Jeep Wrangler, very young, in shorts, so it's gotta be the summer, wearing a button-down sh...
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Yep, always.
agent: Yeah. There's a, a photograph of the two of you guys in a Jeep Wrangler, very young, in shorts, so it's gotta be the summer, wearing a button-down shirt and ties, and so that was your look. Like, you guys would be wearing shorts- customer: Everywhere we went agent: ... right, shorts, a button-down white shirt, a...
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And did people think you were, like... [laughs] God. I mean, did it look out of place? Did, did, did... Or was it just, like, a preppy look? I mean-
customer: Everywhere we went agent: ... right, shorts, a button-down white shirt, and your ties. customer: Yep, always.
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It-
agent: ... right, shorts, a button-down white shirt, and your ties. customer: Yep, always. agent: And did people think you were, like... [laughs] God. I mean, did it look out of place? Did, did, did... Or was it just, like, a preppy look? I mean-
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Yeah
customer: Yep, always. agent: And did people think you were, like... [laughs] God. I mean, did it look out of place? Did, did, did... Or was it just, like, a preppy look? I mean- customer: It-
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... the answer is yes to all the above.
agent: And did people think you were, like... [laughs] God. I mean, did it look out of place? Did, did, did... Or was it just, like, a preppy look? I mean- customer: It- agent: Yeah
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Yeah.
customer: It- agent: Yeah customer: ... the answer is yes to all the above.
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But it was great because it would immediately start with, "Why are you wearing that?"
agent: Yeah customer: ... the answer is yes to all the above. agent: Yeah.
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Yeah, why are you wearing a tie? It's the summer. Yeah.
customer: ... the answer is yes to all the above. agent: Yeah. customer: But it was great because it would immediately start with, "Why are you wearing that?"
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"I'm s- I'm so glad you asked. Let me tell you about what we're doing." And then next thing you know, they're rooting for us, and they're a customer.
agent: Yeah. customer: But it was great because it would immediately start with, "Why are you wearing that?" agent: Yeah, why are you wearing a tie? It's the summer. Yeah.
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All right, so you guys get through that first summer, and you've tested... I mean, the, it, it proves out, right? You're, you're seeing some traction. And so you clearly are deciding, you've realized now or you know that you can, you can go outside of Martha's Vineyard and Nantucket. You can go outside the islands. Um,...
customer: But it was great because it would immediately start with, "Why are you wearing that?" agent: Yeah, why are you wearing a tie? It's the summer. Yeah. customer: "I'm s- I'm so glad you asked. Let me tell you about what we're doing." And then next thing you know, they're rooting for us, and they're a customer.
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So after the summer, we had already seen with the success of the Nantucket test, if you will, that we would s- go make more ties and see if we could bring them off of the island. And so we made about a dozen new designs, and we got in our Jeep, and we hit. We drove all up and down the Eastern Seaboard.
agent: Yeah, why are you wearing a tie? It's the summer. Yeah. customer: "I'm s- I'm so glad you asked. Let me tell you about what we're doing." And then next thing you know, they're rooting for us, and they're a customer. agent: All right, so you guys get through that first summer, and you've tested... I mean, the, it...
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Mm-hmm.
customer: "I'm s- I'm so glad you asked. Let me tell you about what we're doing." And then next thing you know, they're rooting for us, and they're a customer. agent: All right, so you guys get through that first summer, and you've tested... I mean, the, it, it proves out, right? You're, you're seeing some traction. An...
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We were going to drive to different boutiques throughout the Northeast and see if we could get some of these stores, boutiques and men's stores, to buy our ties.
agent: All right, so you guys get through that first summer, and you've tested... I mean, the, it, it proves out, right? You're, you're seeing some traction. And so you clearly are deciding, you've realized now or you know that you can, you can go outside of Martha's Vineyard and Nantucket. You can go outside the islan...
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Would you call ahead, or would you just, um, pop in?
customer: So after the summer, we had already seen with the success of the Nantucket test, if you will, that we would s- go make more ties and see if we could bring them off of the island. And so we made about a dozen new designs, and we got in our Jeep, and we hit. We drove all up and down the Eastern Seaboard. agent:...
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We would do both. We would do anyone who wouldn't take our call, we would stop by and say hey. And you know, we always liked the no. Even though the yes was always great, we liked the no because we knew that at some point we could get them to say yes.
agent: Mm-hmm. customer: We were going to drive to different boutiques throughout the Northeast and see if we could get some of these stores, boutiques and men's stores, to buy our ties. agent: Would you call ahead, or would you just, um, pop in?
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And how did you identify which stores you wanted to go to? Like, this is the, uh, 1998. Like, uh, sort of internet search not quite there yet. Do you remember how you, you said, "Okay, in Boston we wanna go here. In Philadelphia we wanna go here, and you know, in, in, uh, Washington, DC we wanna go here"?
customer: We were going to drive to different boutiques throughout the Northeast and see if we could get some of these stores, boutiques and men's stores, to buy our ties. agent: Would you call ahead, or would you just, um, pop in? customer: We would do both. We would do anyone who wouldn't take our call, we would stop...
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That was a hard thing to do, to, to, to be totally honest. There are two ways we found out about good accounts. One was most of the customers we had on Martha's Vineyard didn't live there. They were visiting. So they would go back to wherever they lived, and any customer that we had met or knew somebody in different pl...
agent: Would you call ahead, or would you just, um, pop in? customer: We would do both. We would do anyone who wouldn't take our call, we would stop by and say hey. And you know, we always liked the no. Even though the yes was always great, we liked the no because we knew that at some point we could get them to say yes...
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Did you get people saying i- on that road trip, "You know, ties are just not selling right now. It's just not... It's just we're, we're seeing this as a declining market"?
customer: We would do both. We would do anyone who wouldn't take our call, we would stop by and say hey. And you know, we always liked the no. Even though the yes was always great, we liked the no because we knew that at some point we could get them to say yes. agent: And how did you identify which stores you wanted to...
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There, there were two great moments on one trip. One, we walked into a store and he had all brown ties.
agent: And how did you identify which stores you wanted to go to? Like, this is the, uh, 1998. Like, uh, sort of internet search not quite there yet. Do you remember how you, you said, "Okay, in Boston we wanna go here. In Philadelphia we wanna go here, and you know, in, in, uh, Washington, DC we wanna go here"? custom...
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Mm-hmm.
customer: That was a hard thing to do, to, to, to be totally honest. There are two ways we found out about good accounts. One was most of the customers we had on Martha's Vineyard didn't live there. They were visiting. So they would go back to wherever they lived, and any customer that we had met or knew somebody in di...
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And he said, "Ties are not selling." And I said, "Okay, well, we have all these great colorful ties." It... And it didn't, it didn't take. The next one was a great store in Boston called Zara, and it was run by one guy, and he carried beautiful clothes. And he sort of laughed at us when we came in with our ties in our ...
agent: Did you get people saying i- on that road trip, "You know, ties are just not selling right now. It's just not... It's just we're, we're seeing this as a declining market"? customer: There, there were two great moments on one trip. One, we walked into a store and he had all brown ties. agent: Mm-hmm.
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Hmm.
customer: There, there were two great moments on one trip. One, we walked into a store and he had all brown ties. agent: Mm-hmm. customer: And he said, "Ties are not selling." And I said, "Okay, well, we have all these great colorful ties." It... And it didn't, it didn't take. The next one was a great store in Boston c...
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And so we played, and, and I beat him, and that was the beginning of a very, very nice relationship.
agent: Mm-hmm. customer: And he said, "Ties are not selling." And I said, "Okay, well, we have all these great colorful ties." It... And it didn't, it didn't take. The next one was a great store in Boston called Zara, and it was run by one guy, and he carried beautiful clothes. And he sort of laughed at us when we came...
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So I, I'm curious. I mean, 1998 on that trip, where do you remember, aside from that boutique... I mean, you must have had some success of some people saying, "Yeah, we'll carry these." Like... Or was it just, I don't know. Did you... Did- was it discouraging?
customer: And he said, "Ties are not selling." And I said, "Okay, well, we have all these great colorful ties." It... And it didn't, it didn't take. The next one was a great store in Boston called Zara, and it was run by one guy, and he carried beautiful clothes. And he sort of laughed at us when we came in with our ti...
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You know, I think it was, um, it, it, it was both. You know? It, it was a total luck of the draw what we were gonna find. Um, but, you know, it's hard to, like... I think we look back on it, uh, like as the most fun we never wanna have again type of thing, where, you know, uh, the reality is, you know, you're standing ...
agent: Hmm. customer: And so we played, and, and I beat him, and that was the beginning of a very, very nice relationship. agent: So I, I'm curious. I mean, 1998 on that trip, where do you remember, aside from that boutique... I mean, you must have had some success of some people saying, "Yeah, we'll carry these." Like...
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the nos motivated us
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Yeah. Yeah, 'cause, I mean, uh, uh, apparel, especially specialty apparel, there's this very knowledgeable group of people who are in that business. Sometimes it's multi-generational. And I imagine, like, two young guys in their 20s going into some of these stores, and you come across an, you know, an older guy who's b...
customer: And so we played, and, and I beat him, and that was the beginning of a very, very nice relationship. agent: So I, I'm curious. I mean, 1998 on that trip, where do you remember, aside from that boutique... I mean, you must have had some success of some people saying, "Yeah, we'll carry these." Like... Or was i...
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W- we did, for sure. We had one guy who said, you know, we were very pedestrian. We had one... A lot of people say, you know, "We're just not selling ties." And you're totally right. We had no experience in this industry. And, you know, a lot of brands, uh, uh, were started by people who were in the industry, you know,...
agent: So I, I'm curious. I mean, 1998 on that trip, where do you remember, aside from that boutique... I mean, you must have had some success of some people saying, "Yeah, we'll carry these." Like... Or was it just, I don't know. Did you... Did- was it discouraging? customer: You know, I think it was, um, it, it, it w...
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a lot of people say, you know, 'We're just not selling ties.' ... We earned their respect, and with, with that respect came their willingness to give us a sh- a chance
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Hmm.
customer: You know, I think it was, um, it, it, it was both. You know? It, it was a total luck of the draw what we were gonna find. Um, but, you know, it's hard to, like... I think we look back on it, uh, like as the most fun we never wanna have again type of thing, where, you know, uh, the reality is, you know, you're...
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You know, the church boutiques, the school boutiques, the women's luncheons, whatever it was.
agent: Yeah. Yeah, 'cause, I mean, uh, uh, apparel, especially specialty apparel, there's this very knowledgeable group of people who are in that business. Sometimes it's multi-generational. And I imagine, like, two young guys in their 20s going into some of these stores, and you come across an, you know, an older guy ...
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In, in Connecticut around where you guys lived?
customer: W- we did, for sure. We had one guy who said, you know, we were very pedestrian. We had one... A lot of people say, you know, "We're just not selling ties." And you're totally right. We had no experience in this industry. And, you know, a lot of brands, uh, uh, were started by people who were in the industry,...
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In Connecticut, in New York, in Washington, D.C., everywhere, anywhere they would take us.
agent: Hmm. customer: You know, the church boutiques, the school boutiques, the women's luncheons, whatever it was. agent: In, in Connecticut around where you guys lived?
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And these were not, uh, trade shows. These were, like-
customer: You know, the church boutiques, the school boutiques, the women's luncheons, whatever it was. agent: In, in Connecticut around where you guys lived? customer: In Connecticut, in New York, in Washington, D.C., everywhere, anywhere they would take us.
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No
agent: In, in Connecticut around where you guys lived? customer: In Connecticut, in New York, in Washington, D.C., everywhere, anywhere they would take us. agent: And these were not, uh, trade shows. These were, like-
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... very small-
customer: In Connecticut, in New York, in Washington, D.C., everywhere, anywhere they would take us. agent: And these were not, uh, trade shows. These were, like- customer: No
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These were like... Yes. These were in high school gymnasiums-
agent: And these were not, uh, trade shows. These were, like- customer: No agent: ... very small-
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Mm-hmm
customer: No agent: ... very small- customer: These were like... Yes. These were in high school gymnasiums-
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... and churches.
agent: ... very small- customer: These were like... Yes. These were in high school gymnasiums- agent: Mm-hmm
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Yeah.
customer: These were like... Yes. These were in high school gymnasiums- agent: Mm-hmm customer: ... and churches.
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And, like, all of us, that's what we did. We used to joke we were on the show circuit. And so we would hire our friends. It was, you know, our, our parents, whoever could do it. We would sometimes have three or four at a time. And that was a great way because all of the stores that said no around us, all of the people ...
agent: Mm-hmm customer: ... and churches. agent: Yeah.
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We used to joke we were on the show circuit. ... We would hire our friends. It was, you know, our, our parents, whoever could do it.
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And so it really was, like, small time word of mouth in, in those first few years. Did you guys try to get any media coverage? Did you try to pitch magazine? 'Cause at the time, magazines mattered, men's magazines. And did you, did you make any attempts to get, uh, uh, to get into some of those places?
customer: ... and churches. agent: Yeah. customer: And, like, all of us, that's what we did. We used to joke we were on the show circuit. And so we would hire our friends. It was, you know, our, our parents, whoever could do it. We would sometimes have three or four at a time. And that was a great way because all of th...
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So, so what Ian and I did is we used to send our ties to a lot of the people on the news.
agent: Yeah. customer: And, like, all of us, that's what we did. We used to joke we were on the show circuit. And so we would hire our friends. It was, you know, our, our parents, whoever could do it. We would sometimes have three or four at a time. And that was a great way because all of the stores that said no around...
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Oh, like TV-
customer: And, like, all of us, that's what we did. We used to joke we were on the show circuit. And so we would hire our friends. It was, you know, our, our parents, whoever could do it. We would sometimes have three or four at a time. And that was a great way because all of the stores that said no around us, all of t...
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You know-
agent: And so it really was, like, small time word of mouth in, in those first few years. Did you guys try to get any media coverage? Did you try to pitch magazine? 'Cause at the time, magazines mattered, men's magazines. And did you, did you make any attempts to get, uh, uh, to get into some of those places? customer:...
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... anchors
customer: So, so what Ian and I did is we used to send our ties to a lot of the people on the news. agent: Oh, like TV- customer: You know-
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... the anchor people.
agent: Oh, like TV- customer: You know- agent: ... anchors
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Okay. Yep.
customer: You know- agent: ... anchors customer: ... the anchor people.
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And we would get handwritten notes back by people, and then those anchor people would call their producers and say, "Hey, listen, this is an American dream story." And so we ended up getting segments about our story at all the major networks.
agent: ... anchors customer: ... the anchor people. agent: Okay. Yep.
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Such a smart move. Yeah. I mean... And, and at that time, I mean, 2000, 2001, right? 'Cause I, uh, w- I read... Well, I'll, I'll get to this question in a sec, but I read that within three years you guys are doing a million dollars in sales, which is kind of crazy. Um, before we, before I ask you about how you got ther...
customer: ... the anchor people. agent: Okay. Yep. customer: And we would get handwritten notes back by people, and then those anchor people would call their producers and say, "Hey, listen, this is an American dream story." And so we ended up getting segments about our story at all the major networks.
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So the ties I mean, just the cost of the tie itself, the physical tie and the components was probably somewhere around 12, $13, something like that. And we didn't realize it at the time, but it was a very high profit margin product.
agent: Okay. Yep. customer: And we would get handwritten notes back by people, and then those anchor people would call their producers and say, "Hey, listen, this is an American dream story." And so we ended up getting segments about our story at all the major networks. agent: Such a smart move. Yeah. I mean... And, an...
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Yeah.
customer: And we would get handwritten notes back by people, and then those anchor people would call their producers and say, "Hey, listen, this is an American dream story." And so we ended up getting segments about our story at all the major networks. agent: Such a smart move. Yeah. I mean... And, and at that time, I ...
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It also had quite a long runway in terms of apparel. It was less seasonal. Like, we could make the same print... In fact, we still make the same print, some of the same prints we did 20 years ago. So they, the pr- the inventory lasted longer than typically for apparel, and it also took up a very small amount of retail ...
agent: Such a smart move. Yeah. I mean... And, and at that time, I mean, 2000, 2001, right? 'Cause I, uh, w- I read... Well, I'll, I'll get to this question in a sec, but I read that within three years you guys are doing a million dollars in sales, which is kind of crazy. Um, before we, before I ask you about how you g...
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Yeah.
customer: So the ties I mean, just the cost of the tie itself, the physical tie and the components was probably somewhere around 12, $13, something like that. And we didn't realize it at the time, but it was a very high profit margin product. agent: Yeah. customer: It also had quite a long runway in terms of apparel. I...
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So all those things were great, and I wish we could say we went into it thinking-
agent: Yeah. customer: It also had quite a long runway in terms of apparel. It was less seasonal. Like, we could make the same print... In fact, we still make the same print, some of the same prints we did 20 years ago. So they, the pr- the inventory lasted longer than typically for apparel, and it also took up a very ...
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[laughs]
customer: It also had quite a long runway in terms of apparel. It was less seasonal. Like, we could make the same print... In fact, we still make the same print, some of the same prints we did 20 years ago. So they, the pr- the inventory lasted longer than typically for apparel, and it also took up a very small amount ...
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... this is a great, uh, industry to be in, but we just, we just got lucky.
agent: Yeah. customer: So all those things were great, and I wish we could say we went into it thinking- agent: [laughs]
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Yeah.
customer: So all those things were great, and I wish we could say we went into it thinking- agent: [laughs] customer: ... this is a great, uh, industry to be in, but we just, we just got lucky.
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But one of the things we learned very early on when we had the success was to stay focused, which is not easy for an entrepreneur to do.
agent: [laughs] customer: ... this is a great, uh, industry to be in, but we just, we just got lucky. agent: Yeah.
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No. And what did that mean, stay focused? It just meant making more ties and-
customer: ... this is a great, uh, industry to be in, but we just, we just got lucky. agent: Yeah. customer: But one of the things we learned very early on when we had the success was to stay focused, which is not easy for an entrepreneur to do.
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So for, for us at the time it meant it's working with the ties, keep making ties, keep selling ties. Don't take on more than you can do. But I think one of the, one of our mentors, his name was Ira Neimark, who was the guy who really put Bergdorf Goodman on, on the map.
agent: Yeah. customer: But one of the things we learned very early on when we had the success was to stay focused, which is not easy for an entrepreneur to do. agent: No. And what did that mean, stay focused? It just meant making more ties and-
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one of our mentors, his name was Ira Neimark
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Oh, wow. You guys knew him from, like, just a family connection?
customer: But one of the things we learned very early on when we had the success was to stay focused, which is not easy for an entrepreneur to do. agent: No. And what did that mean, stay focused? It just meant making more ties and- customer: So for, for us at the time it meant it's working with the ties, keep making ti...
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We know from a, a customer introduced us.
agent: No. And what did that mean, stay focused? It just meant making more ties and- customer: So for, for us at the time it meant it's working with the ties, keep making ties, keep selling ties. Don't take on more than you can do. But I think one of the, one of our mentors, his name was Ira Neimark, who was the guy wh...
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Mm-hmm.
customer: So for, for us at the time it meant it's working with the ties, keep making ties, keep selling ties. Don't take on more than you can do. But I think one of the, one of our mentors, his name was Ira Neimark, who was the guy who really put Bergdorf Goodman on, on the map. agent: Oh, wow. You guys knew him from,...
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And we got some great advice early on. Um, he said, uh, "You know, guys, I really think you need to set a goal that you want to achieve in terms of how many annual sales in neckties you're gonna do before you add another product category." And it was sort of hard to hear as an entrepreneur because we started to see lot...
agent: Oh, wow. You guys knew him from, like, just a family connection? customer: We know from a, a customer introduced us. agent: Mm-hmm.
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Yeah. But you guys had this goal to hit $5 million in sales before you would even think about expanding. Were you already... Do you remember already in 2001 thinking, "Okay, we gotta move beyond ties," or did you think of it as a tie business?
customer: We know from a, a customer introduced us. agent: Mm-hmm. customer: And we got some great advice early on. Um, he said, uh, "You know, guys, I really think you need to set a goal that you want to achieve in terms of how many annual sales in neckties you're gonna do before you add another product category." And...
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You know, I, I think we were listening to our customers, and one thing that we were hearing a lot of was what the... And a lot of our customers were women who were buying gifts for their husbands, and they really wanted something for themselves. They had fallen in love with our aesthetic and our look and our prints spe...
agent: Mm-hmm. customer: And we got some great advice early on. Um, he said, uh, "You know, guys, I really think you need to set a goal that you want to achieve in terms of how many annual sales in neckties you're gonna do before you add another product category." And it was sort of hard to hear as an entrepreneur beca...
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With, like, prints of little fish and whales or what? Like, what were-
customer: And we got some great advice early on. Um, he said, uh, "You know, guys, I really think you need to set a goal that you want to achieve in terms of how many annual sales in neckties you're gonna do before you add another product category." And it was sort of hard to hear as an entrepreneur because we started ...
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Yeah, they looked just like the ties, but they were printed on cotton. Same, same exact prints as our ties. And that being pitched an opportunity of what, uh, that other people with experience saw potential in our brand, um, has propelled a lot of different opportunities for us over the years, things that we didn't thi...
agent: Yeah. But you guys had this goal to hit $5 million in sales before you would even think about expanding. Were you already... Do you remember already in 2001 thinking, "Okay, we gotta move beyond ties," or did you think of it as a tie business? customer: You know, I, I think we were listening to our customers, an...
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being open to opportunities they, as they come our way
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So do you remember... So you have the boxers, right? You've got this, um, you know, this idea, and you guys love them, and w- how do you remember getting into other apparel? 'Cause you would soon get into shirts and sweaters and jackets and other things. How did that happen?
customer: You know, I, I think we were listening to our customers, and one thing that we were hearing a lot of was what the... And a lot of our customers were women who were buying gifts for their husbands, and they really wanted something for themselves. They had fallen in love with our aesthetic and our look and our ...
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That happened because Ian and I were looking at the hang tag one day, and we s- and it said, "We invite you to take the good life to work with you whenever a tie is necessary." And we said, "Well, why the hell shouldn't we help people dress for this lifestyle that we're conveying in a tie?" And said, "Let's try and mak...
agent: With, like, prints of little fish and whales or what? Like, what were- customer: Yeah, they looked just like the ties, but they were printed on cotton. Same, same exact prints as our ties. And that being pitched an opportunity of what, uh, that other people with experience saw potential in our brand, um, has pro...
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When we come back in just a moment, Shep and Ian expand their inventory, but when the financial crisis hits, they have to learn how to get rid of it. Stay with us. I'm Guy Raz, and you're listening to How I Built This. Work can be a little weird. I've had plenty of those moments early in my career, and honestly, even l...
customer: Yeah, they looked just like the ties, but they were printed on cotton. Same, same exact prints as our ties. And that being pitched an opportunity of what, uh, that other people with experience saw potential in our brand, um, has propelled a lot of different opportunities for us over the years, things that we ...
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What we learned very quickly was what we did not know about operating retail. So we thought, you know, to open a store, well, we need, we need a store. We need a location. So we actually bought the building. Uh, I, I, I don't even know why we did it or why we thought we shouldn't rent a space, but we actually bought a ...
agent: So do you remember... So you have the boxers, right? You've got this, um, you know, this idea, and you guys love them, and w- how do you remember getting into other apparel? 'Cause you would soon get into shirts and sweaters and jackets and other things. How did that happen? customer: That happened because Ian a...
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I mean, it makes sense why you would open a store in Martha's Vineyard. You're called Vineyard Vines. The problem, though, with Martha's Vineyard, it's very seasonal. Like, who is shopping in the wintertime? I mean, there's a small population that's there year-round. So I'm wondering just that. Like, wouldn't it have m...
customer: That happened because Ian and I were looking at the hang tag one day, and we s- and it said, "We invite you to take the good life to work with you whenever a tie is necessary." And we said, "Well, why the hell shouldn't we help people dress for this lifestyle that we're conveying in a tie?" And said, "Let's t...
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The answer is 100% yes. Yes.
agent: When we come back in just a moment, Shep and Ian expand their inventory, but when the financial crisis hits, they have to learn how to get rid of it. Stay with us. I'm Guy Raz, and you're listening to How I Built This. Work can be a little weird. I've had plenty of those moments early in my career, and honestly,...
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Right. Okay.
customer: What we learned very quickly was what we did not know about operating retail. So we thought, you know, to open a store, well, we need, we need a store. We need a location. So we actually bought the building. Uh, I, I, I don't even know why we did it or why we thought we shouldn't rent a space, but we actually...
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We, we felt like, you know, it was the namesake and where we wanted to be, so that's why we did it. And yes, so incredibly busy for a very short period of time, and like any seasonal business, uh, it's very challenging to go from zero to 100 back down to zero, all within, like, 100 days, which is basically what the sea...
agent: I mean, it makes sense why you would open a store in Martha's Vineyard. You're called Vineyard Vines. The problem, though, with Martha's Vineyard, it's very seasonal. Like, who is shopping in the wintertime? I mean, there's a small population that's there year-round. So I'm wondering just that. Like, wouldn't it...
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And were you... I mean, how was your overall cash situation? I mean, y- y- y- you know, it started with the two of you. Now you've got a store on Martha's Vineyard. You've got a whole line of clothing. So w- w- how are you financing all of these hires? Was it just cash flow from the business?
customer: The answer is 100% yes. Yes. agent: Right. Okay. customer: We, we felt like, you know, it was the namesake and where we wanted to be, so that's why we did it. And yes, so incredibly busy for a very short period of time, and like any seasonal business, uh, it's very challenging to go from zero to 100 back down...
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Exactly. We had no, like, line of credit or anything like that. It was all just cash flow.
agent: Right. Okay. customer: We, we felt like, you know, it was the namesake and where we wanted to be, so that's why we did it. And yes, so incredibly busy for a very short period of time, and like any seasonal business, uh, it's very challenging to go from zero to 100 back down to zero, all within, like, 100 days, w...
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Wow. And roughly, do you remember how many people you guys had working for you by that time?
customer: We, we felt like, you know, it was the namesake and where we wanted to be, so that's why we did it. And yes, so incredibly busy for a very short period of time, and like any seasonal business, uh, it's very challenging to go from zero to 100 back down to zero, all within, like, 100 days, which is basically wh...
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That was 2005. We probably had, what do you think, 60?
agent: And were you... I mean, how was your overall cash situation? I mean, y- y- y- you know, it started with the two of you. Now you've got a store on Martha's Vineyard. You've got a whole line of clothing. So w- w- how are you financing all of these hires? Was it just cash flow from the business? customer: Exactly. ...
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And that includes retail sales reps, like, on the floor.
customer: Exactly. We had no, like, line of credit or anything like that. It was all just cash flow. agent: Wow. And roughly, do you remember how many people you guys had working for you by that time? customer: That was 2005. We probably had, what do you think, 60?
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Yeah. Yeah.
agent: Wow. And roughly, do you remember how many people you guys had working for you by that time? customer: That was 2005. We probably had, what do you think, 60? agent: And that includes retail sales reps, like, on the floor.
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All right. So you've got this store on Martha's Vineyard, and the strategy is to, presumably to open more stores, right? And I guess you guys met, uh, a family, uh, called the Mitchell family. They had their own boutiques, and you formed a partnership with them. Tell me about who they were and, and, and why you formed ...
customer: That was 2005. We probably had, what do you think, 60? agent: And that includes retail sales reps, like, on the floor. customer: Yeah. Yeah.
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So there's a local store here in our town in Connecticut called Richards, which sold... s- still in business, sells fantastic brands, um, men's and women's clothing store, and we had done a nice business with them. They sold a ton of our ties, and they were selling our other products as well. And I remember calling the...
agent: And that includes retail sales reps, like, on the floor. customer: Yeah. Yeah. agent: All right. So you've got this store on Martha's Vineyard, and the strategy is to, presumably to open more stores, right? And I guess you guys met, uh, a family, uh, called the Mitchell family. They had their own boutiques, and ...
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they helped us identify real estate ... we have a lot of gratitude towards the Mitchell family
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Um, w- and all of these stores were basically just financed through cash flow?
customer: Yeah. Yeah. agent: All right. So you've got this store on Martha's Vineyard, and the strategy is to, presumably to open more stores, right? And I guess you guys met, uh, a family, uh, called the Mitchell family. They had their own boutiques, and you formed a partnership with them. Tell me about who they were ...
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Yes, all of them.
agent: All right. So you've got this store on Martha's Vineyard, and the strategy is to, presumably to open more stores, right? And I guess you guys met, uh, a family, uh, called the Mitchell family. They had their own boutiques, and you formed a partnership with them. Tell me about who they were and, and, and why you ...
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I mean, it's... Yeah, it's amazing. I mean, y- you really struck... You struck on something, right? You hit on something that was appealing to a certain audience. Um, I think at this point m- m- probably were you doing... You were doing women's clothing as well, but who... How would you describe your, like, the typical...
customer: So there's a local store here in our town in Connecticut called Richards, which sold... s- still in business, sells fantastic brands, um, men's and women's clothing store, and we had done a nice business with them. They sold a ton of our ties, and they were selling our other products as well. And I remember c...
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So 70% of the people that were walking through our door was a woman 35 to 55 years old, and 70% of the product was for men. And then we decided to make women's stuff so that she could find something for herself. What we've tried to do is figure out how to make her happy when she's in the store. How do we make the shopp...
agent: Um, w- and all of these stores were basically just financed through cash flow? customer: Yes, all of them. agent: I mean, it's... Yeah, it's amazing. I mean, y- you really struck... You struck on something, right? You hit on something that was appealing to a certain audience. Um, I think at this point m- m- prob...
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Okay, so you guys, um, you hit 2008 and the financial crisis, and this is actually going to be not a good period for many businesses, but particularly for you guys. Tell me what, what was going on? What happened to, to the business during that time?
customer: Yes, all of them. agent: I mean, it's... Yeah, it's amazing. I mean, y- you really struck... You struck on something, right? You hit on something that was appealing to a certain audience. Um, I think at this point m- m- probably were you doing... You were doing women's clothing as well, but who... How would y...
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2008 was interesting, A, because the recession was starting to hit, and things were, were getting tough. Two, internally in our business, there was a lot of, like, uh, shifting going on. Our parents passed away, um, just a few years earlier. We had some, you know, some people on our team that Shep and I didn't always, ...
agent: I mean, it's... Yeah, it's amazing. I mean, y- you really struck... You struck on something, right? You hit on something that was appealing to a certain audience. Um, I think at this point m- m- probably were you doing... You were doing women's clothing as well, but who... How would you describe your, like, the ...
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Oh, '08 we were 100 million.
customer: So 70% of the people that were walking through our door was a woman 35 to 55 years old, and 70% of the product was for men. And then we decided to make women's stuff so that she could find something for herself. What we've tried to do is figure out how to make her happy when she's in the store. How do we make...
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So we were 100 million. And, um, at that point in time, we really could sort of hunker down or we could really, you know, go for it, 'cause we saw a lot of opportunity. We saw a lot... We saw real estate was sort of depressed. Um, we saw that the workforce, there was... You know, getting a job was not as easy. So from ...
agent: Okay, so you guys, um, you hit 2008 and the financial crisis, and this is actually going to be not a good period for many businesses, but particularly for you guys. Tell me what, what was going on? What happened to, to the business during that time? customer: 2008 was interesting, A, because the recession was st...
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to complement the people who had been with us ... to go alongside and, and mentor
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The other thing that we did in '08 when the crisis was coming was we really were aggressive with our inventory. Someone once told us inventory, um, is like fruit. It doesn't get better with age. And so we liquidated a lot of our inventory to, like, the TJ Maxxes and Filenes.
customer: 2008 was interesting, A, because the recession was starting to hit, and things were, were getting tough. Two, internally in our business, there was a lot of, like, uh, shifting going on. Our parents passed away, um, just a few years earlier. We had some, you know, some people on our team that Shep and I didn'...
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Mm-hmm.
agent: Oh, '08 we were 100 million. customer: So we were 100 million. And, um, at that point in time, we really could sort of hunker down or we could really, you know, go for it, 'cause we saw a lot of opportunity. We saw a lot... We saw real estate was sort of depressed. Um, we saw that the workforce, there was... You...
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