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quablab
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how-i-build-this-coded

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https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0173
Remember, we didn't have that big a sales. One of the most interesting challenges for a consumer packaged goods entrepreneur is that the more you succeed, the harder it is for your cash flow. But ironically, when you're starting, you don't have that much sales, so you don't need... Like, if you're selling 10 or $20,000...
agent: And who was going to manufacture these for you initially? customer: So initially we tried to find somebody to do it in the United States, and nobody wants to, and so we went with relationships with Peter that were willing to do it for us in Australia. agent: Initially Australia, I imagine that creates some chall...
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https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0174
Right, and did you also work through the branding and the look of the packaging, or would that come later?
customer: So initially we tried to find somebody to do it in the United States, and nobody wants to, and so we went with relationships with Peter that were willing to do it for us in Australia. agent: Initially Australia, I imagine that creates some challenges because you've got to export them to the US, and then how d...
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https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0175
I mean, it's evolved somewhat, but it really... The, the essence was worked out from the day one. Like, it was the thought of the four blocks and the word KIND and the lockup and the colors and, and also very importantly, we wanted a very, very clean design. We didn't... Because everybody out there used a lot of photog...
agent: Initially Australia, I imagine that creates some challenges because you've got to export them to the US, and then how did you finance even the early production in Australia? How did you pay for that? customer: Remember, we didn't have that big a sales. One of the most interesting challenges for a consumer packag...
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https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0176
From the beginning you had a, you had the transparent packaging?
customer: Remember, we didn't have that big a sales. One of the most interesting challenges for a consumer packaged goods entrepreneur is that the more you succeed, the harder it is for your cash flow. But ironically, when you're starting, you don't have that much sales, so you don't need... Like, if you're selling 10 ...
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https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0177
The transparent wrapper was... It was very hard to achieve because about, I don't know, 50% of the product is just you're seeing the product itself, and so it's very hard. How do you communicate everything you need to communicate in only 50% of the space or it may be 40% of the space?
agent: Right, and did you also work through the branding and the look of the packaging, or would that come later? customer: I mean, it's evolved somewhat, but it really... The, the essence was worked out from the day one. Like, it was the thought of the four blocks and the word KIND and the lockup and the colors and, a...
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https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0178
'Cause the, the, the transparent part of the wrapper, you were not gonna print anything on it.
customer: I mean, it's evolved somewhat, but it really... The, the essence was worked out from the day one. Like, it was the thought of the four blocks and the word KIND and the lockup and the colors and, and also very importantly, we wanted a very, very clean design. We didn't... Because everybody out there used a lot...
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https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0179
Exactly. We wanted people- To look at the product themselves and know, oh, this is real. This is not like everything else. This is clearly high quality. I'm seeing the whole nuts and fruits. That was a big insight, so but the challenge is how do you then explain the brand KIND and your value proposition in the real est...
agent: From the beginning you had a, you had the transparent packaging? customer: The transparent wrapper was... It was very hard to achieve because about, I don't know, 50% of the product is just you're seeing the product itself, and so it's very hard. How do you communicate everything you need to communicate in only ...
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https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0180
And this is, uh, also a challenge because a clear wrapper... Like, one of the reasons why so many products are in opaque packaging is because it preserves the product for longer, and a clear packaging, a clear wrapper is different. That's harder to do.
customer: The transparent wrapper was... It was very hard to achieve because about, I don't know, 50% of the product is just you're seeing the product itself, and so it's very hard. How do you communicate everything you need to communicate in only 50% of the space or it may be 40% of the space? agent: 'Cause the, the, ...
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https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0181
There's proprietary knowledge that goes into des- designing a pack- packaging that's both transparent and good quality.
agent: 'Cause the, the, the transparent part of the wrapper, you were not gonna print anything on it. customer: Exactly. We wanted people- To look at the product themselves and know, oh, this is real. This is not like everything else. This is clearly high quality. I'm seeing the whole nuts and fruits. That was a big in...
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https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0182
Okay, so in the, in the sort of the, the year before you launch KIND, you're kind of in a crisis. PeaceWorks is kind of in a crisis because you're still trying to sell spreads and other products. They're not really... Uh, it's not enough revenue to sustain your team. Your team decides let's go all in on this new bar, b...
customer: Exactly. We wanted people- To look at the product themselves and know, oh, this is real. This is not like everything else. This is clearly high quality. I'm seeing the whole nuts and fruits. That was a big insight, so but the challenge is how do you then explain the brand KIND and your value proposition in th...
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https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0183
At the beginning, it started slow, but it very quickly ramped up.
agent: And this is, uh, also a challenge because a clear wrapper... Like, one of the reasons why so many products are in opaque packaging is because it preserves the product for longer, and a clear packaging, a clear wrapper is different. That's harder to do. customer: There's proprietary knowledge that goes into des- ...
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https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0184
How? How? Did you sample it? Did you guys market it? How did you do it?
customer: There's proprietary knowledge that goes into des- designing a pack- packaging that's both transparent and good quality. agent: Okay, so in the, in the sort of the, the year before you launch KIND, you're kind of in a crisis. PeaceWorks is kind of in a crisis because you're still trying to sell spreads and oth...
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https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0185
The product, the product was just the right product at the right time. There was nothing else like it.
agent: Okay, so in the, in the sort of the, the year before you launch KIND, you're kind of in a crisis. PeaceWorks is kind of in a crisis because you're still trying to sell spreads and other products. They're not really... Uh, it's not enough revenue to sustain your team. Your team decides let's go all in on this new...
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https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0186
But it was on a shelf with, like, 50 other energy bars and, uh-
customer: At the beginning, it started slow, but it very quickly ramped up. agent: How? How? Did you sample it? Did you guys market it? How did you do it? customer: The product, the product was just the right product at the right time. There was nothing else like it.
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Oh, oh, oh, oh, that's great. You just reminded me of something. They didn't know where to merchandise the product-
agent: How? How? Did you sample it? Did you guys market it? How did you do it? customer: The product, the product was just the right product at the right time. There was nothing else like it. agent: But it was on a shelf with, like, 50 other energy bars and, uh-
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https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0188
Whole Foods didn't
customer: The product, the product was just the right product at the right time. There was nothing else like it. agent: But it was on a shelf with, like, 50 other energy bars and, uh- customer: Oh, oh, oh, oh, that's great. You just reminded me of something. They didn't know where to merchandise the product-
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https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0189
... because they had what they called a nutritional bar set.
agent: But it was on a shelf with, like, 50 other energy bars and, uh- customer: Oh, oh, oh, oh, that's great. You just reminded me of something. They didn't know where to merchandise the product- agent: Whole Foods didn't
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https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0190
Right.
customer: Oh, oh, oh, oh, that's great. You just reminded me of something. They didn't know where to merchandise the product- agent: Whole Foods didn't customer: ... because they had what they called a nutritional bar set.
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And the nutritional bar set... I remember being at a Whole Foods, and they're like, "Daniel, the problem is we don't know where to put it." And I'm like, "What do you mean? Put it in the nutritional bar set." It's like, "No, because nutritional bars look like this."
agent: Whole Foods didn't customer: ... because they had what they called a nutritional bar set. agent: Right.
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https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0192
Hmm.
customer: ... because they had what they called a nutritional bar set. agent: Right. customer: And the nutritional bar set... I remember being at a Whole Foods, and they're like, "Daniel, the problem is we don't know where to put it." And I'm like, "What do you mean? Put it in the nutritional bar set." It's like, "No, ...
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But so what happened is that they gave us a chance to put POP displays. So what was a really big problem turned into a huge opportunity because we had racks on the checkout counters in a lot of the stores because they didn't know where else to put it.
agent: Right. customer: And the nutritional bar set... I remember being at a Whole Foods, and they're like, "Daniel, the problem is we don't know where to put it." And I'm like, "What do you mean? Put it in the nutritional bar set." It's like, "No, because nutritional bars look like this." agent: Hmm.
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Oh, so instead of being next to all the energy bars or with candy or with nuts or dried fruit-
customer: And the nutritional bar set... I remember being at a Whole Foods, and they're like, "Daniel, the problem is we don't know where to put it." And I'm like, "What do you mean? Put it in the nutritional bar set." It's like, "No, because nutritional bars look like this." agent: Hmm. customer: But so what happened ...
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They were by themselves
agent: Hmm. customer: But so what happened is that they gave us a chance to put POP displays. So what was a really big problem turned into a huge opportunity because we had racks on the checkout counters in a lot of the stores because they didn't know where else to put it. agent: Oh, so instead of being next to all the...
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... by the register.
customer: But so what happened is that they gave us a chance to put POP displays. So what was a really big problem turned into a huge opportunity because we had racks on the checkout counters in a lot of the stores because they didn't know where else to put it. agent: Oh, so instead of being next to all the energy bars...
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In... By the registers, yes. It was a-
agent: Oh, so instead of being next to all the energy bars or with candy or with nuts or dried fruit- customer: They were by themselves agent: ... by the register.
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Wow
customer: They were by themselves agent: ... by the register. customer: In... By the registers, yes. It was a-
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... huge, huge, huge advantage.
agent: ... by the register. customer: In... By the registers, yes. It was a- agent: Wow
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So people could see them as... And that's a massive... I mean, that's, like, 5-Hour Energy and Slim Jims. Like, that's where you wanna be.
customer: In... By the registers, yes. It was a- agent: Wow customer: ... huge, huge, huge advantage.
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And we had a very l- we designed a display that was not occupying too much real estate. The boxes were small. The product was compact because retailers, what they sell really is real estate. So the more you can turn product into less space, the more they like you, and our product was a $2 bar. You could put in a little...
agent: Wow customer: ... huge, huge, huge advantage. agent: So people could see them as... And that's a massive... I mean, that's, like, 5-Hour Energy and Slim Jims. Like, that's where you wanna be.
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Uh, I read that in the first year you sold about a million dollars' worth of bars, which is great 'cause that's what you were selling with the previous bar, but now it's your own brand. And do you remember, um, having... I mean, you probably had no budget to spend on marketing at all. Do you remember anything you did i...
customer: ... huge, huge, huge advantage. agent: So people could see them as... And that's a massive... I mean, that's, like, 5-Hour Energy and Slim Jims. Like, that's where you wanna be. customer: And we had a very l- we designed a display that was not occupying too much real estate. The boxes were small. The product ...
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
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It was worse than that. I had trained myself over 10 years to not waste money because I didn't have money to waste. But I had made the mistake to then turn the culture of my company into a scarcity mentality rather than a resourceful mentality. So you don't want a gluttonous, wasteful mentality-
agent: So people could see them as... And that's a massive... I mean, that's, like, 5-Hour Energy and Slim Jims. Like, that's where you wanna be. customer: And we had a very l- we designed a display that was not occupying too much real estate. The boxes were small. The product was compact because retailers, what they s...
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0204
Yeah
customer: And we had a very l- we designed a display that was not occupying too much real estate. The boxes were small. The product was compact because retailers, what they sell really is real estate. So the more you can turn product into less space, the more they like you, and our product was a $2 bar. You could put i...
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
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... but you, if you have a scarcity mentality, then you're not investing. So the first few years were lucky that the product had the success of our packaging, our product, and those displays, but that was basically it. We didn't even have a sampling budget-
agent: Uh, I read that in the first year you sold about a million dollars' worth of bars, which is great 'cause that's what you were selling with the previous bar, but now it's your own brand. And do you remember, um, having... I mean, you probably had no budget to spend on marketing at all. Do you remember anything yo...
2,833.398
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We didn't even have a sampling budget
medium
Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0206
Hmm
customer: It was worse than that. I had trained myself over 10 years to not waste money because I didn't have money to waste. But I had made the mistake to then turn the culture of my company into a scarcity mentality rather than a resourceful mentality. So you don't want a gluttonous, wasteful mentality- agent: Yeah c...
2,848.708
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
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... because, really, we saw sampling as a cost center rather than as an opportunity for people to discover our product. Our budget as late as 2008 for sampling was $800, and that was $800 including samples to the retailers.
agent: Yeah customer: ... but you, if you have a scarcity mentality, then you're not investing. So the first few years were lucky that the product had the success of our packaging, our product, and those displays, but that was basically it. We didn't even have a sampling budget- agent: Hmm
2,849.008
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
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Hmm. 'Cause you didn't... also didn't want to be unprofitable. You wanted to have a profit at the end of the year.
customer: ... but you, if you have a scarcity mentality, then you're not investing. So the first few years were lucky that the product had the success of our packaging, our product, and those displays, but that was basically it. We didn't even have a sampling budget- agent: Hmm customer: ... because, really, we saw sam...
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I think after 10 years of barely surviving, I was very good at driving the bottom line up to the point that I was actually shooting myself in the foot by not investing in my future.
agent: Hmm customer: ... because, really, we saw sampling as a cost center rather than as an opportunity for people to discover our product. Our budget as late as 2008 for sampling was $800, and that was $800 including samples to the retailers. agent: Hmm. 'Cause you didn't... also didn't want to be unprofitable. You w...
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0210
Right.
customer: ... because, really, we saw sampling as a cost center rather than as an opportunity for people to discover our product. Our budget as late as 2008 for sampling was $800, and that was $800 including samples to the retailers. agent: Hmm. 'Cause you didn't... also didn't want to be unprofitable. You wanted to ha...
2,886.568
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
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Like, we doubled for 10 years in a row, but the first few years, certainly 2004 to 2008, I mean, we did adver- uh, creative promotional things, but it was really the product that was just selling itself.
agent: Hmm. 'Cause you didn't... also didn't want to be unprofitable. You wanted to have a profit at the end of the year. customer: I think after 10 years of barely surviving, I was very good at driving the bottom line up to the point that I was actually shooting myself in the foot by not investing in my future. agent:...
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I guess in 2007, so, you know, three years in, you get an opportunity to sell at Walmart, but that, that didn't work out. What happened? I mean, Walmart, amazing opportunity. Uh, you get into Walmart, and then I guess you get dropped. What, what, what's the story?
customer: I think after 10 years of barely surviving, I was very good at driving the bottom line up to the point that I was actually shooting myself in the foot by not investing in my future. agent: Right. customer: Like, we doubled for 10 years in a row, but the first few years, certainly 2004 to 2008, I mean, we did ...
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Walmart came to us, and li- the buyer liked our product. And you know one of the most significant dangers is when a buyer loves you because sometimes you're not ready, and you couldn't say no to Walmart. And we, we didn't have salespeople or systems to check if our product was selling through. And one of the things tha...
agent: Right. customer: Like, we doubled for 10 years in a row, but the first few years, certainly 2004 to 2008, I mean, we did adver- uh, creative promotional things, but it was really the product that was just selling itself. agent: I guess in 2007, so, you know, three years in, you get an opportunity to sell at Walm...
2,918.208
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It means it's not good. [laughs]
customer: Like, we doubled for 10 years in a row, but the first few years, certainly 2004 to 2008, I mean, we did adver- uh, creative promotional things, but it was really the product that was just selling itself. agent: I guess in 2007, so, you know, three years in, you get an opportunity to sell at Walmart, but that,...
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No. No, that's what I thought. If you're selling zero, it could be [laughs] that it's really not good, but it could also mean that the product didn't even make it to the shelves.
agent: I guess in 2007, so, you know, three years in, you get an opportunity to sell at Walmart, but that, that didn't work out. What happened? I mean, Walmart, amazing opportunity. Uh, you get into Walmart, and then I guess you get dropped. What, what, what's the story? customer: Walmart came to us, and li- the buyer ...
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
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https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0216
Right.
customer: Walmart came to us, and li- the buyer liked our product. And you know one of the most significant dangers is when a buyer loves you because sometimes you're not ready, and you couldn't say no to Walmart. And we, we didn't have salespeople or systems to check if our product was selling through. And one of the ...
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So the system, at least back when I was starting at Walmart, was so complex that the distributor would drop off the product in the back of the store, and nobody had thought to put it in the front of the store.
agent: It means it's not good. [laughs] customer: No. No, that's what I thought. If you're selling zero, it could be [laughs] that it's really not good, but it could also mean that the product didn't even make it to the shelves. agent: Right.
2,958.508
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
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Hmm.
customer: No. No, that's what I thought. If you're selling zero, it could be [laughs] that it's really not good, but it could also mean that the product didn't even make it to the shelves. agent: Right. customer: So the system, at least back when I was starting at Walmart, was so complex that the distributor would drop...
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And so it was my job to the- identify that, but I didn't know that. And so after we failed miserably at Walmart because we didn't know what we were doing, we licked our wounds and- And a year and a half later, John Leahy, who's got the gray hair to prove it and the experience, comes in as our president and as my partne...
agent: Right. customer: So the system, at least back when I was starting at Walmart, was so complex that the distributor would drop off the product in the back of the store, and nobody had thought to put it in the front of the store. agent: Hmm.
2,970.768
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
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Up until this point, you're still... I mean, up until 2008, I think, you had not taken on any outside investors at all. It was entirely funded by you or-
customer: So the system, at least back when I was starting at Walmart, was so complex that the distributor would drop off the product in the back of the store, and nobody had thought to put it in the front of the store. agent: Hmm. customer: And so it was my job to the- identify that, but I didn't know that. And so aft...
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I had three friends, two friends and a friend of a friend, who had, in the PeaceWorks years, invested $100,000 in PeaceWorks. But when I started KIND, it starts within PeaceWorks because I wanted to find a way to thank them and my investor-
agent: Hmm. customer: And so it was my job to the- identify that, but I didn't know that. And so after we failed miserably at Walmart because we didn't know what we were doing, we licked our wounds and- And a year and a half later, John Leahy, who's got the gray hair to prove it and the experience, comes in as our pres...
3,011.232
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two friends and a friend of a friend, who had, in the PeaceWorks years, invested $100,000 in PeaceWorks
high
Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
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Right
customer: And so it was my job to the- identify that, but I didn't know that. And so after we failed miserably at Walmart because we didn't know what we were doing, we licked our wounds and- And a year and a half later, John Leahy, who's got the gray hair to prove it and the experience, comes in as our president and as...
3,028.152
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... and my board for that. So eventually, in 2008, we start getting a lot of interest.
agent: Up until this point, you're still... I mean, up until 2008, I think, you had not taken on any outside investors at all. It was entirely funded by you or- customer: I had three friends, two friends and a friend of a friend, who had, in the PeaceWorks years, invested $100,000 in PeaceWorks. But when I started KIND...
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You were getting investors coming to you saying, "Hey, we're interested in, in-
customer: I had three friends, two friends and a friend of a friend, who had, in the PeaceWorks years, invested $100,000 in PeaceWorks. But when I started KIND, it starts within PeaceWorks because I wanted to find a way to thank them and my investor- agent: Right customer: ... and my board for that. So eventually, in 2...
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2008-
agent: Right customer: ... and my board for that. So eventually, in 2008, we start getting a lot of interest. agent: You were getting investors coming to you saying, "Hey, we're interested in, in-
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https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
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Mm-hmm
customer: ... and my board for that. So eventually, in 2008, we start getting a lot of interest. agent: You were getting investors coming to you saying, "Hey, we're interested in, in- customer: 2008-
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... it's very interesting how the industry works. Nobody wants to touch you till everybody wants to touch you. It's fascinating. Like, we were like persona non grata in the investment community. We didn't even try anymore because we couldn't raise a cent, which turned out to be really good for me because then I didn't ...
agent: You were getting investors coming to you saying, "Hey, we're interested in, in- customer: 2008- agent: Mm-hmm
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all of a sudden, everybody's calling us, and now we're ignoring them because we're cash flow positive and profitable
medium
Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
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Got it. So... And this is VMG, the private equity firm, I believe, that, uh, bought, um, a share. I mean, at that point in 2009, they valued it at $45 million, the business. And does PeaceWorks then die? Do you continue? Like, were you selling, uh, tomato spread and olive oil tapenade? Like, or was that done?
customer: 2008- agent: Mm-hmm customer: ... it's very interesting how the industry works. Nobody wants to touch you till everybody wants to touch you. It's fascinating. Like, we were like persona non grata in the investment community. We didn't even try anymore because we couldn't raise a cent, which turned out to be r...
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So I didn't wanna give up on the PeaceWorks dream. KIND was growing like crazy, but I didn't wanna give up on the PeaceWorks mission. So my friend Joshua Schertz, uh, who's an amazing entrepreneur, agreed to take it on, and he had his other lines that he was selling and that he started selling PeaceWorks. PeaceWorks li...
agent: Mm-hmm customer: ... it's very interesting how the industry works. Nobody wants to touch you till everybody wants to touch you. It's fascinating. Like, we were like persona non grata in the investment community. We didn't even try anymore because we couldn't raise a cent, which turned out to be really good for m...
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I wonder, I mean, you're... You know, KIND is doing really well. Obviously a really successful product, but it's completely different from what you originally intended to do, right? Which was, like, source the nuts from here and- or, and the, and the sun-dried tomatoes from there and bring people together, and was any ...
customer: ... it's very interesting how the industry works. Nobody wants to touch you till everybody wants to touch you. It's fascinating. Like, we were like persona non grata in the investment community. We didn't even try anymore because we couldn't raise a cent, which turned out to be really good for me because then...
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Um, first of all, KIND was such an amazing journey, and it brought so much happiness to so many people that it never was, "Am I doing the wrong thing?" I was always delighted about the KIND journeys. W- I'm so grateful for it. But yes, there was a piece of me that misses the opportunity to get PeaceWorks right. Now, al...
agent: Got it. So... And this is VMG, the private equity firm, I believe, that, uh, bought, um, a share. I mean, at that point in 2009, they valued it at $45 million, the business. And does PeaceWorks then die? Do you continue? Like, were you selling, uh, tomato spread and olive oil tapenade? Like, or was that done? cu...
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0232
Mm-hmm
customer: So I didn't wanna give up on the PeaceWorks dream. KIND was growing like crazy, but I didn't wanna give up on the PeaceWorks mission. So my friend Joshua Schertz, uh, who's an amazing entrepreneur, agreed to take it on, and he had his other lines that he was selling and that he started selling PeaceWorks. Pea...
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0233
... in the context of Israeli-Arab and Israeli-Palestinian relationships to try to help develop a better future for the people of that region.
agent: I wonder, I mean, you're... You know, KIND is doing really well. Obviously a really successful product, but it's completely different from what you originally intended to do, right? Which was, like, source the nuts from here and- or, and the, and the sun-dried tomatoes from there and bring people together, and w...
3,247.912
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customer
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0234
When we come back in just a moment, why Daniel goes on a years-long quest to get KIND associated with a very specific brand. Stay with us. I'm Guy Raz, and you're listening to How I Built This. Work can be a little weird. I've had plenty of those moments early in my career, and honestly, even later. I remember stretche...
customer: Um, first of all, KIND was such an amazing journey, and it brought so much happiness to so many people that it never was, "Am I doing the wrong thing?" I was always delighted about the KIND journeys. W- I'm so grateful for it. But yes, there was a piece of me that misses the opportunity to get PeaceWorks righ...
3,258.192
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agent
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0235
For me, the insight was this is an incredible, iconic chain, has back then had, I think, 11,000 stores.
agent: Mm-hmm customer: ... in the context of Israeli-Arab and Israeli-Palestinian relationships to try to help develop a better future for the people of that region. agent: When we come back in just a moment, why Daniel goes on a years-long quest to get KIND associated with a very specific brand. Stay with us. I'm Guy...
3,453.424
3,460.204
customer
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0236
Mm-hmm.
customer: ... in the context of Israeli-Arab and Israeli-Palestinian relationships to try to help develop a better future for the people of that region. agent: When we come back in just a moment, why Daniel goes on a years-long quest to get KIND associated with a very specific brand. Stay with us. I'm Guy Raz, and you'...
3,460.204
3,460.764
agent
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0237
And they didn't at that time sell any healthy snacks. They didn't have a single healthy snack. And I'm like, "This makes so much sense for you to carry a KIND bar on the go." And, uh, unbeknownst to me, they liked us too much. They were trying to make their own versions. And fortunately, that did not pan out for them, ...
agent: When we come back in just a moment, why Daniel goes on a years-long quest to get KIND associated with a very specific brand. Stay with us. I'm Guy Raz, and you're listening to How I Built This. Work can be a little weird. I've had plenty of those moments early in my career, and honestly, even later. I remember s...
3,460.764
3,486.784
customer
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0238
You got into Starbucks in 2009, I think. You land a deal with them. And was that... Did it prove to be... I mean, I imagine it did prove out to be just massive because, I mean, at that point, 2009, probably not everybody in America knew what a KIND bar was.
customer: For me, the insight was this is an incredible, iconic chain, has back then had, I think, 11,000 stores. agent: Mm-hmm. customer: And they didn't at that time sell any healthy snacks. They didn't have a single healthy snack. And I'm like, "This makes so much sense for you to carry a KIND bar on the go." And, u...
3,486.784
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0239
A lot of people discovered us... Well, they discovered us three ways, right? Word of mouth, they saw it front of... at Starbucks or through our sampling because our sampling went from $800 in 2008 to $800,000 in 2009, and within a couple years we're sampling $20 million. It's, like, maybe 40 million bars or 30 million ...
agent: Mm-hmm. customer: And they didn't at that time sell any healthy snacks. They didn't have a single healthy snack. And I'm like, "This makes so much sense for you to carry a KIND bar on the go." And, uh, unbeknownst to me, they liked us too much. They were trying to make their own versions. And fortunately, that d...
3,502.244
3,523.584
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0240
Just giving them away.
customer: And they didn't at that time sell any healthy snacks. They didn't have a single healthy snack. And I'm like, "This makes so much sense for you to carry a KIND bar on the go." And, uh, unbeknownst to me, they liked us too much. They were trying to make their own versions. And fortunately, that did not pan out ...
3,523.584
3,524.824
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0241
Giving... Because what we found out, Guy, is that anytime somebody tried a KIND bar, nine out of 10 would fall in love with the brand, would tell others about it, and within a month it would pay for itself because they would start buying the product. It was a great ROI. So sampling was our f- biggest thing. Getting in ...
agent: You got into Starbucks in 2009, I think. You land a deal with them. And was that... Did it prove to be... I mean, I imagine it did prove out to be just massive because, I mean, at that point, 2009, probably not everybody in America knew what a KIND bar was. customer: A lot of people discovered us... Well, they d...
3,524.824
3,551.844
customer
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0242
You mentioned this guy. Was it John Leahy?
customer: A lot of people discovered us... Well, they discovered us three ways, right? Word of mouth, they saw it front of... at Starbucks or through our sampling because our sampling went from $800 in 2008 to $800,000 in 2009, and within a couple years we're sampling $20 million. It's, like, maybe 40 million bars or 3...
3,551.844
3,554.104
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0243
Yeah.
agent: Just giving them away. customer: Giving... Because what we found out, Guy, is that anytime somebody tried a KIND bar, nine out of 10 would fall in love with the brand, would tell others about it, and within a month it would pay for itself because they would start buying the product. It was a great ROI. So sampli...
3,554.104
3,554.664
customer
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0244
Who joined in 2008, I think, right?
customer: Giving... Because what we found out, Guy, is that anytime somebody tried a KIND bar, nine out of 10 would fall in love with the brand, would tell others about it, and within a month it would pay for itself because they would start buying the product. It was a great ROI. So sampling was our f- biggest thing. G...
3,554.664
3,557.404
agent
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0245
John joined either 2009 or 2010.
agent: You mentioned this guy. Was it John Leahy? customer: Yeah. agent: Who joined in 2008, I think, right?
3,557.404
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
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And he became the president of the company?
customer: Yeah. agent: Who joined in 2008, I think, right? customer: John joined either 2009 or 2010.
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0247
John became the president of KIND.
agent: Who joined in 2008, I think, right? customer: John joined either 2009 or 2010. agent: And he became the president of the company?
3,562.164
3,564.044
customer
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
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https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0248
And you re- you remained as CEO. But tell me a little bit about... I mean, you know, this brand is just growing and growing, and so I- I imagine, you know, you are also hiring more people, and then there's also people coming to you or you to, to sort of really, as you're scaling, you wanna bring in people with, like, d...
customer: John joined either 2009 or 2010. agent: And he became the president of the company? customer: John became the president of KIND.
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
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Well, it's an amazing question. John Leahy, without any doubt, was one of the most pivotal forces to help KIND become what it became. So John had a lot of experience. He had worked at Playtex. He had worked at a nutritional company that sold vitamins.
agent: And he became the president of the company? customer: John became the president of KIND. agent: And you re- you remained as CEO. But tell me a little bit about... I mean, you know, this brand is just growing and growing, and so I- I imagine, you know, you are also hiring more people, and then there's also people...
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0250
But he didn't have snack food. He didn't have snack experience, but he had experience in huge CPG companies.
customer: John became the president of KIND. agent: And you re- you remained as CEO. But tell me a little bit about... I mean, you know, this brand is just growing and growing, and so I- I imagine, you know, you are also hiring more people, and then there's also people coming to you or you to, to sort of really, as you...
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0251
And the rest is history. Like, John was one of my best friends, partners, very different from me, yin-yang. Like, his personality and my personality complemented, but we knew we had each other's back. Like, completely different temperaments and personalities. He's very operational. I was very creative and marketing, wh...
agent: And you re- you remained as CEO. But tell me a little bit about... I mean, you know, this brand is just growing and growing, and so I- I imagine, you know, you are also hiring more people, and then there's also people coming to you or you to, to sort of really, as you're scaling, you wanna bring in people with, ...
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we knew we had each other's back
high
Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0252
So did you have a s- a, a COO as well or, or basically was John as president the COO?
customer: Well, it's an amazing question. John Leahy, without any doubt, was one of the most pivotal forces to help KIND become what it became. So John had a lot of experience. He had worked at Playtex. He had worked at a nutritional company that sold vitamins. agent: But he didn't have snack food. He didn't have snack...
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0253
He was the COO and president. And also, to be fair, these titles are silly. Like, he was a co-CEO. He was a co-president. Like, we were running the show together.
agent: But he didn't have snack food. He didn't have snack experience, but he had experience in huge CPG companies. customer: And the rest is history. Like, John was one of my best friends, partners, very different from me, yin-yang. Like, his personality and my personality complemented, but we knew we had each other's...
3,640.724
3,651.524
customer
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0254
Yeah.
customer: And the rest is history. Like, John was one of my best friends, partners, very different from me, yin-yang. Like, his personality and my personality complemented, but we knew we had each other's back. Like, completely different temperaments and personalities. He's very operational. I was very creative and mar...
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0255
One of the things that I learned is that all of us are deeply insecure, and it certainly happened to me along the way in my early years where I wanted to find somebody that was like me and that was not better than me. Subconsciously. I don't think I consciously said that. But when you win is when you find people that a...
agent: So did you have a s- a, a COO as well or, or basically was John as president the COO? customer: He was the COO and president. And also, to be fair, these titles are silly. Like, he was a co-CEO. He was a co-president. Like, we were running the show together. agent: Yeah.
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low
Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
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How were you, like, coming up with different innovations and different products? Because, I mean, eventually you'd have chocolate-dipped bars and then oat bars and all kinds of different bars, but how were you developing those ideas? Because you can't just have one product and hope that that's gonna, you know, build a ...
customer: He was the COO and president. And also, to be fair, these titles are silly. Like, he was a co-CEO. He was a co-president. Like, we were running the show together. agent: Yeah. customer: One of the things that I learned is that all of us are deeply insecure, and it certainly happened to me along the way in my ...
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agent
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0257
I think one of the things that made us succeed the most is to initially Stay focused and disciplined because what happened in my PeaceWorks years is I was taught that you just grow by extending your shelf presence.
agent: Yeah. customer: One of the things that I learned is that all of us are deeply insecure, and it certainly happened to me along the way in my early years where I wanted to find somebody that was like me and that was not better than me. Subconsciously. I don't think I consciously said that. But when you win is when...
3,721.764
3,734.416
customer
eng
en
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founder
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0258
Yeah.
customer: One of the things that I learned is that all of us are deeply insecure, and it certainly happened to me along the way in my early years where I wanted to find somebody that was like me and that was not better than me. Subconsciously. I don't think I consciously said that. But when you win is when you find peo...
3,734.416
3,734.656
agent
eng
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unknown
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0259
And so I have three spreads, then six spreads, then nine spreads, then 15 spreads, and eventually some of our products really did not live up to the quality of the original products, and that hurt the brand. And I learned a hard lesson that if you disappoint a consumer once, they're not just gonna not try that 15th pro...
agent: How were you, like, coming up with different innovations and different products? Because, I mean, eventually you'd have chocolate-dipped bars and then oat bars and all kinds of different bars, but how were you developing those ideas? Because you can't just have one product and hope that that's gonna, you know, b...
3,734.656
3,792.856
customer
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en
unknown
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0260
Mm.
customer: I think one of the things that made us succeed the most is to initially Stay focused and disciplined because what happened in my PeaceWorks years is I was taught that you just grow by extending your shelf presence. agent: Yeah. customer: And so I have three spreads, then six spreads, then nine spreads, then 1...
3,792.856
3,793.016
agent
eng
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0261
And if you're giving people different promises each day, then they don't know what to get, then the brand is worthless. So we really need to understand what we are and what we're not. Healthy, tasty, socially impactful. And also guardrails up behind the scenes were like, a product should not contain more than this rati...
agent: Yeah. customer: And so I have three spreads, then six spreads, then nine spreads, then 15 spreads, and eventually some of our products really did not live up to the quality of the original products, and that hurt the brand. And I learned a hard lesson that if you disappoint a consumer once, they're not just gonn...
3,793.016
3,828.216
customer
eng
en
unknown
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0262
Mm.
customer: And so I have three spreads, then six spreads, then nine spreads, then 15 spreads, and eventually some of our products really did not live up to the quality of the original products, and that hurt the brand. And I learned a hard lesson that if you disappoint a consumer once, they're not just gonna not try tha...
3,828.216
3,828.616
agent
eng
pt
unknown
host
0
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0263
And also many times, Guy, having the humility to not launch something that doesn't exceed expectations. Like, we spent two or three years designing a product where we were gonna have yogurt with granola on top.
agent: Mm. customer: And if you're giving people different promises each day, then they don't know what to get, then the brand is worthless. So we really need to understand what we are and what we're not. Healthy, tasty, socially impactful. And also guardrails up behind the scenes were like, a product should not contai...
3,828.616
3,841.476
customer
eng
en
unknown
host
0
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1
high
Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0264
Mm.
customer: And if you're giving people different promises each day, then they don't know what to get, then the brand is worthless. So we really need to understand what we are and what we're not. Healthy, tasty, socially impactful. And also guardrails up behind the scenes were like, a product should not contain more than...
3,841.476
3,841.776
agent
eng
pt
unknown
host
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
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1
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0265
And when we tried it in the marketplace, it w- it did fine, but it didn't do great, and that's, by the way, the hardest thing. If, if the product sucks, [laughs] then it's easy to kill it. And if it does great, then of course you launch it, but what if it's a 6 out of 10?
agent: Mm. customer: And also many times, Guy, having the humility to not launch something that doesn't exceed expectations. Like, we spent two or three years designing a product where we were gonna have yogurt with granola on top. agent: Mm.
3,841.776
3,855.896
customer
eng
en
unknown
other
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high
Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0266
Mm.
customer: And also many times, Guy, having the humility to not launch something that doesn't exceed expectations. Like, we spent two or three years designing a product where we were gonna have yogurt with granola on top. agent: Mm. customer: And when we tried it in the marketplace, it w- it did fine, but it didn't do g...
3,855.896
3,856.635
agent
eng
pt
unknown
host
0
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0267
Do you have the discipline to say that's not good enough?
agent: Mm. customer: And when we tried it in the marketplace, it w- it did fine, but it didn't do great, and that's, by the way, the hardest thing. If, if the product sucks, [laughs] then it's easy to kill it. And if it does great, then of course you launch it, but what if it's a 6 out of 10? agent: Mm.
3,856.635
3,858.876
customer
eng
en
unknown
host
0
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0268
You know, KIND Bars by 2012 already was doing $120 million in sales, and it was just growing. And eventually, you attracted interest from Mars, who purchased a minority stake in 2017, eventually would buy it out, um, for billions of dollars in 2020.
customer: And when we tried it in the marketplace, it w- it did fine, but it didn't do great, and that's, by the way, the hardest thing. If, if the product sucks, [laughs] then it's easy to kill it. And if it does great, then of course you launch it, but what if it's a 6 out of 10? agent: Mm. customer: Do you have the ...
3,859.996
3,878.256
agent
eng
en
unknown
host
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
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0
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0269
Well, they bought a controlling stake in 2020, and then they bought the rest of it in December 2024.
agent: Mm. customer: Do you have the discipline to say that's not good enough? agent: You know, KIND Bars by 2012 already was doing $120 million in sales, and it was just growing. And eventually, you attracted interest from Mars, who purchased a minority stake in 2017, eventually would buy it out, um, for billions of d...
3,878.256
3,884.496
customer
eng
en
unknown
other
0
0
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0
0
0
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0
0
0
0
0
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1
high
Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0270
2024, okay. And, um, you know, [laughs] it's just an amazing outcome, and I, I can't imagine that you e- even hesitated, right? Because w- I, I imagine from your perspective, the things you could do with billions of dollars were, you know, much bigger than what you could do without it.
customer: Do you have the discipline to say that's not good enough? agent: You know, KIND Bars by 2012 already was doing $120 million in sales, and it was just growing. And eventually, you attracted interest from Mars, who purchased a minority stake in 2017, eventually would buy it out, um, for billions of dollars in 2...
3,884.496
3,905.016
agent
eng
en
unknown
other
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0271
Yeah, but I hesitated a ton till the very last minute. What drove us to start on this journey was the fear that we were gonna lose control of our brand internationally. We were at a trade show in, at the Natural Products Expo in Anaheim.
agent: You know, KIND Bars by 2012 already was doing $120 million in sales, and it was just growing. And eventually, you attracted interest from Mars, who purchased a minority stake in 2017, eventually would buy it out, um, for billions of dollars in 2020. customer: Well, they bought a controlling stake in 2020, and th...
3,905.016
3,921.296
customer
eng
en
unknown
founder
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0272
Mm-hmm.
customer: Well, they bought a controlling stake in 2020, and then they bought the rest of it in December 2024. agent: 2024, okay. And, um, you know, [laughs] it's just an amazing outcome, and I, I can't imagine that you e- even hesitated, right? Because w- I, I imagine from your perspective, the things you could do wit...
3,921.296
3,921.756
agent
eng
vi
unknown
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct