Datasets:
quablab
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how-i-build-this-coded

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https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0500
But your runway was not very long.
customer: I was doing all the customer support initially, and then eventually the rest of my team told me my English wasn't good enough, so. [laughs] agent: [laughs] By the way, how are you paying people? customer: Uh, this was now after we got, uh, angel investment. I was still wasn't taking salary. Um, um-
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No, it's... But there was income now. It, it was, it was, we were still burning, but it was, it, it got slower and slower.
agent: [laughs] By the way, how are you paying people? customer: Uh, this was now after we got, uh, angel investment. I was still wasn't taking salary. Um, um- agent: But your runway was not very long.
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Because there was c- income coming in from subscribers.
customer: Uh, this was now after we got, uh, angel investment. I was still wasn't taking salary. Um, um- agent: But your runway was not very long. customer: No, it's... But there was income now. It, it was, it was, we were still burning, but it was, it, it got slower and slower.
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Yeah.
agent: But your runway was not very long. customer: No, it's... But there was income now. It, it was, it was, we were still burning, but it was, it, it got slower and slower. agent: Because there was c- income coming in from subscribers.
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Okay.
customer: No, it's... But there was income now. It, it was, it was, we were still burning, but it was, it, it got slower and slower. agent: Because there was c- income coming in from subscribers. customer: Yeah.
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Exactly. So I go back, and then we're talking 2008, so Lehman Brothers at some point. Um, now the world was falling apart.
agent: Because there was c- income coming in from subscribers. customer: Yeah. agent: Okay.
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Lehman Brothers collapsed, the markets collapsed, 2008. You've got term sheets that you've kind of rejected, and now you're about to face a global financial crisis.
customer: Yeah. agent: Okay. customer: Exactly. So I go back, and then we're talking 2008, so Lehman Brothers at some point. Um, now the world was falling apart.
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[laughs] So basically, I got this, um, around this time, notice that term sheets will no longer be honored [laughs] because-
agent: Okay. customer: Exactly. So I go back, and then we're talking 2008, so Lehman Brothers at some point. Um, now the world was falling apart. agent: Lehman Brothers collapsed, the markets collapsed, 2008. You've got term sheets that you've kind of rejected, and now you're about to face a global financial crisis.
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Wow
customer: Exactly. So I go back, and then we're talking 2008, so Lehman Brothers at some point. Um, now the world was falling apart. agent: Lehman Brothers collapsed, the markets collapsed, 2008. You've got term sheets that you've kind of rejected, and now you're about to face a global financial crisis. customer: [laug...
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... everyone needs to tighten belts, and so on. Basically, initially, I thought we were toast.
agent: Lehman Brothers collapsed, the markets collapsed, 2008. You've got term sheets that you've kind of rejected, and now you're about to face a global financial crisis. customer: [laughs] So basically, I got this, um, around this time, notice that term sheets will no longer be honored [laughs] because- agent: Wow
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When we come back after the break, how the global recession actually turned out to be a huge opportunity for Shopify, and how Tobi Lütke learned to do the job of CEO, a job he never wanted in the first place. Stay with us. I'm Guy Raz, and you're listening to How I Built This. Work can be a little weird. I've had plent...
customer: [laughs] So basically, I got this, um, around this time, notice that term sheets will no longer be honored [laughs] because- agent: Wow customer: ... everyone needs to tighten belts, and so on. Basically, initially, I thought we were toast.
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People who lost their jobs could reach for their own independence, uh, and engage in entrepreneurship using Shopify, and they said, "Why don't I give this a go? Like, I'm gonna try this thing I always wanted to try," right?
agent: Wow customer: ... everyone needs to tighten belts, and so on. Basically, initially, I thought we were toast. agent: When we come back after the break, how the global recession actually turned out to be a huge opportunity for Shopify, and how Tobi Lütke learned to do the job of CEO, a job he never wanted in the f...
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Wow.
customer: ... everyone needs to tighten belts, and so on. Basically, initially, I thought we were toast. agent: When we come back after the break, how the global recession actually turned out to be a huge opportunity for Shopify, and how Tobi Lütke learned to do the job of CEO, a job he never wanted in the first place....
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"I'm, I'm going, like, uh-"
agent: When we come back after the break, how the global recession actually turned out to be a huge opportunity for Shopify, and how Tobi Lütke learned to do the job of CEO, a job he never wanted in the first place. Stay with us. I'm Guy Raz, and you're listening to How I Built This. Work can be a little weird. I've ha...
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I mean, did you see, start to see users and, and subscribers start to tick up?
customer: People who lost their jobs could reach for their own independence, uh, and engage in entrepreneurship using Shopify, and they said, "Why don't I give this a go? Like, I'm gonna try this thing I always wanted to try," right? agent: Wow. customer: "I'm, I'm going, like, uh-"
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Yes.
agent: Wow. customer: "I'm, I'm going, like, uh-" agent: I mean, did you see, start to see users and, and subscribers start to tick up?
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You saw, you saw measurable change in 2008, 2009?
customer: "I'm, I'm going, like, uh-" agent: I mean, did you see, start to see users and, and subscribers start to tick up? customer: Yes.
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We thought the numbers would fall off a cliff, and what they actually did is they started climbing-
agent: I mean, did you see, start to see users and, and subscribers start to tick up? customer: Yes. agent: You saw, you saw measurable change in 2008, 2009?
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That's amazing
customer: Yes. agent: You saw, you saw measurable change in 2008, 2009? customer: We thought the numbers would fall off a cliff, and what they actually did is they started climbing-
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... and accelerating.
agent: You saw, you saw measurable change in 2008, 2009? customer: We thought the numbers would fall off a cliff, and what they actually did is they started climbing- agent: That's amazing
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So you had... You, you just anticipated a completely different outcome.
customer: We thought the numbers would fall off a cliff, and what they actually did is they started climbing- agent: That's amazing customer: ... and accelerating.
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Yes. I, I was ready to think about how to-
agent: That's amazing customer: ... and accelerating. agent: So you had... You, you just anticipated a completely different outcome.
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Shutter the thing
customer: ... and accelerating. agent: So you had... You, you just anticipated a completely different outcome. customer: Yes. I, I was ready to think about how to-
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... tell people that I can't meet payroll at some point. And, uh, and instead, basically in 2009, the company now hit first time sort of cash flow neutral. Like, we can ride out whatever downturn this is-
agent: So you had... You, you just anticipated a completely different outcome. customer: Yes. I, I was ready to think about how to- agent: Shutter the thing
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Mm-hmm
customer: Yes. I, I was ready to think about how to- agent: Shutter the thing customer: ... tell people that I can't meet payroll at some point. And, uh, and instead, basically in 2009, the company now hit first time sort of cash flow neutral. Like, we can ride out whatever downturn this is-
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... and start thinking about long-term investment, like infrastructure projects and so on again.
agent: Shutter the thing customer: ... tell people that I can't meet payroll at some point. And, uh, and instead, basically in 2009, the company now hit first time sort of cash flow neutral. Like, we can ride out whatever downturn this is- agent: Mm-hmm
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infrastructure projects
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Right. Okay, meantime, you are the CEO. How are you doing as the CEO of the company?
customer: ... tell people that I can't meet payroll at some point. And, uh, and instead, basically in 2009, the company now hit first time sort of cash flow neutral. Like, we can ride out whatever downturn this is- agent: Mm-hmm customer: ... and start thinking about long-term investment, like infrastructure projects a...
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[laughs] I don't... Uh, n- I, not good. Uh, I mean, my team was very, very patient with me. There was a lot to learn. It's a t- it's a, it's a very subtle job. Uh, and, you know, wonderful things about computers is when you tell them what to do, they'll keep doing it, and they'll do it forever until you stop.
agent: Mm-hmm customer: ... and start thinking about long-term investment, like infrastructure projects and so on again. agent: Right. Okay, meantime, you are the CEO. How are you doing as the CEO of the company?
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my team was very, very patient with me
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Right, right.
customer: ... and start thinking about long-term investment, like infrastructure projects and so on again. agent: Right. Okay, meantime, you are the CEO. How are you doing as the CEO of the company? customer: [laughs] I don't... Uh, n- I, not good. Uh, I mean, my team was very, very patient with me. There was a lot to ...
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Like, turns out humans are not like that.
agent: Right. Okay, meantime, you are the CEO. How are you doing as the CEO of the company? customer: [laughs] I don't... Uh, n- I, not good. Uh, I mean, my team was very, very patient with me. There was a lot to learn. It's a t- it's a, it's a very subtle job. Uh, and, you know, wonderful things about computers is whe...
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Humans are different, yes.
customer: [laughs] I don't... Uh, n- I, not good. Uh, I mean, my team was very, very patient with me. There was a lot to learn. It's a t- it's a, it's a very subtle job. Uh, and, you know, wonderful things about computers is when you tell them what to do, they'll keep doing it, and they'll do it forever until you stop....
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Yes. [laughs] Uh, so, so it was a very s- l- large learning curve. And, uh, I would say 2009 to 2010, I truly held the company back from what it could have and should have probably become
agent: Right, right. customer: Like, turns out humans are not like that. agent: Humans are different, yes.
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0532
You held it back.
customer: Like, turns out humans are not like that. agent: Humans are different, yes. customer: Yes. [laughs] Uh, so, so it was a very s- l- large learning curve. And, uh, I would say 2009 to 2010, I truly held the company back from what it could have and should have probably become
2,939.48
2,940.58
agent
eng
en
unknown
host
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0533
Yeah.
agent: Humans are different, yes. customer: Yes. [laughs] Uh, so, so it was a very s- l- large learning curve. And, uh, I would say 2009 to 2010, I truly held the company back from what it could have and should have probably become agent: You held it back.
2,940.58
2,940.8
customer
eng
id
unknown
other
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0534
What do you mean?
customer: Yes. [laughs] Uh, so, so it was a very s- l- large learning curve. And, uh, I would say 2009 to 2010, I truly held the company back from what it could have and should have probably become agent: You held it back. customer: Yeah.
2,940.8
2,941.46
agent
eng
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unknown
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0535
Like, if, if you come from engineering, you know something's always a bottleneck, and, and the moment you remove that, something else becomes a bottleneck, and it's same goes for companies. At this point, I intentionally nee- slowed down the growth of a company a little bit just because I needed it to be manageable for...
agent: You held it back. customer: Yeah. agent: What do you mean?
2,941.46
2,966.8
customer
eng
en
unknown
other
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0536
And by this point, your revenue is over a million dollars a year-
customer: Yeah. agent: What do you mean? customer: Like, if, if you come from engineering, you know something's always a bottleneck, and, and the moment you remove that, something else becomes a bottleneck, and it's same goes for companies. At this point, I intentionally nee- slowed down the growth of a company a littl...
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2,970.18
agent
eng
en
unknown
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0537
Yeah
agent: What do you mean? customer: Like, if, if you come from engineering, you know something's always a bottleneck, and, and the moment you remove that, something else becomes a bottleneck, and it's same goes for companies. At this point, I intentionally nee- slowed down the growth of a company a little bit just becau...
2,970.18
2,970.31
customer
eng
tr
unknown
other
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0538
... right? But which sounds like a lot, but obviously you've got huge expenses, you've got a growing staff.
customer: Like, if, if you come from engineering, you know something's always a bottleneck, and, and the moment you remove that, something else becomes a bottleneck, and it's same goes for companies. At this point, I intentionally nee- slowed down the growth of a company a little bit just because I needed it to be mana...
2,970.31
2,976.32
agent
eng
en
unknown
host
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0539
Yeah.
agent: And by this point, your revenue is over a million dollars a year- customer: Yeah agent: ... right? But which sounds like a lot, but obviously you've got huge expenses, you've got a growing staff.
2,976.32
2,976.6
customer
eng
id
unknown
host
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0540
Did you ever get the feeling like, "Oh my God, all these programmers and people are now, like, working for me and they're depending on this thing-
customer: Yeah agent: ... right? But which sounds like a lot, but obviously you've got huge expenses, you've got a growing staff. customer: Yeah.
2,976.6
2,983.12
agent
eng
en
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0541
Oh, yeah
agent: ... right? But which sounds like a lot, but obviously you've got huge expenses, you've got a growing staff. customer: Yeah. agent: Did you ever get the feeling like, "Oh my God, all these programmers and people are now, like, working for me and they're depending on this thing-
2,983.12
2,983.13
customer
eng
en
unknown
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0542
... and I, I don't know if this is gonna work"?
customer: Yeah. agent: Did you ever get the feeling like, "Oh my God, all these programmers and people are now, like, working for me and they're depending on this thing- customer: Oh, yeah
2,983.13
2,986.12
agent
eng
en
unknown
host
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0543
God, it's cr- it's crushing. It's a crushing responsibility, right? Like, it's, um... You're responsible for everyone who is there, right? And, and-
agent: Did you ever get the feeling like, "Oh my God, all these programmers and people are now, like, working for me and they're depending on this thing- customer: Oh, yeah agent: ... and I, I don't know if this is gonna work"?
2,986.12
2,993.91
customer
eng
en
unknown
other
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0544
Did people have families?
customer: Oh, yeah agent: ... and I, I don't know if this is gonna work"? customer: God, it's cr- it's crushing. It's a crushing responsibility, right? Like, it's, um... You're responsible for everyone who is there, right? And, and-
2,993.91
2,995.64
agent
eng
en
unknown
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0545
People had families. People had kids. Um, my family, like, it's not a wealthy family. Like, it's, it's... I mean, people gave me money they didn't really have. Like, up till this point, it was really just, you know, money from John Phillips, from my family, and then for the last year, from my father-in-law, who gave me...
agent: ... and I, I don't know if this is gonna work"? customer: God, it's cr- it's crushing. It's a crushing responsibility, right? Like, it's, um... You're responsible for everyone who is there, right? And, and- agent: Did people have families?
2,995.64
3,017.48
customer
eng
en
unknown
other
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0546
He was giving you money to meet payroll?
customer: God, it's cr- it's crushing. It's a crushing responsibility, right? Like, it's, um... You're responsible for everyone who is there, right? And, and- agent: Did people have families? customer: People had families. People had kids. Um, my family, like, it's not a wealthy family. Like, it's, it's... I mean, peop...
3,017.48
3,019.34
agent
eng
en
unknown
host
0
0
0
0
0
0
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1
high
Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0547
And we were living together and had dinner together. I, it's, it's amazing that this worked. I, I mean, I, I just couldn't believe he was doing that because he's like, like, he was a bureaucrat. This was his savings. Um, basically, he was putting his life savings into this money bonfire.
agent: Did people have families? customer: People had families. People had kids. Um, my family, like, it's not a wealthy family. Like, it's, it's... I mean, people gave me money they didn't really have. Like, up till this point, it was really just, you know, money from John Phillips, from my family, and then for the la...
3,019.34
3,036.49
customer
eng
en
unknown
founder
0
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he was putting his life savings into this
high
Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0548
Yeah.
customer: People had families. People had kids. Um, my family, like, it's not a wealthy family. Like, it's, it's... I mean, people gave me money they didn't really have. Like, up till this point, it was really just, you know, money from John Phillips, from my family, and then for the last year, from my father-in-law, w...
3,036.49
3,036.58
agent
eng
id
unknown
host
0
0
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high
Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0549
Um, everyone was just unbelievably supportive because they somehow believed in this idea.
agent: He was giving you money to meet payroll? customer: And we were living together and had dinner together. I, it's, it's amazing that this worked. I, I mean, I, I just couldn't believe he was doing that because he's like, like, he was a bureaucrat. This was his savings. Um, basically, he was putting his life saving...
3,036.58
3,042.98
customer
eng
en
unknown
founder
0
0
0
0
0
0
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1
0
0
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0
everyone was just unbelievably supportive because they somehow believed in this idea
high
Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0550
Did you have trouble sleeping at night?
customer: And we were living together and had dinner together. I, it's, it's amazing that this worked. I, I mean, I, I just couldn't believe he was doing that because he's like, like, he was a bureaucrat. This was his savings. Um, basically, he was putting his life savings into this money bonfire. agent: Yeah. customer...
3,042.98
3,044.9
agent
eng
af
unknown
host
0
0
0
0
0
0
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0
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high
Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0551
Uh, pretty often, yeah. You know, like, so one thing I found about the entrepreneurial journey, uh, or at least mine, is, um, you basically exist in two different states. There's the state of things are coming together, and I think if we do this, we're unbeatable, and the state of complete dread and we are dead. We're ...
agent: Yeah. customer: Um, everyone was just unbelievably supportive because they somehow believed in this idea. agent: Did you have trouble sleeping at night?
3,044.9
3,075.98
customer
eng
en
unknown
founder
0
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high
Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0552
Yeah
customer: Um, everyone was just unbelievably supportive because they somehow believed in this idea. agent: Did you have trouble sleeping at night? customer: Uh, pretty often, yeah. You know, like, so one thing I found about the entrepreneurial journey, uh, or at least mine, is, um, you basically exist in two different ...
3,075.98
3,076.1
agent
eng
tr
unknown
host
0
0
0
0
0
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0553
... and then a month another, and then eventually became a week and now a day, and now it, this can happen... Like, I can switch-
agent: Did you have trouble sleeping at night? customer: Uh, pretty often, yeah. You know, like, so one thing I found about the entrepreneurial journey, uh, or at least mine, is, um, you basically exist in two different states. There's the state of things are coming together, and I think if we do this, we're unbeatable...
3,076.1
3,081.229
customer
eng
en
unknown
other
0
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0
0
0
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1
high
Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0554
Hour by hour
customer: Uh, pretty often, yeah. You know, like, so one thing I found about the entrepreneurial journey, uh, or at least mine, is, um, you basically exist in two different states. There's the state of things are coming together, and I think if we do this, we're unbeatable, and the state of complete dread and we are de...
3,081.229
3,081.229
agent
eng
en
unknown
host
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
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1
high
Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0555
... three, three times before breakfast, you know? [laughs] Like, but at the bottoms, like, the, the bottoms are deep, and the implications of what failure means is, it just means so much. It changes everyone's life story to a significant degree, right?
agent: Yeah customer: ... and then a month another, and then eventually became a week and now a day, and now it, this can happen... Like, I can switch- agent: Hour by hour
3,081.229
3,094.8
customer
eng
en
unknown
other
0
0
0
0
0
0
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0
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0
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high
Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0556
How did you manage that? Did you go for long runs? Did you take Prozac? Did you-
customer: ... and then a month another, and then eventually became a week and now a day, and now it, this can happen... Like, I can switch- agent: Hour by hour customer: ... three, three times before breakfast, you know? [laughs] Like, but at the bottoms, like, the, the bottoms are deep, and the implications of what fa...
3,094.8
3,100.86
agent
eng
en
unknown
host
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
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1
high
Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0557
Yeah. [laughs]
agent: Hour by hour customer: ... three, three times before breakfast, you know? [laughs] Like, but at the bottoms, like, the, the bottoms are deep, and the implications of what failure means is, it just means so much. It changes everyone's life story to a significant degree, right? agent: How did you manage that? Did ...
3,100.86
3,100.889
customer
eng
id
unknown
host
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
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1
high
Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0558
What did you do?
customer: ... three, three times before breakfast, you know? [laughs] Like, but at the bottoms, like, the, the bottoms are deep, and the implications of what failure means is, it just means so much. It changes everyone's life story to a significant degree, right? agent: How did you manage that? Did you go for long runs...
3,100.889
3,102.28
agent
eng
cy
unknown
host
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
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1
high
Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0559
I, um, no, I basically just programmed, which actually often wasn't the best use of my time, and-
agent: How did you manage that? Did you go for long runs? Did you take Prozac? Did you- customer: Yeah. [laughs] agent: What did you do?
3,102.28
3,108.02
customer
eng
en
unknown
other
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
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1
high
Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0560
Did you ta- would you talk to Fiona about it?
customer: Yeah. [laughs] agent: What did you do? customer: I, um, no, I basically just programmed, which actually often wasn't the best use of my time, and-
3,108.02
3,109.94
agent
eng
en
unknown
host
0
0
0
0
0
0
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0
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high
Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0561
Yeah.
agent: What did you do? customer: I, um, no, I basically just programmed, which actually often wasn't the best use of my time, and- agent: Did you ta- would you talk to Fiona about it?
3,109.94
3,110.06
customer
eng
id
unknown
other
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
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1
high
Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0562
Your wife?
customer: I, um, no, I basically just programmed, which actually often wasn't the best use of my time, and- agent: Did you ta- would you talk to Fiona about it? customer: Yeah.
3,110.06
3,110.38
agent
eng
en
unknown
host
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
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0
0
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1
high
Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0563
Yeah, she was unbelievably supportive.
agent: Did you ta- would you talk to Fiona about it? customer: Yeah. agent: Your wife?
3,110.38
3,112.42
customer
eng
en
unknown
founder
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
1
0
0
0
0
she was unbelievably supportive
high
Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0564
Yeah. So, uh, um, around this 2009 period, you're, like, really wavering on this decision, right? Which is, like, do you build a, a nice, stable lifestyle business with Shopify or do you try again for, for big money, for VC money, and make this thing huge? So what happened?
customer: Yeah. agent: Your wife? customer: Yeah, she was unbelievably supportive.
3,112.42
3,131.72
agent
eng
en
unknown
host
0
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0565
Um, so I would look at my bank account, uh, multiple times a month and just compare, you know, what it was last time.
agent: Your wife? customer: Yeah, she was unbelievably supportive. agent: Yeah. So, uh, um, around this 2009 period, you're, like, really wavering on this decision, right? Which is, like, do you build a, a nice, stable lifestyle business with Shopify or do you try again for, for big money, for VC money, and make this t...
3,132.82
3,139
customer
eng
en
unknown
founder
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0566
Yeah.
customer: Yeah, she was unbelievably supportive. agent: Yeah. So, uh, um, around this 2009 period, you're, like, really wavering on this decision, right? Which is, like, do you build a, a nice, stable lifestyle business with Shopify or do you try again for, for big money, for VC money, and make this thing huge? So what...
3,139
3,139.1
agent
eng
id
unknown
host
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0567
And, uh, I... If it was going up, basically we said, "Okay, should we invest this in another team member or should we attempt marketing?"
agent: Yeah. So, uh, um, around this 2009 period, you're, like, really wavering on this decision, right? Which is, like, do you build a, a nice, stable lifestyle business with Shopify or do you try again for, for big money, for VC money, and make this thing huge? So what happened? customer: Um, so I would look at my ba...
3,139.1
3,147.84
customer
eng
en
unknown
founder
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0568
Hmm.
customer: Um, so I would look at my bank account, uh, multiple times a month and just compare, you know, what it was last time. agent: Yeah. customer: And, uh, I... If it was going up, basically we said, "Okay, should we invest this in another team member or should we attempt marketing?"
3,147.84
3,148.62
agent
eng
sv
unknown
other
0
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0569
So I finally said, "Okay, I'm gonna save and try five different ideas for marketing programs." We said if any of those meaningfully accelerate our growth, then I have to go fundraising again and actually go on the clock towards an IPO or to eventual exit.
agent: Yeah. customer: And, uh, I... If it was going up, basically we said, "Okay, should we invest this in another team member or should we attempt marketing?" agent: Hmm.
3,148.62
3,164.81
customer
eng
en
unknown
other
0
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0570
'Cause the money really you needed for marketing at this point.
customer: And, uh, I... If it was going up, basically we said, "Okay, should we invest this in another team member or should we attempt marketing?" agent: Hmm. customer: So I finally said, "Okay, I'm gonna save and try five different ideas for marketing programs." We said if any of those meaningfully accelerate our gro...
3,164.81
3,167.479
agent
eng
en
unknown
host
0
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0571
At th- this point, it, we were held back by not engaging in marketing.
agent: Hmm. customer: So I finally said, "Okay, I'm gonna save and try five different ideas for marketing programs." We said if any of those meaningfully accelerate our growth, then I have to go fundraising again and actually go on the clock towards an IPO or to eventual exit. agent: 'Cause the money really you needed ...
3,167.48
3,171.02
customer
eng
en
unknown
host
0
0
0
0
0
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0572
You got five projects, and you went to your team and you said, "You guys come up with something"?
customer: So I finally said, "Okay, I'm gonna save and try five different ideas for marketing programs." We said if any of those meaningfully accelerate our growth, then I have to go fundraising again and actually go on the clock towards an IPO or to eventual exit. agent: 'Cause the money really you needed for marketin...
3,171.02
3,175.56
agent
eng
en
unknown
host
0
0
0
0
0
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0573
We need, we need ideas. We voted on ideas. We, um, came up with things, and we tried them, um, and-
agent: 'Cause the money really you needed for marketing at this point. customer: At th- this point, it, we were held back by not engaging in marketing. agent: You got five projects, and you went to your team and you said, "You guys come up with something"?
3,175.56
3,181.96
customer
eng
en
unknown
other
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0574
What, and what worked?
customer: At th- this point, it, we were held back by not engaging in marketing. agent: You got five projects, and you went to your team and you said, "You guys come up with something"? customer: We need, we need ideas. We voted on ideas. We, um, came up with things, and we tried them, um, and-
3,181.96
3,183.4
agent
eng
en
unknown
host
0
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0575
All of them.
agent: You got five projects, and you went to your team and you said, "You guys come up with something"? customer: We need, we need ideas. We voted on ideas. We, um, came up with things, and we tried them, um, and- agent: What, and what worked?
3,183.4
3,184.28
customer
eng
en
unknown
other
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0576
They all worked.
customer: We need, we need ideas. We voted on ideas. We, um, came up with things, and we tried them, um, and- agent: What, and what worked? customer: All of them.
3,184.28
3,185.06
agent
eng
en
unknown
host
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0577
Every single one of them.
agent: What, and what worked? customer: All of them. agent: They all worked.
3,185.06
3,186.01
customer
eng
en
unknown
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0578
What were the ideas?
customer: All of them. agent: They all worked. customer: Every single one of them.
3,186.01
3,187.34
agent
eng
en
unknown
host
0
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0579
We did adverts. The, uh... This first took a little bit longer, but we, we released a book on, um, uh, the concept.
agent: They all worked. customer: Every single one of them. agent: What were the ideas?
3,187.34
3,194.46
customer
eng
en
unknown
other
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0580
Mm-hmm.
customer: Every single one of them. agent: What were the ideas? customer: We did adverts. The, uh... This first took a little bit longer, but we, we released a book on, um, uh, the concept.
3,194.46
3,194.78
agent
eng
vi
unknown
host
0
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0581
Um, we just tried diff- Like, we sponsored, um, actually a podcast. You know, like, every one of those, we, we tracked, and it's like these were directly mathematically trackable. Like, we made the money back in, like, five, six months of-
agent: What were the ideas? customer: We did adverts. The, uh... This first took a little bit longer, but we, we released a book on, um, uh, the concept. agent: Mm-hmm.
3,194.78
3,208.2
customer
eng
en
unknown
other
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0582
Wow
customer: We did adverts. The, uh... This first took a little bit longer, but we, we released a book on, um, uh, the concept. agent: Mm-hmm. customer: Um, we just tried diff- Like, we sponsored, um, actually a podcast. You know, like, every one of those, we, we tracked, and it's like these were directly mathematically ...
3,208.2
3,208.23
agent
eng
pl
unknown
host
0
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0583
... of these investments. And then we were like, "Okay, now we're not talking about fundraising anymore based on, isn't it cool that we're going after this market?"
agent: Mm-hmm. customer: Um, we just tried diff- Like, we sponsored, um, actually a podcast. You know, like, every one of those, we, we tracked, and it's like these were directly mathematically trackable. Like, we made the money back in, like, five, six months of- agent: Wow
3,208.23
3,216.68
customer
eng
en
unknown
other
0
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0584
Right.
customer: Um, we just tried diff- Like, we sponsored, um, actually a podcast. You know, like, every one of those, we, we tracked, and it's like these were directly mathematically trackable. Like, we made the money back in, like, five, six months of- agent: Wow customer: ... of these investments. And then we were like, ...
3,216.68
3,216.76
agent
eng
en
unknown
host
0
0
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0585
Now we're talking about I have a formula and I need to plug bigger numbers into the formula.
agent: Wow customer: ... of these investments. And then we were like, "Okay, now we're not talking about fundraising anymore based on, isn't it cool that we're going after this market?" agent: Right.
3,216.76
3,221.62
customer
eng
en
unknown
other
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0586
Yeah.
customer: ... of these investments. And then we were like, "Okay, now we're not talking about fundraising anymore based on, isn't it cool that we're going after this market?" agent: Right. customer: Now we're talking about I have a formula and I need to plug bigger numbers into the formula.
3,221.62
3,222.32
agent
eng
id
unknown
host
0
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0587
And so then picked up a phone, called the venture capitalist which really impressed me-
agent: Right. customer: Now we're talking about I have a formula and I need to plug bigger numbers into the formula. agent: Yeah.
3,222.32
3,227.38
customer
eng
en
unknown
other
0
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0588
Yeah
customer: Now we're talking about I have a formula and I need to plug bigger numbers into the formula. agent: Yeah. customer: And so then picked up a phone, called the venture capitalist which really impressed me-
3,227.38
3,227.39
agent
eng
tr
unknown
host
0
0
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0589
... and said, "Okay, you were right. This is a venture. I have data."
agent: Yeah. customer: And so then picked up a phone, called the venture capitalist which really impressed me- agent: Yeah
3,227.39
3,232.64
customer
eng
en
unknown
other
0
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0590
So you, you go back out to Silicon Valley. You convince a few VC firms to invest. You raise, I think, $7 million in-
customer: And so then picked up a phone, called the venture capitalist which really impressed me- agent: Yeah customer: ... and said, "Okay, you were right. This is a venture. I have data."
3,232.64
3,242.38
agent
eng
en
unknown
host
0
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0591
Yeah, so fairly modest. I mean, it's, this, this sound like massive numbers to us, to the years of us guys.
agent: Yeah customer: ... and said, "Okay, you were right. This is a venture. I have data." agent: So you, you go back out to Silicon Valley. You convince a few VC firms to invest. You raise, I think, $7 million in-
3,242.38
3,247.54
customer
eng
en
unknown
other
0
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0592
I bet to you guys it was insane.
customer: ... and said, "Okay, you were right. This is a venture. I have data." agent: So you, you go back out to Silicon Valley. You convince a few VC firms to invest. You raise, I think, $7 million in- customer: Yeah, so fairly modest. I mean, it's, this, this sound like massive numbers to us, to the years of us guys...
3,247.54
3,248.21
agent
eng
en
unknown
host
0
0
0
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0593
Yeah.
agent: So you, you go back out to Silicon Valley. You convince a few VC firms to invest. You raise, I think, $7 million in- customer: Yeah, so fairly modest. I mean, it's, this, this sound like massive numbers to us, to the years of us guys. agent: I bet to you guys it was insane.
3,248.21
3,248.24
customer
eng
id
unknown
founder
0
0
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0594
And, and do you remember what the valuation was?
customer: Yeah, so fairly modest. I mean, it's, this, this sound like massive numbers to us, to the years of us guys. agent: I bet to you guys it was insane. customer: Yeah.
3,248.24
3,249.88
agent
eng
en
unknown
host
0
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0595
Like 25?
agent: I bet to you guys it was insane. customer: Yeah. agent: And, and do you remember what the valuation was?
3,249.92
3,251.48
customer
eng
af
unknown
other
0
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0596
$25 million.
customer: Yeah. agent: And, and do you remember what the valuation was? customer: Like 25?
3,251.48
3,252.56
agent
eng
fi
unknown
other
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0597
Yeah.
agent: And, and do you remember what the valuation was? customer: Like 25? agent: $25 million.
3,252.56
3,252.86
customer
eng
id
unknown
other
0
0
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Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0598
At this point, once you t- you're bringing in $7 million, those venture capitalists are also buying a seat on the board.
customer: Like 25? agent: $25 million. customer: Yeah.
3,252.86
3,260.83
agent
eng
en
unknown
other
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
1
high
Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct
https://rss.art19.com/ep…00762e86fb433970
https://rss.art19.com/ep…e86fb433970_0599
Mm-hmm.
agent: $25 million. customer: Yeah. agent: At this point, once you t- you're bringing in $7 million, those venture capitalists are also buying a seat on the board.
3,260.83
3,260.83
customer
eng
vi
unknown
host
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
1
high
Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z
meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct