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[2127.98 --> 2132.24] what kind of array that is you can look at dollar foo as a vector event and know exactly what you're |
[2132.24 --> 2137.74] dealing with um that helps the static analysis type checker and it also helps you as a human |
[2137.74 --> 2143.40] understand what the code's doing um so i mentioned static analysis type checker that's sort of the |
[2143.40 --> 2148.64] workhorse of hack um this is a extra program that runs in the background on a developer workstation |
[2148.64 --> 2155.62] and it reads all of your code base constantly watches for updates on the file system and it looks |
[2155.62 --> 2160.54] at all of the code paths for data moving through your system so it says okay this is coming from |
[2160.54 --> 2164.06] dollar underscore request obviously it's a string because that's what comes from the user |
[2164.06 --> 2170.72] it's going into this function so this function apparently accepts strings does it accept other types |
[2170.72 --> 2176.10] elsewhere no okay we'll say this type this function accepts strings it's going from there into some |
[2176.10 --> 2181.90] function elsewhere and it goes down to other paths it gets concatenated whatever else if you've got any |
[2181.90 --> 2186.84] sort of type error in that system it's going to let you know that hey you should probably check this |
[2186.84 --> 2193.46] bit of code over here we've converted 98 or something percent like that of our code base of our you know |
[2193.46 --> 2199.50] 10 to the 7th lines of code to using hack by running a program that automatically goes through and makes all |
[2199.50 --> 2204.76] those changes so now when somebody works on facebook code they see this code that's fully type annotated |
[2204.76 --> 2212.72] has all these parameterized expressions to let them know what's moving through and we have a lot fewer |
[2212.72 --> 2218.08] problems of people saying oh i would refactor my little helper class that surely nobody else is using |
[2218.08 --> 2222.62] and then finding out that the site breaks because somebody was passing the wrong kind of data and it |
[2222.62 --> 2229.26] happened to work before so you know there's an old saying a servant you know can't serve two masters |
[2229.26 --> 2237.12] it seems like php's it generated themselves a nice or php facebook has this new uh maybe not a master |
[2237.12 --> 2243.90] but maybe a new toy and you said that 98 of your code base is now over onto it um being a subset or a |
[2243.90 --> 2251.10] maybe a superset of php is a superset is that fair to say well it's it's both a sub and a superset yeah |
[2251.10 --> 2257.28] it's like a side set i gotcha it's it's in a venn diagram or something right right so just your |
[2257.28 --> 2261.44] personal opinion where do you see you know facebook's interest lied long term but at the same |
[2261.44 --> 2268.26] time your facebook is investing into an open source public domain php spec so it seems like they have |
[2268.26 --> 2275.14] interest in both things where do you see that moving into the future um so there's a there's a |
[2275.14 --> 2280.12] few pieces of that answer so um as you see you can't serve two masters and that's a very fair |
[2280.12 --> 2285.74] statement on it how much attention are we really paying to the regular php side of things well a |
[2285.74 --> 2290.54] language is more than just its syntax right it's also the whole runtime that comes behind it and php |
[2290.54 --> 2296.20] has a massive runtime library um those are completely shared in common so you know we're obviously taking |
[2296.20 --> 2303.32] good care of those uh in common the other half of that is um a lot of the extra features that go into |
[2303.32 --> 2309.60] hack are actually just development time features um they're not necessarily used in the runtime |
[2309.60 --> 2316.22] some pieces of them are but not all of them so what works for hack works equally well for php |
[2316.22 --> 2321.08] um we want to make sure that we still pass the conformance suite and we're still behaving the way |
[2321.08 --> 2330.20] php expects but we can we can work on hack without losing sight of php um modulo those those sort of |
[2330.20 --> 2340.32] missing things gotcha um you know we we kind of rely on external users to tell us when we're doing php |
[2340.32 --> 2346.10] wrong at this point because we are all hack um but we do have you know tens of thousands of tests that |
[2346.10 --> 2351.50] run on every single diff so hopefully we're finding most of those things ourselves and what was the |
[2351.50 --> 2360.18] other half of your question i've already paged out so did i forget about it oh i think it's i think |
[2360.18 --> 2365.12] the the kind of maybe the the leave behind on that one might be just that you've got kind of these |
[2365.12 --> 2371.68] two parallels you're running and to some it seems like maybe it's a competitor and to some um they |
[2371.68 --> 2376.42] can clearly see what you just described there which was this sort of parallel effort and it's sort of |
[2376.42 --> 2382.70] like sugar on top instead of like a competitor and the squashing well i mean hack is not meant to be |
[2382.70 --> 2389.48] a completely new language it's meant it's meant to be um something that can live alongside php and in fact |
[2389.48 --> 2394.12] in most cases it kind of has to uh one of the things hacks doesn't let you do is have any top |
[2394.12 --> 2400.78] level code well your entry point can't actually launch without top level code so there has to be |
[2400.78 --> 2408.14] a php file in there somewhere um and it's it's about giving the developer the opportunity to use |
[2408.14 --> 2414.28] as much or as little of that functionality as they want to and one other thing i think that's kind of |
[2414.28 --> 2422.22] neat about hack is just i think the the hacker hack culture that facebook has propped up and just how |
[2422.22 --> 2430.48] how um i guess how awesome it is i guess in a sense to say that you you get not only to do some |
[2430.48 --> 2436.88] really awesome stuff um for developers across the world worldwide um but you also get to come up with |
[2436.88 --> 2441.68] a language that's kind of named after your mantra which to me is just like completes the world you know |
[2441.68 --> 2446.86] yeah at the end of the day that's that's pretty much um so so the length the name of the language |
[2446.86 --> 2453.28] that's another story um it's a it's in a lot of our opinions like and even internally it's a horrible |
[2453.28 --> 2459.22] name for a language because how do you google that right yeah i was thinking well that's great now the |
[2459.22 --> 2463.96] NSA is watching me because i've talked about hacking something um they're already watching so |
[2463.96 --> 2470.64] well they're watching us certainly um oh god somebody's gonna read something into that no i |
[2470.64 --> 2476.66] did not mean anything by that tell us more i already started just kidding i just i just created that out |
[2476.66 --> 2484.32] anytime you and i think this natural addition of lang after whatever it is so foo lang hack lang |
[2484.32 --> 2488.22] php lang that makes sense you've got sas lang you know all these other different |
[2488.22 --> 2493.30] ruby langs so the the addition of lang kind of helps maybe keep the NSA at bay |
[2493.30 --> 2498.72] well i mean it certainly is the same same problem that go ran into how generic is the word go right |
[2498.72 --> 2504.34] right yeah it's a movie it's a drug it's a verb it's a game whoa there's a drug called go |
[2504.34 --> 2508.40] yeah i think i don't know i'm not on the kids these days |
[2508.40 --> 2516.24] if you're gonna read into that yes we're definitely catching echelon's attention at this point |
[2516.24 --> 2520.82] well sarah you know the the one other thing i wanted to mention and you kind of did it a little |
[2520.82 --> 2525.16] tiny bit and i think i have to give you a little bit of applause because you seem to be pretty humble |
[2525.16 --> 2531.50] about um maybe either the fact that we didn't allow you to give you yourself a proper intro in |
[2531.50 --> 2535.50] the front of the show but um i think it's awesome that you've written this really awesome book |
[2535.50 --> 2541.06] extending and embedding php uh you've been involved in the php community for a very long time so you |
[2541.06 --> 2546.14] you definitely have uh the battle scars to to prove you are where you are for a reason |
[2546.14 --> 2552.10] and obviously facebook saw something in you because they hired you to work on making it fast |
[2552.10 --> 2558.24] which is pretty much what everybody wants facebook to be right uh it's what everybody wants all their |
[2558.24 --> 2565.42] sites yes um yeah that's that's a true statement just as well um i think you you mentioned a couple |
[2565.42 --> 2569.40] tangential conversations we could probably have i'm not sure if you want to bring them out or |
[2569.40 --> 2573.18] maybe take a minute or two just to touch on a couple of them you're welcome to but |
[2573.18 --> 2578.36] um yeah i think you mentioned uniform variable syntax and a couple others so feel free to refer |
[2578.36 --> 2584.02] for a minute or so um i'm not sure how much more i can say about uniform variable syntax as an example |
[2584.02 --> 2590.66] because i mean that that's just sort of um it was an rfc put forward as a guys we're doing this |
[2590.66 --> 2596.52] kind of clowny how can we fix this without breaking all the code out there um which is really what the |
[2596.52 --> 2602.22] the consternation on that particular subject has come down to you know um people are expecting |
[2602.22 --> 2606.44] their expressions to work a certain way because they've always worked a certain way they maybe |
[2606.44 --> 2611.32] even be muttering about it and saying why do i have to put extra parentheses or why do i have to |
[2611.32 --> 2618.46] do weird things for this language that doesn't understand order of precedence um at the same time that |
[2618.46 --> 2624.18] could exist and if we just like introduce that in like 5.7 or something like that there would be |
[2624.18 --> 2629.66] uproar because stuff would break um not my stuff i put ridiculous numbers of parentheses and braces |
[2629.66 --> 2637.88] everywhere um i've been told off for using too many parentheses in fact um but you know we there |
[2637.88 --> 2643.80] are there are warts on the language and everyone on the php internals list knows what those warts are |
[2643.80 --> 2649.50] because we get you know pelted with them on a regular basis php is a fractal of bad design it's a |
[2649.50 --> 2655.30] double claw hammer it's a silly language whatever it happens to be it tends to get a bad rap honestly i |
[2655.30 --> 2661.72] mean especially as uh i dare to say even like this but more modern ways or more modern things just |
[2661.72 --> 2666.88] meaning that they're newer a lot of things happening in the javascript space with node just with all |
[2666.88 --> 2672.08] sorts of other areas ruby is around 10 years i think it's just just turned 10 or just turned 15 or so |
[2672.08 --> 2678.00] now what rails is growing up and rails has turned 10 that's what it was um you know so like people kind |
[2678.00 --> 2682.26] of cling to these new things but there's been php for quite a while and it and it tends to kind of get |
[2682.26 --> 2686.64] this bad rap because it's been around for so long yeah and people almost look down upon it in some |
[2686.64 --> 2689.92] ways not that's why i really thought it would be important to have you on the show just to talk about |
[2689.92 --> 2694.48] the spec its importance and what you've been doing for the language and the community itself and then |
[2694.48 --> 2700.44] also kind of how that ties into facebook's approach to to making itself fast hhvm and everything |
[2700.44 --> 2704.68] else we've talked about so kind of neat there's a couple others do you want to mention abstract |
[2704.68 --> 2711.36] syntax tree or or the other two that you've mentioned that were uh side conversations um yeah i mean i i i i |
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