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• Importance of abstractions in building reliable JavaScript apps |
• Comparison between server-rendered apps and client-side rendering in Ember, with the latter having fewer complexities and better performance |
• Seasoned Rails developers tend to "calcify" into server rendering and may struggle with JavaScript ecosystem changes. |
• Client-side rendering and rich interactions can make JavaScript apps feel faster and more responsive than server-rendered ones. |
• Complexity and performance issues can arise from server rendering, especially in low-bandwidth situations. |
• Examples of well-written JavaScript apps mentioned include Skylight, Heroku's dashboard, Vine, Bustle, Discourse, Ghost, and Travis. |
• Ember's strong conventions make it easier to understand and modify large codebases, unlike many JavaScript projects. |
• Ember 2.0 is in development, with a focus on stability and simplicity, and big bets for the future based on community feedback. |
• The Ember project has been influenced by ideas from the React project, and has been adopting some of their concepts to simplify and improve the framework. |
• The big bang rewrite of Ember was initially thought to be a response to Angular's 2.0 announcement, but was actually planned months in advance as part of the core team's regular face-to-face meetings. |
• The core team's goal is to balance progress with stability, ensuring that new features do not break existing applications. |
• The team is using a methodology inspired by the browser vendors' six-week release cycle, where new features are added behind feature flags and then gradually moved to the beta and release channels. |
• This approach allows for continuous progress and improvement while maintaining backwards compatibility. |
• The speaker discusses the benefits of a six-week release cycle, citing how it balances stability and progress, and has led to a decrease in pressure on developers. |
• The speaker mentions the "train model" where features either make it into the current release or are pushed to the next one, and how this approach has been successful for Ember and other projects like Chrome and Firefox. |
• The speaker talks about the importance of making "big bets" and mentions some successful bets made by Ember, such as the adoption of ES6 modules. |
• The speaker explains the role of TC39, the technical committee responsible for making decisions about JavaScript, and their work on the ES6 module spec. |
• The speaker discusses the development of Ember CLI, a tool for building and managing Ember applications, and how it has evolved over time to meet the needs of the community. |
• The evolution of Ember's build tools and the introduction of Ember CLI |
• Ember CLI's impact on productivity and workflow |
• The importance of incremental rebuilds and optimizing build tools |
• Comparison to other frameworks and tools, such as Rails, React, and Angular |
• Lessons learned from other languages and frameworks, including Rust and Ruby |
• Integration of build tools and framework functionality |
• Challenges of building tool chains and optimizing rebuilds |
• Discussion about the benefits of React's programming model and its simplicity |
• Comparison of server-rendered apps and client-side rendering using React |
• Two-way data bindings in frameworks like Ember and Angular, and their potential misuse as an event bus |
• React's diffing algorithm and its ability to efficiently re-render components |
• Critique of Ember's two-way data binding approach and its potential for abuse |
• Comparison of productivity using Ember and React |
• Discussion of the importance of events as the primary method of communication in Ember 2.0 |
• The JavaScript community's tendency to search for a single, "one true solution" for problems leads to frustration and resistance to change. |
• The community's focus on finding a single solution leads to a "whip-around" effect, where each new solution is presented as the only correct one, causing previous solutions to be discarded. |
• Ember's longevity can be attributed to its willingness to learn from and incorporate good ideas from other frameworks, rather than trying to enforce a single solution. |
• The importance of contextually appropriate solutions, where different tools and techniques are used depending on the specific needs of the project. |
• The danger of "kicking puppy syndrome," where a good idea is abandoned in favor of a new one, causing unnecessary complexity and disruption. |
• The value of humility and willingness to admit when a previous solution was flawed, rather than trying to defend it at all costs. |
• Discussion on immutability in programming models and the importance of explicit opt-in for immutable data binding |
• Brief mention of Rust programming language and its influence on the discussion |
• Ember Data roadmap and plans for reaching 1.0 |
• Challenges faced by Ember Data in modeling relationships and dealing with distributed computing problems |
• Comparison of Ember Data with other libraries and frameworks in handling relationships and data syncing |
• Discussion of a problem in Ember Data that has been ongoing for 18 months |
• Description of Ember 2.0 and its goals, including making Ember a full front-end stack and more accessible to a wider range of developers |
• Tom's answer to who his programming hero is, which is Yehuda Katz |
• Discussion of why Yehuda Katz is a hero, including his ability to distill complex ideas and his historical knowledge of programming |
• Tom's humorous response to his own answer being biased |
• Discussion of Mats' programming language, Ruby, and his impact on the development of Ruby 1.9 and Python 3 |
• Tom's opinion that Mats is underrated and deserves more credit for his contributions to programming language design |
• Mention of a 2003 OSCon talk by Mats where he discussed how programming languages can influence how people think when programming |
• The upcoming video "Beyond Code" features interviews with attendees on which software has changed their lives the most, with Ruby being a common answer. |
• Matt's success is discussed, with the host reading his 2003 OSCon presentation and commenting on his clear vision and careful thought. |
• Tom Yehuda is praised for his articulate explanation of his work and his commitment to playing the long game in software development. |
• The importance of playing the long game in software development is discussed, with the host encouraging listeners to adopt a more patient and deliberate approach. |
• Web speed and the importance of shipping software with purpose and plan are also discussed. |
• The conversation concludes with a shoutout to sponsors and an announcement of the next guest, Dave Canada from buckets.io. |
[0.00 --> 15.10] welcome back everyone this is the changelog and i'm your host adam stekowiak this is episode 131 |
[15.10 --> 22.32] jared and i've talked to tom dale and yahoo the cats about the road to ember 2.0 today's show is |
[22.32 --> 27.38] sponsored by pager duty hired and digital ocean we'll tell you a bit more about hired and digital |
[27.38 --> 32.94] ocean later in the show but our new sponsor pager duty i'm excited to have him on board if you've |
[32.94 --> 37.18] ever gotten to work only to find something happen when you're out the server's down customers aren't |
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[44.02 --> 49.48] developers when an incident occurs pager duty notifies the right team and team member with |
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[59.02 --> 65.56] proactively so you don't have to be woken up at 2 a.m sign up for a 14 day free trial at pagerduty.com |
[65.56 --> 68.40] slash the changelog and now on to the show |
[68.40 --> 81.00] we're here with uh tom dale yahoo the cats myself and jared santo we're gonna have this awesome |
[81.00 --> 85.82] conversation about the road to ember 2.0 i think it's been a long road a fun road you got lots of |
[85.82 --> 90.68] things happening on not only the product side where you use ember but the open source side where |
[90.68 --> 96.14] you got this great direction and a lot of uh a lot of steam happening here so i want to welcome you guys |
[96.14 --> 102.46] to the show so say hello hey great to be here and i guess we'll start with tom tom give a quick intro to |
[102.46 --> 107.34] kind of who you are and what you do it uh at tilde and then also what you're doing for ember |
[107.34 --> 115.30] oh sure yeah so hey uh my name's tom i'm one of the co-founders at tilde and uh i guess i have been |
[115.30 --> 121.52] working at tilde i realize now a good part of my career which is really rewarding so we bootstrapped |
[121.52 --> 127.22] tilde started about three or four years ago and we work on a product called skylight and i'm very |
[127.22 --> 132.76] fortunate in that i get to work on mostly the the front end of that which is just a big ember app |
[132.76 --> 139.52] so it's really nice to be able to dog food your own open source so so much and then i guess in the |
[139.52 --> 145.04] the rest of my time my nights and weekends is spent working on ember so you who and i wrote ember |
[145.04 --> 150.02] like three or four years ago now um and that was actually coming off the back i worked on and |
[150.02 --> 155.80] maintained sprout core at apple and the startup i left apple to go to after that yeah and you who |
[155.80 --> 162.88] yeah so i guess i've been programming for a while now uh i think you have yeah yeah i actually for a |
[162.88 --> 167.12] long time i hadn't been programming for that long but now it's been a while uh basically since the |
[167.12 --> 174.80] beginning of like the jQuery days i got to miss all the sad sad years of uh dark days of the web i.e. |
[174.80 --> 180.18] winning i basically came on right after the end of that which was great the fun times yeah i mean |
[180.18 --> 186.20] it was still there's still a lot of work to do but it was no longer a den of despair was that when |
[186.20 --> 191.66] firefox had just kind of taken up some yeah firefox just came out jQuery just came out rails just came |
[191.66 --> 199.52] out right so like basically there was hope for for once um so i did that for a while um i also did a |
[199.52 --> 203.86] few different companies and tilda like tom said the reason why i was really excited to do tilda was |
[203.86 --> 209.26] that i had done a bunch of i've been part of at an early stage a lot of vc funded startups and i was |
[209.26 --> 215.52] finally in a position to start one and try to bootstrap and um honestly it's everything i it's |
[215.52 --> 223.16] very frustrating at times obviously like anything in life but uh as a whole it's it's pretty much |
[223.16 --> 228.32] everything i hoped it would be and it indeed lacks many of the things that were sad about uh vc funded |
[228.32 --> 233.32] startups and you guys started off with tilda was all consulting wasn't it or did you have product |
[233.32 --> 238.84] plans right away i think we always knew that we wanted to do the product but uh |
[238.84 --> 244.32] unfortunately you know you had mentioned that he was at several early stage startups none of us was |
[244.32 --> 249.90] independently wealthy so it's pretty hard to bootstrap a company when you're just you know |
[249.90 --> 261.20] making an engineer's salary um so we we use consulting as a mechanism to avoid the whole vc uh the whole vc |
[261.20 --> 267.24] fundraising death march which has been really really great uh although as you just said stressful at times |
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