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[3491.14 --> 3496.24] random and this is not uh people think oh well i just won't deal with that but not have not being |
[3496.24 --> 3501.00] able to link directly to something in an app in a javascript application is basically just a non-starter so |
[3501.00 --> 3507.22] very rapidly without even trying very hard you get into a situation where you have objects with |
[3507.22 --> 3512.88] relationships where the order that they come in is async is both asynchronous and not exactly determined |
[3512.88 --> 3516.64] but where you want them to be linked together and you want to be able to make changes to either |
[3516.64 --> 3520.72] side and have them reflected on the other side and basically the problem that i just described is the |
[3520.72 --> 3527.54] problem that we've been working on solving in ember data for the past 18 months before we tell off the |
[3527.54 --> 3533.62] the call and go into our super awesome question which is who is your programming hero to each of you |
[3533.62 --> 3541.04] uh maybe it might be best to close off by kind of summarizing what version 2.0 marks for ember i know |
[3541.04 --> 3545.24] you summarize it pretty well here in your rfc so i'm just sort of using that as a as a bullet plate |
[3545.24 --> 3549.92] either of you can take that but you know we got the jareds out there who've used the 1.0 and then |
[3549.92 --> 3555.16] i've used it all along but what's 2.0 and what's the onward uh direction so i'll give an i'll give an |
[3555.16 --> 3560.06] inarticulate answer and maybe tom can correct me if i get anything wrong but i think i think what 2.0 is |
[3560.06 --> 3565.96] is us taking a lot of efforts that have been going on in the community to build a full a complete |
[3565.96 --> 3571.68] front-end stack and making them part of ember itself so we have ember cli we have uh hopefully |
[3571.68 --> 3577.30] ember data and other pieces of the ecosystem and the ember inspector and basically saying these are |
[3577.30 --> 3581.18] all part of the first class experience of ember that every new ember developer should use |
[3581.18 --> 3588.60] yeah and i think uh kind of that goes along with that is that we really want to make ember as |
[3588.60 --> 3592.68] accessible as possible to the widest range of people uh widest range of people as possible |
[3592.68 --> 3600.00] and that means dropping the learning curve so ember 2.0 is really about thinking okay well we |
[3600.00 --> 3603.96] have two concepts here but i think there's one that can fit both scenarios so let's get rid of that |
[3603.96 --> 3609.60] extra concept uh basically really distilling it down to the essence of the framework as we've kind |
[3609.60 --> 3615.12] of as it's become more apparent over the past two years well we uh we always get some great answers |
[3615.12 --> 3621.28] when we ask these questions but uh feel free to to share a couple or just one uh it's really up to |
[3621.28 --> 3627.52] you but uh tom i'll start with you on can't pick each other though yeah that's cheating is that true |
[3627.52 --> 3633.32] actually i if i can get sentimental for a moment i have to say that yehuda is definitely my programming |
[3633.32 --> 3639.36] hero which is why it's such a privilege to get to work with him each day and i know that sounds like |
[3639.36 --> 3644.96] really biased because we started this company together but i have learned so much uh from him |
[3644.96 --> 3649.98] because i think he does a really awesome job distilling so many different people like he's |
[3649.98 --> 3655.26] constantly quoting maths to me he's constantly quoting dhh to me gang of four you know all of |
[3655.26 --> 3660.88] these historical things i have no idea how it keeps them all in his head so well yes i may be slightly |
[3660.88 --> 3667.68] better looking than yehuda absolutely only slightly that's gracious at the at the end of the day i i i have |
[3667.68 --> 3670.88] learned so much and for me it's a privilege to come into work every day and get to work with him |
[3670.88 --> 3678.64] sorry i feel like you need in another person no i think it's true it's you bro all right uh now i |
[3678.64 --> 3684.82] feel no it's not me now you're my how awesome that is a first though to have the hero on the show with |
[3684.82 --> 3691.64] the person who says it so sounds legit though it sounded sincere yeah it did i appreciate that tom |
[3691.64 --> 3697.82] all right who's your who's your hero so so my program hero is actually mats and i say this for |
[3697.82 --> 3703.50] a couple reasons so first of all i think mats is extremely uh underrated and i think part of that |
[3703.50 --> 3710.20] is the fact that mats is japanese and doesn't and speaks english uh with difficulty and he gets a lot |
[3710.20 --> 3715.88] of shit thrown his in his direction and i think he i could just imagine that it must get to him |
[3715.88 --> 3721.02] and but he doesn't he's not out on twitter battling the fight so people are just constantly |
[3721.02 --> 3725.96] talking about him as basically incompetent a moron idiot it's worst language designer ever worst |
[3725.96 --> 3730.84] implementer ever and i feel like uh people should give him a little more credit for building a |
[3730.84 --> 3736.92] language that is as successful as it is but i think i think other uh beyond that i think i looked i look |
[3736.92 --> 3743.52] at ruby 1.9 and i look at python 3 and people really really do not give mats enough credit for |
[3743.52 --> 3748.94] thinking through the requirements of making such a big breaking change um in a way that would get |
[3748.94 --> 3755.52] adoption and i i this is a topic for a whole different discussion but i think i think mats |
[3755.52 --> 3761.34] really does a really good job of thinking about how people use his software having some level of |
[3761.34 --> 3766.76] empathy for it and thinking about what you have to do to actually get people to move along um i'm not |
[3766.76 --> 3772.00] going to say max has never made any mistakes in his life obviously uh everybody building something as |
[3772.00 --> 3778.16] big and complicated as ruby makes mistakes and certainly mats is not the best vm author in the universe |
[3778.16 --> 3783.60] but i think mats has done a really great job of thinking about why people use software um my |
[3783.60 --> 3790.28] favorite uh my favorite thing he ever wrote or or presented is uh 2003 oscon talk which i can get you |
[3790.28 --> 3797.76] a link to where he basically talks about how uh just like human language inter uh controls how we |
[3797.76 --> 3803.18] think how human language makes us think in a particular way uh how programming language can do that |
[3803.18 --> 3808.56] and he talks about how he designed ruby to help people think clearly when they're programming and i i just |
[3808.56 --> 3814.28] think people don't give matt a lot of credit for being a really good language designer um when it comes |
[3814.28 --> 3820.12] to ruby i can say jared and i were just a keeper be weird in austin and uh it might have been a little |
[3820.12 --> 3826.22] bit biased because it was a ruby conference but we had uh we have this video coming out sometime soon |
[3826.22 --> 3831.24] called beyond code where we set pretty much interviewed um as many attendees as we possibly |
[3831.24 --> 3837.38] could on camera um so for once we're breaking into the video side of of i guess media creation but |
[3837.38 --> 3843.68] uh a resounding uh change jared the question was uh which software has changed your life the most |
[3843.68 --> 3849.00] summarizing that to a t but um everyone said ruby and all the things that was beautiful about the |
[3849.00 --> 3855.70] language so it's it's funny to hear you say how bad mask gets its criticism because he's japanese speaks |
[3855.70 --> 3861.80] slightly broken english and doesn't really translate that well but wrote a language that that helps |
[3861.80 --> 3867.34] programmers think in english so much better than they ever done before yeah and i think people just |
[3867.34 --> 3873.16] assume that a lot of a lot of people's success is is accidental and people i think say well maybe |
[3873.16 --> 3878.08] matt's in the right place at the right time but honestly reading that 2003 oscon presentation makes |
[3878.08 --> 3882.48] it clear to me that he was thinking very deeply very carefully about what he was trying to do |
[3882.48 --> 3886.96] we'll definitely get that that link in the show notes if you can dig that up and email it to us |
[3886.96 --> 3892.00] or text it to us or whatever let us know but uh we'll put that in the notes for sure well tom |
[3892.00 --> 3898.42] yahuda you guys are great um man i just sit back in awe you know tom you mentioned yahuda is one of |
[3898.42 --> 3902.18] your heroes i i don't often see my hero on here but you're definitely one of them yahuda because |
[3902.18 --> 3908.12] just the way you articulately explain what you do why you do it why the software should be a certain |
[3908.12 --> 3914.10] way and tom to what you mentioned on how he kind of um this isn't a yahuda party but |
[3914.10 --> 3920.18] but just the fact that like you you do you you quote the the greats you know so you you know |
[3920.18 --> 3925.24] take it like philosophers you keep those notes in your head you know to to make good software and you |
[3925.24 --> 3930.26] do it well if i might say the thing that's really astounding to me about yahuda is how much he's willing |
[3930.26 --> 3936.06] to play the long game so there are all of these open source projects coming to fruition right now you |
[3936.06 --> 3942.74] know with broccoli ember cli ember data es6 modules javascript promises ember itself all of these |
[3942.74 --> 3948.32] things you know being there i've seen him working on this stuff for four or five years like to me |
[3948.32 --> 3953.58] yahuda has such a crystallized vision in his head of what web development should be like and he also has |
[3953.58 --> 3959.66] the unrelenting energy and patience to work with people who are pretty obstinate to make that vision |
[3959.66 --> 3963.30] come true and to me that's just like a really astounding thing that's a quality that not a lot of people |
[3963.30 --> 3970.68] have i yeah i hope in general that if people feel moved by it that they think about playing the long |
[3970.68 --> 3974.66] game a little bit more i think programming could use a little bit more of it well you said the web |
[3974.66 --> 3978.76] speed earlier like as if we should just constantly break stuff which is good to a degree if you're |
[3978.76 --> 3986.06] trying to you know push a product but uh you know we shouldn't be so whimsical about how we ship it |
[3986.06 --> 3991.54] should be with purpose and plan and but at the same time to use your fc as a good example of |
[3991.54 --> 3996.16] listening to the community and adopting what works best and admitting when we're wrong and |
[3996.16 --> 4000.10] making changes as needed for the better of the community so and you can definitely i think you |
[4000.10 --> 4006.28] can gain a lot more momentum like gaining momentum takes time yeah and and if you do it slowly and |
[4006.28 --> 4012.56] carefully you gain a huge amount of momentum where you can definitely you can sprint out ahead really |
[4012.56 --> 4017.62] quick and then lose momentum if every six months you're asking people to do a whole new thing |
[4017.62 --> 4022.52] well the jared's mentioned earlier what to get you back on to talk about rust steve's definitely |
[4022.52 --> 4026.86] that would be awesome that calls well we've been wanting to have a conversation for a while but uh |
[4026.86 --> 4031.20] before we close off i want to give a quick shout out to three different sponsors that make this show |
[4031.20 --> 4039.20] awesome and possible aside from the guests of course um pager duty uh hired.com and digital ocean |
[4039.20 --> 4044.90] we're obviously hosted on digital ocean love those guys pager duty um keeps me from having to get up |
[4044.90 --> 4049.26] deep at night you know the call goes to the right person and hired uh you guys just awesome as well |
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