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[2077.58 --> 2082.74] that I love about it is that, um, for the most part you use the exact same calls in serve as you |
[2082.74 --> 2090.96] would in rails to do, you know, helper methods and things like that. Um, and middleman somewhat |
[2090.96 --> 2096.48] follows that they make some different decisions on certain things. I think one uses render and the |
[2096.48 --> 2103.68] other uses partial to like call out to, you know, yeah, that, that kind of bugged me when you don't |
[2103.68 --> 2111.52] at least adhere to other, I guess, uh, what do you call it? Like just patterns the way that other, |
[2111.52 --> 2116.44] you know, right. That, that had been set up. So I, I, you know, in that regard, if you're |
[2116.44 --> 2123.22] coming from rails, you know, I think serve still, for example, you know, right. But serve |
[2123.22 --> 2130.56] also has a hard time right now, uh, exporting certain projects. Like, um, there's more work |
[2130.56 --> 2136.88] to be done to make serve. Awesome. Um, and middleman is just much better architected. |
[2136.88 --> 2140.84] So where's serve at nowadays? Like, is it, uh, where's the priority for you on that? Is |
[2140.84 --> 2144.02] it something you're still working on? Um, |
[2144.02 --> 2156.40] it, I, every once in a while I will spend time on serve. Yeah. I, you know, part of it for |
[2156.40 --> 2164.56] me, part of it for me is, is that I've like serve works for me for prototyping rails applications. |
[2164.56 --> 2170.06] It like scratches that itch like really well. And middleman works for me for static sites, |
[2170.06 --> 2178.52] like really well. So where serve could grow is in becoming more like middleman, right? |
[2178.92 --> 2181.98] And that's not, that doesn't make any sense because there's already middleman. |
[2182.52 --> 2190.00] Well, but there's already middleman and, um, it's already solving that problem. So part, |
[2190.00 --> 2197.10] I don't know, I, you know, I've having started, I guess if you count serve two major open source |
[2197.10 --> 2204.02] projects, I'm more than content to let them die at this stage because of the amount of |
[2204.02 --> 2207.70] management that they take. Why would this set your track record, John? You create CMSs |
[2207.70 --> 2216.30] so they die or something like that. I, I don't know. I, I'm just saying that like open source |
[2216.30 --> 2222.56] is a ton of work. Um, it is a ton of work and it's, I'm happy when another tool that's |
[2222.56 --> 2225.34] better comes along and replaces something that I was working on. |
[2225.60 --> 2228.76] What does that, what does that happen then? I know we're kind of hanging out on the serve |
[2228.76 --> 2234.20] topic for a little bit, maybe too long, but, uh, bear with us listeners. But, uh, for serve, |
[2234.36 --> 2240.46] do you have issues coming in often? Do you have people that are like using it for production |
[2240.46 --> 2245.18] and you know, they're, they're bugging you about it? Is that, or is it, is it just kind |
[2245.18 --> 2245.48] of quiet? |
[2245.66 --> 2250.82] I mean, there's, there's, um, probably the biggest thing right now, right now is, uh, people really |
[2250.82 --> 2258.10] want export to work exactly as it does when it's serving the project. And unfortunately, |
[2258.92 --> 2267.94] um, because of the way rack middleware works and all of that, if you have certain things installed, |
[2267.94 --> 2275.46] it's not going to render your site exactly as you wrote it. Now, if you're just doing vanilla |
[2275.46 --> 2281.38] serve, it certainly will. Um, but if you started to do some customization, um, and all that, |
[2281.54 --> 2288.52] the export doesn't know how to read your config.ru to figure out what, what that extra middleware |
[2288.52 --> 2295.88] is doing kind of thing. Yeah. Um, so there's, there's some work that needs to be done basically |
[2295.88 --> 2302.26] to give serve a configuration file to store some of those things in, uh, so that it can |
[2302.26 --> 2306.84] use it when it's exporting, it can use the configuration part of it to figure out how to |
[2306.84 --> 2315.64] rewrite URLs or, or various things like that. Um, yeah. And, and then there's things that |
[2315.64 --> 2321.74] like, I mean, just comparing it to middleman, middleman just does so much better. Um, I mean, |
[2321.74 --> 2327.96] I love being able to like access in code every single page on my site and build navigation or |
[2327.96 --> 2333.44] do whatever I wanted. Whereas with serve, I would have to like write code to navigate the file system. |
[2334.38 --> 2342.70] And there's no concept of like front matter or anything like that. Um, so it's a much, |
[2343.12 --> 2345.48] much different system. |
[2345.48 --> 2351.10] We're going to take a quick pause and give a shout out to our sponsor FreshBooks. Now we use FreshBooks. |
[2351.16 --> 2355.42] We absolutely love FreshBooks. We couldn't do business without them. So I was super excited |
[2355.42 --> 2360.28] to hear that they were supporting five by five and the change log. So, um, we, we just kind of got |
[2360.28 --> 2366.60] through this tax season and I bet if you weren't using FreshBooks, your life was probably a bit of |
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[2404.16 --> 2410.10] available to you. And like I said, we use FreshBooks. Um, we do a lot of invoicing through |
[2410.10 --> 2417.78] sponsorships and partners and stuff like that. So, I mean, we would, I don't know what I would do |
[2417.78 --> 2422.16] if I didn't have FreshBooks. I just say it like that. I really don't. It's, it's the bee's knees |
[2422.16 --> 2427.94] to our business. And the sooner you start using FreshBooks, the sooner you can start focusing on the work |
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[2433.92 --> 2438.36] And for a limited time, you can try FreshBooks for free for 60 days. Uh, to get started, |
[2438.48 --> 2444.56] visit getfreshbooks.com now and enter the changelog in the, how did you hear about us section when |
[2444.56 --> 2449.62] signing up? Huge thanks to FreshBooks for sponsoring a five by five of the changelog. We |
[2449.62 --> 2456.22] absolutely love FreshBooks. See, I was never really a huge fan of, |
[2456.22 --> 2463.10] I guess the front matter all the time. Cause I was, uh, for, for a while there, I had to write |
[2463.10 --> 2467.18] everything in Hamill and I've since kind of like laid that down. I don't, I don't really, |
[2467.32 --> 2471.74] you know, I don't have to write everything in Hamill anymore. I used to be a diehard Hamill fan. |
[2471.78 --> 2476.18] Like I would not write it. And that's probably to my detriment that I wouldn't write it |
[2476.18 --> 2482.04] unless it was an Hamill. Um, but you know, some front matter mixed with Hamill, a Hamill file kind |
[2482.04 --> 2487.30] of, you know, your syntax highlighter kind of gets out of whack or whatever. But, um, yeah, I was, |
[2487.70 --> 2491.46] I liked the, the, the front matter though of middleman. I think, you know, we were able to |
[2491.46 --> 2495.78] like really extend things quite some, quite some bit and kind of going back to the SAS way. |
[2496.20 --> 2502.14] One of the cool things you were doing, um, with this latest version is, is, um, what was the, |
[2502.14 --> 2508.44] there's an article, I think it's in, um, it's still in a pull request for SAS three, three. |
[2509.38 --> 2516.48] Yeah. So we, we wrote one for, we wrote an article for SAS three, three. And what's awesome |
[2516.48 --> 2522.80] about this article from a technical perspective is, is that it has a completely different header |
[2522.80 --> 2530.28] from all the other articles, which is something that I want to experiment, uh, with is, um, writing, |
[2530.28 --> 2536.22] uh, or, or doing a little bit more art direction, I guess you could say with our articles. Um, |
[2536.60 --> 2543.96] and so there's some HTML code that goes along with that CSS, all of that. Um, and we couldn't have |
[2543.96 --> 2551.02] done that easily with something that wasn't a, uh, file-based kind of system. Um, I know there, |
[2551.02 --> 2557.86] there are some plugins for WordPress for shipping custom CSS with each article kind of thing. Um, |
[2557.86 --> 2563.02] you know, and I guess if you're writing a lot in HTML or other things like that, then, |
[2563.08 --> 2567.64] you know, you could use a plugin and do it in WordPress, but again, you end up with stuff in |
[2567.64 --> 2574.20] the database. And if you change something like, I don't know, there's just awkward relationship |
[2574.20 --> 2580.36] on sites like that where, um, you're kind of mixing code design with content and it's, |
[2580.36 --> 2586.90] yeah, not a perfect mix. Well, and what's, what's stored in the database and what's stored on, |
[2586.90 --> 2594.62] you know, actually in code. Um, and if you don't store it in your Git repository, it's stored in |
[2594.62 --> 2600.54] the database, then hopefully your database stores versions of stuff that you work on, but a lot of |
[2600.54 --> 2609.02] times it doesn't. And, uh, so, and then, and because we can work in pull requests, uh, that can |
[2609.02 --> 2614.12] sort of sit on its side with all the code changes that are needed. And then it can be merged in when, |
[2614.12 --> 2621.82] when SAS 3.3 drops, um, you know, we'll pull that article over and, um, you know, it'll, |
[2622.04 --> 2628.78] it'll work perfectly. Um, but until then we don't need all of that extra CSS and other stuff. Um, |
[2628.82 --> 2632.62] and the site will continue to, you know, function. So. |
[2632.76 --> 2636.94] And you were able to pull that, um, additional partial in for that kind of, like you'd mentioned |
[2636.94 --> 2641.08] that art directed kind of editorial style header, the different header, you were able to do that |
[2641.08 --> 2649.28] with just simple YAML or, uh, front matter. Right. Right. Yeah. The front matter concepts, uh, |
[2649.98 --> 2656.20] pretty, pretty powerful. You can add whatever you want to it in middleman and, um, then in your |
[2656.20 --> 2661.78] layout or whatever it is that you're, you know, you can check that front matter and, um, do something |
[2661.78 --> 2668.10] based off of that. Um, there are times too, like one of the differences between Nesta and middleman |
[2668.10 --> 2674.14] was that Nesta had the concept of page title. Is this right? Am I remembering this right? Or was |
[2674.14 --> 2680.62] that some sort of custom attribute that you put on there? I can't recall. I think it did have a... |
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