text stringlengths 0 1.17k |
|---|
[113.14 --> 118.92] well what makes you fantastically well um i am just really excited to have gotten over the hump on |
[118.92 --> 124.32] a dozen really annoying things that were on my plate this week after a two-week vacation |
[124.32 --> 129.14] wow yeah i saw on twitter you said you made it to friday and you were celebrating |
[129.14 --> 135.34] yep i celebrate every friday yes fridays are good days that we we had our sprints on friday we |
[135.34 --> 141.06] started going to one week sprints so fridays are good days is that working better were you doing |
[141.06 --> 147.84] two weeks previously we were yeah we i think the the shortness and the just a fast pace of of one |
[147.84 --> 153.58] week and it helps us bite-size things better gives us quicker iterations it's really helped us out a lot |
[153.58 --> 158.30] um helps our planning process i don't know just it seems like we just get through that quicker and we |
[158.30 --> 162.92] give ourselves breaks you know once a month we'll give ourselves like a a week to kind of catch up |
[162.92 --> 168.40] and you know three weeks on one week off kind of thing so that's cool man it's been cool yeah a |
[168.40 --> 176.38] little sidetrack there dev talk well justin we have you on the show uh we were uh to talk about linemen |
[176.38 --> 183.20] js amongst other things you've kind of been uh maybe a prolific would be the word uh open source |
[183.20 --> 189.76] contributor um i first found you i think uh because of some of your work with uh jasmine and |
[189.76 --> 193.72] some of the the testing tools that you've you've put out there so i've been using those for a long |
[193.72 --> 199.82] time but linemen seems to be um a bigger project that you're you're behind you're uh building and |
[199.82 --> 206.12] appreciate having you on i thank you i kind of want to kick off the conversation with quoting you to |
[206.12 --> 213.46] yourself um no that's always a good way so you can defend yourself uh no i have i cannot warrant |
[213.46 --> 220.28] anything that past me said past me was not a smart guy but we have it on tape so you have to stand by |
[220.28 --> 227.60] it um you said and this was recently i think you've even given talks on this uh as as recently as was it |
[227.60 --> 233.02] rails golf 2014 where the title of the talk is the quote that i'll say is that the rails of javascript |
[233.02 --> 239.24] won't be a framework um obviously we don't have time to go into your 30 minute discussion on that |
[239.24 --> 244.72] i know you have tons of details um around that sentence but maybe just kind of unpack it for us |
[244.72 --> 249.28] tell us what that means and why you say that and then how it kind of led into linemen if it did yeah |
[249.28 --> 256.02] so the the talk is broken up into two parts uh the first half is a discussion about uh application |
[256.02 --> 260.50] development as it is especially in this era where people are trying to build lots of uh you know |
[260.50 --> 264.68] whatever you want to call them fat client javascript applications meant to run in web |
[264.68 --> 270.34] browsers and then phone home to like you know a lightweight api on the back end um so just a |
[270.34 --> 273.94] discussion of like you know what's what's painful about that if you're using something like ruby on |
[273.94 --> 280.50] rails you know the monolithic aspect the fact that the sort of community has been uh gradually moving |
[280.50 --> 286.08] to node.js and ruby gems aren't you know uh quite quite quite so populated then the second half of the |
[286.08 --> 292.60] talk is like just like a basically like a a demo of how we've built lineman js to alleviate all of |
[292.60 --> 298.60] those problems with monolithic rails application development um but the the pivot in the middle |
[298.60 --> 305.84] i guess is maybe what the what the title is referring to which is right rails is um uh |
[305.84 --> 311.60] really fantastic for a couple reasons and i think that over the course of 10 years what we've learned is |
[311.60 --> 316.80] that uh some of the things that we initially loved about rails turn out to not be fantastic for like |
[316.80 --> 323.62] long-term long-lived projects um you know i break up rails uh responsibilities into sort of three |
[323.62 --> 331.00] categories there's the uh the build aspect right like all the rake tasks all of the confusingly uh |
[331.00 --> 337.60] task-like things that you have to type rails for instead of rake for um then there's the um |
[337.60 --> 343.62] uh uh actual application framework that's the the types that you're extending and the active support |
[343.62 --> 347.78] apis that you can just kind of reach for wherever you are in your app and so all the coupling between |
[347.78 --> 352.52] your custom application code with the framework code and all the lift that that gives you and then in the |
[352.52 --> 359.14] middle is just like uh uh sensible defaults that you don't have to specify and then conventions that we |
[359.14 --> 366.04] all just sort of follow socially like you learn about from a buddy or from a guide um and and as a |
[366.04 --> 371.00] result we don't have to repeat ourself from project to project and we don't succumb to uh what i might |
[371.00 --> 375.82] call like accidental creativity right which you see in a lot of other communities where it's like i've |
[375.82 --> 381.40] got this 500 line long grunt file over here i'll copy and paste it and i'll diverge it you know uh |
[381.40 --> 388.14] inadvertently um so when i look back on my experience with rails the the real the hardest thing to learn |
[388.14 --> 394.52] but the most valuable part was was sensible defaults and convention-driven design um the the application |
[394.52 --> 399.92] framework stuff has a lot of problems uh and the build stuff was really awesome in 2005 and it just |
[399.92 --> 406.74] has not progressed to to handle the sort of static assets we're building for the web very well um and |
[406.74 --> 411.48] so what i want to do is just like cargo call the really great stuff in the middle and then apply that |
[411.48 --> 417.18] to uh front-end web development um and what i'm finding is like in the node community that's like |
[417.18 --> 422.42] that's that's that's news to them right like they're they're very kind of unix velocity you want lots of |
[422.42 --> 428.72] different like an eclectic blend of tiny little modules to work with right as opposed to you know |
[428.72 --> 433.04] well here's just like a default project and then you can just specify how your project diverges from |
[433.04 --> 439.14] those defaults uh so culturally it's a it's a it's a you know i feel like it's a point of friction right |
[439.14 --> 443.26] like you got ruby s on one side who understand this but they've they're very much tied up in the |
[443.26 --> 447.30] ruby ecosystem and they don't want to leave it and then you have like because lineman's written in |
[447.30 --> 450.76] node.js you have node.js on the other hand where it's like all these people just like don't |
[450.76 --> 455.28] understand the cultural benefit of that but they do have the technical tasks and tools to to get |
[455.28 --> 462.12] awesome stuff done quickly so lineman comes into kind of like you said cargo cult what you thought |
[462.12 --> 468.28] were the good ideas and rails bring them over to the front end um via the command line and give that |
[468.28 --> 474.12] structure that we so desperately need that we're saying that's that's my hope and you know in |
[474.12 --> 479.36] practice at uh our agency uh test double where we're like you know a consultancy who builds a lot |
[479.36 --> 485.18] of apps uh what we we've been using lineman for for a couple of years now on most of our projects |
[485.18 --> 489.80] and my favorite thing about it is very similar to my favorite things about rails like i can hop into |
[489.80 --> 495.14] any one of our projects and i instantly know you know how to run stuff how to build stuff how to get |
[495.14 --> 499.82] the test running uh i know that it's already set up for travis ci out of the box and i can just push it |
[499.82 --> 505.60] um i i really love that uh if i look at somebody's application config i can just literally see like |
[505.60 --> 510.36] them declaring these are the ways that i'm not normal so i can understand what's unusual about |
[510.36 --> 514.60] their build and where their backends are and all their proxies and their server stubbing and stuff |
[514.60 --> 520.78] is all like you know really readily apparent um in fact if you want to uh kind of broaden the |
[520.78 --> 525.48] discussion just a little bit behind my tool i i got the chance to finally meet tom dale and |
[525.48 --> 531.62] yahuda katson person this year and as i've talked to them about their trials and tribulations and selling |
[531.62 --> 539.70] ember js outside of the rails community uh i feel like they're doing an analogous uh uh uh crusade |
[539.70 --> 544.06] from from the rails community's understanding of what makes a good application framework |
[544.06 --> 549.98] to you know no js land or or just to the web more broadly where people are kind of you know |
[549.98 --> 555.70] anti-frameworks because there's so much framework fatigue on the front end yeah and uh i think that |
[555.70 --> 559.40] they're trying to accomplish a lot of the same things especially when it comes to sensible defaults |
[559.40 --> 563.62] and and common conventions whereas my focus has been more on build tools as opposed to application |
[563.62 --> 570.34] framework design yeah so lineman itself not a framework it's a it's a tool and it works with |
[570.34 --> 577.16] the front end frameworks that you would want to use whether it be ember angular knockout perhaps all of |
[577.16 --> 581.94] the the popular javascript frameworks of the day um so it's not actually trying to solve the |
[581.94 --> 587.84] application uh framework problem or structure problem it's actually trying to solve the build tools |
[587.84 --> 594.38] problem it's a single responsibility principle thing yeah exactly so i mean if uh when you when |
[594.38 --> 599.52] you say lineman new project it's going to assume you've got a totally vanilla javascript and css app |
[599.52 --> 604.56] and and you just want to build it but as soon as you say like well i want to use ember then all you |
[604.56 --> 611.50] have to do is say npm tech tech save dev uh lineman ember and hit enter and it'll install you know |
[611.50 --> 616.32] a lineman ember plugin that will kind of behind the scenes totally dynamically without generating any |
[616.32 --> 622.56] cruft or crap in your project just modify the configuration and the tasks and the order that |
[622.56 --> 627.26] they run in so that now you're building an ember project um and and it's doing everything you know |
[627.26 --> 631.58] handle the templates appropriately and so forth uh same thing with lineman rails if you want to like |
[631.58 --> 636.12] you know proxy back to a rails application our goal has been all along to like avoid code generation |
[636.12 --> 642.54] but make it like dead simple to integrate with and build plugins for whatever whatever you want on the |
[642.54 --> 646.26] top of the stack whatever whatever application framework you want we want to be totally agnostic |
[646.26 --> 651.24] to that cool so if you don't mind i'd like to step back for a second we'll get back to lineman and the |
[651.24 --> 656.22] features and and the details there i kind of like to talk to you a little bit uh from a consultant |
[656.22 --> 662.18] perspective i also run a development firm and at test double you know you're making the decisions on |
[662.18 --> 667.42] behalf of your clients i assume lots of times which technologies to use uh which style of application |
[667.42 --> 672.62] they actually need right so we've seen this massive move towards rich javascript front ends especially |
Subsets and Splits
No community queries yet
The top public SQL queries from the community will appear here once available.