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[1224.08 --> 1228.42] to proxy back to the rails application easily so like any request that lineman doesn't know how to |
[1228.42 --> 1234.44] handle it'll just phone home to rails um and uh that way you can develop against lineman's port but |
[1234.44 --> 1239.50] still be inside of your rails application and get all of the benefit without having to completely |
[1239.50 --> 1245.60] redesign your rails application to be completely just like you know api uh api only uh or divorced |
[1245.60 --> 1251.12] from any hint of erb or or templates that drop in little javascript variables so you can get up and |
[1251.12 --> 1256.12] running on almost any project immediately even if it's a long-standing existing one it's not only |
[1256.12 --> 1261.12] for greenfield projects so do you just check that code into your main app then or do you have |
[1261.12 --> 1267.02] do you keep separate repositories or either i guess either it depends on you know a person's priorities uh |
[1267.02 --> 1273.16] if the if the team is already uh figured out cracked the nut on how to do deployments well with multiple |
[1273.16 --> 1278.04] repos at multiple versions then this is just another repo uh and just like you'd probably put |
[1278.04 --> 1284.02] your iphone or android application in a separate repo um it can make sense to put your fat client |
[1284.02 --> 1287.16] javascript application in a separate repo because at the end of the day that's all it is it's just |
[1287.16 --> 1292.38] another client to your api but i think for most people especially right out the gate um because |
[1292.38 --> 1296.42] versioning is extra hard and because the deployment story can be more more complex just |
[1296.42 --> 1303.72] adding that to your repo as like a another root directory is probably a okay um and then on the |
[1303.72 --> 1308.48] the benefit of doing it that way too is that we have a gem for rails called rails lineman that you just |
[1308.48 --> 1313.26] you merely install the gem and tell it where your lineman app is and then whenever you run rake assets |
[1313.26 --> 1318.16] pre-compile like as part of your deploy it'll actually do a lineman build sneakily shove that into |
[1318.16 --> 1321.20] your public assets directory and so you don't have to configure it but you actually get |
[1321.20 --> 1328.42] kind of get all of lineman's assets for free without having to think let's pause the show for |
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[1377.68 --> 1385.56] so you mentioned yeoman briefly and it seems like if lineman had a competitor it would be yeoman |
[1385.56 --> 1392.60] both tools trying to provide you know help for front-end projects um yeoman is a combination of |
[1392.60 --> 1397.30] yo which i believe and you can correct me if i got details wrong but this is a scaffold generator a |
[1397.30 --> 1404.72] code generator grunt which is the the the task runner and then bauer i believe is or the dependency |
[1404.72 --> 1411.46] management of some kind i think it's bauer um how does lyman compare to yeoman uh pros and cons of |
[1411.46 --> 1418.30] either side um we have a a table up uh at linemanjs.com where i spent some time answering specific |
[1418.30 --> 1423.80] questions from the community about this and i wish i had in front of me um so so go to linemanjs.com |
[1423.80 --> 1429.82] check out the table for probably better answers than this um but my um my off-the-cuff reaction is |
[1429.82 --> 1439.02] that yeoman misses some opportunities that lineman seized upon and it it does some things that i think |
[1439.02 --> 1446.04] are very attractive for adoption purposes but but long term have a poisonous effect on on the |
[1446.04 --> 1451.96] sustainability of projects one of the opportunities that it failed to realize is that there is a higher |
[1451.96 --> 1459.18] order concern than simply running tasks a build is really you know like a its own domain model it |
[1459.18 --> 1463.64] runs tasks but it has to figure out the order and when and how to do it in the in a way that's like |
[1463.64 --> 1469.88] maybe you know um iterative like if like say only one file changes just compile that one file and find |
[1469.88 --> 1474.34] a way to graft it in as opposed to rebuild everything on every single file change right so there's a whole |
[1474.34 --> 1478.08] bunch of build responsibilities that they just kind of left on the table that something like joe |
[1478.08 --> 1487.08] lissa's broccoli tool was built to be um the other aspect uh uh that that stands to me about yeoman that |
[1487.08 --> 1493.82] really bothers me is that it's got all of these community driven generators uh for you like they've |
[1493.82 --> 1500.16] got this website that's like you know pick which of the 15 bootstrap three generators you want if you |
[1500.16 --> 1505.90] want to pull like start a bootstrap project or if you want to start this project here and some of them |
[1505.90 --> 1510.50] are in total disarray some of them are relatively maintained some of them are maintained but they |
[1510.50 --> 1516.22] actually have like very weird or or incongruent opinions about how to do things well um but all |
[1516.22 --> 1522.02] of them just generate a lot of cruft that you then have to commit into your repository uh and when you do |
[1522.02 --> 1529.72] that if you need to upgrade later maybe none almost none of those generators have clear sane upgrade |
[1529.72 --> 1533.98] paths so it's like you're making a project and it's like at this point in time this project will and |
[1533.98 --> 1538.42] forever will be you know tied to this version of this one particular tool because we chose to |
[1538.42 --> 1546.06] you know uh get the convenience of an easy quick start um uh with without you know having to have |
[1546.06 --> 1550.30] paid the cost for a tool that sort of like embedded conventions for us it just sort of handed all this |
[1550.30 --> 1555.00] stuff um and that really that really bums me out because when i see that there's not a lot of help |
[1555.00 --> 1560.44] i can do for people other than recommend that they start fresh yeah i've used yeoman a little bit for a |
[1560.44 --> 1564.88] few small angular apps and i can definitely those statements resonate with me i found your table by |
[1564.88 --> 1570.90] the way so just a few other things here that you missed uh you provide html5 push state simulator |
[1570.90 --> 1578.78] built in um i think really the big differentiator from my perspective is the testing story so lyman |
[1578.78 --> 1584.34] seems to provide for those interested in in writing tests for their javascript which is a pretty good |
[1584.34 --> 1590.78] idea if you ask me um you have a test runner you have api stubbing and stuff like that um so that |
[1590.78 --> 1596.54] you can so you can easily get started testing can you talk about the how the test runner works yeah so |
[1596.54 --> 1602.86] the the test runner that we use is called testum uh and it was written by a uh a great developer down |
[1602.86 --> 1609.24] i think he's in atlanta his name is toby ho and uh testum is a test runner that was written to be |
[1609.24 --> 1615.00] completely agnostic of the test library so you can use testum with uh uh almost anything you can use |
[1615.00 --> 1620.54] it with obviously q unit jasmine and mocha the big three uh you could use it with casper you could use |
[1620.54 --> 1628.06] it with with with almost anything you want on on the library end uh and then on the other end it it's |
[1628.06 --> 1632.78] able to capture lots of different browser environments with a little tiny script and some |
[1632.78 --> 1640.42] socket io uh so you can easily run uh your tests in any browser you like like uh uh you know whether |
[1640.42 --> 1645.40] that's ie safari firefox or or what have you or or mobile browsers or different devices on your network |
[1645.40 --> 1652.40] if you have a device lab and so forth and uh it does all of this with a very sexy uh n curses like |
[1652.40 --> 1658.30] terminal ui that lets you um like you know arrow between the different the different user agents that |
[1658.30 --> 1662.76] are running your tests you can see how the uh error messages might differ from one to the next |
[1662.76 --> 1670.44] um and then it sort of ties a bow around all that with a very nice uh ci mode so this is all the |
[1670.44 --> 1674.64] interactive mode but in the ci mode it'll run under phantom js and it'll give you you know any format |
[1674.64 --> 1678.70] you want like whether you want the j unit style xml formatting or whether you want tap formatting |
[1678.70 --> 1684.54] uh so that you can you know aggregate those results in your ci system uh so testum is really like |
[1684.54 --> 1690.00] they toby did 100 of the heavy lifting there what lyman does just like it does with all of its grunt |
[1690.00 --> 1694.20] tasks that it runs and everything else is it just provides a default configuration that just works |
[1694.20 --> 1701.12] out of the box um and and this is maybe a little selfish but i also shove all of my um uh jasmine |
[1701.12 --> 1705.08] test helpers that i've built over the years into your helpers directory for you right off the gate |
[1705.08 --> 1709.76] um and i do that because i use them and i was sick of downloading them but hopefully you know people |
[1709.76 --> 1714.96] find some benefit from that as well cool yeah that leads me to my next question because uh you know |
[1714.96 --> 1720.10] talk about downloading uh helpers and whatnot the other but another big differentiator yeoman the |
[1720.10 --> 1724.60] third part of that would be bauer which is you know it's not really dependency management but it's |
[1724.60 --> 1730.68] a downloader so to speak um lyman seems to just completely punt on package management it's true |
[1730.68 --> 1737.34] yeah is that purposeful or it is purpose you got tired it's uh it's very intentional and i think that |
[1737.34 --> 1742.86] it's uh a couple years ago now i wrote a blog post called unrequired love about required js |
[1742.86 --> 1749.50] um and how i think that in open source my goal has always been to identify areas of pain |
[1749.50 --> 1755.76] and then think really hard about why am i feeling that pain and then and then sit and then think |
[1755.76 --> 1760.24] really hard again and then eventually start writing tools to alleviate that pain somewhat |
[1760.24 --> 1766.74] and i feel like the obsession with front-end package management tools whether it's require or browserify |
[1766.74 --> 1771.42] or to the extent that people use bauer as a dependency management tool when i agree with you it's not |
[1771.42 --> 1777.64] really it's more like a very fancy downloader right um what i worry is that they're identifying the pain |
[1777.64 --> 1781.66] of i've got all of these third-party scripts everywhere but then they they apply the wrong |
[1781.66 --> 1785.00] prescription which is let's give me something to manage all of these third-party scripts |
[1785.00 --> 1790.12] when a better prescription would be let's write leaner meaner applications that don't you know |
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