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[2329.46 --> 2337.44] there is no standard way um and and you have to kind of identify just to signal to noise you know |
[2337.44 --> 2344.02] manage your life you have to identify a group that that seems to agree with you well enough that you |
[2344.02 --> 2349.48] can be productive uh and one of the ways that i have sort of self-selected a group when i'm working |
[2349.48 --> 2355.02] on node.js stuff is if somebody comes to me and says that because i write coffee script i'm my project's |
[2355.02 --> 2361.32] dumb and i'm dumb too i'm like boom bozo button i don't yep you're out of my tribe the world is much |
[2361.32 --> 2366.06] too big right for me to feel like i have to make absolutely everybody happy please tell me you have |
[2366.06 --> 2371.60] a real bozo button i was gonna say i like that button i want that button uh i well i i tapped on |
[2371.60 --> 2376.38] the lid of my water bottle when i said it so that'll be the new bozo button i guess i'd love to have that |
[2376.38 --> 2384.22] yes right and it just like automatically blocks them on twitter and uh github there could be an |
[2384.22 --> 2390.42] api and everything for it yeah yeah i love this because you know open source is so interesting we |
[2390.42 --> 2395.12] have you know the techno they're the purely technical aspects of it right which we can talk |
[2395.12 --> 2400.58] about all day long and debate and uh evaluate and improve and all that and then you have the social |
[2400.58 --> 2407.94] meta kind of like the people of open source and all of the interesting and troublesome |
[2407.94 --> 2414.90] situations that arise around that um then you have the corporate the corporate aspect where we see |
[2414.90 --> 2421.80] more corporate backing of open source um licensing like there's all these kind of conversations around |
[2421.80 --> 2428.40] open source that we can have and we do have um and justin you have a talk that's coming up |
[2428.40 --> 2431.26] you've been you've been working on it you have an abstract called the social |
[2431.26 --> 2438.54] coding contract which i think speaks into this milieu of the the community the open source community |
[2438.54 --> 2442.50] especially in in the world that you run which is really the ruby and javascript communities |
[2442.50 --> 2447.44] specifically um i'll just pull a quote you sent this to us i'd love to talk about it a little bit |
[2447.44 --> 2450.54] here i'll pull a quote out of this it's probably not going to get the gist but it's my favorite |
[2450.54 --> 2456.54] paragraph and you say sometimes i swear i can feel a teetering sensation from how precariously |
[2456.54 --> 2462.24] our applications are perched on top of an ever-growing web of open source dependencies |
[2462.24 --> 2467.86] fears that our tech stack is about to topple over have been for fomenting in recent years |
[2467.86 --> 2474.16] but are those fears founded that's kind of the question you pose um you have a specific |
[2474.16 --> 2479.62] scenario which kind of leads to this go ahead and speak into that and and tell us your thoughts on |
[2479.62 --> 2490.50] this yeah so i think the zeitgeist um right now is a little bit cynical uh at least among the people |
[2490.50 --> 2497.54] that that i follow on twitter and that i that i engage with in the community is that we've been |
[2497.54 --> 2502.88] on this sort of we've been riding this rocket of ever increasing convenience in the open source world |
[2502.88 --> 2506.82] it used to be the case that open source was a pain in the ass and you had to be really thoughtful |
[2506.82 --> 2511.84] when you pulled in an open source dependency not just like legally but like literally like pre-github |
[2511.84 --> 2517.82] pre all of these cool dependency managers like i remember like the pain even in 2004 of getting a jar |
[2517.82 --> 2522.92] and getting that jar to like in my class path and working in my java project correctly whereas like |
[2522.92 --> 2529.92] rubygems made it quite a lot easier bundler made it easier still uh npm makes it like almost comically |
[2529.92 --> 2536.58] easy to both publish you know dinky little scripts and also to consume them um we're so from a package |
[2536.58 --> 2541.10] management perspective it's easier and easier to slurp in new dependencies uh and it's easier and |
[2541.10 --> 2547.06] easier to publish new ones and so um because there's so many solved problems out there and no one wants to |
[2547.06 --> 2554.22] feel like they're reinventing the wheel every single application becomes a a kind of defined by the 15 |
[2554.22 --> 2561.76] totally disparate things that it stands on top of and those things are maintained by for the most part |
[2561.76 --> 2568.58] white dudes in their 20s doing it in their spare time who might you know probably have a 40 chance |
[2568.58 --> 2576.88] of never committing to that thing again right and that is what runs the world software you know that's |
[2576.88 --> 2581.68] that's what runs pretty soon you know real-time systems even not like about several friends who |
[2581.68 --> 2586.20] work in real-time systems this trend is coming to real-time systems things that run hydroelectric |
[2586.20 --> 2591.02] jams things that run airplanes right those embedded devices are getting so strong now that they can |
[2591.02 --> 2597.00] realistically run you know uh if not dynamic languages certainly stuff like rust and go and |
[2597.00 --> 2604.06] that's been brought up in this culture of of of convenient uh uh open source grabs meanwhile we're |
[2604.06 --> 2608.72] seeing like in the news constantly all these open source projects that literally 80 percent of servers |
[2608.72 --> 2612.66] rely on be like oh there's a gigantic security hole and everything we thought was secure for the |
[2612.66 --> 2618.96] last 10 years on the internet wasn't yes uh we have all of these basically like you could almost just |
[2618.96 --> 2624.64] paint uh your application as a graph of single points of failure like here's all of the millions |
[2624.64 --> 2629.72] of things that could go wrong that could break us and we don't understand any of them because our |
[2629.72 --> 2634.02] understanding stops as soon as we've typed the name of the gem into our gem file or the name of the |
[2634.02 --> 2640.44] package into our package json and so the thrust of the talk is like not that this is necessarily bad |
[2640.44 --> 2645.02] and we're all doomed it's that users i think have a much greater responsibility to understand what |
[2645.02 --> 2652.22] dependencies they're pulling in who's maintaining them under you know what pretenses uh uh not just |
[2652.22 --> 2657.56] how how it's licensed but how is it being built like is it is it is there a healthy community around |
[2657.56 --> 2663.66] it um is it is it small enough to not be an albatross but is it big enough to have the gravitas |
[2663.66 --> 2671.02] necessary to be able to rely on you know stable releases and fixes in the future and i think most |
[2671.02 --> 2675.44] users have kind of just lowered their standards over time as the convenience has gone up from |
[2675.44 --> 2679.06] companies like that use open source like you mentioned companies companies have a similar |
[2679.06 --> 2684.00] responsibility like they're getting a tremendous lift a huge amount of free value from open source |
[2684.00 --> 2689.60] and and if i think of my friends who work in enterprises they have carte blanche ability now to |
[2689.60 --> 2693.88] use whatever open source they like maybe they have to run a license by a lawyer or something but then |
[2693.88 --> 2698.86] like if they try to spend two hours to submit a patch it's it's you know basically they have to |
[2698.86 --> 2704.98] either use vacation time and then still talk to the lawyers uh or or they just you know don't and |
[2704.98 --> 2709.56] can't and i think that corporations that are using open source and getting all of this tremendous value |
[2709.56 --> 2716.14] from it have a responsibility to give back something and i don't know exactly what that is yet but that's |
[2716.14 --> 2720.24] some some of the stuff i'm going to be chewing on for the talk but the maybe the more interesting |
[2720.24 --> 2724.50] part to me because i'm more you know i publish a lot of open source and not everyone does is i want |
[2724.50 --> 2728.00] to kind of peel the curtain back a little bit into just like what's the psyche of an open source |
[2728.00 --> 2735.28] maintainer and for me the the saddest thing about it is that i build tools to solve problems that i |
[2735.28 --> 2740.96] have and i get some day one gratification of like man i just solved that problem that i had i granted |
[2740.96 --> 2745.12] i spent all day on a tool to solve the problem when i could have solved the problem some other way in 30 |
[2745.12 --> 2750.40] minutes but you know now i've automated it and that's fantastic but then days like two through n of |
[2750.40 --> 2755.16] the project are well i had that first problem but now almost all of my problems are maintaining this |
[2755.16 --> 2761.08] thing that solves that same problem for other people into perpetuity and when you build a thing |
[2761.08 --> 2766.02] because you wish it existed in the world you don't get to enjoy it the same way as if it had already |
[2766.02 --> 2771.12] existed because you have to maintain it you have to worry about it and you have to you take the heat |
[2771.12 --> 2777.10] when it doesn't work out for some stranger on the internet um and all of those things really |
[2777.10 --> 2782.72] contribute to the sort of burnout that we see in open source um and and that burnout feeds directly |
[2782.72 --> 2787.92] into the instability of all the dependencies that we stand on so there's just this uh healthy unhealthy |
[2787.92 --> 2793.88] burning of the candle at both ends that's going on uh and it's structural and we have to really think |
[2793.88 --> 2800.12] radically i believe to to figure out what's a sustainable way forward um for all of these |
[2800.12 --> 2803.62] shared tools because granted everyone no one wants to have to like you know resolve all the same |
[2803.62 --> 2808.22] problems in every single enterprise and just sort of have like this big nasty dark closet of wheel |
[2808.22 --> 2814.84] reinvention uh because that's you know similarly hugely error prone but there's got to be a better |
[2814.84 --> 2821.42] way uh to to sort of just find like that's why i called it the social coding contract like we have |
[2821.42 --> 2828.44] to find some sort of like you know cultural mores to um shift both our expectations as users and also |
[2828.44 --> 2834.72] how we view uh maintainers they are not these superheroes that that have like a bajillion stars on github |
[2834.72 --> 2839.22] and have figured out how to do software they're mostly just people who published a thing and it |
[2839.22 --> 2845.56] got popular and now their life is dominated by that thing let's pause the show for a minute give a |
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