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bilibili_data_22095156_BV19a4y1q7Yz_p162_BV19a4y1q7Yz_p162_m4-dialogue_0653456
[S1] What impact do your friends have on your brain? [S2] So have you heard that phrase, you're the sum of the five people you spend most time with? [S1] Yes. [S2] So we do believe from a neuroscience perspective that you have a tribe that influences your behaviors. So for instance, if your
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bilibili_data_22095156_BV19a4y1q7Yz_p162_BV19a4y1q7Yz_p162_m4-dialogue_0653457
[S1] Um, does it work in the positive? Meaning- [S2] Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely, so- [S1] 'Cause I tend to hear the, the examples of the negative, right? That if you are around smokers, you'll smoke. If you're on drinkers, you drink. But it works in the positive ways too. As a neuroscientist MD, PhD, is there anything ...
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bilibili_data_22095156_BV19a4y1q7Yz_p162_BV19a4y1q7Yz_p162_m4-dialogue_0653458
[S1] Yes. Any age, any stage, any mindset. Um, and I get a lot of questions from people who are neurodivergent and neuroplasticity literally is hope for people. [S2] And what is the biggest barrier to somebody changing? [S1] Not wanting to.
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bilibili_data_22095156_BV19a4y1q7Yz_p162_BV19a4y1q7Yz_p162_m4-dialogue_0653459
[S1] So when people are like, when people come to you with excuses and time and self-doubt and past stuff and neuro-diger- like every excuse in the book, right? [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] For you as a neuroscientist, it still comes down to not wanting to? [S2] Well, or, you know, not, and that sounded very negative, so I'll giv...
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bilibili_data_22095156_BV19a4y1q7Yz_p162_BV19a4y1q7Yz_p162_m4-dialogue_0653460
[S1] I believe you're saying something extremely profound. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] And way deeper than a desire- [S2] Yeah. [S1] ... to change at the surface level. [S2] Yeah.
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[S1] Because you have very clearly stated, Dr. Tara, that from a, from a neuroscience standpoint, absolutely any human being can change. Your brain structure can change in three different ways. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] That your brain can be rewired to align with the person that you want to become, the behaviors you want to e...
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bilibili_data_22095156_BV19a4y1q7Yz_p162_BV19a4y1q7Yz_p162_m4-dialogue_0653462
[S1] When you say the word whether or not somebody wants to. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] Can we go about seven layers deeper? [S2] Yeah. [S1] And can you explain what you're talking about? [S2] Mm-hmm.
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[S1] That makes, what you're basically talking about is having it tied to your deepest value. [S2] Yeah. [S1] In life. And that's a super clear example. What final words do you have for the person listening?
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bilibili_data_22095156_BV19a4y1q7Yz_p162_BV19a4y1q7Yz_p162_m4-dialogue_0653464
[S1] Strategies that we can use in our life. Starting right now, tonight, tomorrow, I'm grabbing my glue gun. [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] I'm making another fishing board. It is time. Um, but I just want to thank you with all of my heart. It was just absolutely fantastic to finally meet you in person and to learn from you and t...
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bilibili_data_22095156_BV19a4y1q7Yz_p164_BV19a4y1q7Yz_p164_m4-dialogue_0198214
[S1] So I became interested in happiness because of my own unhappiness. [S2] Oh. [S1] And, um, you know, it started off, uh, even before, uh, college, I was, uh, a squash player. My dream as, uh, as a young boy was to be a professional athlete. Uh, initially it was supposed to be basketball, but I stopped growing it ab...
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[S1] Okay. [S2] And I went to college and I said, okay, so I didn't make it in, uh, in, in, in athletics, but I'll do it academically. [S1] Okay. [S2] And I went to Harvard and, uh, I was a top student there and I was miserable. And my sophomore year, very cold Boston morning,
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[S1] Wow. That's quite a, you sound like a really intense dude. [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] No, seriously. Like you sound like somebody that was incredibly tightly wound, but that's not my experience of you right now. And so I only say that because to me, if somebody that is that driven,
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[S1] Yeah, so the first thing that I, that I learned or that was, uh, you know, obvious to me at that time was that success doesn't lead to happiness. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] You know, we think there are certain boxes that we need to check. So for me it was winning that championship or later getting into Harvard or becoming ...
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[S1] And we know, you know, all of us know that the best that these achievements can do is lead to temporary happiness, a spike. [S2] Right. [S1] But that high doesn't last. So that's the first thing that, that I learned. Now, the thing that amazed me is that while we all know that achievement, uh, attainment, reaching...
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[S1] Why is it that it just is? You know, why is the law of gravity the law of gravity? And the question is, how do we accept nature? Just like we accept the law of gravity. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] How do we accept our human nature and then build our life based on that?
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[S1] Yes, and if you do live by the, uh, uh, belief that achievement will lead to happiness, that will cause you a great deal of unhappiness. [S2] Oh, that's a big one. [S1] In fact, that is one of the main causes for, uh, the levels of unhappiness that we see in our world because people are focusing on, uh, on the wro...
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[S1] So, happiness is important. It matters. Just like we are hard-wired not to celebrate successes forever, we're also hard-wired to pursue happiness. [S2] Okay. [S1] So it's not that I'm saying, okay, forget about happiness. Happiness matters. [S2] Okay. [S1] However, there's also research, and this is, um,
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[S1] Research done, uh, quite, quite recently by Professor Moss, M-A-U-S, showing that if I wake up in the morning and say to myself, "I wanna be happy," or, "Happiness is important for me," or, um, "It's a value for me," I will actually become less happy. [S2] What? [S1] Which is- [S2] Wait a minute. [S1] Yeah, which-...
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[S1] Wait a minute. [S2] Yeah. [S1] Really? [S2] That, that was exactly my reaction. That's a problem. You know, and, and, you know, I read about this, you know, five years ago, and I said, but, you know, that's what I'm dedicating my life to. Of course happiness is important for me. And yet, what the research clearly ...
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[S1] ... ourselves, you know, say to ourselves, you know, I don't want to be happy. Wink, wink, I actually do. You know, self-deception is certainly not the path to happiness. So what do we do about it? Well, let me use an analogy that was very helpful for me in thinking about happiness. Imagine you go outside. It's a,...
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[S1] is, what is the definition of happiness? [S2] There are five elements to happiness. There may be more, but five main elements to happiness. [S1] Okay. [S2] Which, uh, we call the spire elements. [S1] The spire.
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[S1] That's one of the colors. So that's the S of spire, the P of spire. That's physical well-being. Physical well-being is about nutrition. It's about, um, about rest and recovery, sleep. It's about, uh, uh, touch. It's about, um, what we eat. That, of course, matters. So if I start to exercise regularly, that's an in...
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[S1] You become happier by achieving your goals. [S2] Right. [S1] That's the most important thing. You get to the peak of the mountain, then you'll be happy. [S2] Yes. [S1] That's a model that I tried and that many people tried. It doesn't really work. The other model that people veer towards is, uh, okay, so the futur...
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[S1] And that's an alternative model, which is mostly, again, this is very broad brush strokes, mostly associated with the East. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] You know, meditation, mindfulness, being the here and now.
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[S1] And the question is, can these two models be reconciled? In other words, can you draw the best of both worlds? And the answer is yes. Goals matter. They're important. Whether it is to, you know, to win a championship in sports, or whether it is to get into a college, or whether it is to make X amount of money. [S2...
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[S1] Well, they matter because, again, it's part of our nature. We want to improve, we want to get better, and that's a beautiful and wonderful part of our nature, which we are to celebrate, not, uh, not, not attack. So that's a good thing. [S2] Okay. [S1] However, what we also know is that the achievement of these goa...
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[S1] So, you know, you turn left or right, you look over, am I falling over a, a cliff? What should I do today? Is this the right thing? You know, it's, it's, you're meandering, you're not certain, you're not happy then. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] But if you know, I'm going to the top of that mountain over there, then you can, ...
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[S1] doesn't really know if happiness is possible or even kinda what it feels like. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] Where do you even begin if you don't know what happiness looks like or feels like or how to achieve it?
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[S1] ... then we'll get better. Then we'll grow. Then we will actually become happier, with an emphasis on happier. What do I mean by that? See, many people ask me, "Okay, Tal, you've been in this business for 30 years. 30 years ago, you embarked on this journey. Are you finally happy today?" [S2] Are you? [S1] Good qu...
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[S1] I'm here to tell you how to be happier, not happy. [S2] Okay. [S1] Because I don't know what being happy is or means in the sense that I don't think there is a binary zero one. Okay, so yesterday I was unhappy, today I am, I'm happy. Rather than a binary zero one, it is a continuum. So yeah, I can certainly tell y...
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[S1] So I would go for, uh, you know, small changes. [S2] Okay. [S1] The Kaizen change that the Japanese talk about, which is how can I become 1% happier? Not how can I become happy.
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[S1] Not how can I, you know, find, you know, the, uh, the, um, the answer. Just how can I become 1% happier? And then if you look at, ask this question and look at the five spiral elements- [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] ... and you can look at all five and you can look at one of them. How can I introduce a small change? Experimen...
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[S1] One of the, the major characteristics of depression is, uh, helplessness, which means doing nothing. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] So counter that with doing something. And again, that something doesn't have to be major. You know, one of the things that I'm, um, working on a lot now is how small changes can make a big differe...
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[S1] And those small changes make a big difference. And, you know, I've coined a term. So I don't know if you're familiar with the term MVP, not from sports, from, um, from business. MVP, minimum viable product. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] Now, this is something a company, you know, brings out as sort of a beta version, a test c...
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[S1] So based on this MVP, minimum viable product idea, I coined the term MVI, minimum viable intervention. [S2] Hmm. [S1] Minimum viable intervention, these are the small changes that you can introduce that actually make a difference over time. And this is what I would urge, the MVIs is what I would urge that someone ...
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[S1] or down, or someone who just lacks motivation. [S2] Right. [S1] Introduces in their lives. [S2] Okay. [S1] What are these MVIs, for example? [S2] I don't- [S1] Uh, you know what, actually, let me go over the spire elements and, and provide an MVI for each one. [S2] Ooh, I love you. Yes. [S1] Of that.
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[S1] ... of that. [S2] Yes. [S1] All right. So, spiritual well-being. Spiritual well-being is about purpose and presence. [S2] Okay. [S1] Let's say we, for, uh, one minute, breathe deeply, focusing on the air going in and out. That's meditation. You know, it's not 30 minutes, but it's one minute. And we know, and there...
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[S1] ... can make a huge difference. You know, there are so many things we can do in one minute while being present, and that will enhance, and we know that, and there's a lot of, a lot of data on this, will enhance your spiritual well-being as well as your physical well-being. But let's go, let, let's move to the P of...
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[S1] 45 seconds, minimum viable intervention. It's cumulative. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] And it actually has the effect of psychological well-being impact, and it also impacts your, of course, physical well-being. [S2] Now, as you're talking, I just want to remind the person listening that you're considering this inside the co...
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[S1] I. [S2] Intellectual well-being. So intellectual well-being, which is after spiritual and physical, it's the third element. Um, this is about, for example, learning something new. [S1] Mm-hmm. [S2] You know, and going online and, uh, looking at these, you know, short excerpts. Okay, I'm gonna learn a new technique...
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[S1] Your curiosity muscles. You know, by the way, Mel, I, I forgot to say this, but curiosity, you know, the, the, the saying curiosity kills the cat? [S2] Yeah. [S1] It turns out that it's the opposite for human beings, meaning people who are curious, who ask many questions, who are lifelong learners, actually live l...
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[S1] Number one predictor of happiness is quality time we spend with people we care about and who care about us. Now, we also know that, um, the number one predictor of unhappiness in our world today is loneliness. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] And this, um, was, uh, exacerbated as a result of COVID, of course. Because what loneli...
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[S1] And what we need to do in order to get out of it is get out of it. There has to be focused action and intention. In other words, single-tasking rather than multi-tasking. Because one of the main causes of loneliness is not the fact that we're not around people. [S2] Hmm. [S1] It's the fact that when we're around p...
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[S1] Oh. [S2] You know, Daniel Goldman calls our age the age of distraction. [S1] Yes. [S2] So, you know, if I'm with friends, but at the same time, I'm texting and doing something else, and they're doing, we're not really together. [S1] Right. [S2] You know, it's, um, the, the example that I like. So imagine, imagine ...
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[S1] Oh my God. [S2] My favorite song. [S1] [LAUGHS] Okay. [S2] Of all time. So imagine you're listening to that or whatever your favorite is. [S1] Okay. [S2] And, you know, you close your eyes, you focus, and you rate it on a scale of one to 10. You know, it's your favorite. [S1] It's a 10. [S2] A 10.
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[S1] And then you listen to your second most favorite. And, you know, my second most favorite is, uh, Beethoven's Fifth Symphony. Bah, bah, bah, bah. You listen to that and you rate it on a scale of one to 10, and, you know, it's not quite Whitney Houston, but it's pretty good. It's a nine and a half. [S2] Yeah. [S1] A...
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[S1] Well, you can do a lot, but you certainly can't enjoy it all. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] And much of our sense of loneliness comes because when we're with other people, we're not really with other people. And what we need to do is put down a, uh, put time aside. And it doesn't have to be seven hours. You know, even if it's...
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[S1] There's research showing that even two minute journaling, whether it's about difficult experiences or about ecstatic experiences, two minutes actually make us happier and healthier. Better to write it in a journal or to talk about it than to just ruminate over it. [S2] Why? Why is it better to write in a journal a...
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[S1] painful emotions or difficult experiences, we can either talk about it, write about it, or think about it. People who think about it, it actually gets worse. We ruminate, we go down the rabbit hole, downward spiral, and we can stay there for, for hours or sometimes weeks. [S2] Or decades in some people. [S1] [LAUG...
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[S1] ... right? [S2] Exactly. Whereas if we write about it or talk about it, there's a much higher likelihood that we'll emerge stronger. Why? Because what we're doing when we're writing and talking about it, we're actually making sense of it. [S1] [LAUGHS] [S2] You know, so often, and, you know, this is work on journa...
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[S1] And then, after we have, uh, written about, talked about it, just do it. What is it? It could be an MVI, a minimum viable intervention. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] It could be, you know, go to the gym. It, uh, doing it could be, you know, go out with friends, even if you don't really feel like it, but keep on experimenting ...
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[S1] More, it's almost like if, if you think about a rainbow, there is a hue there, there's a vibrancy there. And I love this word wholeness because it is part of her well-being to have a spiritual practice. [S2] Yeah. [S1] And it does create a vibrancy and a wholeness in that area of her life. It is one simple change....
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[S1] You know, I'm wondering, as one of the world's most respected and leading experts on happiness, what do you do every day to be happier? [S2] Mm-hmm. Um, you know, I do the basics. Uh, I wake up in the morning and I do my meditation. [S1] Now, do you lay in bed, do you get up, do you, like, do you, wh- how do you d...
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[S1] ... and then I meditate. And again, this is, this is good for a morning. I'm a morning person. [S2] Uh-huh. [S1] So when I wake up, I wake up. It's not- [S2] Okay. [S1] I won't fall asleep again. But for people who, for whom it's difficult to wake up in the morning, get out of bed, you know, wash your face, do wha...
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[S1] That's pretty cool. [S2] Uh, yeah. So, so we have that and then, and then I go home and I, and, and I work. Mornings are my, my productive hours. And then I do yoga in the, in the afternoon. Um, almost every day, you know, have, uh, have lunch with, uh, with my wife. And, um, and then sometimes work in the afterno...
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[S1] I play squash. I, I didn't play squash for 25 years and I always said, "If one of my kids plays, then I'll take it up again." And our little one, our 14-year-old, plays squash, so I play with him. [S2] I bet you're a monster on the pickleball court. [S1] I've never played pickleball, but I want to. [S2] Oh, I bet ...
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[S1] Answer to it is something out there, that national championship, the getting into the right school, the right grades, the right this, the right that. And what you just described is the little things you do every day that make you feel whole. [S2] Mm-hmm. There's something very important, Mel, that I want to add. Y...
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[S1] ... [S2] ... [S1] ... [S2] They don't say, they don't say jerk, but they say, "Daddy, chill." [S1] Yeah, chill. [S2] Chill, yeah. Um, and, um, and, and, and it's, it's important to, to understand, you know, not every morning when I get up, I wa- I want to write. You know, some mornings I get up and I want to stay ...
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[S1] Yeah, you know, that's one of those concepts that really made a difference in my life. It's a, it's an idea that I read about through the work of Nassim Taleb, who's a professor at, uh, New York University. And what is anti-fragility? The opposite of fragility, or I've come to look at it as resilience 2.0. [S2] Ok...
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[S1] Resilience 1.0 comes from engineering. [S2] Resilience as a term comes from engineering. [S1] See that computer science, the classes you took, they helped. [S2] Stands to be a good stand. [S1] There you go.
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[S1] So if they help, there you go. [S2] Absolutely. So what, what it means is that if you have certain material and you put pressure on it, if it's resilient, it goes back to its original form. [S1] Mm-hmm. [S2] Uh, you squish, you know, a piece of, uh, rubber, resilient, it returns to where it was before. [S1] Yeah. ...
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[S1] ... two questions. The first question was, "Put your hand up if you know what PTSD is." Just about everyone in the class put their hand up. They've heard of Post-traumatic Stress Disorder. They've read about it, studied it in Psych One newspaper. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] People know what it is. And I said, "Okay, put you...
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[S1] Depression is sadness without hope. 'Cause sadness, I mean, we all ex- [S2] It comes, you, you feel it every day. [S1] Yeah, ten times a day sometimes. Big deal. That too shall pass. But if that sadness, um, is devoid of hope, you know, that too shall pass, then that's problematic. That's when we become hopeless. ...
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[S1] I think that's what I'm starting to take away. [S2] And, and I will add to that and, and, you know, you mentioned earlier about how knowing that you can grow from it- [S1] Mm-hmm. [S2] ... contributes to your, uh, to your well-being. Just knowing that a gridlock or hardships, these are all natural
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[S1] And that's what gives hope. [S2] Mm. [S1] And that is what becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, because through that hope, you actually grow within the relationship or in another context. [S2] It's so true. You know, with the 30 years that you have spent researching this topic, is there anything that bubbles up fro...
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[S1] Um, the number one would be the belief that you can make a difference. You know, ma- many people ask me, um, so what is the, uh, the- the content of, uh, the- the chorus, you know, whether it's the- the- the MA or the certificate program. And they're always surprised that I say that at the beginning we start learn...
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[S1] Yeah, so, so systems thinking is, um, about looking at things as holes. So looking at the system rather than the symptom. [S2] Oh. [S1] So looking at the system, whether it's a, an organization, is a system. [S2] Yep. [S1] The human body is a system. It's a system of, you know, cells and organs. Um, a system is al...
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[S1] ... leverage points. [S2] Okay. [S1] Where do I press? Where do I touch to affect the entire system? You know, it's what Charles Duhigg talks about, you know, keystone habits. [S2] Yeah, yeah. [S1] What is that place, one thing that if you do, will, will impact another part of the system and another part. Is it ex...
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[S1] Zone one of the day with, uh, deep breaths. [S2] Right. [S1] A meditation. Is it, um, you know, leaving home and, you know, hugging your, your, your loved one? What is that one thing? And when everything is interconnected, it actually doesn't matter that much where you enter the system because it will affect every...
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[S1] painful experiences, difficult experiences are inevitable. [S2] Yes. [S1] Again, there is no life example, but let, let's play a, a game. [S2] Okay. [S1] Let's imagine that sometime in the future, and by the way, this, right now it's a, it's a theory, but it could become a reality. Sometime in the future we'll hav...
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[S1] Control what we feel all the time. So, you know, in, um, in the- [S2] Why would you want to do that? [S1] Well, why would you want to do it? Many people would, especially when they're in the midst of hardship and difficulty. You know, all you want is for it to go away. Or what if you see your loved one, your, your...
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[S1] And what if someone is, um, doesn't have that? [S2] Yes. [S1] And what if, and ma- again, many people, many people will make it go away. I mean, if you think about it, why are we so, um, as a culture, so obsessed with, uh, with those pills? And again, I'm not against psychiatric medication, and sometimes it has sa...
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[S1] And when we begin to look at these experiences as such, then our reaction can be similar to what you said. [S2] And you're- [S1] I don't want to get rid of them. In fact, I embrace, I don't enjoy them, but I embrace them.
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[S1] Yes. And, and, you know, Mel, I, I want to share a story. [S2] Please. [S1] Um, when I was 27, um, I lost the most important person in my life to me. At the time it was, uh, a dear, dear friend who died in a plane crash. Uh, this was when I was living in, in Asia. It was a plane from Indonesia to, to Singapore, an...
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[S1] But we do get over it. And having that hope- [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] ... and doing something with it. Again, not staying in moping and, and ruminating. Writing about it, talking about it, doing small things. That is the way out of it. [S2] Thank you for sharing that. Like I, I was trying to put myself in your shoes beca...
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[S1] Most change efforts, you know, you talk about it, you know, coming into 2024. So you have a, a goal and, you know, a 30 day challenge, you know, in January, February. What happens with that? Usually not much. [S2] Yeah. [S1] So what I think about constantly and what I'm researching is how can you increase the like...
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[S1] And, um, you know, I love acronyms, as you figured out. You know, the SPIRE, MVI. So here is the third acronym. [S2] Give it to us. [S1] The three Rs of change. [S2] The three Rs, okay. [S1] Okay. [S2] And we can use this with everything that you've taught us today in terms of making ha- being happier a lasting ch...
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[S1] Exactly. [S2] Okay. [S1] So that's why the three are, that, that's why it's so important for me to, to think about it, write about it, talk about it. The three R's of change are essentially the, um, you know, should be the Intel inside, so to speak, of every, uh, change effort. [S2] Okay. [S1] So what are they? It...
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[S1] Appreciate the good people in your life, um, to, uh, to appreciate whatever works in your life, or do you prefer to take it all for granted? [S2] [LAUGHS] Appreciate it. [S1] Exactly. Exactly. So, you know, no one would say, "You know, I've had enough of appreciating my loved ones. It's time to take them for grant...
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[S1] It's not because they don't have the desire to appreciate. All these things are in place. The problem is that we forget. [S2] Mm. [S1] Which is why the first antidote to
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[S1] Which is repetition. Because one or two reminders, one day, second day, not enough. [S2] Yeah. [S1] We need repetition. We need to do it over and over and over again. And for that you need many reminders. So for example, a recurring function on your, you know, on your calendar.
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[S1] Yep. [S2] You know, every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, I'm in the gym. [S1] Yep. [S2] And after you have repetition and you have enough of it, that is when we get to the third R, which is rituals. What are rituals? Rituals are actually deeply embedded neural pathways that when we repeat an action over and over a...
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[S1] Our brain has quite literally been transformed through the repetitive action. Simple example, mom reminded me to brush my teeth. [S2] Yeah. [S1] Over and over again, repetitively. [S2] Yeah. [S1] I don't need mom anymore to remind me 'cause it's a ritual. [S2] Right. [S1] It's the same with, uh, cultivating a, you...
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[S1] Initially, the coach reminds you, you get your, your hand up, you know, meet the ball here. [S2] Right. [S1] And you do it again and again. [S2] Right. [S1] And then you wake up, Serena Williams in the middle of the night, she'll hit that forehand. [S2] [LAUGHS] I, that's true. [S1] Perfectly, because it's a ritua...
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[S1] ... Do tell. [S2] Which is the fact that it's not about the fact that you're removing spontaneity, you're removing something else, your resistance- [S1] Mm-hmm. [S2] ... to doing something new. And if I bring this full circle to, um, the topic of being a happier you, and the fact that in your definition of wholene...
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[S1] ... that we can, uh, learn from her. And if I may, I just want to recommend something else by Helen Keller. [S2] Please. [S1] So the essay on optimism. The second one is an essay that she wrote called "Three Days to See."
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[S1] You'll also learn one thing you should never do in a conversation with someone else. I mean, there are so many takeaways and signs back shortcuts that you're going to learn today. I cannot wait for you to start implementing these to help you be more successful and achieve your goals. So please help me welcome Vane...
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[S1] bring it. Every time I talk to you. Now, why does it matter to either know high achievers or to be one? Like how does being a high achiever, other than the obvious, you're achieving your goals. [S2] Yeah. [S1] But why does it matter?
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[S1] matter. I think that what's really crucial is that I've spent a career studying these high achievers, and I've noticed that they have very specific behavior patterns and communication patterns. And what they do is they take what I call communication shortcuts. [S2] Hmm. [S1] So they are able to say no more easily ...
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[S1] That is something that I think everyone wants. [S2] For sure. [S1] They are more easily able to achieve their goals and enjoy the process. So many people, they achieve their goals and have no, no happiness, no satisfaction, no joy in achieving those goals. High performers, they enjoy the means.
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[S1] You know, the person that is listening- [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] ... to this conversation right now is somebody who is well-educated, they are driven, they are curious, they're looking for ways to improve their life. They want the best for their family and their friends. They want to achieve their goals.
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[S1] And I also notice that we are, in the Mel Robbins podcast family, a group of people who burn ourselves out. [S2] Oh, yeah. [S1] Who take on too much. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] So can you talk a little bit about just being a high achiever versus just finding yourself being too busy or burnt out? Like what's, what is the di...
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[S1] I do think it's important to be uncomfortable, though. I think that if you're out of your comfort zone, it means you're pushing yourself. I think high performers are consistently stretching, not their time. They're not burnt out. They're stretching their comfort zones. And so hopefully today we can sort of shed th...
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[S1] The conversations, the interpersonal activities that make you feel good. They, they are like plugging into a charger. [S2] Okay. [S1] What are the things that take your social energy? The people, the interactions. [S2] So it's the same things? [S1] The types of socializing. It's different for everyone, right? So f...
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[S1] Right? So it, that could be different for certain people. Like introverts might feel that most social things take social energy. [S2] Yes. [S1] So you actually have to think about that list. Work energy is the same, and later we can do a little activity on this of what work tasks fuel you, what gives you flow, wha...
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[S1] What I'm saying no to. [S2] I need to know it, and I need to ask for it. And the same thing goes for relationships. The relationships that are the most toxic are not the toxic relationships. They're actually the ambivalent relationships. [S1] Oh. [S2] And so this is, I think, the problem is with social energy and ...
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[S1] No. There's that famous adage now, you should be a heck yeah, not a yeah. Let's break that down into actual, some actual tasks and some actual systems. So, ambivalence is a problem of our work energy and our social energy. And highly effective people are very good at not having anything ambivalent. [S2] And what d...
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[S1] and put a star next to the people who you would drop things to hang out with. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] Like you would move some things around and hang out with them. That's a good relationship. Then put a, um, uh, a minus sign next to people who you dread hanging out with. Sometimes these are obligatory relationships, uh...
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[S1] Well, and here's the other thing we don't think about. You're a question mark on somebody else's list. [S2] That's right. [S1] And you wouldn't want somebody to make time and hang out with you if they're sitting there across the table from you going, "Is this fun? Do I like this person?" And so don't do that to so...
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[S1] Is that if you were to take that energy and time and focus it on the people that you really like, that you don't see enough of, it would lift your life up and it would make those relationships so- [S2] Even deeper. [S1] Much better. [S2] That's it. You've got to say no to the bad to make room for the right. [S1] S...
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