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d55f86f30464-175 | menstruation probably we never would have launched ourselves into history. In a way, you know, without going too far with it, men are the ancillary sex. I mean the original uh, uh, blastula in the embryonic development is female. And I was listening to someone talk about this the other night [4:14:30] saying no wonder ... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-176 | an ego is frustrated. A man with an ego is a menace to all concerned, you know? [laughs] Yeah? | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-177 | Audience: [inaudible] ... trip with another people. Do you think the knowledge of energy changes your trip…[inaudible] | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-178 | TM: [4:15:30] I think it’s very, it’s a very major decision to do that. That if you’re going to take a high dose of psychedelics with somebody else then you better be prepared to get all entangled with them. Uh, which can be great. It can also be fairly confusing. I don’t like taking psychedelics, uh, this is not an is... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-179 | alright. [4:16:30] Then I go off on long trips about not interrupting them. And then that loops back into, ’but I haven’t heard them breath for twenty minutes!’ [laughter] And, and, and I’m always afraid. I don’t know. So really people say, “Doesn’t it take courage e to do it alone?” For me it takes more courage to do ... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-180 | Audience: [inaudible] Um, okay now, and we uh have heard about the uh [4:17:30]
ayahuasca so, um, can you comment on this kind [inaudible] and contrast to what you’re talking about [inaudible]
TM: You mean the group mind on ayahuasca?
Audience: Yes, [inaudible] Is that possible.
TM: Oh yeah. No, it’s very possible.... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-181 | Q: ???
Yeah yeah yeah. Now as I just said I don't like taking psychedelics with people, I guess what I should have said is that I hate being responsible because I don't mind taking Ayahuasca with 30 people none of whom speak English in a hut up some river but that's because I know that the old shamans are in charge, t... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-182 | Years ago in 76 Kat and I, it before we were married, in Peru and we had found this Shaman who was very good and he had a following and we were, you know, apprenticing ourselves to him and he - the style of the Peruvian Mestizo people I mean cultures handle this differently but they are never straight with each other. ... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-183 | And the level of social tension ease meetings would just rise and rise but nobody would ever say anything to this guy and tell him to bug out and can that crap so one night this is happened to meetings in a row this is the third meeting like this everybody had hoped this guy wouldn't come. So then he showed up, then we... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-184 | tape these Ayahuasca songs so it was a double irritation to us that this guy was so out of control. Laughter a particularly long song by the old guys with him just hammering against them I could feel Kat who has a real Irish temper getting more and more pissed off at this guy and finally at the end of this song when th... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-185 | 'badadadada'! And you know then you realize wow we're in over our heads here you can't chill shi from Shinola in this thing. This concludes tape three. Our program continues [4:24:00] with tape four. | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-186 | Transcribed by Eva Petakovic
TM: ...so that’s an example of, you know, magical power condensed onto the material plane. Yes?
Audience: [inaudible] ...purple triangles coming from your head… [inaudible]
TM: Clearly, the same- the same phenomenon, uh, yeah!
Audience: Um, first of all, I have to ask [4:23:30] [inaudib... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-187 | TM: But somehow our perception of what’s been going on is- is skewed. We don’t- you know Rupert and I talked a lot about this. He had the idea that- he said- you know- the search for a psychic- the search for proof of psychic power has not been a very happy story, with card-flipping and this sort of thing. And Rupert [... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-188 | this person’s head. And they would be asked, are people looking at you? Or are people looking at the back of- of- uh- looking at their lap? And certain people -you can quickly satisfy yourself- were able to detect this a phenomenal amount of the time, well beyond statistical, uh, you know, [4:27:00] the rules of probab... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-189 | But then when I get back to the hotel room, sure enough, by overriding my own instincts, I- I- get into trouble. | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-190 | TM:I think... psychic ability, well this is worth talking about, that we cannot be- or how can I put it? We cannot- uh- evolve [4:28:00] beyond the confines of our language. And if you have a language that makes telepathy impossible, then telepathy will be impossible inside that culture. You see we all pay lip service ... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-191 | TM: Well, yeah people have this ideas, yeah. And you know, like people say, well magic is accomplished because the person the magic is being done to, knows that it’s happening, and therefore they unconsciously participate in their own demise. But I’ve observed these shamans in the Amazon, and they will go- if a shaman ... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-192 | Audience: Ok, so, uhm… our culture then is uhm... [inaudible] and uhm the whole idea of magic, and things like uhm, the existence of elves, uhm… [inaudible] people would laugh at that unless uhm they are on the supposed fringes. Uhm… do you think, that this kind of thing could come back? Do you think that we will [4:31... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-193 | TM: Yes, sure, because what you have to do is you have to shift the locus. I mean, it’s kind of hard to explain but, every civilization has a locus and, and we have disempowered ourselves by shifting the locus to an imagined class of experts. We have an incredibly peculiar version of how the universe is put together. [... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-194 | that means, of these things becomes pretty , uhn, questionable. See, one of the things I think that psychedelics could do is r- give back to us what I call uhm, the immediacy of felt experience. Since the rise of cartesian analysis in the 17th century [4:33:00] everything that we experience has been defined as, what ar... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-195 | you how you’re supposed to stay tuned to your girlfriend. So somehow we have sold out to abstraction. And this is something about science, you know? And the demonic [4:34:00] power of numerical analysis and stuff like this. I think that w- part of what the psychedelic revolution is and why it is so politically threaten... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-196 | is that the president will call a press conference [4:35:00] and say, you know, that the time has come to speak frankly about certain declassified material and that, yes, in fact it has been going on. I mean, that’s not how it’s going to happen. The way it’s going to happen is on five grams in silent darkness in your l... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-197 | concerned. The only thing that’s real to you is yourself and your immediate surroundings. And if we could [4:36:00] | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-198 | (There is a loop in part of the audio somewhere between here and 4:42:00)
Transcribed by Paul Mullins
[4:36:00]TM:empower that,you know,our political problems would disappear overnight.We are infantile and we do love it.We don’t really try to claim our existential validity,and those who do are called mad, because the... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-199 | TM: Yes,well,it becomes real when we talk about it.I mean, one of the most satisfying experiences that i have as a public speaker is, sometimes, after speaking to[4:37:00]groups, like last night, somebody will come up afterwards and say:”I thought i was crazy, until i heard you speak.Now i know there are at least two o... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-200 | TM: ...well, see, people are buying other people’s experience. I mean, if you’re not a quantum physicist, why in the world should you take those people seriously?[4:39:00]They’re talking gibberish. What power does it have over you?, except that it comes presented on the platter of science.Say: “You must believe this! I... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-201 | TM:Well,every entity has a value dark[4:40:30] dimension.I mean,surely only the most naive of quantum physicists believe that,you know,the quantum electrodynamics description of the electron is all there is to say about the electron,because biology is made out of electrons and you can’t reason from quantum electrodynam... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-202 | [4:42:00] the locus, I mean it’s kind of hard to explain because every civilization has a locus. And we have disempowered ourselves by shifting the locus to an imagined class of experts. We have an incredibly peculiar version of how the universe is put together. First of all, we rely, a lot of the time, on the notion o... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-203 | the things I think that psychedelics could do is give back to us what I call the immediacy of felt experience. Since the rise of cartesian analysis in the 17th century, everything that we experience has been defined as, what are called, secondary characteristics. Color, a secondary characteristic. [4:43:30] Uhm feeling... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-204 | out to abstraction. And this is something about science you know? And the demonic power of numerical analysis and stuff like this. I think that part of what the psychedelic revolution [4:44:30] is, and why it is so politically threatening, is because a psychedelic person does not believe anything they cannot confirm fo... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-205 | time has come to speak frankly about certain declassified material and that yes in fact,uhm, it has been going on. [4:45:30] I mean, that’s now how it’s going to happen. The way it’s going to happen is on 5 grams in silent darkness in your living room. And that’s real! You know, if flying saucers were to land on the so... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-206 | surroundings. And if we could empower that, you know, our political problems would disappear overnight. We are infantile and we do love it. We don’t really try to claim [4:46:30] our existential validity. And those who do are called mad because they depart from the sanctioned paradigm. Over here somebody. Yea. | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-207 | Audience: [inaudible]
TM: Yes so it becomes real when we talk about it. I mean, one of the most satisfying experiences that I have as a public speaker is sometimes, after speaking to groups like last night, somebody will come up afterwards and say, “I thought I was crazy until I heard you speak. [4:47:30] Now I know t... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-208 | Audience: So weren't you arguing the opposite point you know when you spoke of ... (inaudible?)
Well see people are buying other people's experience. I mean if you're not a quantum physicist, why in the world should you take those people seriously? They're talking gibberish. What power does it have over you except tha... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-209 | TM: Well, every entity has a ‘value dark dimension’. I mean I… Surely only the most naive of quantum physicist believe that the... Uhh, you uh, you know the quantum electrodynamic description of the electron is all there is to say about the electron because biology is made out of electrons and you can't reason from, fr... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-210 | very small subset of those things which can actually be captured in language, but they’re a vanishingly small uh set of the whole thing, mostly it’s all mystery. I don’t know why this is so surprising to people I mean where is it writ large that bipedal primates with binocular vision are supposed to be carrying around ... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-211 | and better but they will never be more than crude approximations to an unspeakable mystery. | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-212 | Audience: do you find this tragic?
TM: No! I find this exhilarating, I think part of the p... male... or part of the ego dominator... pathology is to demand closure out of everything, there is no closure, you have to learn to sit with the messiness of the mystery you know it’s this thing we said this morning the bigge... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-213 | Audience: How do you spell Godel?
TM: G-o-d-e-l. And what he showed, I think this is the most important intellectual step taken in the 21st century. He showed that any formal system will produce true statements [4:55:30] which are not provable within the confines of the formal system itself. Now what this actually mea... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-214 | Audience: [inaudible]
TM: You don’t need a complete map. I mean, I’m not such a van of Wittgenstein but he seems to have raised his ugly head here. Uhm, Wittgenstein used to say “We do not seek statements which are true. [4:58:00] We seek statements which are true enough.” That’s this genuflection to the incommensurab... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-215 | Audience: [inaudible]
TM: Yes, although, I have real problems with probability theory which we’ll probably get into tomorrow. I think that, in a sense, probability theory has made it almost impossible for us to [4:59:00] think clearly about anything. Because it- it contains certain built in insidious assumptions that ... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-216 | The other problem that haunts probabilities theory is that it assumes that time is an absolute flat plane. It assumes that....No physicist tells you in his lab notes, "Please perform my experiment on Tuesdays, Wednesdays, and Saturdays, because it won't work any other time." In other words,[5:01:00] the assumption is m... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-217 | Uh, a curious thing about probability theory is, [5:01:30] say you want to know how much current is flowing through a wire, here's how probability theory finds out: It measures the current flowing through the wire with a meter. It measures it 1,000 times. It takes those values and adds them together. Then it divides by... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-218 | Audience1: I think you've given Probability Theory much more than what's really there. Inherently, what it [inaudible] all about is simply acknowledging that there are variables in anything that we can't know. [inaudible] It's really nothing more than that.
Audience2: Which brings you back to just the [inaudible]
TM:... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-219 | Audience: [inaudible] but I think a lot of [inaudible] that just doesn't exist. I agree...uh...[inaudible] it takes is the notion that there are things going on here that [5:04:30] we can't know, even though that's not acknowledged by most people who are [inaudible]. That's the reality [inaudible]
TM: But don't you th... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-220 | Transcribed Sheree Geo
[5:06:00] is the simplest assumption, try it first and see if it works. But I maintain that you know science has in certain areas been very slow to make progress in the social domain in econometrics in ahh.. the you know.. multiple body problems and stuff like that. Well I think this is because ... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-221 | [Audience Inaudible]
In a given situation. If you’re flipping coins probability theory is probably a good guide, you wouldn’t want to run your love affair on probability theory uhh so you have to choose the domain [5:08:30] you have to recognise the applicable models, the applicable tools for whatever domain you’re lo... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-222 | No no.. No I don’t think it's bad, I thi- I’m entirely in support of whatever the universe is in the process of trying to do here ummm.. I think that.. uh.. I think that history is ending [5:10:00] and that it was a temporary perturbation of the system and that we can anchor ourselves through this chaos-trophy or whate... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-223 | Transcribed by Luke Danton
[5:12:00] As the temperature of the universe fell, atomic systems crystallized out of that plasmic environment, well then ahh.. further cooling of the universe leads to more complex kinds of bonds and the cooking out of complex elements from stars, the original universe was made entirely of ... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-224 | Now science has no notion of this concept of novelty. In the East there is such a concept it’s called Dao, and Dao builds things up and pulls them down according to its own mysterious laws. Tomorrow I will argue when we get the computer that its laws are not in fact entirely mysterious and that we can discover ah.. the... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-225 | One way that I think of the psychedelic experiences is – you know you heard me talk about hyperspace, super-space, this kind of thing- it really does seem to me that reality is some kind of a very complex geometric object of some sort and you know how they teach you in trigonometry that all possible ellipses can be obt... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-226 | Transcribed by Nicole
™:[3:18:00]
There is no way to find out of course, cause they are all dead, but there are certain episodes in the evolution of western culture that suggest that people may be much more plastic than we ordinarily suppose.First example uhh would be : How can it be that in the middle 1500s perspect... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-227 | Now another example of this kind of thing that’s not so well known but that is an example that aii Marshall McLuhan makes a lot of is saint Augustine- the great father of the Christian church.He had a reputation for being[3:19:30] a very holy man and the accounts of his contemporaries say that a way that people would s... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-228 | The logos seems to me a kind of similar thing.It was a mental behaviour, function, which, for reasons which are probably complex and unknowable, slipped out of reach.That’s why, it seems to me, the psychedelics are very close to being able to modify our behaviours along this kind of lines because ,[3:21:00] there are n... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-229 | ™:How it works with psilocybin?
Audience:[inaudible]
™: Well ahh, I mean I take when I take psilocybin I take it on an empty stomach, I don’t fast or anything like that, I just don’t eat for six hours- I don’t call that fasting.. Uhh, and then I take it in silent darkness.That’s number one - very important.The next t... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-230 | [audience question]
T.M: The drug is ibogaine the plant it comes from is tabernanthe iboga. Yeah?
[audience question “you mentioned combing the DMT with iboga, what what's the experience like, what is the change?]
T.M:: Mhm? well that's what ayahuasca is [5:24:31] you see the DMT is then not destroyed in your intest... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-231 | Bio Assay [5:26:06]
which you must do because the cook must taste the soup.
[Audience Q]
T.M: pa ga, Peganum harmala P-E-G-A-N-U-M Peganum Harmala in the
psycho falacity {5:26:21].
[Audience Q]
T.M: Well we never tried the experiment again [5:26:33] because ahh Dennis felt that he really made the maximum contribu... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-232 | [Audience Q]
T.M: well, ahhl he doesn't remember it very clearly, he, his impression was [5:28:01] that it lasted about 5 days it actually lasted 3 weeks so the real staff that would have alarmed him he fortunately was to out of it to see or remember, but I was there throughout the whole thing and saw it, and uhm, I t... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-233 | Transcribed by Jess Harse | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-234 | TM: and it [5:30:00] all came down to an experiment that he wanted to perform that seemed to me so unlikely to have any effect whatsoever that I felt was perfectly alright to let this experiment go forward because I would have bet dollars to donuts that nothing would happen, instead all hell broke loose at the conclusi... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-235 | seemed so wildly improbable to me that it went forward but in fact at the conclusion of the experiment something changed in me, and I essentially became who I now appear to be, but before that I wasn’t, I was sort of a [inaudible] [5:31:30] and ahh undirected person of some sort and then the... tomorrow you will see wh... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-236 | know, part of what Human History’s conclusion will be is what I call ‘turning the human body inside out’ [5:32:30]; we want the soul to become visible, we want the body to become an idea, freely commanded in the imagination; and then at that point as James Joyce said ‘Man will be durgible (?)’, that was as close as he ... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-237 | Audience: [inaudible question]
TM: No. Good point. The vine contains the [inaudible] another plant contains the DMT, this makes Ayahuasca unique among this shamanic tools because, you see, all the rest of them - peyote, mushrooms, San Pedro, ibogaine, morning glories [5:33:30], and whatever else, cannabis - are simply... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-238 | Audience: [inaudible]
TM: Telepathine yes. Ahh Ayahuasca was discovered by Richard Spruce… in 1853 and then in the early years of the 20th century the germanest [inaudible] brought a lot of it back to Berlin and Louis Lewin characterized an alkaloid which they named telepathine but it was not realised then until [5:35... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-239 | TM: Well yes, has an effect, at high doses it can cause hallucination by itself.. The uh, the plant which contains the DMT, normally , there are a couple of possible substitute, [5:36:30] but normally what’s used in the Amazon is Cicotria Veridis. Uh, this is a little coffee-like plant that contains DMT in the roots. O... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-240 | the Sibundoi Indians [5:37:30] and uh, he took ayahuasca. And during the trip a plant was revealed to him. And he was told that it would be alkaloid positive. And it was alkaloid positive. Well, this is now anecdotally embedded in the literature. Was it dumb luck? Was it synchronicity? Or was it that plants tell you ab... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-241 | it was absolutely god awful. It was different from any bad trip I’d ever had. It didn’t seem to be about my personality it seemed to be about core processes. There was a little pacman thing and I could see it moving through my memory. Just chew, chew, chew, chew, chew. And I didn’t know, you know that horrifying scene ... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-242 | I said, you know if I can’t pull out of this place, there’s a room in a back ward somewhere and they will just sit me there and look in on me every 12 or 14 hours, and that’ll be my story. | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-243 | Audience: You said earlier that you were surprised that you had no kind [garbled audio] We have a clinical climate that’s not congenial to exploring.
[5:40:00]
TM: Because I don’t feel particularly courageous. I don’t feel that this is unusual what we’re doing here. Am I crazy? Could be. Uh, it seems to me, would see... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-244 | [5:41:30]
TM: Wow! Well either I’m crazy or they are. I don’t know. See, I think that , ah that, ah you know how, um, if you confront certain, um, well butterflies, or deer. There are certain kinds of animals that if you move slowly enough, they can’t tell you’re there. Because they’re set up for edge detection. And i... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-245 | TM: Well counter-pressures, this book was banned in Florida but for crying out loud look at the Russians, they were able to toss out the Communist Party, well now that's a pretty scary thing to go up against. We don't have anything comparable to that (ahh) in terms of it's depth of penetration into our lives and yet th... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-246 | TM: Oh, it might help... people... i mean, how would it help?
Audience: [inaudible]...strength in numbers.
TM: Strength in numbers, well i think people [5:45:00] should support psychedelic communities, archival projects (ahh), legalization moves (ahh), yes but mainly i think what we all need to do is get more loaded.... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-247 | what we want to do. The mushroom [5:45:30] if it's as great as i say it is then it doesn't need a mob clearing the way for it, it's perfectly able to advance its own agenda. The thing is just not to yield to fear. Cause if, as i said, if you yield to fear you do the man's work for the man and that makes you the man! So... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-248 | as gay people were, say, in the early 50s [5:46:30] or something. If they can do it, we can do it. If black people can go from slavery to a legitimate claim on full social integration into the body politic than we can do it too. But not if we, no, in America nobody gets nothing unless they demand it. So as long as we b... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-249 | were we [5:47:30] yesterday? And our, [audience laughs] (ahh), is there, i recall there were hands up. To the people who belong to those hands still have the concerns but went with them? | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-250 | Audience: [inaudible]...local alliances and (ahh), psychedelic communities...[inaudible]
TM: Talk about forming local alliances and psychedelic communities... Well i think, you know, as i said this is your affinity group. You can't recognize psychedelic people walking around on the street [5:48:00]
Transcribed by Tia... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-251 | ™: Well a lot of [5:49:00] people feel more secure uhh doing journeys if they have uhh some kind of ground control and in the most casual form that can just be your best friend who doesn’t do it but you do. Or if you suspect that fairly deep and uhm charged issues are going to rise-arise out of it, why you want it to b... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-252 | you can hardly contemplate the notion without laughing out loud and the facilitator has this - keeps trying to bring you back, say, ‘well you’re doing the work! We’re here to do the work!’, well, then you say, well, you know, having a knock-down drag-out fight while is somebody is loaded isn’t exactly the way to go eit... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-253 | follow your own thoughts you know? And i think we change in the presence of another person, you know? We create a persona, and uh it takes a lot of energy to maintain the persona. And in that situation there’s no reason, so why do it? Yeah? | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-254 | [Question from audience] [5:51:30]
™: Well, not exactly, i mean people always say can you do it on the natch? And i sorta feel like if i could do [5:52:00] it on the natch i’d be alarmed enough to check myself in for some serious mental health care.Uhh, It's too radical, you don’t want to be able to do that [5:52:00] ... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-255 | Audience: [inaudible question]
™: In principle, i, [5:52:30] i agree with that and i’m fascinated to try anything anybody has in mind but uhh you have to be very demanding. And I think too many people are not demanding at all, I mean, you sit people down in a room and tell them we’re gonna repeat ooma humm 500 times a... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-256 | Transcribed by Jonathan Laliberte
TM: [5:54:00] Idiosyncratic artists gathered through the history of art … g- Gustave Moreau, James Ensor, we mentioned Hieronymus Bosch. Uhm mmhm know- you know hmm … uhm Matty Carline? … but I’m trying to think of older ones. But- but not- these seem to be unique visions, but not exa... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-257 | Audience: [inaudible question] [5:55:00]
TM: Well, but this is where the action is. You know, it has to- it has to make sense in the world. Now, I don’t want to suggest, I mean, I- I think … like in the case of psilocybin I have no doubt whatsoever that if you take five grams of psilocybin [5:55:30] every four days fo... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-258 | Audience: So really, the reason to maintain it is so you can get back in the psychological state and communicate, but … what I’m thinking is that I’m sure [5:57:00] that there are people who have pursued it to the point that they just walked out of [inaudible] come back.
TM: Mmm, yes, well that’s what I wanted to say.... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-259 | Audience: [laughs] I wondered if ahh in your experiences in Amazon or [inaudible] if you found that they were able to uhm to do this [5:59:00] without drugs or whether they were even interested in?
TM: No, largely not. Ahh, in the Amazon- I mean I discussed this with people and they- they said: “No”, you know, “you mu... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-260 | [06:01:00]
THIS CONCLUDES TAPE 4. OUR PROGRAM CONTINUES WITH TAPE 5
Terence: why is there no talk of the combining of the techniques with psychedelica?
Audience:
Terence: well, I don’t know exactly, I mean I would certainly agree. [06:01:30] See I think that all religion is based on the experience of ecstasy.
And ... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-261 | Terence: And a religion like Hinduism represents to my mind an extreme case. The roots of hinduism are in the soma rite. For 3000 years this is what hindu religiosity was about; it was an intoxicant, eh and ah without the intoxicant there was no [06:02:00] connection to the mystery. Well, then for some reason it became... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-262 | obscure [06:03:00] if- from this level of consciousness it just becomes an: “of course, of course it works” so it seems to me the lost ingredient is the psychedelic. I mean ehh y-you know, if you go to India and you have any illusions about Sadhus, I mean Sadhus they’re hash-heads, with a line of patter, that’s all. I ... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-263 | loaded with them and talk to them their attitude is more like scientists. They will agree that they can cure and find lost objects and predict the weather and all that but they don’t understand how this works. They’re very eager to admit that it’s all a big mystery and that beyond the cheerful set of shamanic technique... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-264 | Audience:
[06:05:00]
Terence: right
Audience:
Terence: right
Audience: of a contact high, [06:05:30] when you are around people
Terence: oh I think contact highs are very real, ehm, not only contact highs but there are also contact lows eh, [audience laughs] which are very noticeable, y-you know there’s a - there... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-265 | Transcribed by Lucas Mathias
Alophrenia is when your friend is put in the hospital for schizophrenia, and you go to visit him and you become – you begin acting so peculiar that they don’t let you out. This is a common phenomenon: misbehavior by people who have come to visit people who have been hospitalized for schizo... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-266 | Q: (unintelligible)
T: Now, the problem is one of – the question is, is there in Huichol art a trace of this psychedelic dimension. I guess there’s a trace, the problem is – is twofold, the problem is one of material, with wood and beads and pitch it’s very hard to get the – the – to contort that into the object seen,... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-267 | T: No I’m not sure, exactly, I mean the funny thing about the extraterrestrial position is that, it depends on how long it’s been since you’ve taken mushrooms, how creditable it seems. If it’s recent it seems the only possible explanation. If you wait a few months, then skepticism and reason begins to level the landsca... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-268 | Transcribed by Kristen Askin
[6:12:00] intelligence would pass through a phase of self-analysis where (6:12:04) it would realize it was made out of DNA and it would then sequence itself. We’re about to do this ourselves. Well, that means that most extraterrestrials will be the product of their own reflexive design pro... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-269 | Uh, the other thing is, then, the spore, looks perfectly designed to sustain itself in outer space. If you want to store spores for longevity you create conditions as close to the conditions in outer space as you can. High vacuum. Very low temperature. Uh, the casing of a spore is one of the most electron dense organic... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-270 | And there are not that many possibilities. Where are we going to go? The political geniuses who run this planet have made travel to the stars virtually impossible. I mean, don’t kid yourselves, it isn’t only a matter of announcing a program. Our short, stubby fingers couldn’t assemble something like a Saturn-5 moon roc... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-271 | Audience: ?? can jumpstart an evolution
TM: That’s a funny question I don't know because it's so hard to tease apart genetics and environment. I mean they certainly have had a jump start on evolution picture of hanging out in the space that our lives have created. Uh, you know I think children need lots of attention l... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-272 | TM: Yeah well when children are very young you know all kinds of psychic phenomenon happen and you know I think mothers nursing mothers and their relationship to their two children as intensely telepathic. I remember when my daughter was not very old, she must have been like about three and a half and I had the dream a... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-273 | Audience: ?? go back to some of the questions about why you don't want to take it every day for 40 days in a row. And it’s more the psychological level that what causes- I’ve worked with ?? therapies in Mexico ??? stories about Jung and uh, many of the people who have gotten into the situation of psychosis are people w... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
d55f86f30464-274 | Audience: I wanted to ask you how you see ???
TM: Well I don't have a very popular position on ritual and I blame it on the mushroom because I just quote the mushroom. And the mush - I said what about ritual? And it said that's fine if you don't know what you're doing. And I think that, that you know, it's really not ... | https://www.asktmk.com//talks/Search+For+The+Original+Tree+Of+Knowledge |
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