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[250.14 --> 256.10] high structure high abstraction and um i've kind of uh kind of that was my cat in the background |
[256.10 --> 264.48] she says hi um so i've kind of always had this uh rebellious streak and i've kind of i feel like |
[264.48 --> 272.38] over the last um 10 years i've kind of watched people kind of also gain a rebellious streak like |
[272.38 --> 276.76] for example you used to not really be able to just have a hash that wasn't acceptable and like |
[276.76 --> 281.60] pass around the values of a form field now everyone does it there used to be no such thing as json you |
[281.60 --> 287.40] had to have objects and structure for everything now everyone will put something into json uh wikis are |
[287.40 --> 294.44] becoming a big thing and uh i sort of you know had all these ideas that i kind of suppressed and |
[294.44 --> 299.82] squashed and just used on my own uh it's actually more like 13 or 14 years from the beginning but it |
[299.82 --> 304.32] started out pretty rough and it didn't even have have a name in the beginning it's just a bunch of |
[304.32 --> 313.50] collections of uh of elisp uh stuff basically where i could expand stuff in the shell and uh run um |
[313.50 --> 319.36] expand file paths in the shell navigate files and then um run shell commands like in a text buffer |
[319.36 --> 327.28] um and i just i just had a few like moments where i realized like wow you actually can do these very |
[327.28 --> 333.76] flexible things but have them be in a pretty nice structure sort of like the first time i saw wiki it |
[333.76 --> 339.94] blew me away i kind of thought wow you can actually have that just these big text files where you uh put |
[339.94 --> 346.44] free form text in with headings and then that's you know just a flat namespace uh you know where |
[346.44 --> 353.16] you've got like uh everything dumped in you've got a project page next to a page of contacts next to |
[353.16 --> 358.08] everything else and like wow that simple thing can like be a better solution than like a big massive |
[358.08 --> 366.22] uh file you know uh shared directory of of of stuff for your for your company or you know it can be |
[366.22 --> 371.46] can be better than sharepoint so yeah i've kind of like held on to this zicky idea for a long time |
[371.46 --> 377.96] and i've kind of come to believe it's kind of a pretty big missing piece in the landscape of um |
[377.96 --> 386.14] of tech and um i uh so i was working for banks and insurance companies in ohio eventually kind of |
[386.14 --> 395.00] realized i needed to get out um and i moved out to silicon valley uh to san francisco decided i was |
[395.00 --> 401.82] going to work on my my startup memorize.com which i i did and had interns and and uh part-time employees |
[401.82 --> 408.14] and uh kind of probably should be focusing on that now but instead decided to take a big risk and work |
[408.14 --> 418.46] on this uh crazy open source thing full-time zicky um and uh the kickstarter uh i think now is is the |
[418.46 --> 422.92] time to bring it to the world if you look at my uh github page you'll see a lot of of issues of |
[422.92 --> 429.86] people saying like hey uh had really liked this but had a hard time installing it um and that's |
[429.86 --> 434.44] sort of because i've been i've been neglecting people um i've basically wanted to make it for |
[434.44 --> 440.14] myself i use it for everything for development and notes and everything and um i've kind of |
[440.14 --> 446.18] intentionally let it let the installer be crappy for a while because i almost didn't want people to |
[446.18 --> 450.58] use it because i had all these features that's a good way to not let them use it is just keep |
[450.58 --> 456.20] a feature suppressed yeah i'm not even i'm super proud of that but i wasn't really suppressing |
[456.20 --> 459.80] features it was just i wasn't improving installer because i would spend time on it and it would take |
[459.80 --> 466.02] a lot of time uh but i had these this like list of three really big things i wanted to do and i just |
[466.02 --> 469.54] recently i've kind of finished them up so now i'm to the point i'm like all right it's ready for the |
[469.54 --> 475.46] world and uh kickstarter seemed like a good way to to reach out so you have a really solid video on |
[475.46 --> 480.60] the kickstarter page but for those listening can you give kind of the the elevator pitch for ziki |
[480.60 --> 486.26] um what it does and how it's different than what we currently have sure um yeah there are a lot of |
[486.26 --> 494.76] ways of describing ziki the simplest way is it's like a command line uh but it's a better way of |
[494.76 --> 499.98] running shell commands it's not meant to replace the command line it's meant to augment it um so for |
[499.98 --> 506.24] example if you do an ls instead of then having to do a cd to like you know the fourth directory that |
[506.24 --> 511.52] you see on the screen and ziki you can just move your cursor down to that fourth directory and then |
[511.52 --> 518.88] control enter to expand so you can navigate directories like um kind of like a gui app um |
[518.88 --> 524.94] and then when you run shell commands you can uh you can type a prompt on any line in basically a big |
[524.94 --> 530.00] text area by just typing a dollar sign rather than being restricted to the uh you know the single |
[530.00 --> 536.56] prompt at the bottom as is the case with traditional shell consoles and then anytime you run a command |
[536.56 --> 542.78] you can immediately type to incrementally filter down the output and then with many commands you can |
[542.78 --> 550.02] move your cursor down to the output of like say git if you uh type git and you move your cursor down to |
[550.02 --> 556.16] log and control enter it'll expand that and run the git log command for you and if you then move it down |
[556.16 --> 563.56] to a commit and expand that it'll go one little deeper and show you you know your commit message |
[563.56 --> 569.18] and all the files and then you can drill in and and uh interact with the output as though it was like a |
[569.18 --> 576.10] gui tree so it's very free form just like a wiki yeah very free form you can edit anything |
[576.10 --> 584.82] so in practice i i suppose um how many users has it had i know you have on your video a couple guys |
[584.82 --> 589.78] who said i've been using it for seven years i'm sure that's not in the current form but in this |
[589.78 --> 594.16] in the in the one that you show in the video where it's free form and you can click here and you can |
[594.16 --> 599.02] drill down in trees and stuff how many people uh have been using that or how long have you been |
[599.02 --> 605.14] using that in practice and how does it feel as opposed to what we currently do the uh drilling into the |
[605.14 --> 611.30] file trees has been there since pretty much the day one so that my two uh friends that have used it |
[611.30 --> 615.74] for for years and years they they use that the file tree drilling into the output of shell commands is |
[615.74 --> 620.66] relatively new so there aren't many people that that use it um and there are a few people here and |
[620.66 --> 624.62] there out of the net that have got it installed um it's hard for me to estimate it's relatively low |
[624.62 --> 630.74] number because the install is kind of not great uh as far as how it how it feels um i don't know |
[630.74 --> 635.28] like some people it's hard to say i think it's an individual experience like some people |
[635.28 --> 641.38] just really really get it and they're like whoa i can see how this these you know two or three things |
[641.38 --> 646.34] would be an improvement i can filter down i can drill in i can copy and paste a command and run it |
[646.34 --> 651.16] again and still have the old outputs and i can delete the lines and the output that i i want because |
[651.16 --> 654.94] like you said that everything's free form you can edit everything and some people just say like well |
[654.94 --> 660.96] wait a minute why wouldn't i just use my shell to me it feels just just sort of natural and and |
[660.96 --> 665.36] like and like obvious improvements for you know for some cases not all it's not meant like it's a |
[665.36 --> 669.00] different place the shell there's some things the shell is like really great at like asynchronous stuff |
[669.00 --> 678.62] it kind of feels like not exactly like this but it kind of feels like um like what is the like |
[678.62 --> 683.58] like kind of an irb session where you can kind of jump into what's the other kind of really awesome |
[683.58 --> 688.94] irb jared the the one that's out recently i don't use a proc is it what is it called again |
[688.94 --> 694.76] pri right yeah pri that's what it is um actually did a pairing session with conrad erwin one of |
[694.76 --> 700.08] erwin one of the pri guys uh yeah pri is awesome yeah it seems a little bit like i mean obviously that's |
[700.08 --> 707.38] you know ruby but um this is kind of everything it seems a little like what that provides but on a |
[707.38 --> 715.42] grander scale for the entire shell yeah it's um it's they're a little different uh like basically |
[715.42 --> 721.82] in ziki everything is just happens from a text file uh so you know when they when you run a command |
[721.82 --> 727.12] the output is just inserted as text into your text file then you can save it uh pri is is kind of more |
[727.12 --> 734.02] along the lines of like you know um a repl and has some other cool integration points but yeah when i |
[734.02 --> 739.12] when i got together with conrad erwin uh several months ago we had some really cool ideas for kind |
[739.12 --> 745.10] of the two complementing each other like making a ziki interface a ziki command that could call the |
[745.10 --> 750.34] pri features and sort of drill in and like cdls into the functions and stuff i want to get back to |
[750.34 --> 755.00] that at some point because i think that'd be really awesome i was gonna say i think interactions are |
[755.00 --> 759.70] really it seems like from your kickstarter that's one of the main focuses of your development uh roadmap |
[759.70 --> 766.64] is to get it integrated into vim into emacs into sublime text and so on um right now is it kind of |
[766.64 --> 773.58] in its own world and it's not really integrated into the environment well right now it supports um aquamax |
[773.58 --> 780.54] and emacs okay those two text editors aquamax is is basically a very user-friendly version of emacs where |
[780.54 --> 786.12] you can command c command v uh you can use the mouse to select text and you can type to replace you know |
[786.12 --> 792.88] it's very much like a mac native text editor uh so that's the the editor i recommend people to use |
[792.88 --> 796.18] they can you know if they don't like emacs they don't have to really know it's emacs they can use |
[796.18 --> 802.14] the menus and stuff and they can use you know command s to save etc so it runs in that as sort of the |
[802.14 --> 810.14] default and then it also runs in like base uh uh emacs and terminal emacs and yeah there's |
[810.14 --> 815.98] tentative vim support but it's very very weak there's a tentative sublime support but it needs |
[815.98 --> 818.96] to be improved which is what the kickstarter is half of what the kickstarter is about |
[818.96 --> 826.20] um and there's this brand new xsh where you can run it right from the in the shell console it's not |
[826.20 --> 832.38] released yet that's i'm going to do first and that'll let people just type xsh space you know |
[832.38 --> 836.84] get on the command line and they don't even have to worry about setting anything up it'll just pop up |
[836.84 --> 842.18] and i'll have uh stuff right there on the screen saying hey type control q to quit and type control e to |
[842.18 --> 847.74] expand so that's probably going to be the defaults that just xsh right from the i'd be pretty good |
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