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[1031.24 --> 1032.08] Is it one person? |
[1032.18 --> 1032.86] Is it two people? |
[1032.94 --> 1034.36] Is it the entire team? |
[1034.36 --> 1042.90] What are the thoughts around like reviewing the PR and how many people need to know about this great work you've done before it's in the world? |
[1043.38 --> 1044.30] Natalie, you're smiling. |
[1045.18 --> 1046.50] I'm sorry I'm doing this again. |
[1046.58 --> 1048.20] I want to bring back to the previous question. |
[1049.92 --> 1050.70] Do it. |
[1051.10 --> 1053.66] So when you say too long or too short, what do we measure? |
[1054.34 --> 1058.94] Number of lines, number of commits, number of files. |
[1058.94 --> 1062.30] It can be depending on many things. |
[1062.64 --> 1064.40] The answers can vary in the same PR. |
[1065.00 --> 1069.44] Like it can be one PR where you removed one file, but that's like many lines. |
[1069.90 --> 1070.40] Is that long? |
[1070.46 --> 1070.84] Is that short? |
[1071.44 --> 1072.58] This is my thought now. |
[1072.76 --> 1076.98] But whoever listens doesn't know that Angelica can see me thinking out loud like that. |
[1077.24 --> 1079.36] So I'm guessing there's a question coming up. |
[1079.36 --> 1085.62] So you have to trust her psychic abilities as a product manager to kind of look at the engineers in front of her and like, you want to say something? |
[1085.84 --> 1086.02] Speak. |
[1086.54 --> 1088.44] That's the secret superpower of product managers. |
[1088.66 --> 1089.42] I can see it. |
[1089.56 --> 1093.16] Also, I'm learning like now, actually, just as a go time host. |
[1093.28 --> 1097.94] Every time I ask a question, I should pause and defer to Natalie and be like, do you have a follow up question? |
[1099.88 --> 1101.06] That is a great question. |
[1101.14 --> 1102.42] I'm very glad that you asked it. |
[1103.22 --> 1104.40] That definitely makes sense. |
[1104.50 --> 1105.30] Asked it. |
[1106.06 --> 1106.78] Really babbling. |
[1107.32 --> 1108.36] Do you have a view on that? |
[1108.94 --> 1109.30] Yes. |
[1110.12 --> 1110.48] Wonderful. |
[1110.66 --> 1111.66] I'd love to hear it. |
[1112.16 --> 1114.72] But we're here to hear other people's opinions. |
[1114.94 --> 1118.94] So I am curious to hear the crowd's opinions more than I am interested in sharing. |
[1119.14 --> 1121.76] I mean, I'm also happy to share mine, but I'm more curious about others. |
[1122.44 --> 1124.80] Is there like a convention in your team, for example? |
[1124.96 --> 1127.14] How do you, would you say this is too much? |
[1127.20 --> 1128.04] Like, what would you look at? |
[1128.20 --> 1131.94] Yeah, I'm really curious about hearing more about Sarah's like the team standard. |
[1131.94 --> 1139.26] But at least from me, if I'm reviewing something, the first thing I look at is the number of files that were changed. |
[1139.80 --> 1141.22] That's just like the easiest thing to look at. |
[1141.28 --> 1145.86] If it's like a long list, I am going to go to lunch maybe and then come back to it later. |
[1146.18 --> 1153.84] It's definitely easier to just see, to review something that's like a couple files versus something that's touching multiple directories at a time. |
[1153.84 --> 1159.08] And then because I have to go back and forth referencing things and seeing how it might affect other things. |
[1159.54 --> 1162.72] It's just definitely files would be my number thing, number one thing. |
[1162.80 --> 1165.24] And then typically the norm on our team is one commit. |
[1165.38 --> 1167.72] So it's not something like one commit per PR. |
[1167.90 --> 1171.30] So it's not something that gives much information for us. |
[1171.78 --> 1174.76] Yeah, I definitely think files are a good initial indicator. |
[1174.76 --> 1190.76] And sometimes that can be misleading because you could have a bunch of files only have one line change or you moved a folder into a subfolder and that changed like a bunch of files and you can just check all those off as okay. |
[1191.24 --> 1197.12] But I think that it's a good question, Ali, because I think it's a hard thing to actually measure well. |
[1197.12 --> 1210.02] And the analogy I try to use and that I recently used at the New York Times to kind of explain like how to break down your PRs ties into your question, Angelica, about the number of reviewers. |
[1210.44 --> 1222.32] But my analogy is that if my ticket is to bake a cake and let's say it's chocolate cake, we've got some buttercream frosting, little raspberry layer in there. |
[1222.38 --> 1223.12] It's a nice cake. |
[1223.12 --> 1235.10] Like if I go and bake the cake and come back and Angelica, you're a frosting expert and Jeff, you are a cake expert and Natasha, you are the absolute queen of fillings. |
[1235.64 --> 1236.42] It's harder. |
[1236.66 --> 1243.78] I have to get all of you in a room and cut a slice of cake and like you have to pick it apart and like be an expert on your piece. |
[1244.04 --> 1249.18] And it takes more work to give feedback and it takes more work for me to go fix something. |
[1249.18 --> 1256.18] So if I'm trying to perfect the chocolate cake and Jeff, you're like, this cake is too dry. |
[1256.42 --> 1260.14] Like you have to go back and make it make it less dry. |
[1260.52 --> 1265.12] That is so much more work for me to reconstruct that cake all over again. |
[1265.78 --> 1273.98] But if I break that down and first I make my my chocolate sponge, Jeff, you taste that you give me feedback on it. |
[1273.98 --> 1279.08] I make my filling that I'm going to use Natasha, I get your input on that Angelica. |
[1279.28 --> 1284.08] I ask you for your input on the frosting and kind of perfect those individual pieces. |
[1284.08 --> 1290.08] And then I assemble that final assembled cake is going to be a lot more successful. |
[1290.08 --> 1302.04] So I like to think about it as like breaking it down so that I ideally one person could review it and maybe like one subject matter expert could review that part. |
[1302.98 --> 1306.42] And then when we get to the assembly piece, you're judging me on the assembly. |
[1306.56 --> 1311.56] You already know that the individual components are what we're on the same page about what those components are. |
[1311.56 --> 1319.30] So I think I think it's a hard thing to measure because even just that like, oh, one subject matter expert is not like a hard and fast rule. |
[1319.52 --> 1324.60] This is one of the things I think is something that comes more with experience and intuition. |
[1325.00 --> 1332.98] It's like a skill that you're able to hone as you gain more experience around like what the right size to ask for feedback on is. |
[1332.98 --> 1344.78] But that's my my analogy is that if you're baking a cake and you're asking for a review on it, it's easier to get the individual components reviewed first and then bake your cake or assemble your cake. |
[1347.68 --> 1349.28] That was so great. |
[1350.30 --> 1353.58] It's the teacher in me, you know, we got to bring in the fun things. |
[1355.96 --> 1356.98] That was wonderful. |
[1357.26 --> 1358.62] I feel like I've learned so much. |
[1358.72 --> 1362.78] Genuinely, I will never think of could be ours and construction of a. |
[1362.78 --> 1363.42] Now they're cake. |
[1363.42 --> 1364.74] Feature again in the same way. |
[1365.20 --> 1367.14] Like, can I see the frosting, please? |
[1367.24 --> 1367.46] Please. |
[1368.12 --> 1369.38] Let me check the topping. |
[1369.58 --> 1369.74] Yeah. |
[1369.90 --> 1371.10] How moist is the cake? |
[1371.86 --> 1373.30] How moist is this cake? |
[1373.60 --> 1378.02] I'm going to be very careful who I say that to because some people don't really like the word moist. |
[1378.74 --> 1381.00] I don't particularly, but it's fine. |
[1381.74 --> 1382.48] Judge your audience. |
[1382.68 --> 1382.84] Yeah. |
[1383.64 --> 1384.48] Judge your audience. |
[1384.48 --> 1385.58] Good perception. |
[1386.54 --> 1391.46] So flipping over kind of to the other side of a PR. |
[1391.46 --> 1395.44] How do you go about reviewing a PR? |
[1396.00 --> 1396.76] I'm going to pause. |
[1397.12 --> 1403.68] Natalie, would you like to talk about putting in a PR in any more detail before we switch over? |
[1403.90 --> 1404.30] No, no. |
[1404.38 --> 1404.62] Sorry. |
[1404.72 --> 1406.76] I'll go back to being German and sticking to the schedule. |
[1408.30 --> 1408.88] No, no, no. |
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