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Uh-huh. Huh. And the judicial mishap in this event would be, hey, you got the wrong guy. Look at that guy, uh, at E Systems. Yep. They were they convicted him of a robbery that he could not physically have been able to commit. Yeah. He was too far away when it happened. He had witnesses that were, you know, they weren't dope dealers, they weren't drug fiends, they were employees of a, an establishment that had a very high level of security sense, too. And these were really responsible people. Huh. You know, and they convicted this guy because somebody says, well, he looks like the right guy. They all look the same to me, you know. Yeah. Big lips, flat nose, yep, that was him. Yep. What do you think about, uh, uh, convicted, uh, Well, this is an unusual topic. What do you think about it? Yeah, I, at first I,
it took eight times to find you so I told my husband, uh, you know, what should I say and then he reminded me, but, uh, uh, in his family, uh, what they usually do, on his dad's side, his mom or, uh, the aunts will send out little postcards, like, two or three weeks before reminding everyone where the, the, where to meet and, you know, just, to bring anything, and so they just notify everyone by mail, and then they just meet at, like, a park or something to have like a, a short, uh, or a small, uh, dinner type thing. Well, that sounds great, Ellen. How far away do they come from? Uh, they come from, well, they all meet in Portland and they come as far as, oh, Seattle and, and sometimes we've gone and we were we were living in Utah at the time. Oh, okay. And, uh, the, his, his dad's family is all around the area and his mom's side of the family, they all, uh, have their family reunions in southern Utah and people would come from Seattle to there and, uh, let's see, Nevada and in that area, Washington and Nevada to southern Utah and they would, uh, assign a different person, each time they had a reunion they'd assign a different person to be in charge of notifying everybody. Oh, okay, that makes sense.
Nobody's out of a lot of trouble more than once. Yeah, yeah and the people who are down there, like, they'll assign one person in the Utah area, one person in the Washington area and that person can call, you know, beforehand and just make sure everyone knows, too. Uh-huh. And then they just sort of do like a little program or, you know, something like that so that everyone's sort of involved. Yeah. That's interesting. You sound like you've had a lot of experience with this, then. Oh, well, that's my husband's side and my mom, my mom's, or my family, uh, we all live in southern California so we just have to either or, give a formal invite and we're all there so, Southern California's still pretty large. Yeah well, I mean L A, Orange County area. I mean everyone's, you know mostly not farther than an hour away. I see.
Yeah, well, my experience, uh, has been limited pretty much lately to my mother's side of the family. Uh-huh. Uh, years ago there was a big dispute on my dad's side and, uh, they haven't had a reunion since then. They just show up at funerals and weddings. Oh It was pretty serious and lot of yelling and all that, Wow. but, anyway, my mother's side we had our, our first real reunion that I've ever gone to last summer and they had people come in from out of town and they took some rooms down at a Holiday Inn and, uh, they had some activity, they had a nice dinner planned and all of that stuff and people got up and talked about various parts of the family tree and, you know, a lot of that sort of thing. Since it was the first one that we'd had that, you could do that once. Now next time we have one, we'll have to think of something more creative to do. Well, you know, that's interesting because one thing that always brings to my, uh, husband's mother's side together is, uh, they talk about the genealogy of the family tree every time
and, uh, inevitably everyone is just very interested and, and they always have, you know, two or three new ones to add to the list, you know, someone's been born or someone passed away or, you know, something like that Oh. and so everyone has to update their little books or whatever. Well, have have you, do you have an interest in genealogy? Uh, I do, but not to, very much compared to my mother-in-law. Not a passion, huh. Uh, I suspect we'll do quite a bit more genealogy and I, I suspect we will do more of it. Uh, I found out some, about some of the relatives I didn't, you know, I, I didn't even know their names, some of the two or three generations back and some of the aunts and uncles Um. and, uh, there's a lot of things there you have to stop, they're really kind of fascinating. I found out my grandmother was one of a twin. Oh. And we don't even know where the twin, we have virtually no, no background on, on her on the twin. Really? Is it your, your grandma's own sibling and she,
My grandmother's, uh, sister who would be somewhere in, in West Virginia. I'm sure she's, you know, dead now, because my grandmother died in, about twenty years ago. Oh, I see. Oh so, I'm, I'm quite a bit, I'm probably a lot older than you are. Uh, Well, maybe, uh, they just moved away and then sort of lost contact. I don't know. Okay. Um, what type of magazines do you have? We take several at home. I, I take, um, SKIING MAGAZINE, and I take, uh, DISCOVER magazine, and also, uh, C D AND STEREO REVIEW and NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC, I think and BOYS LIFE Uh-huh. Oh, . Oh, good. That's a good one, I like to get Um, so I take it that you like to ski. Do you, do you, um, receive a lot of information on skiing through the SKI MAGAZINE? I presume that I do. Uh-huh.
Uh, I suppose that puts me on some mailing lists and so forth, because I do get things from ski associations and things, uh, at, during the year. Oh. Oh, uh, and do you receive discounts and things like that, do you think or, Uh, not so much that, I, uh, more likely to see those at a ski show or something, but um, made with I just enjoy reading about the resorts and where you can go and, and new equipment that's come out and so forth. Oh. Some fashions are always in there too. Oh. Uh-huh. So would this vacation you're taking, did you receive information from your skiing magazine? Probably not. Uh, we already knew we wanted to take one, and we just started looking around. I may have referred to a couple of them, but we went to the ski show and looked at all of the resort information, picked up a lot of brochures and just decided to go to Crested Butte. Oh. Oh.
We haven't been there before. Um, that sounds nice. Kind of away from the crowd is why we chose that one. Uh-huh. It's supposedly low lift lines. Oh. But I haven't skied Utah yet, but I want to. Oh, well, you need to come out I'd like to go to Sundance and Park City and some of those. Uh-huh. I understand Deer Valley is nice, too. Deer Valley, uh-huh. Yeah, they are, it's wonderful snow Well, how about you, what, what magazines do you have at home? Uh, I am currently taking DECORATIVE WOODWORKING, and, uh, COUNTRY LIVING,
and, let's see, we do have NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC, and then we have some church magazines, but I really enjoy the DECORATIVE WOODWORKING. I'm heavy into woodworking and tole painting and things like that, so the DECORATIVE WOODWORKING has just been a great, great help. Oh, okay. Does it have, uh, articles on how to do things as well as equipment that you can buy and so forth? Uh-huh. Uh-huh, they do have, uh, mostly they have, uh, the ads on the equipment, but the whole magazine is just filled with, uh, pictures and projects that you can make yourself, and then it has all of the patterns and instructions that you would need to make a wood project, and, and then how to paint it with the tole paintings, and so, it's really a fun one. I like that. Well, that's good. It's good to get use out of one. Uh-huh I'm not sure that, um, in the case of NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC, I mean, I read it, but then they just sort of gather dust for a long period of time,
Uh-huh. but then eventually there'll be a school project or something where my son will need to refer back through forty-eight back issues to find you know, France or something or whatever it is he's looking for. Uh-huh Yeah. Yes. I've, I've noticed that, too, but they have been nice to have around. Every once in a while they come in handy I used to take SMITHSONIAN too, Oh. I liked that magazine Uh-huh. but it was, I was, just found myself not ever getting around to reading it. Oh. Uh. You get so many coming in, and by the time the next round comes in I'm still not through reading the first round. Oh, that. Oh, SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN comes to our house, too, I forgot, and that's mostly my son's, Oh.
but but I do read it, too. Uh-huh. Oh, well that sounds like. And he takes GAMES MAGAZINE GAME MAGAZINE, which has puzzles and things that he likes to solve, you know, crosswords and various logic puzzles and things like that Uh-huh. Oh. Uh-huh. he likes to try that, so. He does, uh, does get to be a lot of paper though, after a while if you don't keep them weeded out, they almost take over. Uh-huh They do, they can do that. I found that they've been fun for my little girls, they're five and four years old, and they like to go through and, Oh, yeah, they're just kind of getting started now. Uh-huh. They like to cut the pictures out and paste them on, and so we've found good use for those.
Mine is a senior in high school, so he's, we're kind of at the end of that trail. Oh. You're just sort of beginning to think about first grade. Oh. Uh-huh. Yeah, it's fun. Well, I do have a boy in junior high, too, so Oh, okay, so you got a little bit of a gap there between, so we're kind of running the gamut Yeah. Okay what, do you do artistic painting? Uh, I do tole painting. Oh, you do? Uh-huh, I really love the tole painting.
Uh, I haven't done any of the oil or watercolor. I would like to learn that someday, but right now my passion is tole painting Do you do a lot of it? Uh-huh. I, I took one class about, I guess three or four years ago and I've done a little, uh, Oh. But it takes a lot of time It does, it is real time consuming and, do you sell your projects? Uh, mostly I have just given them away as gifts. Uh-huh. Uh, I've done, uh, perpetual calendars and cookie jar lids and, oh, on and on, you know, just things like that, but uh, I would eventually like to make enough to sell and quit my job Uh-huh. Where do you work at? I just work at Stop and Shop out there in, in Ogden
so, Now do you ever send any of your stuff to the boutique? No, I've wanted to do that, uh, but just haven't, just haven't mass produced enough to do that. Uh-huh. So, I have five children of my own, so it's That keeps you busy. they, they keep me busy and tole painting is just a, you know, something I do in my spare time so Uh-huh. Have you tried any of the, well, do you cut out your own projects? Yes, uh-huh, I have my own saws and so I really enjoy doing that. Huh. Do you, uh, ever spray your projects with the, I mean a base coat first or do you brush it on?
I brush it on, yeah, I haven't tried a, a spray varnish. I use just a wood sealer. Uh-huh. Yeah. I just bought a spray gun, one of those airless, uh, not airless, high volume, low pressure spray guns. Oh, uh-huh. And I do a lot of woodworking and that's what I bought it for. Do you? Oh. But I haven't used it yet. Oh, well that's that 'ud probably give you a smoother finish, wouldn't it? Yeah. Oh. Yeah. Now what type of woodworking do you do? Uh, fine furniture. Oh do you?
Yeah. That's why I brought, bought the sprayer is to finish my projects. Oh. That's my worst, worst part of my woodworking. I get so sick of making Oh, but it's hard to finish it, huh. Yeah, but spraying does put on a nicer finish. Oh, well, that is interesting. So, what kind of equipment do you have? For woodworking? Uh-huh. Uh, let me see, table saw, scroll saw, band saw, lathe, routers, and about it. Boy, it sounds like you're really into it. That is nice. Yeah, it is. Yeah,
I, I just have a scroll saw and a jig saw and I am really anxious to get a band saw and a router Yeah, the band saw is really nice. I have an Inca. I don't know if you've ever heard of those. Oh. But it's nice to have the right equipment. Yeah, that is, that makes it easier, doesn't it? Uh-huh. Well, have you sold any of your furniture or just, Uh not, mostly I do like you do, give it away as gifts. Uh-huh. But, Making my own furniture. Yeah. Oh, that's interesting.
Do you, uh, did you take classes to learn how to do that? Uh, just in junior high Uh-huh. and then I just kept on through high school and then got my own equipment, kept up with that. Oh, so yours is mostly just a hobby, too, then. Yeah. Oh. Yeah. Well, that is interesting. Oh, I would, I really would love to go take a class in woodworking and learn how to. I don't know if I necessarily want to do furniture, but mostly, uh, just do more, Like the shelves and, Uh-huh, the woodworking. For your tole painting. Uh, Yeah Yeah, so, it's fun
Good. Well I guess I'll let you go now. Well, they come on, we're supposed to talk until they come on and tell us Oh, they do? Okay, so this is my first one. You're probably a veteran at this. Yeah. Well, it has, it has been really fun. I've enjoyed this. Uh, like I say, I've made a couple of calls to Texas, and just talked to all different kinds of people Uh-huh. so I think you'll enjoy doing it. Yeah. It's fun. Sounds fun. Where do you buy your tole painting paints at around here? Uh, you know, there's a shop in Roy that I really love. Uh, and it's there by the, Copper Mill restaurant, used to be the Hayloft.
I am not well, we live in Roy , but, we is it on nineteen hundred? Uh-huh. Uh, let's see, I'm trying to think of the name. I know where fifty-six hundred south is. Uh, I don't right off. Is that Ben Franklin then ? Ben Franklin, okay. Okay, you want to start? Yeah, I might as well. Uh, one of the things I'm very concerned about the air pollution, is the, uh, this, this, the ozone layer, uh, uh, issue. Uh, I used to own a heating and air conditioning business and handled lots of different types of freons, and that, uh, rather bothers me that, uh, I was in, in effect, uh, contributing to the delinquency of the, the environment, so to speak. Uh-huh.
Yeah, that's stuff we never even thought about three years ago. Right, right, and one of the reasons they fixed up the freons eleven, twelve and thirteen, in, in, in that area was because they were inexpensive, uh, they could be made, uh, you know, inexpensive and lots of it, uh, and in that, and its properties were great, uh, with, uh, the machinery, didn't have to have lots of expensive machinery to, uh, get your heating and cooling cycles to work. Um. So. Have they stopped that practice now? Well, course there's a, a tremendous number of refrigerators and excuse me, refrigerators and freezers, both commercial and residential, uh, utilizing freon twelve, and of course, the new cars, I guess starting with nineteen ninety-three will not have freon twelve in their systems. But, uh, there's, you know, the ton of after market machines, and et cetera, et cetera. Yeah. And that's got me very, you know, highly concerned that, uh, that's going to be quite a while before we can, uh, undo this. Now, that could spawn several good industries and help, pull us out of this recession, but you got to have people that can make, you know, earn a salary to pay for this conversion. So, so I see us in a kind, somewhat of a catch twenty-two unless we, unless the banks or industry and or the government go together and, and come up with a way to, uh, have us as a part of the unemployed society be able to be gainfully employed again converting all this freon twelve stuff into the new nonpolluting, uh, compound. Oh, yeah. Because as I say, there's a, there's a
well, how many, uh, uh, families own a refrigerator, and then do, you know, that number, and then how many a, a freezer separate from and how many people, especially here in Texas, own cars and trucks with air conditioning. Uh-huh. Yeah yeah. I mean, this is, there, there are people that, that make it, have a thriving business, uh, that do nothing but heating and air conditioning on, on automobiles and trucks, and, uh, the only reason I didn't, uh, get into that more, when I was, had my little business, was because, uh, most of your, uh, air conditioning in, in, on vehicles tend to be greasy and dirty to the N-th degree Uh-huh. and I mean, so, uh, that's why I stayed in, stayed more towards, uh, uh, and that's a polluting type deal too, is the excessive, um, you know, uh, petroleum products in your engine bay and so forth, and the dirt and grit and those two mixed together with, with water and, uh, like knocking on a really make, uh, make a mess. Um, yeah, yeah, I hate to see a car going down the street, or even a truck or bus for that matter, that's putting out a lot of dark smoke, Uh-huh. and I know there's a lot of pollutants we can't even see coming out of cars, Right. but that, that particular bothers me. Well, most, most, most of the time when you see bus, uh, you know, the busses with the diesel that's, uh, those are carbon particles, and carbon dioxide and water vapor, uh, Uh-huh.
because when you, when diesel is burned it's it, you know diesel fuel is burned in a, in the diesel engine it's burned so completely, that you don't have any, uh, nitrous oxides, uh, or oxides of nitrogen, uh, to, uh, form because of, by virtue of the very combustion process of the diesel engine, because diesel oil is, uh, is not very volatile. You know, where gasoline, if you leave a little pail of gasoline out before long it's gone. Oh. Uh-huh. Yeah. Diesel is going to be around, because it doesn't evaporate easily, and it's got, well, you know, its latent heat is high, but it's slow burning at, at, uh, normal pressures. That's why your diesel engines have such high compression ratios as the, as the air is heated, you know, by virtue of the compression process to like one to nineteen or nineteen to one ratio Oh, I see. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. and so if the car sucks in, uh, fifty degrees, Well, how do you feel about trial by jury? I feel very uncomfortable with trials by juries recently. Uh, In what way? In that it seems to me that they are swayed more by emotion than, uh, by evidence that's presented. I have, uh, very little regard for the law presently practiced.
Oh, do, do you feel they are swayed more toward, are you talking about with criminal or civil suits? I was thinking primarily criminal cases. So, do you think that, I mean the the stereotypical bleeding heart juries where they feel sorry. Yes. Uh-huh. That's a concern of mine. Uh, I would feel more comfortable in many cases I think with judges. Uh, you know, doing the sentencing. Uh-huh. The other thing, the only thing that really bothers me about that is I think you know, that a judge can be I, I like the idea of juries of your peers uh, in that you, you, you get more personally more than one person making the, making a decision. Uh-huh. And second of all, you get a wide variety of background so that, Yeah, my question I guess are they really your peers? Uh-huh. I'd agree with that. Uh Uh, too often I think they are not That's definitely a problem. Uh-huh.
and, uh, when you, when you are selecting a jury and you are doing it partially if, if not entirely on the basis of which color representation you have you know that is a matter of concern to me too. Uh-huh. Uh, I think that, uh, in such cases, uh, they are not really looking for unbiased people, but rather for biased. Uh-huh. Uh, now I happen to know several judges and there is one that I would feel uncomfortable but has doing sentencing without the jury I would feel a little bit uneasy about Uh-huh. but the other two I feel, uh, would give either you know, the plaintiff or for the defendant the the full benefit of the law. Uh-huh. And I guess that's what I am concerned with. Yeah, yeah. I, guess I, I definitely agree with you, but the well, what I don't like about, uh, sentence, the jury doing the sentencing in that I think it becomes a lot less, Uh-huh. the, the same crime gets unequal sentences. This is very true. I, uh, I think there is more of an ability of you know, you know for selecting a jury, two different juries that would most of the time come up with the same idea, uh, the same idea versus you know whether he is guilty or innocent Uh-huh.
Uh-huh. but, I think, I think there would be a large variation in, in trying to gage the the severity of the crime and an appropriate punishment and have that that measure stick across the board. Yeah and you do see such uneven sentencing you know, evidence of it in the newspapers and such, I mean where, uh, it would appear the crimes were very similar Uh-huh. Uh-huh. but one individual got twenty-five years and the other one was sentenced to life. So, Uh-huh. Uh, Of course a lot of that's also the ability of, of the defendant to, uh, get a good lawyer. Isn't that the truth Uh-huh. There are times when is it, uh, oh goodness, my mind has gone blank it's, uh, Othello. You know where he says kill all the lawyers Every now and then one is tempted to see what, what. Yeah, I agree
But, I, it's taken me a long time to understand that, uh, lawyers are concerned with the law and not with justice as we think of, you know, as, as novices tend to think that, uh, attorneys care about justice. Uh-huh. Uh-huh Oh, yeah, I, I agree with it yeah. They will admit to you that they don't have the benefit of being able to you know, of, of, letting, allowing themselves to believe their clients that are guilty Uh-huh. it's more of the game plan of how do they convince the judge or jury through argument. And they are very effective too. That the Uh-huh. Uh, even, I have been involved, uh, just slightly in a case where I know the person is guilty Uh-huh. but, uh, his attorneys gotten him off. Uh-huh. Uh, the city has dropped their charges against him because their, the attorney has presented enough evidence of doubt to convince the judge. So I don't know Yeah.
Uh, this is a little bit of the subject, but one, one thing that I really dislike, uh, also that's, that's new is the, uh, is that I have heard that there are federal sentences, I, you know, actually in this modern day and age, it seems like, uh, uh, we have more and more leisure time because, uh, we have so many convenience, appliances and whatnot. We don't even have to cook dinner anymore. Yes. Yeah, really. Uh, but I, uh, I've heard, I don't know this for a fact, but I've heard that a lot of families really don't spend a great deal of time together. That the kids maybe on the average get, uh, something like thirty seconds of quality time with the parents. That's what I've heard too. Uh, It seems bizarre to me. I don't quite understand it, although I think probably the, the worst thing that's happening in the world, at least the modern world today, is television. Yeah. Not so much because, uh, it's bad per se, although there is some pretty crappy programming and I there's also some, uh, I think, uh, poorer lifestyles illustrated but simply because it dominates so much discussionary time. Right. It's so darned easy to turn the thing on. I know it. I've, I tell myself sometimes, just sit down after work,
So I refuse to have one in the house. Oh really? Yeah. Well good for you. Good for you. A lot of people, I talk to a lot of people about that and I've thought about it myself and I though about it a lot Uh-huh. But, uh, I still haven't done it yet. Well that's good. Well I'll tell you. Television sure makes child rearing easy on you. I mean the kids can be a real pest, uh, and turning the T V on is almost like magic, you know, it's like sticking, uh, an electrode into their pleasure center and you don't have to worry about them. That's true I've noticed that. But I don't think it's too good.
I don't think so either. Uh, so, you know, I don't know, I take advantage, I don't have a great deal of time to spend with the kids, but I take advantage of, um, dinner time. We always eat together and, you know, whenever you're with your kids, you want to interact with them rather than just ignore them. Do you keep your kids, uh, active in sports or anything or, Uh, I guess our big outlet is music. Uh Oh, okay. our thirteen year old son plays violin and our, nine year old daughter plays cello Okay. and, uh, when our son started playing violin, I took up violin and when our daughter started playing cello, I took up cello. So there's plenty of, plenty of interactive time in, uh, practicing. Although neither kid likes to practice. I guess that's not a big surprise. No. Not for kids
But I I imagine with infants you are, most of your time is sort of spent taking care of them rather than interacting with them. Although, Yeah. Well I, I try and read to them and I take them to the park and stuff Oh, you know, reading is so good. I, uh, I took great pleasure in reading to my kids when they were little and I still try to read to them, although our son is not liking that anymore. Yeah. Well, they get to that stage. Uh, but I read, you know there's this DOCTOR SEUSS sleep book. Have you ever seen that yet? Sleep book, no. Yeah, it's called a sleep book and, uh, you ought to get it. I tell you I read that book to my kids so many times I almost have the thing memorized. Uh, We've got quite a few of DOCTOR SEUSS' books.
Yeah. Well, I think, I think his sleep book is my favorite. Oh, really? Uh-huh. Well, yeah I like to, I like to do it and they enjoy reading. I've, actually I never read a lot growing up and I never read until a few years ago I just started picking up books and so I've found that, you know, it's really important to me to get to read. To, I like to get away in a book, you know? Uh-huh, uh-huh. And so I've put a lot more emphasis on that, on my kids to try and, Uh-huh. So how much time do you think you spend with your kids on the average per each day? Oh, I probably spend an hour or two. Oh that's great. My wife works at night,
so she does, uh, Tupperware, so she's gone a lot at nights and so I spend a lot of time with them Oh, I see. how old are your kids again? They're two and one. Two and one. Uh-huh. Yeah, so you have your hands full with them, that's for sure Yeah I , uh, try to stay away from cars as much as possible in terms of repair. Actually, uh, that is really a sore spot with me. I, I think perhaps the automotive industry is improving but, uh, like ten years ago, uh, reliability of automobiles, at least U S automobiles was pretty dismal and not only that, but the, uh, repair capability of, uh, service departments and dealerships was equally dismal Uh-huh. and, uh, it seemed that the only way I could reliably take care of my car was to repair it myself which is not my cup of tea. Yeah.
But, uh, I, So do you have a car? Pardon? Do you have a car? Well, at that time, actually, I had a Volkswagen Rabbit Uh-huh. and, uh, it was, it was a real lemon. Uh, subsequently I got a, uh, Buick Century and it wasn't as bad. Uh-huh. But, uh, last year I bought a Honda Accord and I take it in once every seventy-five hundred miles for its periodic maintenance and that is it. And it's wonderful. Yeah. We used to have a Honda Accord and they're good. They're really good cars. Every time I get taken to an auto repair place, you know, every time I go, I get taken. Bad you know.
Huh. Woman goes in and they go all right, we got a sucker. Let's see how much money we can get out of her, you know Huh. That's what happens every time. Huh. Uh, so, So, what do you have? I have a Pontiac Six Thousand. All the more reason to, uh, have a, a Honda. Yeah. But our Honda just got old and just wore out. It was, let's see, eleven years old and it just, just out of it so you bought a Pontiac? huh-uh. My uh, ex-husband's, this is, just happened a couple of weeks ago. He's my ex-husband
but just a few months ago when he was my husband, uh, his father gave us this car and everything is wrong with it. I mean, the power steering fluid leaks, the oil leaks, the brake fluid leaks, you know, Now how old is the car? Uh, eighty-seven. Huh. And he just doesn't take care of things and but I was awarded the car so. There is a man in my church that is a mechanic and I can trust him. So he is trying to get, you know, things fixed on it. Huh. But it's just, you know, leak, leak, leak everywhere. But, uh, you know, I hate to go into a, a repair place because they'll tell me something is wrong with it and it's not, you know, and charge me twice as much. The last time I took it into a repair shop, the man told me I needed a master cylinder. So I said okay. And he charged me a hundred and thirty something dollars and then, uh, about a month later, a man was looking at my car
and he asked me, you know, not a man, not a repair man, but just a friend and I was telling him that I just a new master cylinder put on and he looked at and he said that's not a new master cylinder Huh. and I didn't even know what one was. And, uh, he showed it to me and it was old, rusty, just awful. It was no more new than nothing. So apparently it was the same one that was on there. Uh, more than likely. Apparently just, uh, uh, probably filled the, the brake fluid up and that was it. That was it, probably. It was I was so irritated. And that's happened to me more than once or twice. just, just about every time I've went in somewhere. So what's the solution to that? I guess find a reputable service, And, and you can hardly find one, you know.
Huh. The guy that's doing most of my, my car now, uh, goes to my church and that's the only reason, you know, I go to him because I know him Uh-huh. and I know he will tell me the truth. Because he doesn't even charge me for, for doing it so he's not going to, you know, take me. Right. I just pay for the parts and he does it so. Well that's wonderful. Yeah. You're lucky. Yeah, I am, so, I don't know. I don't know what the solution to that is because the place where you buy your car, they're usually the worst one of all. We took our Honda to the Honda dealership and they ended up telling us we needed a brand new engine for our car. Oh, really?
Yeah. And so, idiots as we were, neither one of us knew much about cars, we, you know, they told us we just had to have one and we bought one. We didn't no more need no new engine, give me break, you know. Huh. So it was, it was not good and, uh Uh, I think, uh, actually I'm fairly pleased with the benefits that we have at the, uh, working for a large corporation. And, for me, there's absolutely no question what's the most important benefit I think it's health care. Right. It's what, I think everybody would say that. Oh, and if you try to get it outside of your corporation, you're going to pay an arm and a leg. Right. Belonging to a group is the, belonging to a health group is probably the most important protection you can have after you, Right. Uh, the, uh, sometimes I think it's more important than salary.
Uh, do you also get dental? Yes. And, uh, I don't know if I would rank that second but, uh, since I have three boys, uh, it, it can turn out to be important. Yeah, you know Oh, I know. in a, in a given year, dental dental expenses can really kill you. Now my husband is with, uh, Northwest Airlines and he gets, uh, you know, the full health and dental and, uh, we have four children and what you pay just to have teeth cleaned is outrageous. Right. And I don't know how people that don't have it can afford it. Right. It's, uh, Or maybe they don't Right, uh, and then, uh, uh, if the cleaning doesn't get you, the orthodony will. That's right
That's right Uh, I guess that would be up there. Uh, I'm not sure if I would rank, uh, how I would rank that next to, say compared to retirement or, uh, uh, uh, pretax savings was another thing that I think is a a great, a great benefit . Uh-huh. Right. And I, I think it's really something that the, uh, the government ought to encourage more because, uh, there are all these complaints about how we're not a saving country and where the average savings rate is something like four percent in this country and fifteen percent in, uh, Germany and Japan. Uh , Right. Well, it's a lot easier to, to save it when you don't get your hands on it first Right. When you have the, when you have the, uh, the economy to scale and everything that a large corporation has, and you can, uh, offer some incentive and if the government goes along by not taxing it when you put it aside you can really build up, uh, the savings and the, that you wouldn't otherwise do Right. and , Uh, what about, what about, uh, lesser, uh, benefits perhaps for you but for, for the women in the, in the corporation. For example, uh, oh, Leave? Yeah. Do they even, do they have father leaves or anything like that? You know, I, I don't think so yet.
They may have, uh, just plain parental leave, which either one can take. Uh-huh. Uh, I, their, uh, I know their maternity leave is on the order of six weeks which I think is too short. Uh Oh, I do too. uh, uh, I really think that we need to get into the mold where we talk about years rather than months or weeks. Oh, I think, I think it's just a crying shame, uh, for a mother to have to go back to work at six weeks. Right, and, uh, She isn't recovered And, uh the infant needs her desperately, at that point and time. There , There ought to be, uh, uh, some compromise that could, where, uh, where the person would be guaranteed a, uh, career type position but not necessarily a continuation of exactly the same position uh, in exchange for a longer period of time. Uh-huh. Right, I agree. It's, uh, it's so important to families then and, uh, and yet anybody who's gotten far enough to get a good salary is really reluctant to give that up. Oh, sure. Uh, Especially in this day and age.
That, You don't want to start over again anywhere. Yeah, you're right. I think you've put your finger on the one benefit that I, that I would most like to see, uh, changed Uh, the, uh, parental leave. Well, I think they're at, they're they've come a long way. Uh, at least some companies. Some of them, uh, my girlfriend, in particular, that works for a, a rental car agency Right. and, uh, as manager and, uh, they have a very, very poor leave policy and, uh, I just don't know how, how women do it. Particularly, single parents who don't have the support at the other end. Uh, Right They do it by shortchanging their kids. There's no other way. I mean uh, unless they're part of some extended family which is unlikely. Uh That's right. That's exactly right. Right. people moving as much And, uh, they just, it's just a terrible choice, you shouldn't have to make it. Uh-huh.
Uh you're right. And, uh One of the benefits we get, of course, is travel Oh, right. Boy, would I like to have that. It's wonderful Yeah. The only trouble is that you can afford to go anywhere but you can't afford to stay once you get there Oh, listen I have friends in a lot of different cities. If you just fly me there, I'll take care of that That's right. You have to have an awful lot of fun just, just getting there, is, has to be half the fun. Right. So and, uh, I guess the, And you say you have some strong feelings about, uh, the issue? Uh, yes
I do as far as, uh, as far as, uh, as far as immigration as a whole goes. Uh-huh. I think that, uh, we simply must start accepting everybody in the world. Uh-huh. Uh, I, there just is not going to be room for all of us. We don't have jobs now. I, I think, uh, I think when we come to a time of recession that it's particularly important that we shut our doors at that time. Uh, I hope you're one of the employed right now. Uh-huh. I am one of the unemployed right now. I was a systems analysis and programmer for an oil company and, uh, I applied for one set of jobs with a company here in Dallas that they had two hundred openings but they had two thousand applications. Yeah. And I know that there are a lot of foreigners, uh, here, you know, doing my line of work. Uh-huh. And, of course, I'm not perfectly happy about not having a job. Right. So, how do you feel?
Well, I'm a little bit ambivalent. The problem with, uh, and I think one of the problems with immigration policy is like any other political problem is that people are not willing to discuss it, uh, in, in terms of what, uh, really is driving it. They're not willing to tell the truth. The same way with, uh, issues of, uh, race and things like that I mean right now, uh, I believe there are two policies that, uh, that the government uses to modulate immigration. Three actually. One is at the high end, uh, they always want to be able to, uh, do some brain draining. They always like to be able to attract the, uh, Einsteins or the Professor Chou or, you know. Right They'd like to be able to get the top people in any field and so they can almost always find room for someone like that. At the bottom end, they, uh, are always willing to, uh, let in cheap labor if it lowers the cost of doing business in some particular area and has strong support from the, powerful people in that area. Those are two things that I think are going on. Although they, I, I don't think the politicians would tell you that. Okay and I think you're right in both cases. And then the, third thing is, uh, the political aspect of, uh, uh, letting steam come out from under the lid in Mexico They cannot close off the Mexican border. Not because it's physically impossible but because the explosion that would take place in Mexico would be, uh, uh, would spill over to this country so they keep allowing, uh, the pressure cooker to let off steam. And I think probably it's pretty important right there. How do you feel about Haitian immigration?
Uh, that's one of the few things I guess I found myself in agreement with Pat Buchanan I think they're a very difficult group to integrate into, uh, society. They're very difficult, uh, group to find jobs and, uh, and, uh, places for. And so, uh, uh, I don't deny that we may have been involved in causing the problem that, uh, in that they're pretty miserable where they are. But I'm not to sympathetic about, uh, letting large numbers of Haitians in. Actually, actually I feel that if we accepted these people that we would eventually have almost the total population here. Yeah. And it would have nothing to do with political situations. It would have to do with poverty. Right. But if you let them, yeah. If you let them in a million at a time, it wouldn't make that, you know, it wouldn't make that big a bulge in the population. But politically and economically. Oh, my gosh. Have you been, have you been to southern Florida? Yeah, well I know about it. Uh, I mean it's, it is now with Haitians the way it was with Cubans, uh, twenty years ago. Well, I mean and the two of them together. I mean we can, it's just as well you know, it's hardly America anymore.
On the other hand, you know, the ironic thing about this is that there's nobody more full of the entrepreneurial American spirit than our first generation immigrant So there's, uh, there's a lot to be said for having a steady stream of people who know how it is someplace else coming in. But there's some differences in the immigrants, that, that we're getting now. Well I particularly have a problem with the illegal immigration. Right. Sure. I think, probably your, a great deal of what you say is true about the legals. Right. But, uh, the majority of the illegal immigration we're getting now, they do not come here to blend into America. Uh, they, they don't bother to learn our language and, uh, first of all, they, I'm sorry, this, I really feel strongly about this. Uh-huh. We send a lot of money to Mexico. Uh-huh. Why don't you start? Oh, I don't know. I, uh, I refinished a couple of old, uh, dressers that were handed down. You know, nice it's nice tongue and groove, uh, uh, construction. Uh, that's been, I've been pretty successful with that.
Things you already owned or things that you've picked up just to do that? What? Are they things you already owned or you pick them up just to do that refinishing? No, I've done some other things too. Uh, you know. Yeah. I've done both Yeah. Uh, uh, my wife has picked up a couple of things saying, uh, boy if we could refinish that, that would be a beautiful piece of furniture and, uh, we've done it a couple of times. I guess that we've been fairly successful with those. Oh, yeah. That's, uh, that's a kind of low risk sort of project, isn't it I guess. Yeah. That's a good way to get started. Uh, I have a, a, uh, really nice desk. A nicer desk than I could afford. Which I got because my sister who worked in a hospital, uh liberated it after a fire Uh-huh and, uh, we stripped it all the way down and refinished it and it turned out to be really nice, uh, a nice desk. Maple top I think or or something of that sort. Uh-huh
Uh-huh Yeah. I, I, uh, put together a, a, up rolltop desk from scratch. Oh, really? You know, a kit. Oh. I'm jealous. Yeah. Still had to cut it and everything, but it was fun. Uh-huh. Yeah I, I do do things, uh, that might be too crude to be called woodworking. I've built my own deck and, uh things like that. Uh-huh. Yeah. I, I've done the same. You know, like the trim around the house you know the baseboards and things like that. And, uh I definitely have begun to accumulate tools too. My, I, uh I picked up a bunch of Craftsman tools from the forties that my wife's father owned when he was alive Uh-huh. and so I do have a band saw and a router and, uh, things like that out in the garage.
But I can't say I use them very often Um. Yeah , I'm looking at trying to get a router right now. They're handy, uh, they they come in handy at the most unusual times. Putting doors in is the time when I'm, uh, I bought myself a, uh, template for making mortices and doors and that's a whole lot easier than doing it with a chisel I'll bet. But I've, also, I've also used them for building drawers where you, uh, for rabbeting and, uh, because, uh, rabbeting on my table, on my, uh, radial arm saw is a little bit uncertain Uh-huh. So, I got one for Christmas a few years ago and used it quite a bit for the first eight months I had it and now I use it twice a year maybe Yeah. My my brother's used it a lot for making drawers. I don't know, The big, what, what's your opinion of what a good router is like? You know I, Uh, I guess it, Because he was tell me like the ones that you dial in aren't all that great.
They've plastic parts and stuff. The ones that what? That you dial in on the side. Uh, I have never even I have never even looked at one closely. Uh, the, the little use that I've gotten from my router, I would say, uh, I would spend my money on the bits Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh, I have a, I'd guess you'd call a medium quality Craftsman router and the, uh, How strong is it? It's strong enough for any job where you don't try to take more than say three-eighths of an inch at a time. But the problem is that the, uh, as with any, any time you buy a, a tool with a, a, as a, as a package the bits that they give you are low end. Don't they, Uh-huh. Uh-huh. So the price of a good set of, uh, carbide steel, uh, bits is probably, uh, I mean, a, a good set of bits is probably going to run you a hundred dollars and, uh, uh, if you're going to use for a lifetime I suppose it's worth it. Because uh, I imagine if I go and sharpen them myself, uh, they won't last
And I've never had the bits sharpened So. That's a thing to consider is to, Uh-huh. They, they really get hot don't they? Yeah. And they, they dull after awhile. Especially, I did some cabinets in, uh, ash and oak Uh-huh. and, uh, that, that wears a bit down. We remodeled and saved a bunch of really nice ash cabinets, uh which had been in the original, remodeling of our kitchen. Uh-huh. Right. And I saved them and built an oven cabinet out of one and another cabinet out of another by using the faces and so forth And, uh, routing hardwood will, uh, take the edge off a cheap bit pretty fast So. Yeah. I've cut some one by eight oak before Boy was that fun. Right. That's, uh,
Big solid pieces of oak are just tough. And then you take the blade to the to get sharpened, right Well, that was, you know, with a, with a circular saw. Uh-huh. Like, oh my gosh. Right. Is this going to be fun Yeah Well I've used mine on treated wood and now all my blades need sharpening. Because, uh, treated wood will also chew them up. Yeah. Treated wood can really make you sick too. Okay, so, um, yes we do keep, uh, well we started out keeping a budget about two years, ago, we have a computer, here at the house, Uh-huh. and I made a Lotus spreadsheet and went through the year using all of our, our checkbook to figure out what we spent each time and whether we were over or under for each month and then basically since then what I've done is, is keep track of it through the checkbook
so that based on whatever we've got coming in, the check coming in, then how much I'm spending each half of the month and then trying to also because our house payment is once a month, that's our, our biggest, uh, expense so I take half of that amount out of my checkbook each, with each paycheck, even thought it's really still there, so that I can keep, uh, uh, good balance, a running total, yeah through the month, Uh-huh. Uh-huh. A running total. Yeah. What do you all do? Uh, we've, we've, uh, taken how much we have, you know, write down how much we have coming in each month and then, uh, we've, at the beginning of the year we sat down and determined how much we could spend. We sat made up different accounts like, you know, we've set a budget for each, you know, household expenses, or food, and clothing and entertainment and then our, our own fun money and just stuff like that and then we write down each, each time we spend something, we write down in a book and at the end of the month we tally it up to see how close we, you know we, we try to stay within a certain budget, so. Is it, is it hard to keep track of it or does it work out pretty well?
Um, it takes some, it takes some dedication to do it, but it, it works out real well, so. And, and you're staying within your budget and everything is working pretty good. Uh-huh. Yeah, yeah, I stay I have to stay within it, so I, you know, and then we have that, you know, if you can't stay, if something comes up and you can't stay within it then we have, uh, you know, a budget for, you know, like we call our slush fund or something and an unexpected comes up, then you're not, you know, you don't feel it so strapped. You don't have to go out and borrow it somewhere and do that. Right, yeah, because we don't, you know, we don't charge anything that we can't pay off by the end of the month. That's a good choice, we've been trying, we're trying to, uh, do that this year. We've budgeted the money that we used to spend, we were spending on a CODA account with T I and then money we were also buying stock with for that year, we've taken that this year, and said we're going to pay off all of our credit cards
to someone else in the You've got paper under your table. and, uh, we have, uh, another loan with the bank, Uh-huh. Uh-huh. and so we hope by the end of this year, that by doing that we'll be free, and clear. To be out of that. Free. Yeah, the only thing we have, it to pay off is our, is a automobile loan and our house payment, and that's the only thing we ever, That's good to be in that kind of shape. We try to stay out of debt What are you all trying to do long term. Huh. Oh it's long term. We just, he you know, his retirement plan and then to CODA and stuff like that, that's all we, and you know, we just have our life insurance for right now. Uh-huh. So, we don't have any long term, you know, in stocks, or anything like that right now, so.
Yeah, mostly what we're doing, we've worked, we've done the, uh, CODA account with T I where they, we put in so much a month, and then they, or so much a pay check and then they match it. Yeah, that's what we're doing. So that's, that's worked out pretty good and then, I used to work for T I and I have, when I retired from there, or left, I took the money I that I had in mine and put it in an I R A and we had an out, we had an existing I R A so we have, both of us have some money in an I R A that we're also trying to figure, to, put it, we're putting it in C D's right now, Uh-huh. and then we're also looking at it in possibly getting a mutual fund. Yeah, when ever we get enough saved we stick it in a C D for a while and, then, uh, you know and then when, if we need it we wait until it, it's expired and then so, Yeah. The other thing that we've done, that, that was really nice to see, we had one of the financial companies, um,
uh, John Hancock company came out and their agent did a long term analysis based on salary and, uh, what we were what, what our, uh, goals were on a long term budget in terms of retirement, kids college, paying off the house, buying a different house, um, special thing, buying land and building our own house Uh-huh. and they did an analysis for us based on what we were putting in and the time frame that we wanted to look at, and then gave us a good idea back, you know, some good information back on whether or not we were going to achieve those goals, and, or not, and what we needed to do so that we could achieve them and the money we could put in at what time. Uh-huh. or not, yeah. Uh-huh. That sounds interesting, we've never done we have, you know, just our, our life insurance guy has come out, you know, and he's set up, uh, you know, determined how much we need to, you know, we need if something were to happen. Yeah, that, that's the other financial thing I guess that we've done is with our life insurance is, since I'm at home now is, is figuring out, uh, what we would need if something happened to my husband, or what he would need if something happened to me, that's a, a big thing to think about. Right, yeah, you know, if, I would sell the, you know, if, he, something would happen to him, I wouldn't stay in Texas,
I would, uh, sell the house and move back home, you know, to my home town, and, and, uh, I wouldn't stay here in Texas, so you know, I don't know what he would do. Okay, I guess that's most of my, um, financial plans right now. Yeah mine too. Is, is there anything you'd like to add? No, that's about all for mine. Well it's been nice talking to you. Nice talking to you too. Bye, bye Bye, bye. How do you usually keep up with current events? Normally I listen to C N N or HEADLINE NEWS about an, hour a day, and then I supplement that with, uh, radio news from my car radio and from a news magazine once a week, and a newspaper if I have time. Do you, Yeah, I don't usually have time to read the newspaper everyday,
so I try to listen to the radio in the morning and, and try to catch one of the morning talk shows, and then I usually end up flipping through C N N and HEADLINE NEWS during the evening. I always try to read the Sunday paper just because it usually gives a summary of the, the week's hot events. So, I try to, I try to catch that, if nothing else. That's true, and, and how do you rate the, uh, are you pleased with the news coverage that you're receiving? For, for local news I think we do real well where it's, we live in a kind of small town, but I think we get excellent local coverage, um , and I like the national news that we see, we, we watch N B C and I think they do a real good job. So, I'm, I've been real pleased with the quality of the news we get, how about you? On the whole, I'm pleased when I have an opportunity to hear just the facts. I would much prefer that they keep their analysis to themselves. Um, since I don't necessarily agree with it or it tends to be extraordinarily trite. Right. Uh, I think I'm fed up with trite. There seems to be more and more of it,
and I understand the void that, uh, comes naturally with both radio presentations and television presentations and as expensive as they are to produce, they certainly don't want any dead airspace. Uh-huh. Yeah, but I think there's enough news out there that they could pass on more factual information to us, and like you said, save the commentaries because I'm going to listen to the, the news and draw my own opinions. I don't really need their help to do that. I, I, we're certainly in agreement there. I don't think radio is as bad to do that as T V is. Radio seems to have a full platter or full plate of different things that they need to get done. They're, maybe they're a little more efficient, or have more to do over that same time frame. Uh-huh. Right. I don't know which that answer is. Uh, I think the, my greatest complaint about news programs is programs like SIXTY MINUTES. Do you watch that? I used to, but I don't anymore, maybe once or twice a year. Well, I used to watch SIXTY MINUTES until they did two programs, uh , that I knew both the people and the incidences, Uh-huh.
and I knew that they had presented an extremely slanted viewpoint, that was, in my estimate, nowhere near truth but was much better for ratings. Really? Yes. And it, ever since that time I just don't watch. Uh, so, I guess we have the, the same reaction whether we came about it from the same place or not. Yeah. Well, I had heard a couple of people, you know, that I had talked to about certain programs say that, you know, they had read other things besides what SIXTY MINUTES presented and that they didn't present it nearly the same way as the, you know, news articles or whatever they had, they had already been familiar with. So, I started questioning just how, how bias they really were, so. I don't know I don't know how old you are, but it seems to me like the last, uh, newscaster that presented news in just the nice simple factual way that I wanted to hear was Walter Cronkite. Huh. So, I don't, I don't know if you're familiar with him or not. No, not really, you know, in the last few years just his kind of informal segments I've seen but I never got to see his actual nightly news. I liked, I, I did grow up with David Brinkley. Uh, Well, Brinkley was sort of trying to be in the mold, of Cronkite
Uh-huh. and he did a, a pretty good job. THE HUNTLEY, BRINKLEY REPORT was quite excellent, over the years. Yeah, we, we used to watch, um, him and I guess, John Chancellor. And I always liked David Brinkley and and I used to enjoy John Chancellor's style of reporting, but on the nightly news, now, he goes into his commentary and that's where I get, get into the problem with, with him. I frequently disagree with his commentaries, so. Well, once they've reported the facts, all they can offer is an opinion anymore. Right. What did you think of the news coverage of the war? Well, I almost felt like it was too much. Indeed, I found myself restricting my viewing to a couple of hours a day, one in the morning and one in the evening. Uh-huh. Uh, I spent a number of years in the service as an intelligence analyst, Really? and I don't need their fill-ins, you know
Did that help you understand a lot what was going on your, your prior experience with the military did, Yes, but I, I think it helps me everyday in trying to review the state that the world is in and try to guess where we're going. I wondered if it would help you sometimes fill-in the gaps or recognize discrepancies that other people, people like myself might not pick up on. Well, I, I think, uh, my background is probably what absolutely turned me off with SIXTY MINUTES. Okay. What weekly, um, magazine do you look at, is it, I like U S NEWS and WORLD REPORT. At one time or another I've taken them all for a year. Uh-huh. I believe in giving anything a chance. Sure. Uh, but I keep coming back to that one, so, I, that's kind of my favorite. Does that give a pretty good overview of everything or like, does it give, um, I guess, little encapsulated reports and, and then a few big stories? It's primarily, um, a few big stories and then lots of high-level reports. Yeah. Uh, here's what went on in Asia over the past week,
and there's maybe a page of that, little brief paragraphs, unless that was one of their, the focus of their main stories. That sounds good if you were short on time, you could get a summary real quick. Uh, it too is one those in the interest of efficiency we all have to find ways, and I do most of my reading in the bathroom. Right. Um, and it's one of those that I can read either an article or a couple of pages of those brief excerpts in the time frame that I'm going to spend in there. Right. And it just seems to fit nicely, so that I can get it read in about three days. Well, we're working on a NEWSWEEK, uh, for the last couple of months we got, you know, an introductory subscription, so, we decided to try it because prior to that all we got were things like GLAMOUR or SPORTS ILLUSTRATED. So, we decided to try to bring one in that was a little bit better for us, so to speak. Well, to broaden your horizons, make you think about different things anyway. It can't hurt, Well, anytime that we stop and think it can't hurt. No. I, I even, I enjoy reading T NEWS, I try to catch it because it's another example, they just, they just show you the words and the facts
and they, they don't offer any commentary, and it gives me a quick chance to, to be caught up during the day. Because, you know, we don't listen to the radio at work at all. So, I don't like to go the whole day without hearing anything. Oh, I'm with you, I have to check T NEWS every, every day. It's my noontime dose of facts. Yeah, and the other thing we have that I like to check sometimes is, um, TALKING FINGERS, do you have that? No. You have different telephone numbers that you can dial, and then you dial in an access code and it will, depending on what topic you called in to hear about whether it was the news or the weather or a soap opera update, it will give you, um, updated information. So, that can give you, you know, current news updates, current weather updates, things like that and it's, it's offered through the local phone company free of charge. So, that's, an interesting alternative occasionally that I like to use. Huh. Well, it does sound very interesting, It, It really is, yeah, it really is nice, I mean, because it gives you a wide variety of things you can call and talk, and find out about. maybe our phone company out here will get around to, offering something like that.
So, that is something you might keep your eyes open for, I think it's, it's catching on throughout the country Well, how do you feel about it? Well, uh, I don't have any strong convictions about it, that's for sure. Um, I know I haven't done any Peace Corps service, and I don't know anybody in my immediate family that has, or, you know, has ever even thought about it. Do you know, uh, do you know anybody that's been it? No, the, the only people I know that have done anything remotely like that are people that have gone to be missionaries, and that's only because I went to Baylor, and a lot of students from Baylor go and, and serve as missionaries during the summer. But I think, I think that's a terrible idea. That's like forcing someone to donate to a charity. Yeah. I mean, and it's nice to, to try to teach young people some, some, uh, uh, civil, uh, consciousness, but forcing them to, to donate basically their time and efforts, Yeah, it's definitely up to the person, uh, so, I'd have to say that, uh, it, you know, the people who do it, well, some feel it's rewarding. I don't know, you know,
but, uh I don't know how we got the subject, . You have to, I don't either. I have nothing to say about this. I don't either. I was, I almost hung up, because I thought, well, gosh, I don't, I don't really have an opinion except for no, I think that's dumb. Uh-huh. But, uh, Well, how long you been in San Antonio? I've been here for, um, just almost, well, no, almost four years. Um, okay. And I lived with Dana in school. Oh, okay. That's how we know each other. And, uh, you, you were just up there then, huh. Uh-huh, last weekend. We went to Six Flags Saturday. Oh, okay. Had a good old time.
Well, that's good. Well, back to the topic at hand. What other types of community service would they be talking about. I mean, the, the recording mentioned the Peace Corps. Well, it sounded like, I mean, this is like major long term commitment, like a year or six months, Yeah. or, so you're looking at the Peace Corps or sabbatical maybe, or, you know, I don't know, I mean, but, uh, I mean, I'm all for donating my time to worthy causes, like I do some volunteer work here and there, and every once in a while I'll do, uh, a, uh, local Big Brother Big Sister thing. Uh-huh. Or I'll go, you know, do a . But that, that time is minuscule compared to what, what, they were referring to. Yeah. Yeah, I couldn't possibly commit a year or two of my life to, to go do something. Yeah, yeah,
they couldn't cover my hourly rate I couldn't afford it. No kidding. But, uh, I have this thing against bugs, too. And seems to me like the Peace Corps, they send you someplace that there's a lot of bugs . Yeah, Africa. Yeah, have to live in a shack with no air conditioning and no medicine and no anything. I'd probably catch a terrible disease and die. Yeah, well. I doubt that, but, you know how it is . I, I mean, it would, it would have to be tough going somewhere you don't know the culture, usually, I guess. Yeah. I think that maybe that's why some people do it is, uh, to see the other cultures or, you know and some of that. Uh-huh. But, uh, to do that, I don't know,
I'd have to be, I don't know. Oh, I don't know either. Growing up, all I knew was you go to high school, you, you know, you work, you go to college, you get out of college, and you get a good job and you work. And, and none of this, you go spend two years in the Peace Corps to to broaden your horizons. Uh-huh. Well, you know, uh, I know American Express, I'm I'm working at American Express now, and they, after a certain amount of years of service, these employees can take off like six months or something, for some type of sabbatical or some, you know, some, something like that. Uh-huh. And they're allowed to take that time off and then come back where they left off. Oh. So, it is something that I think, uh, you know, even the larger organizations will support. Uh, it's, it's really for the community to give, you know, to, to give back to the community type of thing. I don't know, it's for, I think, at the same it's for some people to, you know, help them grow in other areas, Kind of like joining the military. Well, I mean, in that respect a lot of people join the military to, to grow up and to decide what they want to do, Yeah, and the Peace Corps or something like that is probably useful as, as that kind of a time.
Yeah, maybe a little bit in that perspective, but, uh, and a lot of people have gone in the military, I mean, you know, when they're in the college. Sometimes it's to help support college, you know, the money. Uh-huh. Uh, others, people don't know what they want to do. But as far as, uh, you know, the Peace Corps. I guess, I suppose there's a few people that have done it at that point in their lives. But I think a lot of it's, you know, when people get older, they'll do something like that. I'd probably have a different perspective if I actually knew someone that had gone into the Peace Corps. Yeah. But I don't. I, I, I don't. and none of my, Didn't mean to cut you off there. Oh, that's okay. and none of my really close friends in college went off to be missionaries or anything. So I don't really know anyone first hand that's, that's committed a chunk of their life to do service work. I, Everybody I know has been, well, I'm going to go get a good job and make some money and buy a nice car.
So. Yeah, or, or try to make a living. Yeah. But, uh, yeah, I, I have no, I don't know anybody that's done that either. So, I, I, it's interesting we got this topic because I, I, I don't know what I marked off to get this, but. I certainly didn't mark off anything to get this one. I, I can't imagine, and the switchboard's been down for several days, and the last time I called it before it went down, I had this topic, and I didn't feel like talking about it, so I hung up, and I guess they, they keep you on the same topic until you actually talk to somebody about it. So you had the same one, huh. Yeah. Oh, well. Well, you'll, you'll get it over with here I know.
How many times have you talked? Oh, probably five or six. Yeah. Not a whole lot. Oh, I've done maybe four or five. Yeah. Did Dana sign you up for this? Well, she just sent me the information out. I, I got a hold of it, you know, I just sent it back in, and. Yeah, that's, she stuck my name on some list, so they mailed me the information that I filled out . What other topics have you had? Um, I've talked about camping with someone. I've talked about the weather. Great, great.
That one was interesting because I talked to a man in, in Washington, D C, and it was hot here, and it was snowing there. So that was pretty interesting. Uh-huh. And I talked to someone about the, uh, the, uh, education system. I forget exactly what the focus was on that one. But that was fairly interesting. And I talked to somebody about credit card usage. Yeah. And I talked to this person who I gathered from speaking to her, that, that she and her family just didn't have much, and they didn't have much credit available to them. Uh-huh. And so she basically didn't use credit cards and didn't know very much about them and how they work, and, and how you can use them to your advantage, and, and how, you know, you, you can do certain things with them. Huh. Yeah, I always, I use everything with my Visa, and I pay it all off. Yeah. So that's a good deal for me.
I get free money for thirty days. Yeah. That's the way I use them, uh Yeah. I try, I try to make sure I don't get in debt. So. Yeah, well that's always a good plan. I can't think of anything else that I've talked about. All that most of the ones on the list, I checked off stuff like football and, and stuff that I can, I, I would enjoy talking about and I haven't gotten a one of them yet when I've called. I had, uh, let's see, I've had fishing, and, uh, I can't remember, me and, I think me and Dana had football. Yeah, we did. Oh, how funny. Yeah. So we talked about the Cowboys a little bit.
And, I'm out here in Phoenix, so we talked about Cardinals. Uh-huh. And, so, so that one was all right. And then what else did I have? I think I had some other, uh, like staying in shape or working out. This other guy, I got this guy from New York, so. I had to talk to someone about hobbies, and the switchboard called me, so I was caught a little off guard, and I couldn't think of anything at all. So I started making stuff up. I told this woman that my hobby was gardening, and I can't even I can't even grow an ivy. And you've probably never gardened in your life . My grandfather gave me a plant once, that told, and he told me when he gave it to me that it was impossible to kill, you could freeze it, you could, you could dry it out,
no matter what, you couldn't kill it. Well, I killed it pretty quick. Yeah, I don't have too much of a green thumb either. So. I do have one plant here, it's been hanging out for a while, but I think it's one of the easiest plants. I can't, I don't know the name of it, but I'm not too much into ... Where do you live? Uh, in the Houston area. Uh-huh. Well, I used to. I lived there for a long time. But I'm now in Palo Alto, California which is, I think, the recycling capital of the world. Oh, that's great. So, we have many recycling activities and I'm, and in full, uh, support of all of them. Oh, we are too.
Our community is, uh, just starting to get organized about it. They just opened up a recycling center where we go and donate our, our things and dump them off ourselves. Uh-huh. And, uh, it, Well, that's something but it, it seems to me that we've gotten a whole lot better, um, cooperation out here, uh, by setting it up so that we pay just a little bit extra, uh, actually I don't think we pay very much extra at all too, but the, uh, garbage men, come by, uh, on your regular garbage day and pick up the recycling out at the curb. Uh-huh. I think that's great. There's a few places in Houston where they're trying that out. I don't know if it's, the, if they've done it citywide yet or not where they have the color coded, uh, bags and, uh, bins. Yeah, we have burlap sacks, Oh. and they give us one for aluminum and, uh, steel, one for metals, and one for glass, Uh-huh. and then you can either bundle your newspapers or put them in grocery bags. So, we have, we leave three little piles, that they need out on the curb every Thursday and the garbage men come by and, uh, collect them and leave us new bags when ours get old and ratty or leave the ones if they're still in good shape.
Oh, that's great. And, the, it really pays for itself because, oh, then the city, gets the money from the recycling. Uh-huh. Yeah, we're, we're all for it. Our, um, we've got several bins in our, on, in our garage where we, uh, you know, sort things out and, and take it to, to the appropriate places. Yeah, the one thing I wish we could recycle is magazines. But they claim that because of the way they're bound they, uh, it's too expensive to recycle them. At my office, we have two big cardboard boxes in the library where everybody goes to pick up their mail, Yes. and they're, uh, one's for white paper and one's for colored paper so anything like manuscripts or computer paper or things like that goes in those boxes, Uh-huh. but we get tons of catalogs and things like that and magazines, and there's no way to get rid of them. It just seems like such a waste.
Oh, it does. It does. But I'm sure that they can, uh, find some sort of, uh, use for them if, you know, you know, there, I've seen talk about, uh, using garbage for, uh, energy. Uh-huh. And so, you know, you could also apply the magazines toward that. Well, that would be a help. I wish they would do that here. We have got so little landfill space left that we're going to run out before the end of this decade. Yes. And it's really going to be a mess when they have to start hunting for places to put the things. Oh, I know it. We did have, uh, another novel, uh, experiment start this year. Now we can put all our yard clippings out. Oh. You can, you buy these super giant heavy-duty paper bags, they're about four-feet high. Uh-huh. And you get them for I think it's about fifty cents apiece at the grocery store you, um, usually buy them by the dozen. Uh-huh.
And then you put all your yard clippings and, uh, leaf rakings and anything that will be compostible . Oh, uh-huh. And those and they, the garbage men also pick those up on Thursdays. Oh, that's great. And then the, uh, they take them to a special part of our dump where composting is now in full swing, and at the end of every year, uh, they sell all the composts to nurserymen and to local people who want to put it on their flower beds Right, well, that's a great idea. I wish we were that, uh, involved in, uh, or that our city was so involved in, that involved in recycling, like that Yeah. because, you know, I've talked to many people and we wouldn't mind going its extra effort to do it. Uh, If they make it so that it's not a horrendous inconvenience, I think most people would. Yeah, oh, yeah. You know, and I don't mind, you know, at first it was the, the little extra money that you got, you know, returning the cans in and stuff like that. Right. But now, you know, I don't mind as long as things are getting recycled, you know, that we don't get reimbursed. No,
I think it's, it's, to me more of a convenience to have them come pick it up, then to get that two cents when you take it to the store. Uh-huh. Oh, I, oh, I know it. We still have bins at the grocery stores where you can turn in bottles and cans, for cash. Uh-huh. But so few people, uh, have enough to make that worthwhile you'd spend more in gas getting down there then you get back. Right. Yes. And then the, plus the time that you waste standing in line is valuable also. Now do the grocery stores in Houston have recycling for their paper bags and plastic bags? We have, I know of one that, the one that we use, uh, has, uh, recycling for the bags. Uh-huh. And, uh, and they're promoting the cloth bags. You know, the reusable cloth bags. Yeah, well, we can get a nickel apiece for any paper bags that we bring back to be reused. Oh, that's great. They just take it off like they do a coupon. They can just subtract it from your bill, Oh.
and they have a giant bin by the front door for the plastic bags, Uh-huh. and they say, as long as it's clean they don't want a plastic bag that's full of goop Yes. Here they don't want your rotted tomatoes. But they want any clean and dry plastic bag so I keep, and the thing is, I hardly have room now for all the things that we're saving it to recycle, so right outside the back door, I've got the two burlap bags hung up for the cans and bottles, Uh-huh. and there, right outside the, that place where the garbage can is we have the bag for the newspapers, and now we've got the bag for the plastic bags I understand, uh, my husband about once a weekend he'll go, uh, to a couple of areas where he knows that the people just throw cans out. Oh, yeah. And he'll go pick them up because he just can't stand that. He, he, Well, how nice, that's great. And, uh, it's so, you know,
he, we have all our piles of, of recyclables also. Uh-huh. I remember at Christmas the, the only thing that I'm, when you were talking about the composting, the only thing that our city did that was they uh, provided a place for us to take our Christmas trees. Uh, to for them to mulch. For, for city use. Uh-huh. Yeah. Well, that's, they just put all our Christmas trees in the regular, uh, compost, pickup Uh-huh. so they did say that you had to put it out within, I think it was, uh, three weeks after, Christmas. Uh-huh. Right. And, uh, otherwise you would have to treat it like you would any other lawn refuse. It would have to be cut into four-foot lengths. So, you know , if we have branches or something, they have to be cut in four-foot lengths, Uh-huh. but otherwise, uh, they have to be in one of their paper bags. Well, that sounds like you all really have a, a great system worked out there. And they even picked up our, uh, Styrofoam packing materials. They brought, uh, the week after Christmas they left a plastic bag on everybody's front doorknob with a little note on it saying, we're trying something new next week only, if you have any, uh, of those little, uh, Styrofoam peanuts that, any of your Christmas presents were packed in, put them in this bag and leave it out with your recycling
Uh-huh. Uh-huh. and we'll, uh, take all of those back and try to recycle them. Right. Well, see that's one, But I, that's not going to be a regular feature. That was just a one time thing right after Christmas. Well, the, but, uh, something does need to be done about the Styrofoam that, uh, Well, those things must take up a huge amount of space in landfills. Oh, yeah, I mean, they don't, uh, uh, They don't mash No. They don't compress at all. And they stay forever. Right. And I've seen where some places have taken a plastic and, uh, they're recycling them into other plastics. And the Styrofoam also into insulation and things like that Uh-huh.
and I think that would be great if they could get something organized along those lines. Yeah, I do too. The difficulty with that is that very few people have enough to make it worthwhile. It, they really have to rely on businesses that generate a lot of that stuff. Right. Uh, because otherwise, uh, you know, they're not going to go house-to-house collecting it, and you're not going to bother if you have one bag full, to drive all the way to some recycling center to turn in just your little plastic peanuts Uh-huh. Right Oh, I was thinking about, you know, like the, uh, the Styrofoam used at, uh, the fast-food restaurants, that if everybody, uh, Yeah. and so, yeah, I know like our cafeteria here uses a lot of Styrofoam but, uh, Now we quit that about two years ago, no, three years ago when we got china mugs for everybody. Huh. So, and the only difficulty with that is that we're in the middle of a five-year drought and so it's a real difficult choice whether we want Styrofoam cups to fill up our landfills or, uh, china cups to use up our water
But at the moment we're using the china cups, and everybody gets one at the beginning of the year, and then, uh, your supposed to keep it recycled every day. Well, that's good. That's a, Yeah. they should last awhile Well, let us hope that everybody's going to be paying more attention to this and that we will get, uh, better reuse of things because, I believe we are. I I have to believe everybody is starting to pay attention and take heed of what is happening. Yep. And so it will, it will be good, in the long run. It sure will. Well, I enjoyed it. Well, good to talk, Yeah, the question was, uh, what kind of books do you read for entertainment, uh, uh, I guess, Oh, I just read for escape. Okay
Well, I mean it's, With two little kids I can understand that. Yes. It's that's simple. I read to escape, and I don't read any PARENTS magazines either. Oh So. What, uh, what kind of, Well, I just finished, just, I just finished one last night. A great book. It, it's very, a typical for my reading though but a great book, one called, THE THINGS THEY CARRIED by Tim O'Brien. Huh. And it's, uh, God I don't know if I would call it a collection of Vietnam war stories or if I'd call it a collection of Vietnam love stories. Oh. Strange book. Beautifully written. Uh-huh. Just beautifully written. By, uh, somebody who was there
or, Yeah, a guy who was there as a, uh, foot soldier. Uh-huh. So, he considered himself to be, you know, a, a true Vietnam soldier. Yeah. Well, any of the guys that were ground yes. Yeah, I can imagine. Yeah. So, what's the latest one you've read? Well, I tell you what, I'm a kind of, uh, a history nut. I'm trying to think back now, I read an awful lot of, uh, periodicals and, uh, you know, almost what you call reference books. Uh-huh. And, uh, the last, uh, I'm embarrassed to say the last, you know, honest to gosh, cover to cover book that I read, I cannot, right offhand, I tried to read, uh, one of the, the Michener, uh, LONE STAR or the, the TEXAS HISTORY BOOK. I have never been able to make it through any of Michener's work. Oh, well, I've had similar problems.
It does tend to, to, Have you, are you a Civil War buff at all? Yeah, as a matter of fact, yeah Because I finished one, I think this is like two years ago, and somebody had given me one of these dinky do, crappy women's novels set in the Civil War, John Jakes with , Yeah. and the novel didn't do that much for me. But, boy, the period of time was fascinating. Uh-huh. So, I then read, was it BATTLE CRY OF FREEDOM, Uh-huh. or, yeah, I think it was BATTLE CRY OF FREEDOM. BATTLE CRY OF FREEDOM . It's kind of like a historical compendium, of the Civil War, Yeah. and it's not a story of the Civil War,
it's a story of all the politics and, uh, lobbying and just basically state by state events, that lead to the events that brought about the Civil War. Uh-huh. And it's fascinating because I had always, you know, been raised on this, you know, Emancipation Proclamation with the Civil War. Uh-huh. There was a lot more to it than that, weren't there? There was a lot more to it than that. As a matter of fact that was a very minor part that kind of become like an afterthought. Yeah, well, it was a political move. Oh, yeah. It was made to placate some of the northern support but not completely alienate all the southern support because, you know, it was, uh, if you read it, it only emancipated those who were in areas, uh, in rebellion against the United States. All the other areas which would, I think at that time would have included West Virginia and, oh, may have been Kentucky, a few states, you know, that were not part of the South but still had slaves. Uh-huh. They didn't emancipate them. Well, you know what else really surprised me, now I'm married to a native Texan and I'm not. Uh-huh. Uh, I've got the same problem
yeah, I'm glad you put it that way. And I have two native Texan children too. Yeah. My husband is always, you know, talked about Texas being a, uh, rebel state. Uh-huh. And, oh, my God, all this Civil War pride. I kept waiting for, where's some reference to this goddamn State of Texas and the role that they played either leading up to or in the Civil War. isn't much there, was there? They might as well have not even been there. Right. You know, they weren't a state and the only, the only way that they had any part in it was after worth as to, you know, who's going to be going there. And I keep telling my husband that, and he keeps saying, oh, no. I thought, okay. They supplied some, uh, you know, they were some groups of it, the Vicksburg, if you ever get a chance to go over to Vicksburg, the battleground at Vicksburg, uh, there's an area there where there was, uh, some Texas, uh, groups
and they had an interesting time there. Oh, I'll bet they did. And down there at Sabine Pass, uh, I can't think of the guy's name but he held off, uh, you know, just he and a handful of guys managed to hold off the whole Union navy for a while from coming up the Sabine River which was of no consequence but still is an interesting story. Well, you know, why they actually held them off? None of the Yankees wanted to listen to their kind of luted grammar That could be it could be it. Now, you didn't hear me say that. Outside of, uh, And then the last Civil War battle was fought at Val Verde, you know, over there on the Texas border you had a lot of, of groups heading for Mexico and they were cut off at the pass more or less, at Eagle Pass. And they didn't get across the river there so they're, the last, and that was actually after the war was over but it was the last, organized battle between the two units was in Texas, Yeah. so. Oh. Yeah,
Texas participation in the Civil War was, uh, minor at, uh, it's been, Boy, don't tell that to a native Texan though, Yeah. I mean, my god, they fought and won the whole thing. Yeah, well, my wife's from Galveston, so. Oh. Yeah. Well, I'm from New Mexico so, you know, I was That's a beautiful state. That's a beautiful state. See I was raised in the Midwest which, you know, hell, we didn't even, you know, we didn't even know where the Mason Dixon Line was, Uh-huh. and besides, you know, if corn didn't grow there, it didn't matter. Huh. It sounds like Iowa or something.
Iowa and Nebraska. Uh-huh. Yep. And then I had probably lived the last eleven years in Massachusetts so, you know. What does that make me, an honorary Yankee Uh-huh. or, God knows what. Yeah, on, yeah. Oh, well, my sister's living in Illinois right now, so Well then, she's going to come out well rounded. Yeah. But outside of those kind of things, you know, the other thing that I've really gotten into reading, and I think this is because the kids are getting to me, is science fiction. Uh-huh. I've always kind of enjoyed it. I, I used to read a lot more than I do now. Well, I've gone to the point where my husband, my husband travels, I get out like, you know, two or three books.
Uh-huh. And I, I'm trying to think of, oh, Isaac Asimov, ROBOT series. Yeah. I mean, I think I've read all four of them and I understand that there's a fifth. Uh-huh. In the last six weeks he's been on the road a lot. I just turned around and looked at my brief, at my briefcase, my, uh, bookcase up here and I see ARMAGEDDON up there. And, uh, the SHADOW OF BLOOMING GROVE and TWO THOUSAND AND TEN and GRANT TAKES COMMAND and THE WAR IN THE YEAR oh, SPACE that was the one I was trying to wade through was SPACE, James Michener. Didn't get very far on that. You know, I think I read HAWAII, when I was about ten years old Yeah. or so. Yeah. Which is about the developmental level that, you know, you need to be at to read those things, and I still even then I was so, so disgusted with it I, I tried to read, I don't remember which other one it was, whatever one it was it was such a blockbuster seller. Yeah. And I just, I got about like a hundred pages through it and realized I had like a thousand more, I thought, I can't do this.
Yeah, it really the, the books are kind of, uh, imposing to say the least. Yeah. No, let's see, here's one called GHOST TOWNS AND MINING CAMPS OF NEW MEXICO now, not too many people have read that one I don't think. No. And there's THE HISTORY OF YOAKUM COUNTY, TEXAS there. I've got, uh, Is that a big, thick book? Yeah, and I've got, yeah, and I've got a HISTORY OF KINGSLEY, IOWA. What the, what the hell for? Why Kingsley, Iowa? Well, because that's where my folks all came from. Oh, okay. And they had a centennial here awhile back.
I read the GRANT TAKES COMMAND, that was pretty good. Well, That was part of that trilogy that, uh, Bruce Canton did. Now that's one that, That's one I don't know. See, I had never really been into science fiction that much until, uh, somebody gave me MIST OF AVALON probably about five or six years ago. Yeah. I don't know if I'd call it science fiction or fantasy. Sometimes it's awful hard, some of those get very philosophical they can be in any setting, they just happen to put them in a futuristic setting, you know, the, Well, I loved that novel. And then somebody said, oh, God, this would have been even long ago because I was in Boston and it was raining all night, and I had a hole in my roof and I was waiting for the whole house to collapse, and, uh, I was reading DUNE. Which seeming rather ironic. Oh.

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