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And I was walking, and it got kind of dark. Uh-huh. And I was by myself, and there was this fellow in this truck that kept circling the block. Ooh. And, so I, I kind of got frightened, and I kind of use that as an excuse. All I have to do, is start earlier, but. Right. I haven't walked since, so. It's always easy to find an excuse not to exercise. I know what you mean. Yeah, it sure is. It sure is. How about you? Do you exercise on a regular basis?
Um, well, I try to. Um, I started at the beginning of this year, I decided all right, I'm going to start exercising again, I'm going to be real good, and I went through the T I fitness center and registered for the, uh, aerobics classes there. Uh-huh. And they run for two months at a time. And you have to, you do have to pay to take them. And I took, I signed up for one that was three nights a week, an hour and a half, so that was four and a half hours a week. Oh. And it cost sixty dollars, and I thought, okay, that's not cheap, that'll encourage me to always go since I spent that much money. Right. And I had a friend of mine going, so I was real good, I only missed it about three times. And then, oh, March came around, and I signed up again,
and I got, uh, caught up with a class I was taking at T I, and then I was having to work some real late hours to get caught with my work after I got out of class. Uh-huh. And then I went to Colorado Springs the next week to do some training at the T I up there. And so that was two weeks I had missed, and, boy, I tell you what, I've been terrible ever since then. Yeah, it's once you get out of that habit you just don't, you don't get back into it. Uh-huh. Because I teach school, and last year a bunch of teachers had an aerobics class. We went in together and hired a private instructor, and she came to our school twice a week. Uh-huh. And, I, I was, I would go faithfully, and then I missed once. Then I went back again a couple times and missed another time, and then kept missing and never went back again. Uh-huh. I think, if you,
you just have to stick with it. Oh, yeah. I think I've been two maybe three times the month of April, and this session is about to run out. Now I signed up for a different one now that's only two nights a week because I am getting kind of into a real busy schedule as far as teaching a lot of training classes and some of them require me to go out of town, Uh-huh. and, and, uh, that just kind of throws my whole schedule off on doing that. Yeah. lately, uh, there's been nights that I could have gone and I've found excuses, uh things like I had the flu last week, Yeah. but I'm fine this week. I could have gone Monday. I could have gone tonight, and I didn't. Yeah. So, I'm kind of finding excuses, and now it's kind of like, well, this is the last week.
I'll just start fresh next week. But, I better better do it. And I think another thing is that my friend that was taking with me the first two months wasn't the second two months. She started taking tennis lessons, and so I haven't had that extra motivation, of, of us forcing each other, or not forcing each other but encouraging each other to go. Yeah. So. Sure, yeah that makes a difference when you have somebody to go with and to do the same the same thing. Uh-huh. Like it's misery loves company. I don't really love exercise. I mean, some I, the neighbor across the street, she goes, belongs to President's, and, uh, it's not President's any more. I don't know what the name of it is anymore. But she loves it. Uh-huh. I mean, it's just, it's an automatic high for her.
Uh-huh. She just enjoys it so much. And I don't. Yeah. I'm the same way. I feel good after I do it, but I hate it when I'm doing it. Yeah. You know, I just, I don't enjoy it at all, and she just loves it. So. Even when she doesn't go to the health club, she runs, you know. Uh-huh. And, it's a daily thing for her. So, it, you know, and it's so hard for me. I envy her, I wish I could be that way, but I don't. I don't, I do too.
and I have an older sister that loves running, too, and she runs all the time, but at, to me, it's every minute's agony, and I, in fact, I don't run. I hate to run. Uh-huh. Like when I walk I'll take along a radio or something and that helps, you know, pass the time. Right. Yeah, walking is kind of boring. I do have a few friends that live in my apartment complex in this neighborhood, and we try to, we used to try to get together, and I think now that the weather's getting nicer we're going to start doing it again and occasionally go walking. There's a real nice residential area right behind our apartment complex. Uh-huh, uh-huh. And it's not as boring if you get several people That's right.
and you can kind of talk, and, and it, it makes it pass pretty quickly, and the aerobics isn't too boring. I kind of enjoy it when I'm doing it. Um, it's a lot more fun than some other things I could do, I guess. Yeah, yeah. But, uh, I do, I do have to make myself go, and of course while I'm doing it I feel pretty good, and after I get finished I feel great. Oh, it's great afterwards, yeah. I mean, I can go in there, I can be, like a Friday afternoon when I'm tired, it's the end of the week and I just want to go home. And I'll make myself go, and I'll have headache and everything, and I get out, I don't have a headache any more. I feel great, and I'm just,
it's amazing how much better I feel. Yeah. And then just in general, I sleep a lot better Yeah, that's right. and I just feel much better. I mean, I've been kind of dragging the last few weeks, and I know if I would just get around to exercising I'd feel better. Exactly it does, it gives you energy. But my dragginess is my excuse for not exercising. Yeah. Well, I'm too tired, or I have a headache or, well, I just got over the flu, and I'm still kind of draggy so I better not go It's kind of a vicious circle isn't it?
Yeah, it really is. Yeah, I find, too, that I have more energy when I exercise, and, you know, it's silly not to, but, I don't know, it's just a put off. I don't know why I don't do more, and I, and I know that it's good for my health. I know, you know, from everything that you read and you see on television now, exercise is so important to good health. Right. So, you know, you, not only, you know, you're not only doing something to keep yourself fit, but you're probably prolonging your life. So. Right. There's no reason that we shouldn't do it, but I don't know. It's just hard to make yourself go. And I, I think one thing I don't like about aerobics is that after I'm finished it's kind of late at night, and I've been sweaty, and, and it, you know,
I don't really feel like going in the grocery store all sweaty or running errands. Yeah. So it kind of kills the evening for doing errands. So I think a Tuesday Thursday might be a little bit better. Yeah. Of course, I feel like once I've done it, if I'm sweaty I might as well do an extra thirty minutes because you've already kind of shot your night. Right. But, um, so I'm kind of glad they have a longer class on Tuesday, Thursday now that I can just kill two nights, and and, uh, get a reasonable amount of workout in. Yeah. Does it cost the same for just two nights or, No, it's less expensive. Well, that's good, too. This one was only forty-five dollars. But I'm glad it's not too totally cheap, because if it was too cheap I would talk myself out of going more, probably. Yeah, yeah. Since it's more expensive, I think, Okay, you spent that much money, you'd better go That's right, that's right.
So hopefully. Yeah, yeah, it's right there, and it's, they have a really nice facility at the T I. They've got two different aerobics rooms, they have the mirrors. Of course, sometimes you don't like to see the mirrors on the wall you don't like to see how you work. But, I guess, sometimes it kind of motivates you to really get going. But, Yeah, and then they hire private instructors? Uh-huh. Oh, that's great. And they have ceiling fans in the rooms, and it's, it's a pretty nice setup. Um, and of course it's real convenient, because it is right there at work. I think if I had to come home and then go somewhere, I'd never make it. Yeah.
And just the fact that I can go straight from my desk over to the, the recreation center and do it helps a lot. Uh-huh. Yeah, I can see that would be, uh, easy. They make it as easy as they possibly can for you. Oh, yeah Well, um, do a lot of people take advantage of it? Quite a few do. They have probably, ooh, I'd say fifteen different, fifteen to twenty different aerobics classes each session that are running, and they have them anywhere from six in the morning. Uh, they have some during, during lunch hour that are shorter, and I guess guys can take advantage of that. For me, I wouldn't have time to do an hour, hour of aerobics and then take a shower and get, get dressed again. Oh, yeah. But there's a lot more guys that do that one. Uh-huh. And, um, they have them, you know, in the evenings, they even have some late night ones for people that work second shift and things like that. So they have big variety. They even have some, uh, aerobic, uh, water aerobics when the weather gets nice out in the pool.
I've never done that one before. But. Oh, you have a pool there, too? Uh-huh. Oh, how nice. They've got an olympic pool, and, and basketball courts and sand volleyball. They've got the full weight room and, uh, the locker rooms with, uh, a jacuzzi and sauna and the shower facilities, and hair dryers, and all the, you know, everything you'd need just about. Wow. It's a real, it is a real nice facility. It's also got a full inside basketball court, and I think they're working on building a jogging track and some other things. But it's, it is very nice. That's great. I just don't take as much advantage of it as I should. Now to use, I mean, I'm just now finally starting to do the aerobics thing. But. Well, does it cost money like to use the, to exercise in the weight room or to, uh, to to go swimming. Do you have to pay for that, too. Yeah.
You can get a fitness membership that allows you to use the facilities, and it's about eight dollars a month. Oh, that's not bad. No, not at all Huh-uh. Pretty cheap. Um. And then the aerobics cost extra even if you have the fitness membership, but, I think the aerobics classes are even pretty reasonably priced, from what I've heard. I think so too, yeah. Well, and people of all ages take advantage of the aerobics? Hm? People of all ages take advantage of the aerobics? Oh, yeah, in fact, uh, the T I-er's families can come in on these things, I'll let you go first. Oh, well, what's there to say? Doesn't seem like it's being carried out very well in my opinion.
Seems like it takes so long between conviction and carrying out the penalty that I don't see that it makes any difference to sentence anybody. Yeah, it seems like they could die of old age waiting to get the death penalty. Yeah. Yeah, I know what you mean. Um, I, in Maryland they, they do have capital punishment, Uh-huh. and, uh, I've seen, uh, a lot of people get convicted, sentenced, and then just nothing happens, just endless, endless, endless appeals. Yeah. Uh-huh, well from what I I saw a statistic just a few days ago, um, so far this year, or was it during the last year, during a year's time, I think it was they executed twenty-five people in the nation. Meanwhile, there were twenty-five hundred people on death row. So I, I, and it's building up, you know, they're, they're convicting them faster than they're executing them so it's really building up.
Yeah, what's amazing is some of them have been on death row for a number of years. Uh-huh. And, uh, here in Maryland I know we have a real problem with overcrowding in prisons, uh, just, Yeah, everybody's got that. Yeah, but I mean, in, here it's, uh, to the point where they were letting prisoners go. Uh, commuting the sentences of those that were in, in jail for lesser crimes, in order to put more people in, into the jails. Uh-huh. Yeah. Uh-huh. And it was just, uh, amazing to me, and of course they made a big deal out of the, the few that got out and turned around and committed a crime within five days of getting out, and being rearrested an. Yeah. Isn't, isn't Maryland where the famous Willy Horton case was. Uh, I can't remember. Refresh my memory. It was, uh, that was the one that was used so much in the campaign. In the in the presidential race.
Uh, may, it may not have been Maryland. It may have been Massachusetts, I don't remember. Um, I don't remember myself. Anyway, well the question is, you know, do you think, it does make a difference in whether or not a criminal commits a crime or do you think it can if it's done right? Um, I think if they, if they started executing them on a regular basis, uh, that I think it might make a difference. Right now, I don't see it making a difference. If it, I don't see someone not going out there and committing murder because they're afraid they're going to get sentenced to death. I mean, most people out there committing murders don't care. Uh-huh They just don't care. Yeah. Well I think in large measure the reason they don't care, it's not because the punishment, but so many of the people that commit crimes don't get punished. Yeah. The police don't catch them, or the courts don't convict them,
or, or they don't serve very much of the time and so, uh, you know, their, their success rate is very high. Crime does pay, you can make a good living at it. Yeah, yeah, and there's, uh, there's a lot of people here in Baltimore that, uh, have and we just had, uh, a real big cocaine bust, and of course, you know, they're, they're playing it up real big that it was, looked like it was a very, very small ring and they just happened to get lucky and catch the guy. Yeah. But, I mean, uh, Baltimore has, uh, an all time record for the number of deaths so far this year. I think they've got over a hundred dead already this year. Last year it was D C, I guess Baltimore caught them. Well, it's kind of, it's kind of moved up and you have to remember that it, it, it, uh, there's, I think, X number of people out there that are going to commit murders, Uh-huh and, uh, once you kill off a few of them Yeah.
I mean if you murder a guy because he murdered your partner or something like that, I mean pretty soon you run out of people to murder. Yeah, the only consolation is so many of the murders are, you know, the, the violent people going against each other and so they, you know, society's not going to put them to death, well at least maybe the guy they cross next time is going to. Uh, I think, I think capital punishment is an appropriate punishment for the kind of people where we say, you know, this sort of person is just not acceptable to our society and we are there by going to remove them from society, not temporarily, but permanently. Yeah. I mean, I, I personally think life imprisonment, I don't think much of of life imprisonment. First of all, it's never, turns out to be life, but second, you know, why should we, the idea of life imprisonment with no chance of parole. Well that means you're going to put them in a cage you think it's never ever going to be safe for them to walk the streets again, well then, why bother. Just execute them, because that's, that way you're sure they'll never ever going to walk the streets again. Yeah. So any, any, anybody that says life in prison with no chance of parole, I'd say, uh, give them the death penalty So,
Yeah, you know, it makes sense, um, you know, you have the occasional person who may have been falsely accused, but I mean, uh, so few and far between, uh, you know, makes good T V movies and that's about it. Yeah, and, and also, um, the, the thing I don't like about a lot of these court trials and a lot of these appeals is that it's not based on what is true and what is false but rather it's on the rules of evidence, what can I hide and what do I have to tell. Yeah. And I think our courts should be geared much more strongly towards finding out the truth than they currently are. Yeah. And, and that way we can be sure, you know, we can find out the truth, we can find out what really happened and, and base the sentence on what the person did, not on what we're allowed to let the jury hear Yeah, I had, my, uh, my father-in-law participated in a, uh, a jury trial, he was, he was actually on the jury, Uh-huh and, uh, this man was accused of killing, uh, I think it was two people, uh, and shooting a, uh, policeman, um, point blank in the face.
Of course he didn't die. Uh-huh. And, uh, this was during a holdup of a, uh, uh, a restaurant and it came out during the trial that, um, they had tried to rob another place and, uh, when the guy came out with the bag they thought was money, it turned out to be a couple cookies, and, uh, you know, jumbo cookies and, and so they were so upset from robbing this guy, you know, trying to do this holdup that didn't work that they quite literally were mad and went into a restaurant to hold the place up and just started, you know, shooting people. Just started shooting people, because they botched the first job You know it's, and, so now they're going to get even. Yeah. Yeah, and get even with who, I mean, Yeah. you know, stupid guys And, uh, it turned out that the, you know, policeman survived to the point that he was able to, you know, identify the guy. Uh-huh. And of course, you know, they tried to make the cop look like he was, uh, a, uh, no good rotten drunk. Yeah. I mean it was amazing.
So what was the verdict, what was the results there. Oh, he was found guilty, yeah. Oh. He, uh, um, last I heard, he, uh, he beat a push for the death penalty. Now whether they finally got it or not, I don't know. Uh-huh. I kind of, uh, stopped listening after a while. Uh-huh. Um, you know, he would come home and, and, you know, after the trial was over he came home and told us what was going on and of course then they had to go back to you know, after he had to go, The, the penalty phase, yeah, they've, decide the penalty separately from the verdict. Right. And, uh, yeah everybody, everybody was pretty much, you know, let's burn him.
Uh-huh. And that's, you know, that's the way they wanted to do it. And he was surprised because he thought there was going to be a problem because he, uh, you know some people on the case were, were a little hesitant on convicting him on some of the charges but I mean when it all came down, they just, within an hour decided the man's fate. Yeah, well, you know, you just have to decide, you know, well there's really two separate decisions there I guess, one is, did it really happen the way the, the prosecutor said it happened, you know, is this man really guilty, and you have to decide that, but then you have to decide, you know, as a member of society what do I want to do with this guy who did this thing. Yeah. And that I, I've never been on a jury, I've never had that experience, I'm not sure I'd look forward to making that kind of decision about a man's life. Yeah, yeah, well, it, it, it went pretty, pretty quick from what he said.
Uh-huh But I mean there's, there's, there's a lot of other crimes out there, I mean besides murder, I think, uh, now if you're dealing drugs now, caught more than twice or something, uh, it, there's, uh, a death penalty associated with it. Uh-huh. Yeah. Well the thing I'd be most likely to attach the death penalty to is the violence. I mean, I can handle people, people selling drugs, you know, it's, it's wrong, but it, it's not worth somebody getting executed for. But we hear so much about the violence and how it's not safe to walk the streets because somebody, you know, these random drive by shootings and that sort of thing. Uh-huh. And the people I'd most likely want to sentence to death are the people that just show a really low regard for human life. That, you know, you, never know when they're going to turn or hurt the next person because it doesn't really matter to them whether someone else gets hurt or not. Yeah, yeah, I agree. And so I go, these are the kind of people I would like to get out of here and get out of circulation and say I don't, we don't accept your kind in our society.
Yeah, I agree, I, I've, I have, uh, a low tolerance for that kind of, uh, that kind of person. And, uh, as far as, uh, you know there are some, some other crimes that I think, uh, you know, uh, kidnapping, um, you know, when they, I mean kidnapping per se has a certain, uh, uh, fine and penalty associated with it, Uh-huh. but, um, some of these people are just out and out brutal. I, some of the cases I've heard about over the years, I pay a good deal of taxes I guess, because I, I make a fair amount of money, and, uh, the taxes that I pay, um, I guess as a, as a general statement, I feel I, I guess I get my money's worth for. Okay. I'm not sure, though, whether I feel, I guess I am sure that I feel that, in general, though, uh, the allocation, uh, of the taxes in certain areas, isn't correct. Well, I'm sure that, uh, probably every person in this country would agree with you on that. Because everybody has a different idea of where the money should go. Well, I, I, lately, I guess, um, uh, or, at least for the last twenty years or so, I've felt that the expenditures of our taxes into high cost, uh, defense items, at least in the last ten years, have been, uh, there's been and extraordinary amount of money spent there,
and I'm not really sure that, that we've gotten our money's worth there, uh, regardless of the outcome of the Desert Storm, uh, Desert Shield, uh, situations. Uh-huh. Yeah. Uh, I guess my particular beef is that having participated in the military off and on over the, over the years of being called back and things of that nature, is, uh, I've found that, you know, there's an extraordinary amount of waste. I take that as a, as a given in any military operation and Oh yeah, no argument here. yeah, and I I, I should imagine that, that, that what the, what the problem, why I, I'm, I'm a little concerned about today is that this, uh, rather, uh, quick and, and easy, I don't know, I shouldn't say easy, rather quick victory in the, in, in the, uh, Mideast, uh, uh, over the, uh, Iraqis, uh, might lead us into, uh, a false sense of security that we can do that against any other foe. I'm, I, I don't know what other foe that would be, but, uh, I, I'm just getting nervous again, now hearing the voices come up that there has to be increased expenditures in that area. Yeah, well, of course, uh, a lot of, uh, a lot of missiles and things were expended in the course of fighting the war, and the, and the inventory's going to have to be restocked, uh, on, now I work for T I, and one of the things we were told is, like, they had eleven thousand HARM missiles which T I is the sole supplier for,
and they used up two thousand of them in, in the war, so they're going to have to do another contract to restock that, to get ready in case something else is needed. Yeah, but, it, it, it, would that be, uh, well, let's see, two thousand out of eleven thousand, that's about a little over twenty per cent. Uh, I, I should imagine that, that would be to keep it at a level, those levels, I guess, that, that were originally appropriated was when the Soviet threat, I guess, was perceived as being a greater one. I don't think there's very much of a threat there today. I do worry about what nuclear weapons are left in the territories, uh, in their territory over there, and who's controlling them, but that's true, that's true. I, I don't know what amount of, what amount of, our hardware would stop some fanatic, I guess, from doing anything, uh, that would be irrational. Well, of course now, we used up twenty per cents, per cent of that inventory, in a matter of just a few weeks, Right. Yeah. and, uh, uh, uh, T I also makes the missile, which was the, the T V laser guided bombs Yeah. and, and, a big percentage of that was expended, as well,
that that that was just a matter of, Oh, what is the name of that? Uh, it's called Paveway. Yes, yes. And, uh, a big percentage of that was used up during that conflict also. So those are two areas in which T I stands to, to gain some, some short term business to restock that. Yeah, well, uh, I'm, what I'm, uh, I guess uh, it, concerned about, talking about the taxes in general, and that, that was an area that I, I perceive as not being the best expenditure for the amount of dollar that we're taxed for, uh, in the area of defense, or perhaps we have paid too much there, I don't know, it just seems to me that over the years, now, the, and, and it's, it's a cliche, I, I, but I see it myself, I see where the infrastructure is sort of breaking down, the roads, the highways.
Oh, no doubt. I, I, I don't know, uh, I I'm familiar with some, some upbeat school areas, so I don't totally agree with the, the great, uh, uh, with the, with the great expenditure of effort and time there, but I guess overall, because I guess I'm not associated with what ghetto schools, and, and, uh, and, uh, rural school systems are like, I, I should imagine that would take an enormous expenditure. Yeah, as a matter of fact, in Texas, um, we've had our school funding system declared unconstitutional by the, a state judge, and they, and, uh, the legislature just passed what they called a Robin Hood Bill, which, basically, what it does, is it takes extra money from the more affluent school districts, that are, that are, you know come from local taxes and send them to other parts of the state, that are not so affluent. Uh-huh. They, they don't have a broad based income tax that funds the educational system, Uh, well, or is it all funded out of local taxes? okay, to to give you some perspective, this, this town that I had lived in for sometime in nineteen eighty-three was funded sixty-five per cent by state funds. Yeah. Then we had a number of education reforms, that the legislature said, hey, we got to do this, we got to do this, we got to do this, but, they forgot to put in the state budget the money to pay for it, and they dumped it all on the local school districts.
So, Sounds like the way the federal and state system works now. Really. Yeah. So, so what ended up happening was, was a, was a shift. We went to sixty-five per cent state funding to sixty-five per cent local funding in a matter of four years. And, uh, I mean, Oh, complete, complete. It's all shifted to local districts, and now, even the money that's been raised for the local districts is being, is going to be siphoned off and sent to other parts of the state. That's right, and, and I have, I have no problem, with, uh, a certain, uh, floor level, minimum level, that's a standard uh, that everybody, uh, ought to be able to have, uh, Yeah. but, I am opposed to, any attempts to restrict, um, local communities from taxing themselves above that to provide above the minimum. Yes, I see what you're saying. Uh, I, uh, I, I do, I, I guess I am a uh, a strong and staunch supporter of some subsidy for any forms of education. I mean, by that I mean, I'm a product myself, I have, uh, a, a, a, a background of, uh, being, uh, getting my college education through the G I Bill. So did I. My Masters, anyway.
What, but, uh, when I look at it to me, uh, it doesn't really make any difference. It was a marvelous opportunity that I couldn't have done, I don't think I would have gone on, unless I had that financial uh, easement made possible. Yeah. That's right. And I, I don't really care what it takes to qualify, whether you're, uh, an, an whether you're a veteran or whether you, I don't even know if you have to perform community service, or unless, uh, or, or you promise to even do something in the future, I think that, uh, the, that, that, the subsidy itself, or I guess the enactment of that form of legislation, would give many people who, I, I think, I think I perceive the fact, Uh-huh. at least what I read, is that some younger people feel that education is priced out of their, uh, out of their, uh, budget. I know in the state of Florida just today, uh, the, the legislature, uh, adjourned, and, uh, they had completed a fifteen per cent increase in the, in the, uh, state land grant colleges, which, which isn't, I mean, to me it doesn't sound like a lot of money, but I guess it would be for fifteen hundred dollars a year. Uh-huh. They went from eleven to fifteen hundred, Yeah. and, uh, for an out of state student the tuition went up twenty-five per cent.
I don't know what that would be. Yeah, they had to, they had to raise, uh, community college taxes here, a few years ago. But that, uh, I guess that goes along with the general idea that the federal government had to, uh, was expending so much money on defense, uh, that, that the program now is a, uh, program now is, uh, fees that, that fund these things, I guess that's trickled down to the states and, the states now establish, uh, don't have enough money Uh-huh. so they, they must charge fees. Uh, I, I'm not too sure of that reasoning. Yeah. But I guess to get back to the main topic, I don't know whether I pay too much taxes. I, I, I travel extensively in Europe and see enormous, uh, people pay, uh, a great deal in taxes, they tell me when I sit and talk to people there they tell me they, they, some states they pay, uh, in Germany or in, in England in some cases people in my income level, at least, allege that they pay up to fifty-five percent of their gross income in taxes. Oh, oh, I can believe that. But, but, I'm not too sure when I put my property tax in, my car tax, my income tax, and these myriad of, uh, now it costs me money to leave the country, some sort of a tax to leave the country, some sort of an airport departure tax, uh, uh, a tax, a sales tax which is getting to, uh, quite high levels,
Yeah, yeah. I'm not sure that I'm not up fairly close to that. Well, I guarantee you, you'd be paying a lot more in taxes if, uh, the Democrats had more say. You really think so? Yeah, I really do. But I mean, what's, what's happened here is, is, is I feel that, that in the last ten years, uh, my taxes have gone up, they haven't gone down. I pay uh, quite a bit more taxes Yeah. and, and, and, Everybody, everybody is. but that's been a Republican government for the last ten years. Well, what, what, what they've been able to do is slow down the rate of increase To keep it, to keep it from becoming even more obnoxious. Well I, Yeah. Well, this has been really interesting, and I've enjoyed our talk.
Okay, uh, I guess I just push something here. Push one again, right? No, you just, uh, we just say, say good-bye and that's it. Just hang up. Okay, Don, good talking with you. Nice talking with you, too. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Um, I think life, uh, now I grew up on a farm, I don't, what kind did you grow up in the farm. I grew up in, um, well, at that time I was in a, uh, Trenton , New Jersey so, and it was a suburb of Trenton ,
so I really had mixture of suburb, and urban living. Uh-huh. Yeah. I think though it was much slower and, uh, much more self-contained. I think you're right. It's interesting I'm, um, I work in a high school. Uh-huh. So, uh, I'm comparing my life when I was in high school thirty years ago to what I see these children doing. Yes. And the pressures on the children, uh, you know, you hear this as an excuse, but it's true they are so much greater. Unreal, unreal by comparison. Oh, I cannot believe, uh, what they're doing, uh, academically the demands on them and, uh, and I can see why children do drop out. Yeah, I think that's right. I can see, I can see the, uh, you know, I, I can remember as a child, you know, nobody ever worried about me wondering out at night and going where I wanted to go.
Uh-huh, uh-huh. It wasn't, it didn't occur to nobody to worry that anything would happen to me they were, And you, you didn't, you didn't have to lock your door. No, no. And, uh, a some of these are urban worries but, uh, it's, uh, it's a lot different all though I guess twenty years a go now, in this area, things were, um, similar because twenty years ago let's see, it was after, It's not all that long ago is it yeah, to twenty, twenty-five years ago is when we had the Washington riots, Uh-huh, uh-huh. the first rights we've been having some problem now and it reminded me of that. Yeah,
we were living in New Jersey. Uh, in, twenty years ago. Uh-huh. Whereabouts? In Allendale . Uh-huh. And, uh, I use to have to go over to Patterson when those riots were going on, at sometimes. Uh-huh. Um, I don't know though it's, it's kind of hard to really know because of though the news media had those riots, uh, kind of blown up out of proportion. Uh-huh, well, because I went there many times and, the Washington riots weren't, because The Washington riots weren't because I lived right downtown, Washington and, uh, and what you saw is was what you got I'm telling you.
That's what, yeah, well. Yeah, but, you know, it's, it is interesting, uh, they're so many they're different kind of dangers that face young people now and social pressures, uh, the pressures of drug is so much, the prevalence is so much greater, Uh-huh. the, the kinds of diseases that you've got out the, uh, um, Uh-huh. I mean the consequences is so much of what's going on, is so much more serious then when we were younger. I think that's true, I think that's true. I think the other thing is that, uh, we have taken some rather drastic turns in our, in our education and the way we approach things as of maybe starting back when, when I'm number one, you know, and, uh, uh, uh, worrying about self and not, uh, seeing the consequences of the disintegration of the family. Uh-huh, uh-huh. And, uh, and there have been many things that have happened that have not encouraged closeness of families and, uh, support for young people that the kind of support that they need, to help them take care of the things,
Yes, and, if you don't have some kind of, of basic believe or something down inside of you, then it's very difficult to, uh, have anything to turn to, when you got, when you've got something facing you like that. Uh-huh. That's true. I also being involved in the school system see so many of the problem children coming from their parents, um, children who will lie and cheat and you approach their parents, and their parents are constantly justify them rather then to, Uh-huh. uh, you know, they're constantly, excusing their, child Like . Right. and you can see exactly, why the child is that way. Yeah exactly. You can as a teacher, can't hold a child accountable, if you're not going to get reinforced by, that at home. Yeah. That's right. that's right. And you can't make up in a classroom of one hour a day, what's not been done for, fifteen or sixteen years at home,
No. That's right. Oh. and you're, you get mixed signals so it's, it's not always the school's systems I think a lot of, No, there's so much more, then that it starts, very much deeper then that yeah. I think that too. I see some flickers of, of, uh, of good directions turning, No . but whether they're soon enough and fast enough I don't know, it's just, Of course, life is a lot more complicated too in ways, um, the kinds of jobs that people need to be trained, for now. Right. Uh, you know, with farming being so mechanized, uh, people working on the family farm which was a traditional American way that becomes less and less likely, Uh-huh.
factory jobs are so much more, um, uh, sophisticated. Yeah, that's right. And the kinds of knowledge that, uh, you know, it, it's requiring an increasingly sophisticated labor force and, some people just don't have it. Right. And there's so much, so, so many people on the lower end of those who, who are going to be the, the drop outs and the, and the poor and the homeless and whatnot, And you worry when, you know these the sex and drugs on the young children and the unborn children, Yeah, that's just another, uh, in terms of what it's going to mean to a society, in the future it's a Yeah. some ways it's rather frightening, It really is it's just, it just is almost overwhelming sometimes when you think, of, of the jobs that is out there to be done, in order to flip things back around the way they needed to be, It certainly is. Well, it sure is. It sure is. Uh, not that I really think that they were perfect ten, twenty, or thirty years ago,
but, It was a little easier though wasn't it? Uh, yeah, just the volume makes a big difference, Yes. I think as, uh, as, uh, mother you know, I use to think sometimes it's not so much, uh, it's not so much the kids, it's just the volume of it, to try to keep all wash done and all the things done and, you know, and everything. Right. uh, I look at my mother's life I mean she, she didn't work, um, um, for a long time when I was very young she didn't drive. Uh, she learned to drive I think when I was, um, a teenager, and her life was a lot simpler, Right and, and children's lives were simpler because mother was there, and I sit here, somebody was there. That's right. And, and when there's nobody there, That's right, that's right.
I always thought too that, you know, people worrying about going to work when their child, when their children are little and I, and I think that's sad if they have to because they miss so much, but I, I believed after having a few teenagers that the worst time you could go, to go work was when they were teenagers. They need you more as a teenager . Isn't that true. That's why I'm working in a school system so that I'm home when they're home. Um, Right, it's not so much that they come to you every minute, but it's that you are there when they need you. That's isn't that, that's so true, Yeah. uh, uh, I find working in a high school is very helpful because it lets me be a little more tolerant and understanding of what people do, Yeah. and it keeps me from being the old fogy so, but at the same time, it also it prevents kids from try to go pull the wool over your eyes, Yes, I think that's true.
as to what's but that's the same I'm home in the summers, I'm home with the holidays, Yeah, that's, I'm home at three o clock when the children are at home or where home, Yeah. one is now a senior in high school and the other's in college, Well, and, uh, But that helps a lot, It's, uh, it, uh, it does, I have a daughter who just had a second job, she needed to work and he opted to go into a day care center where she could have her children with her. And, uh, and looked a long time before she found one that was laid back enough so they she would be able to interact with them, Uh-huh, uh-huh. That's right.
and, uh, and so I, , you know, good kind of experience as well but, uh, Well I, I think that's really important I don't think people realize how important it is. That's, that is, that is so true, Yeah, uh, and it's not that always that the children always say something but every once in awhile they'll come up and make a comment, Yeah. and you realize it's important that, uh, and yet, you know, we have to make that choice I think twenty, thirty years ago a lot of women, just didn't have to make that choice. Yeah. I think that's right. What was, what was your name again? Well, I, Linda Lee. Linda.
Uh-huh. Okay. And your name was? Well I think probably that we've just about Well I enjoyed, talking with you. I'm going to, change the world but, uh, Well, I enjoyed talking with you. Yes, it's nice talking to you, too. Okay. Bye now. Bye-bye. There we are. very Yes . Tell me, what are some of the things that you did with your children when they were growing up? Oh, well, uh, when they were little, we did lots of reading and playing and going to parks, and things of that sort, and, I had two boys. Uh-huh. They were both interested in things like model rockets,
so we would go to the football field and set off model rockets I have two boys also Uh, my children are, um, are swimmers, and so as they were growing up much of, uh, our, um, normal life outside of school and everything uh, revolved around their swimming. Uh-huh. So, in order to have a reason for being there, especially as they got older, I became involved in it too so we were always together at their meets. Oh, well, that's good. Um, mine were not terribly sporting. Uh-huh. Uh, they both did T-ball and soccer in grade school, Uh-huh. but neither one of them carried on, uh, the sports after that. Yeah, the, the boys tried those, but they they did go in, they started swimming when they were, oh, seven and eight, and they really loved it, and they're swimming both they'll be,
one is in college, also swims in college, and the other will continue to swim in college, and they're fortunate, they even made nationals. Oh, wonderful! Oh that's great! And so we would drive up to see that when whenever it was reasonably close, but, we did a lot of things, um, and we tried to do things both together and individually with the children, um. Yeah, I, we live near Washington, so we, we would always go in for the museums. Sure. That's always a big, uh, thing. And one of my children is, uh, also a musician so, um, one of the things that we did with him a lot was to go, either my husband or I, or both of us would, concerts with him. Uh-huh. And my other child, um, uh, is in, big into tropical fish, Uh.
so our whole family, we take family trips to different places to visit fish stores or go to fish shows, so My goodness, uh. Well, we didn't have any, uh, avid, uh, activities like that, they, they were interested in a lot of things, but nothing to quite that depth, I guess. But, we would, I don't think we've, we've missed a fish store on the entire east, northeast coast of the United States Oh my goodness. Well, we did go to things like aquariums and, uh, uh, natural history museums and zoos, and all of those things that one does with kids, uh, Uh-huh. Yes. In fact, it's funny, our vacations have always been, um, uh, uh, as, as they've gotten older. When they were younger we would go to the beach, but as they got older we tried to pattern our vacations where we would travel and do things, and that there would be a, a feature each day. Whether it would be going to, Uh-huh. Uh, yes. one summer we, uh, we went up to New England and we went to the marble quarries up there, and, uh, to see that, and another day fish hatchery,
Oh, really . and, so we did, you know, we did try, Yeah. and of course we learned too. Yeah. But, uh, and, uh, I don't know, I, uh, when they were very young I did not work. Yeah, well, I started working half-time when, uh, they were at the nursery school. Uh-huh. But I yet. And I, I started working part-time when they were in, um, junior high school and high school, and now, and I worked in the school system, and now I work a full school day, but that leaves me off on holidays and summers. Uh-huh. So it was a, it was a, you know, I think they need me more, when they were older, than they did when they were,
Yeah. Well, uh, I think, it, uh, they need you in different ways. That's true, yeah. You want to be around for the crisis and things like that, and, but it's not quite so much the hand-holding and peanut butter and jelly making That's right. Um, yeah, that's, that's for sure. That's for sure, what do you, do you have any feelings as to the trends that you see? Well, it the one trend I would say is that with so many more women choosing professional careers, there are fewer of them home in the afternoons, Uh-huh. and I don't think it needs to be the mothers, but I think it would be nice if some of the parents would be around for a few more hours. Yeah, when they , you know it was funny, I can remember,
and my mother and I have talked about it, to how important it was when I came home from school. Um. It wasn't really conversation, but there were always things that just tumbled out. Yes. And, uh, uh, granted the child doesn't always think that they're sharing it, but it, when they, when it's not there they miss it. I think that's true, but I I also think that's, at least in my experience, truer of girls than boys. Uh-huh. Even when I was there, my boys didn't share all that much with me, and certainly not to the extent I did with my mother. Yeah, yeah. No, I, I, I realize that, but it's funny, they don't always do it, but occasionally they do, and you want,
Yeah. Uh-huh. and when they do, there's a reason for it, that they're sharing it, Uh-huh. and you want to be at least I've wanted to be available, when they, for some reason, they had, they were bouncing something off of me. Because it was something that was bothering them or they were concerned about, Right. and it was, uh, you just felt, gee, if I weren't here, how, Uh-huh or, or if my husband, Who would they ask? That's right. Or what would they do? Yes, that's exactly right. Uh, but it has been, um, it's been interesting and particularly I, I think because the society in which we live, families are separated. You don't have grandparents near by or aunts and uncles. Uh-huh. Um, I mean, I grew up in a situation where on weekends we were always visiting relatives. Yeah,
well, I did too. We were close to my, uh, maternal grandparents, I mean, just a few miles, and, uh, close enough to visit my paternal grandparents, you know, quite often. Uh-huh. Yeah, yeah. They were fifty miles away but, See, and we're, uh, that, we, I, I grew up with, you know every weekend there was some visiting somewhere. Uh-huh. Um, and it was sort of an Italian family, Um. um, but my children, we, although we have some relatives in the area that we, we see, we, they don't it's not that constant thing where you are on intimate terms with cousins. Right. Well, when my kids were quite small, uh, we lived close to both sets of grandparents
Uh-huh. and they saw them a lot, but they don't have any cousins, uh, or they didn't, Yeah. their, uh, their cousins are about ten years younger. Uh-huh. So, uh, they never played together or anything. Yeah. And there are only two of them and they didn't live in the same town. that the trend of, of families and time, where, where parents are spending less time, you don't have the families, too, to take up the gap. That's right. And so the kids in some ways are, are, are suffering a little bit, in that, uh, the model, the role models that get the, the, the family issues that get discussed, and all these, I think are very important parts of them growing up, Yeah. Uh-huh. so we, we try to, to do it as well as we can. We keep in close contact with grandparents and talk over the phone,
Uh-huh. and cousins and aunts and uncles, and we do, but it's, although it's not the same, we are, and that's part of, I think, teaching too, is what a family is like, because then how do they pattern their own? Well everyone makes its own model, but, uh, it seems that there should be some continuity, Yeah, Um. and it's helpful to have, uh, things that become family traditions, and that sort of thing. That's, yeah. Well, we've always, we have had this tradition, um, that we always go out before Christmas and cut our own tree. Uh-huh. And that's always been a little bit of a tradition that we've had. Now, this year, it's, was hard with our son now being in college. Yeah So this was one thing that we, um, weren't able to do this year, but we did that for from the time the children were young enough to realize what it was until, uh, our older son went away to college. Oh, well, that's the kind of thing that they will remember, though.
And we have advent calendars still, from the time that they came, you know, to, Uh-huh. Ours finally disintegrated. Oh. We had a felt one that was it was a Christmas tree that had, uh, a little trinket for each day, that was pinned on the date, Oh, yes. That's, uh-huh. and then you took it off and put it on the tree, so at the end you had a decorated tree. Well, ours is, uh, a friend uh, a friend of mine from Denmark hand appliqu3ed one for each child. And it finally got moth-eaten, we threw it way last year How nice. And, I mean, they look today as new as they did when they gave them to, she gave them to us, and there's a ring and you buy a present, Oh, I see.
and you wrap the present up, and I mean, the presents have gone from the days when they were very young to a little box of Band-Aids and an eraser and things, How cute. to today, where, um, sometimes I put a little gift if I see something that's, uh, occasionally a Christmas tree decoration which they will save for their, their future, to sometimes, just money, uh, pieces of candy. Uh-huh. Yeah. So, I think as they're getting in college, I just, for my older boy that was in college I put a dollar bill for each day. Which was the equivalent Oh, I'm sure he appreciated that! well, it was the equivalent of a Christmas present. Uh-huh. But it was, uh, and it was, and, you know, it was fun, but that's a tradition and they will, those will be passed on to them when they, when they get married and leave. Yeah. Well, you were saying what other trends are there, and one just occurred to me because I was editing a book about it recently, Uh-huh. and that is the trend in a lot of, uh, lower class areas, for the grandmothers to be raising the children. Yes,
yes, And that's, a lot of it is due to the fact that the mothers are on drugs. The yes, and the broken families. We, um, as I said, living in an area of Washington, D C. We definitely see this, uh, Uh-huh. and, uh, it's that grandmother figure, not only raising her own children, but raising, um, children from the streets, too, frequently. Right. Well, we had a sociologist at the center where I work who was writing a book on, uh, multigeneration, um, matriarchies, in a way. uh, where the tradition in the family has been for a teenaged daughter to have a baby while she's still living at home with the mother Uh-huh. Uh-huh. and, Yes, well, this is a, this is a uh, this is in fact, uh, we've been studying this in our school, that, um, this is one of the symptoms, or not the symptoms, it's one of the ways that young girls feel that they are maturing, it's a rite of passage
Yeah. well, Myrna, how do you get your news, news? Uh, most of it is from the radio, uh, and also from the news programs that we watch in the afternoon. Uh-huh. Yeah. We usually watch the local news and the, the, uh, national news both. Uh-huh, yeah, I'm pretty much the same. I, uh, I find that, uh, I'm a graduate student and I, I read a lot for school and I find I have no patience to really read a newspaper because I just, I'm reading so much all the time. And I really enjoy just sitting down and watching a news broadcast. Well you can always get up and leave that Uh-huh, yeah, that's true. Uh, I I just don't seem to have time to sit down and read the paper. Either by the time I get home from work, it's already, you know, time for the news to come on.
Uh-huh. That's right, yeah. So, it's so much easier to sit there and besides, I can be doing other things and still listen to the news. Yeah, that's right, I, I agree. That's, a lot of times I eat while I'm uh, watching the news. Yeah. Yeah, the same thing. Is there any, uh, what did you think about the coverage like over in the, uh, Persian Gulf? I think they did a great job. Yeah, I thought so too, it was, it, you know, for a while when we were really interested, uh, we saw it all the time.
Some of the stations I guess carried it for twenty-four hours for a couple of days there and then, you know, the special reports and the extended news coverage I thought was really good. Uh-huh Yeah. And you could always find some channel that had something on but you didn't necessarily have to watch the same thing all the time. Yeah, right, yeah, just news, that's right, yeah. Yeah, I noticed that one thing that, that T I did, you know, they had, uh, uh, they used to have, well they do have television monitors stationed throughout our buildings, Uh-huh. and they used to have a program called T News, and just updates of, of different things that were going on within T I. Well when all the, the mess with, uh, uh, in the Persian Gulf came about they started carrying C N N. Oh, yeah. Well now, they have had so much good response from this, that T I now has C N N on all the time. Uh-huh.
Huh, well that's great. So, we can always run upstairs and, you know, get a quickie update on what's going on, if we really want to. Uh-huh. Yeah, or if you have a break in the middle of the day, you take a coffee break you can always stay informed. Yeah, yeah Yeah, that's really good. That's, um, I've found that when I, I don't have cable television anymore, uh, when I moved, went back to graduate school I just didn't have the money to buy, rent a cable T V line, or whatever, you know. So I don't get C N N, uh, which was a big disappointment. I used to watch, that was my, if I wasn't home, I'm a college teacher and sometimes I teach in the evening so I'll miss the evening news. And uh, you could always catch a good news program at eight o'clock or nine o'clock on C N N. I think that's, that really has changed the way, uh, I look at the news. Yes
Yeah, we don't get it either, we live out in the country, Uh-huh. and we just don't have it available out there where we are. But when we did have it, uh, we, that's what we usually watched, was C N N Uh-huh. and sometimes we'd watch the weather stations. Yeah, that's, uh, same, yeah, that's, when I had it, I, I watched it, you know, religiously for half an hour and then you could go on, you know, to do what else you wanted to do. Yeah. Yeah I find I, I read very little, I don't even get a regular newspaper and, uh, because, uh, I, I don't drive that much, I only live about a mile from where I go to school and work, I, uh, I find I spend so little time in the in the car that I don't really listen to the radio, you know,
I don't, so. So television is my main new source. Oh, I get that too, because I, I'm in a van pool, Uh-huh. and I'm in the van, you know, uh, two hours a day an. Oh really, to commute to work? Yes, yes. Oh. And in the, in the morning I try to sleep because it's, it's dark thirty. But in, but in the afternoon, uh, I try to read so I can, can, uh, not pay attention to what our driver is doing Yeah, I can, the van pools I know that, and I'm in the Baltimore, Washington area, and I know they do van pool a lot here from some of the outer areas, but if you want a nicer home, you know, beyond the suburbs, you know,
I, that's necessary. Yeah. Yeah. Are, are you in Baltimore itself? I am, I am right outside Baltimore. I am less than a mile from the Baltimore line. Um. And I go to a a campus of the University of Maryland that is just, less than a mile from my house. So I, I'm actually in Baltimore, yeah, you could say I'm in Baltimore. Yeah, I have two kids over there. Oh really, in Baltimore? well no, in, in D C area. Uh-huh. Yeah
one works for the State Department and, uh, uh, the other one is, uh, uh, her husband is in the Navy and he's stationed at Bethesda an. Uh-huh, oh that's, that's, that's a really nice area, Bethesda area. Uh-huh. Uh-huh, it's, um, it's funny, there's a big difference between Baltimore and Washington, even though they're so close. There's only an hour, less than that between the two but there is a big difference in things like property values and, um, the closer you get to D C the more expensive it is. Uh-huh. And, um, the, the, uh, different slant. Washington, it really is a, uh, uh, an international city, where Baltimore is hometown Baltimore. You know, it, there's really, uh, most people have relocated to the Washington area, you know. Oh no, I'd, I'd rather have Baltimore with the home town atmosphere.
Yeah, that's, I, I like it, I like it a little bit better, too. It's interesting though, um, to meet different populations. I, I'm just now being, uh, from Pittsburgh originally, I'm just now meeting different populations like Chinese students and things and I find that really interesting, you know, to imagine, here is somebody that was in China, two years ago when all that was going on in, in, uh, Beijing. You know, that, that's an interesting, uh, interesting perspective. But I, I really much, much like the hometown area, yeah. And I think that also goes, it's funny, you, you can watch different news. I can watch Washington news or Baltimore news and I really do watch Baltimore news. You know, that really makes, I don't really bother with the Washington station because I just, it's so far removed from what I'm interested in. Well most of what they're talking about in Washington is, is the crime problems that they're having there.
Uh-huh, yeah they, in fact they just, it was just a big thing recently they've had some terrible problems with Hispanics, um, they had to impose a curfew that, uh, in two of the areas in, uh, in the Washington suburbs. The mayor, they've gotten rid of that really bad mayor and then, uh, brought in, Uh-huh, I heard about that. Yeah, and then came a woman that's um, she's big in the Democratic party so that's good, so she has good national ties, but she also was, um, something like a, uh, state auditor or something like that before this position. She was a state auditor, I guess she was an auditor general or something like that for the District of Columbia, at Washington. And then she left that to get a position with the Democratic party and now she ran for mayor, so she's uh, fiscally she's pretty tight, and, uh, she's cleaning house
an, and it looks like hopefully she'll do a nice job, uh, for Washington, you know, which is, you sort of feel sorry for a lot of the people there. You know, from what I pick up on the news, uh, it's a difficult process, you know, to get rid of a, a bad mayor. Yeah, well I know both of my kids didn't want to live anywhere around the, the downtown areas, Right. they both moved way out. Uh-huh, yeah. I think one of them lives in Germantown and I can't remember where the other one lives. Yeah, but those are Germantown is a nice area. Uh-huh, yeah. It's a nice area It's, means they have to drive a little bit, but, Yeah, well they might be car pooling too.
Do they car pool in? Are they driven by themselves. Uh, well now, I, I think he carpools, Uh-huh. Because he's got fairly regular hours since he came back, but, uh, now my daughter they have probably been carpooling together, in fact, because she had been called back up, active duty. Uh-huh, yeah. And then she was supposed to have gotten out of active duty as of last Friday. So, I haven't talked to them this weekend, I don't know what the situation is, but she was, Uh-huh. They didn't call you for Mother's Day? We were gone You weren't home? Uh, no, we weren't home
but she had, she had called and left a message on our recorder but I had that from all my kids except for one. Yeah, oh, that's good. So. Well I guess we should stop now. Well I thank you for calling, I have enjoyed it. Uh-huh, oh good. I really do like this program because I get to talk to people from all over the United States, yeah. Uh, uh, so do I, I've become very aware of different political views because some of the things we have to discuss are very politically motivated or whatever, I, I really enjoyed it. It's, it's so funny when you live in one part of the country you only see that perspective. It's interesting to see the, the wider world, so I enjoy it. Hey, thanks a lot, and, and bye. Thank you,
bye, bye. Okay. Well, I do not know. How big a city is Rome? I mean, you have heard about Dallas, and the crime here is pretty bad Well, Rome is pretty small But, uh, Yeah. I was going to say. we hear a lot about, uh, New York City. Uh-huh. There is a lot of crime down there. And I am, I am afraid to go down there because, you know, I mean, you hear about people getting mugged. You leave your car for ten minutes and it is stripped when you come back. Yeah. Have you ever been there? No, I have not.
Only to the airport. That is, uh, probably enough to see Um, are you in college right now? No. I am, I work at, for the Air Force. Oh, okay. So, there is a base up here. And, Are base, that's interesting concept. Are bases safe, you know? Bases are pretty safe because they check your I D on your way in. And, Yeah. The, they, uh, minimize the access. Right. But even so we had a, uh, uh, at New Years, we had some people come in and, uh, like attack one of the planes. Because they were protesting, uh, the presence over in the Persian Gulf. Uh-huh. Oh, no.
Sure. Oh, great. That is wonderful. So, Yeah. Well, Dallas, uh, we lived in Minneapolis. Uh, we moved here about ten months ago. And Dallas is pretty, uh, well, we live in north north Dallas which is like a suburb, near a suburb called Plano. So we are out of the city, but it is, uh, it is bad everywhere in terms of, uh, you know, the handgun situation, um, the number of rapes, the number of muggings. Just, it is, it is, I would not say it is not as bad as New York, but it is pretty scary. Yeah. You know, people put bars on their windows in certain neighborhoods and, Yeah. you know. They call them ornamental grates.
But they are still bars That makes it bad for getting out during a fire. Yeah. It really does. And if you are a little bit claustrophobic but, uh. I do not know, I mean the jails are crowded. I, I, I am not a criminal justice specialist, so I do not know what, you know, what can be done. I am, you know, I do not, I do not know, it seems to, I think it is getting worse. Because I keep hearing things like I, when I was I went home, my parents live in Boston. Uh-huh. But I went home, and we were watching T V, Yeah. and this thing came on where these, a group of like five or six guys went and filmed themselves beating up people in the street and, and robbing them.
Oh. And it was really disgusting. And my mom was like, "They should just be all shot right now." And I mean, you Were they teenagers or? Uh, Like that girl in New York that got beat up by, you know, when she was jogging in Central Park, a couple of years ago? Yeah. Yeah. Um, They were not, I think they were early twenties. Yeah. They were young men. Yeah. But they, so they weren't, you know. And were they, uh, were they, were they obviously poor or you know? That is really Like I say, I know it.
How deprived could they be if they had a camcorder? Those are a thousand bucks. Yeah. Unless they stole it. And I mean, that is one big thing down here. I mean, they have like, uh, and they are not all young. I mean, they are eighteen to twenty-four, some of the young men and women. But, I mean, you can, you can see the Crime Stoppers ads on television. And they are, sometimes it is the same people that have been, that have been observed and they still can't catch them Yeah. And you are wondering how, you know. Um, we lived in Minneapolis and Wisconsin. I mean, there was all kind of, I, I, know, I, I, I know it is getting worse. I do not know what the world is or is not. Uh, the in a small town in Wisconsin, near Madison, um, a young boy somehow got a hold of a shotgun. And killed his parents and his three brothers and sisters. Uh-huh.
And the child had, and he, they said that he was twelve years old, and he had, uh, he had not, uh, displayed any tendencies deviant or disturbed or whatever, you know. Yeah. And you are thinking to yourself, um. I wonder where, I know. I do not know. I wonder where he gets it? You know, you must, I think T V is bad. Because they, uh, show all sorts of violence on, That and I do not think a lot of parents, I mean, I do not, I do not know how it is in the Air Force base. But, uh, I just do not think a lot of people, because of the economy, both need to work, you know. I just do not think a lot of parents are that involved any more. Yeah. They do not, they do not talk to their kids and take them out. And, and are not there all the time Uh,
so the kids are off to their own devices a lot. Right. And discipline. I do not know how your folks were, but I mean I sure knew as heck when I was growing up that, uh, my parents were the superior and I was the subordinate. And, you know. It was sort of like there were boundaries. Oh, definitely. And I do not think, I do not know, I think today a lot of parents, um, are ruled by their kids. I, I, I think so definitely. When you go to a restaurant, and like kids are running all over the place. They, Yeah. Right. I mean, they are not learning how to, uh, well, like boundaries. I mean, I do not, I see it in work place too, sometimes. I do not know how old you are, but you sound a little bit younger than me. But, I am in my thirties, and I, uh, I see, uh, even people that work with me that are ten years younger.
That, you know, they kind of have an attitude that I I hate to to say it, but it's, that's just what it is. It is an attitude like the world owes them something. Yep. But, they, Right, I, I see that too in the Air Force. Do you? Oh, yeah. A lot of, uh, especially since a lot of us are engineers where I work. Are you in the Air Force? I am in the Air Force. Yes. Okay. And so, uh, people outside the Air Force doing engineering get paid a lot more than we do. Sure. And so all the young engineers are like, well, I am just, going, you know, Huh. get it for all it is worth.
And that, you know, Right. and I am like, you are the one who signed up. If you did not want to do it. And, Right, right. And the Air Force is one of the bitter, better military, supposedly military experiences. Yep, it is. I mean, I like it a lot Pardon me? I like it so far. I mean, that is, are you going to be a career person? I'm digressing, but, I do not talk to many people in the military. Oh. So I am,
Probably not. But, uh, they pay for my college. So, That is the way to do it. I mean, and that's, you know, at least the Air Force is, I do not know, I just, uh, I am nervous in Dallas. I mean, I, you know, I mean, I go to like an aerobics class or something. And, I, you know, uh, seventy women in a Jazzercise class in a public, uh, parks and rec building. And you are supposed to feel safe, but then there are all these, it does not matter race, but, you know, it is an inter racial mix. And you see these guys standing there watching you jump around in your leotards. Yeah. And I do not even think that way, but I mean, you just think to yourself, you, you just, I mean, nobody can think that, that it can't happen to them. It, No matter who they are
or where they are at, you know. Yeah. And you never know who is watching, either. I mean, did you, I do not know, I was in the grocery store this morning. We, uh, went to New Orleans for four days and came back late last night, driving. And it is about seven hours. Huh-uh. Um, and that is a very, we had never been there. That is a very, very neat town to visit. Uh, in terms of the French Quarter and all of the things you hear about. Uh-huh. Right. But the crime is so bad there. I mean, in all the tourist brochures you read about what you should or should not do. How to carry your wallet, uh. Uh-huh. This is New Orleans? New Orleans, yeah.
Oh, I would hate to be there during Mardi Gras. Let me tell, I would never, yeah. You just do not. Do not even bother. It is not worth it. Uh, the, when we came back, I do not know if you have seen. I was in the super market this morning and on the cover of TIME magazine, there is a girl, she is in Boston? She is on the east coast somewhere. Real attractive young girl. College freshman, I, college coed. I think she is a freshman. She had been dating a fellow for several weeks. Uh-huh. They went back to her dorm room Uh-huh. and date rape. I mean, and it just,
she looked anguished. I mean, it was really just sad. I mean, did not pick it up and read it, but I should have. But I just looked at the picture and thought, what a world. I know I mean, I do not, yeah, You can't trust anybody. I do not have any, uh, cure, It is, it is really scary. No, you really can't. I mean, I, they, we lease out a really nice two story town home in north Dallas. And they have a real big thing here. People, I mean, even dry cleaners knock on the door and are soliciting, you know. They, everybody wants your business kind of thing. Right. And my husband is the kind of guy, he's, he's sometime, he was raised on a farm in southern Ohio, near Dayton.
And I think sometimes it is just, he and I are very different in terms of that. I, I mean, I basically have started not to trust anybody in general street smarts. Right. We, And, uh, he opened the door. I came downstairs and I was real upset and I probably got more nasty than I should have. But I just said, Howard, Uh-huh. you know, oh, my God. I would not, I mean, Well, you, you, hear about people opening the door and getting blown away. Oh, yeah. And it does, I mean, it is, it is not a reason. I mean, I have been to New York. You should not deny yourself going to visit and all that. Uh-huh. Uh, but it is not any worse.
I used to work for a mortgage company that was owned by, uh, are you from Boston? Yeah. Home Owners Savings and Loan in Boston. Uh-huh. And I know I never felt, I mean, I have been to downtown New York City and I have been to downtown Boston. And I never felt any safer on Milk Street in Boston, staying at the Meridian, I did not pay for. But, I mean, I never felt any safer there than I did in any other city I have been in, you know. Right. Right. So I would say one thing. Do not deny yourself the New York experience, but go with people that you know. Yeah. I would not want to go by myself. No, uh. But I mean, it, yeah, I do not know. I mean, I, I guess I could go on and on about what to do about criminals. Uh,
I think the handgun, I am not real big on guns myself. Uh-huh. So, I think our justice system needs to be stricter. I mean, because everyone, they do it I mean, Are the New York, uh, are the New York, I do not know how the New York state prison system is but, Are they booked up? Yeah. That is a way to put it, they are booked up. Are they paroling, uh, like murderers and, I mean, here it is just a real big deal. They parole people that have killed police officers and then they are out doing it again. Right, um, I do not, I do not know. Because I am not real up on a lot of news things. Uh-huh. But, you know, you just hear about that, that, you know,
Uh-huh. it is a lot of repeat crime. And you are like, why are they repeating? They should have been in there longer. Or, I know. And then you think, I mean, I I mean, I can remember, I have not been out of school that long, but it has been at least ten years. And you think to yourself, was it that bad back then? Or is it just, I think that, like you said, television? Is it just that more people think there is like excitement in it, you know? I mean, people that may have been close to the edge just go over because they see something or read something. It seems like a lot of, that it is more, like in Boston, there was a case of, uh, a couple of kids, fifteen year olds. They wanted to see what it was like to kill someone. Uh-huh. So they, they picked on this kid who was like new in town. Uh-huh.
And they were like, well, no one was going to miss him anyway, you know, and it like, Oh, god. ugh, that is horrible. How can you even think like that? it is, yeah, isn't it something? I mean, I, I have a, I am originally from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and I have a niece and nephew. And I just, uh, I mean my ten year old nephew says things that he is aware of that I am just going, Michael, how did you hear about that? You know, it is just, I think kids get too much too fast. And all those sort of things. Yeah. Yeah. In Atlanta, where my inlaws live, uh, they had that thing, you know, the high top sneakers, the Air Jordans, et cetera. Right. Right. Kids killing each other and beating their brains out. Oh, for the sneakers. Right. Or the, or the jackets, the team like the Raiders and the caps.
Yeah. Yeah. You know, stealing the hundred dollar jackets. Uh, I mean, it is I guess, it goes from the most petty like that to like what you were saying that they, in Boston. That is crime where they videoed. That is probably one of the most bizarre I have heard of. Yeah. Where they videotape themselves. Yeah. It seems like crime is turning into a pastime instead of like, you know, be ... Um, what do you think the major cause of air pollution or at least in the Boston areas, Well, the, the, the major cause it seems up here is I live right on the ocean so it's kind of hard for me to tell what would happen if I lived in some of the valleys inland, Uh-huh. but the major cause here, and we always seem to, and it seems to be validated by the press, is the car pollution. We don't have too much industrial pollution. Yeah, yeah. Uh, car pollution seems to be the one and only thing that, that I can really put my finger on here.
Um, that isn't the same in the Washington area because we don't have any major, um, industry except for, uh, government and services. And the, the transportation situation is such that, uh, all the car pollution is, is absolutely awful. Um, also the worth of the hub of three airports in this general area there is, uh, National, Dulles, and then, uh, Baltimore, Washington. And it, interestingly some of the information I've been reading indicates that the amount of air pollution from, uh, uh, airplanes is extraordinary. Is that so? Yeah, I didn't know that. and that's always something that, you know, you just don't real, you don't think about. Well, most people talk about the noise pollution from airplanes rather than the air pollution. But the, uh, apparently the air pollution and the fact that it's delivered right up in high altitudes is a very significant factor. Yeah. I would think so. You know, uh, I guess it talked about all types of pollution. I happen to just read something the other day at least in the Boston paper there were three things that, that come to note. One, is that the carbon fluorides that are, uh, being released into the atmosphere are causing even a larger hole in the southern hemisphere in the ozone layer and again and now they've located another one or rather an expanding one in the northern hemisphere.
So so I'm quite concerned. I don't think it's involved any longer with, with, uh, hair sprays or those Yeah. Yeah. No, I think it's now, is what, uh, from what I understand it's air conditioning units and, and, we certainly turned into an air conditioned society. Uh-huh. Yeah, I know in Florida there's no place you go that isn't air conditioned, and I do quite a bit of business in Washington. And, I mean you know what it's like here. Oh, yeah, it's quite, is, is the it's really out of the norm not to find something that isn't air conditioned. And, Yeah,
yeah, yeah. and I guess refrigerators, are the same way. We just had the, They release that. That's right. So, solutions to this, would be Yeah. I, I, Well, you know, improved. Well, I guess the the, to me the first thing is I wish society would get as upset about this as you do get, getting people upset about animal rights. Yeah. I mean this is so, so basic. It's human rights in the sense, but, uh, in terms of demanding, it's just not caused but demanding that, uh, we can spend so much money on certain things but that research really be directed toward, um, improvement of polluting vehicles, and not just cars but also buses, um, planes. That something can be done. I I can't imagine that well , Well, I, I if we can't send people to the moon, that we can't improve these things. Yeah.
No, I think that it can be done simply because, uh, uh, we've, we've, every car now in America that's been produced for the past fifteen years has what they call a catalytic converter. Converter, yeah, uh-huh. And no lead gas was, came to the pumps. And, and that's been done. There's the lead pollution has, that problem, essentially I guess because it was at crisis proportions was, was licked. Uh-huh. And I think that there are there are solutions, And that for buses, certainly we don't even need a, need a research anymore. It's just a matter of passing the law, and passing the law depends on how heavy the car industry, the automobile lobby is. That's right. Well, and also to make it economically feasible. Uh, and also in buses. That's right. That's right. I don't know if you ever got caught in a traffic jam behind a bus,
Oh, yeah, well, That, you know, That, that, the, the smell is awful and but, you know, I was reading the other day not to go on with this but that, diesel fumes actually have less pollutants in them than gasoline fumes. Uh-huh. Yeah. Uh-huh, uh-huh. So, I guess you're better off sitting behind a bus than a car although I can never, I could never, uh, really rationalize that while I was sitting there Yeah, but even, of course, in the longer term just to get away from fossil fuels. Yeah. I mean, I'm, I'm thinking of research in that direction rather than we, we've taken the intermediate step but I don't think, fossil fuels are the answer. Well, we, you know up here in New England, uh, where I've, right close to where I live is the Seabrook Nucleus site which is, practically a, you know, guerilla war up here, went on for years. Uh-huh. Yes
I Uh, my daughters marched in the, uh, uh, against the Seabrook and I kind of, uh, my feelings were that we needed this bridge to, to, uh, to jump from whatever it was going to be, from fossil fuel to whatever it was going to be. Yeah. Yeah, you don't throw the baby out with the bath water, and condemning nuclear use. Yeah. unfortunately though I think the oil companies have lied to us for years Yeah, yeah. So we really don't know whether there's enough fossil fuel left or there isn't, and, uh, and, uh, But with the pollution issue, uh, fossil fuel is not the way to go anyway. No. Uh, so you've, to you've got to look elsewhere. Yeah. So, uh, but it is something that's a little frightening and in fact, well, I,
within our family we have said, my husband, I have two sons, uh, well, one is already in college in New England, Yeah. and the other will be going in September, and we just feel that when we leave, uh, this area, we're going north, not south. Yes. Uh, I like the mentality north, and I also like the fresher air up there. That's right. So, I mean that's the way we will be going. Yeah. But, um, so, I, I'd be interested in having spoken with somebody also from the far west on this issue to see how they, their attitudes are. Well, since, since Texas and Louisiana and, uh, California that, in that ranking order, the worst pollutants in America. Uh-huh. I mean, I read that the other day. I mean Louisiana for a small state it was amazing but it's the industrial pollution I should imagine. Uh-huh.